I don’t understand the Mesmer community’s reaction to the vigor nerf? Didn’t they already do the same thing to engineers, Eles, and Guards?
Also, how does the new clone mechanic work? If you have 3 phantasms out, will you be barred from producing more clones? Or will the clones still replace the oldest phantasm?
Those threads are a jumbled mess of everyone saying, “No, you’re wrong, THIS how it will work!”
And I still don’t understand why we think we should be the only ones with a super powerful 5 point trait they’ve already fixed across the board.
And I still don’t understand why we think we should be the only ones with a super powerful 5 point trait they’ve already fixed across the board.
Have they? I don’t know all the other classes entirely. But there’s supposed to be pros and cons for different professions. We are, to my knowledge, also the only class that has no non-annoying option for permanent run speed boost, so is that also getting harmonized? I doubt it.
I also don’t understand, and I’ve played only mesmer since the release.
Devs decided to nerf all vigor sources, cause they want fights to be less dodge-depending. As you say, other professions have had their vigor nerf. It was a matter of time for us to receive the nerf.
This change won’t affect as much as people is whining. I think it will happen the something similar as Illusionists Celerity. A lot of complaints and whines before the change, but even now that they have made it Master, how many build do you see nowadays with x/x/x/x/15?
The impact of the change hasn’t been as big as it was expected. Same will happen with Critical Infusion. We will experience with having a little bit less active defense, but maybe this will help to use better our dodges. We’re used to spam them.
PD: We will have to wait till Tuesday (3 days from now) to see how DE has been changed. Not a lot of info have been given… Also, we only know a tiny bit of the whole balance, there can be good buffs hidden.
It wouldnt have been half as bad if they had said “Hey we nerfed vigor… BUT we fixed illusionary leap!” or “Yeah we had to nerf vigor… BUT you now got some new blast finishers!” or maybe even “We fixed the reliability of illusions walking to target on popping them but we nerfed vigor regen, sorry”.
Because that’s what people want. Fixes. Otherwise you only focus on the negative things.
I think that the nerf is deserved due to the precedent set by other vigor nerfs; it only makes sense to nerf Mesmer’s vigor as well. The same goes for Guardian.
Let’s be objective here guys- the nerf was deserved.
I think that the nerf is deserved due to the precedent set by other vigor nerfs; it only makes sense to nerf Mesmer’s vigor as well. The same goes for Guardian.
Let’s be objective here guys- the nerf was deserved.
Yeaaah right. Because objectively, squishy mesmers with light armor and dolyaky regenerating heavy armor guardians rely on dodges to survive in exactly the same way.
I think that the nerf is deserved due to the precedent set by other vigor nerfs; it only makes sense to nerf Mesmer’s vigor as well. The same goes for Guardian.
Let’s be objective here guys- the nerf was deserved.
Yeaaah right. Because objectively, squishy mesmers with light armor and dolyaky regenerating heavy armor guardians rely on dodges to survive in exactly the same way.
and Guardians don’t get stealth. The nerf is fine, and warranted.
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and Guardians don’t get stealth. The nerf is fine, and warranted.
And stealth is really helpful versus Mai Trin’s bazookas, dredge weaponry testing and molten bosses’ AOEs and shock waves. Nerfing vigor is another step to make player’s skills less important than player’s stats.
And I still don’t understand why we think we should be the only ones with a super powerful 5 point trait they’ve already fixed across the board.
Not only that, I faintly remember that in the first pass of those notes it was mentioned that ours will get nerfed too. Later it was cut, probably due to some bug. So this is merely the same nerf being applied to us as to everyone else. And honestly, could see it coming from a mile away.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I think that the nerf is deserved due to the precedent set by other vigor nerfs; it only makes sense to nerf Mesmer’s vigor as well. The same goes for Guardian.
Let’s be objective here guys- the nerf was deserved.
Yeaaah right. Because objectively, squishy mesmers with light armor and dolyaky regenerating heavy armor guardians rely on dodges to survive in exactly the same way.
Mesmers also have 5k more health, defensive mechanisms related to clones, and a variety of other utilities to pull from that guards don’t have. Guards are too much of a “linear” class; they don’t have a large pool of resources (their only class mechanic, honestly, is virtues) to pull from, and of that pool that they do have, there isn’t much they can do with it. On the other hand, mesmers can participate in very effective active defense through various skills, traits, and builds using their clones. The most obvious example of this would be Illusionary Defense, where you keep up three clones as often as possible so that you can reduce the damage done to you by 9%.
I was just curious because I see people that keep making sweeping statements about how the DE nerf coupled with the vigor need will ruin the shatter builds beyond all repair. The vigor need is justified, and if DE will work the way I think it will, it won’t have much of an impact on shatter mesmers. DE will hurt PU mesmerism the most, because they rely on clone deaths from creating more clones.
On the other hand, mesmers can participate in very effective active defense through various skills, traits, and builds using their clones.
Fixed: Mesmers have to participate in very effective active defense through various skills, traits, and builds using their clones.
Evasion and deception are the core part of the class (just like stated in this thread), and removing it from mesmers is similar to removing regeneration from guardians (which will get better scaling with healing power instead). (Normal) mesmers are not supposed to facetank enemies, they’re supposed to click a lot of buttons to constantly move around while holding the enemy in a circle of distracting illusions.
Illusionary defense has to be traited – it’s 10 points in Chaos which need to be removed from other lines, such as Domination, and you really have to have all 3 illusions up and not killed already. Illusionary Defender and Blink take up utility slots. All in all, it’s a piano play which deals so little damage that in doesn’t make sense. I started playing a tough staff condi mesmer, but after yet another fail with graveling burrows, I switched my traits (and exotic armor and trinkets) to pure power and GS to finally see a sense in this class in PvE. However it seems that developers are more interested in PvP, and as it looks too OP there, they just nerf it everywhere.
I think that the nerf is deserved due to the precedent set by other vigor nerfs; it only makes sense to nerf Mesmer’s vigor as well. The same goes for Guardian.
Let’s be objective here guys- the nerf was deserved.
Yeaaah right. Because objectively, squishy mesmers with light armor and dolyaky regenerating heavy armor guardians rely on dodges to survive in exactly the same way.
Must have missed that guardians can spend 20% of the time completely invulnerable (hi @ blurred frenzy).
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
Because dodge-clones, not just evasion. We want to pump out more clones for our core mechanic —- shattering.
Then clone generation needs a buff, especially in light of some builds discouraging shatter use. That might actually need more of a rework than a buff. DE is at best a bandaid in it’s current form, at worst it’s a crutch. We’re getting nowhere if we rely on wasting endurance for our class mechanic.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
“The most obvious example of this would be Illusionary Defense, where you keep up three clones as often as possible so that you can reduce the damage done to you by 9%.”
Would you believe me if i told you the vigor nerf makes it harder to keep up those 3 clones aswell?
You basically pointed out why the vigor nerf affects mesmers more than ANY class. Not only do we HAVE to dodge incoming burst because of berserkers in spvp, but dodging is also our #1 method of clone generation, which nerfs our survivability, damage and control though shatters.
+1 for dueling in the mists.
+1 for 3v3 or 2v2 deathmatch
I wouldn’t mind this nerf so much if it were combined with:
1. Some sort of buff in another area to compensate. Like, maybe, making mantras suck less.
2. Some of the desperately needed fixes to bugs that hamper mesmers.
3. Reasonable matching nerfs of similarly powerful abilities on other classes that are also things other classes don’t get. You know, like maybe the class that combines the highest armor, highest health pool and best healing skill with high offense, high mobility and a low skill floor.
I was also rubbed the wrong way by the whole tone of that presentation. It didn’t strike me as something carefully analyzed and thought out, but rather just “we don’t like it when mesmers can do X, so we nerfed it”. It could be that the analysis did happen behind the scenes, but it didn’t come across that way.
No, but you don’t understand, they did nerf warriors’ healsig a whole entire 8 percent. How will they ever manage? Won’t you think of the warriors? Those poor, poor warriors. Eight percent. It’s unconscionable.
