Guild Wars 2

To me, the nerf looked to be a response for the tank mesmer in pvp and the group wide invuln for spirit vale that allowed it to be completed with less than 10 players. I believe at the time of the nerf, only 1 raid wing was released but I could be wrong here.

In PVP, I think their initial change to the well, giving distortion and prevent point capture was enough. They ended up nerfing shield 4 block duration anyway and removing durability runes, soldier’s amulet so mesmer tank is dead anyway.

But today, we’ve seen spirit vale 3-manned, 5-manned gorseval without well of precog.

So if it went back to giving blur/distortion, I don’t see it making any difference in the raid scene. They recently nerfed the upkeep for group wide quickness, pretty much forcing 2 mesmers, so I don’t see any room for it in the rotation anyway.

But outside the raid, it’d be nice to have group wide invuln without having to trait into inspirations. It could be handy when pugging dungeons/fractals as just something to switch to if your group has trouble surviving boss attacks or stacking.

Will it be useful again?

No….?

Highly unlikely in the near future anyway. Anet doesn’t like to admit balancing mistakes until they’ve sat for at least a year and a half, so I’d look for it being made a bit better towards the end of 2018.

I do use it when pugging fractals as it comes in handy for clutch rezzing.

But otherwise it’s mediocre.

Curunen.8729:

I do use it when pugging fractals as it comes in handy for clutch rezzing.

But otherwise it’s mediocre.

Yup. Its really useful in fractals and dungeons with pugs because it makes rezzing much easier, and in dungeon pugs it helps to be able to throw it down before a big attack if distortion is on CD. But it would be nice if it was buffed a bit, the nerf was very heavy handed imo

I think it’d be ok if they make Calamity deal more damage (tick damage → same tick damage as the other wells, end damage increased by ~40%), and then swap the CDs of Precognition and Calamity.

the only 2 things Anet did wrong about that skill are releasing it in its original state and not hotfixing it immediately after players figured out how to batkitten broken it is and started to abuse it

It has its uses on a block evade build for PvE openworld. The dmg isnt the vest but ok and the aegis every second gives you time to breath and some benefits if traited right.

InsaneQR.7412:

It has its uses on a block evade build for PvE openworld. The dmg isnt the vest but ok and the aegis every second gives you time to breath and some benefits if traited right.

The thing is, anything works in PvE open world.

Lexander.4579:

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

So a 3 second evade on a 30s cooldown is as good as 3 utility skills and an elite? What about an evade, stun and frontal aoe with one button press and no cooldown?

Lexander.4579:

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

Ah, it must be that time of year again when the thieves come to the mesmer forum and complain to cover up their own inadequacies.

But Fay! If half of my skills are brokenly weak and abandoned, then it’s only fair that half of yours should be, too!

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

Tell me exactly what combination of 3 utility skills and an elite, from any class, contain the same amount of usefulness as WoP and no more. I’ll even make it easy, the utility skills can come from a different class than the elite skill can, so you can find the most useless elite combined with the class with the most useless utilities.

Lexander.4579:

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

Ah, it must be that time of year again when the thieves come to the mesmer forum and complain to cover up their own inadequacies.

But Fay! If half of my skills are brokenly weak and abandoned, then it’s only fair that half of yours should be, too!

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

lol

Lexander.4579:

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

Ah, it must be that time of year again when the thieves come to the mesmer forum and complain to cover up their own inadequacies.

But Fay! If half of my skills are brokenly weak and abandoned, then it’s only fair that half of yours should be, too!

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

It’s sorta adorable

DeathReign.7821:

InsaneQR.7412:

It has its uses on a block evade build for PvE openworld. The dmg isnt the vest but ok and the aegis every second gives you time to breath and some benefits if traited right.

The thing is, anything works in PvE open world.

Lexander.4579:

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

So a 3 second evade on a 30s cooldown is as good as 3 utility skills and an elite? What about an evade, stun and frontal aoe with one button press and no cooldown?

Try using guardian SW in openworld if you say so. XD
I mean in the Maguuma Areas it gives you more survability even with glassy builds.

Plus it’d be easy to make bosses not be cheese-able with it. Not like you cannot simply have a cooldown on a per-player basis, getting affected by Well of Precognition leaves a 20s debuff on you which makes you unable to be affected by the ticks of it again (the endurance gain still works, as does Alacrity if traited).

Tuhdaaah, raid cheese disabled, but you can use it to dodge massive AEs if they’re not specifically said to be undodgeable (many are).

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

Ah, it must be that time of year again when the thieves come to the mesmer forum and complain to cover up their own inadequacies.

But Fay! If half of my skills are brokenly weak and abandoned, then it’s only fair that half of yours should be, too!

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

Tell me exactly what combination of 3 utility skills and an elite, from any class, contain the same amount of usefulness as WoP and no more. I’ll even make it easy, the utility skills can come from a different class than the elite skill can, so you can find the most useless elite combined with the class with the most useless utilities.

making 5 people invulnerable, stable, refilling their endurance and granting them broken pre-nerf alacrity on a joke cooldown?

sorry bruh im afraid i sort of was mistaken there, you cant quite compare any other utility/elite skill in that game to this abomination

Lexander.4579:

making 5 people invulnerable, stable, refilling their endurance and granting them broken pre-nerf alacrity on a joke cooldown?

Man someone is salty…

Anyhow, evasion != invulnerability, stability is self-only last I checked and a mechanical necessity of AE skills which are stunbreakers, you don’t “refill their endurance”, unless they recently increased the amount by ~230% and oh no, those extra 0,6s off the CDs must have completely floored you in PvP I bet.

Really, the issues were in PvE cheesing with the evasion. But the way it is now, the skill just feels pointless. Aegis isn’t a strong effect at all, and the skill has a fairly long CD for how little it does now.

Yes, yes, there’s even more useless skills in the game. I know. Doesn’t mean this one isn’t in need of a change, or that the previous one needed the evasion part removed (instead of being ignored by special boss effects).

Lexander.4579:

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

Ah, it must be that time of year again when the thieves come to the mesmer forum and complain to cover up their own inadequacies.

But Fay! If half of my skills are brokenly weak and abandoned, then it’s only fair that half of yours should be, too!

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

Tell me exactly what combination of 3 utility skills and an elite, from any class, contain the same amount of usefulness as WoP and no more. I’ll even make it easy, the utility skills can come from a different class than the elite skill can, so you can find the most useless elite combined with the class with the most useless utilities.

making 5 people invulnerable, stable, refilling their endurance and granting them broken pre-nerf alacrity on a joke cooldown?

sorry bruh im afraid i sort of was mistaken there, you cant quite compare any other utility/elite skill in that game to this abomination

It never made you invulnerable, and it granted 2 seconds of alacrity to everyone, and only if they were in the well when it ended. Hardly game breaking. There are much more useful skills in the game.

Not to mention, you still said it was better than 3 utility skills and an elite all together. Find me that combination. Do it.

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

Ah, it must be that time of year again when the thieves come to the mesmer forum and complain to cover up their own inadequacies.

But Fay! If half of my skills are brokenly weak and abandoned, then it’s only fair that half of yours should be, too!

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

Tell me exactly what combination of 3 utility skills and an elite, from any class, contain the same amount of usefulness as WoP and no more. I’ll even make it easy, the utility skills can come from a different class than the elite skill can, so you can find the most useless elite combined with the class with the most useless utilities.

making 5 people invulnerable, stable, refilling their endurance and granting them broken pre-nerf alacrity on a joke cooldown?

sorry bruh im afraid i sort of was mistaken there, you cant quite compare any other utility/elite skill in that game to this abomination

It never made you invulnerable, and it granted 2 seconds of alacrity to everyone, and only if they were in the well when it ended. Hardly game breaking. There are much more useful skills in the game.

Not to mention, you still said it was better than 3 utility skills and an elite all together. Find me that combination. Do it.

that was easy

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Shadows
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Caltrops
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distracting_Daggers
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm

The raid “cheese” does still work with Distortion from signets like always. However they managed to successfully remove any Distortion “exploits” in W3, so reverting Precog is no issue PvE wise.

But as we all know, reverting stuff is a sign of weakness, so never revert anything! /s

Lexander.4579:

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

Ah, it must be that time of year again when the thieves come to the mesmer forum and complain to cover up their own inadequacies.

But Fay! If half of my skills are brokenly weak and abandoned, then it’s only fair that half of yours should be, too!

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

Tell me exactly what combination of 3 utility skills and an elite, from any class, contain the same amount of usefulness as WoP and no more. I’ll even make it easy, the utility skills can come from a different class than the elite skill can, so you can find the most useless elite combined with the class with the most useless utilities.

making 5 people invulnerable, stable, refilling their endurance and granting them broken pre-nerf alacrity on a joke cooldown?

sorry bruh im afraid i sort of was mistaken there, you cant quite compare any other utility/elite skill in that game to this abomination

It never made you invulnerable, and it granted 2 seconds of alacrity to everyone, and only if they were in the well when it ended. Hardly game breaking. There are much more useful skills in the game.

Not to mention, you still said it was better than 3 utility skills and an elite all together. Find me that combination. Do it.

that was easy

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Shadows
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Caltrops
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distracting_Daggers
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm

….. I can’t believe this. You have to be a troll.

Signet of shadows gives you 25% movement speed and a 5 sec blind that you can use while disabled on short cooldown. The blind from that signet allows you to force opponents to miss attacks, which means if you time it right you can force them to miss their big attack.

Caltrops. Seriously? A trap that can bleed and cripple foes while cleansing a condition from you, without revealing you. You think that is worse than what WoP gives? This skill isn’t even defense oriented, so direct comparisons are hard, but it offers just as much utility as WoP used to, and more than the well currently does.

Distracting Daggers. 3 interrupts. 3! On a short cooldown no less. This skill also gives you endurance back when traited, and also deals large damage to enemies when they are interrupted (and FYI that damage is more than the damage from Chronos WoC, much higher even if you only land 1 of those interrupts out of 3).

Dagger storm bleeds and cripples enemies, multiple times if they are within range, as well as providing stability to yourself on top of being a whirl finisher. Just from your weapon skills, a thief can drop a poison and a smoke field, allowing for either an additional area blind (on top of SoS) or area poison to enemies.

You honestly believe that these skills grant less utility than WoP does, or even less than it did pre nerf? There is no way you aren’t a troll.

The skills you listed give you stability, give you huge access to blindness and interrupt. Those interrupts can deal high damage 3 times, each hit being more than our main damage utility skill as a chrono, and you get 3 of those interrupts on the same cooldown as WoC when traited. Those skills grant you movement speed, the ability to damage and slow down enemies (via cripple) without revealing yourself, stability, massive burst damage on top of interrupts, and lots of access to blind. You cannot honestly claim that this is less utility than what WoP ever gave.

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

OriOri.8724:

Lexander.4579:

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

Ah, it must be that time of year again when the thieves come to the mesmer forum and complain to cover up their own inadequacies.

But Fay! If half of my skills are brokenly weak and abandoned, then it’s only fair that half of yours should be, too!

yeah its totes okay when one utility skill is about as good as all 3 utility skills + elite combined

Tell me exactly what combination of 3 utility skills and an elite, from any class, contain the same amount of usefulness as WoP and no more. I’ll even make it easy, the utility skills can come from a different class than the elite skill can, so you can find the most useless elite combined with the class with the most useless utilities.

making 5 people invulnerable, stable, refilling their endurance and granting them broken pre-nerf alacrity on a joke cooldown?

sorry bruh im afraid i sort of was mistaken there, you cant quite compare any other utility/elite skill in that game to this abomination

It never made you invulnerable, and it granted 2 seconds of alacrity to everyone, and only if they were in the well when it ended. Hardly game breaking. There are much more useful skills in the game.

Not to mention, you still said it was better than 3 utility skills and an elite all together. Find me that combination. Do it.

that was easy

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Shadows
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Caltrops
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distracting_Daggers
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm

….. I can’t believe this. You have to be a troll.

Signet of shadows gives you 25% movement speed and a 5 sec blind that you can use while disabled on short cooldown. The blind from that signet allows you to force opponents to miss attacks, which means if you time it right you can force them to miss their big attack.

Caltrops. Seriously? A trap that can bleed and cripple foes while cleansing a condition from you, without revealing you. You think that is worse than what WoP gives? This skill isn’t even defense oriented, so direct comparisons are hard, but it offers just as much utility as WoP used to, and more than the well currently does.

Distracting Daggers. 3 interrupts. 3! On a short cooldown no less. This skill also gives you endurance back when traited, and also deals large damage to enemies when they are interrupted (and FYI that damage is more than the damage from Chronos WoC, much higher even if you only land 1 of those interrupts out of 3).

Dagger storm bleeds and cripples enemies, multiple times if they are within range, as well as providing stability to yourself on top of being a whirl finisher. Just from your weapon skills, a thief can drop a poison and a smoke field, allowing for either an additional area blind (on top of SoS) or area poison to enemies.

You honestly believe that these skills grant less utility than WoP does, or even less than it did pre nerf? There is no way you aren’t a troll.

The skills you listed give you stability, give you huge access to blindness and interrupt. Those interrupts can deal high damage 3 times, each hit being more than our main damage utility skill as a chrono, and you get 3 of those interrupts on the same cooldown as WoC when traited. Those skills grant you movement speed, the ability to damage and slow down enemies (via cripple) without revealing yourself, stability, massive burst damage on top of interrupts, and lots of access to blind. You cannot honestly claim that this is less utility than what WoP ever gave.

you’ve opened my eyes amigo, brb playing thief with that build

What if they just get all targets in the well just block instead of aegis? It could be countered by unblockable attacks and gives 5s of air in pve.

I still don’t see the problem with just making you evade inside and then giving the targets a per-player CD so it cannot be chained on the same target.

That’s hardly a new or novel concept for MMOs either and it works™.

InsaneQR.7412:

What if they just get all targets in the well just block instead of aegis? It could be countered by unblockable attacks and gives 5s of air in pve.

Probably most realistic suggestion here. Love the idea.

Xyonon.3987:

InsaneQR.7412:

What if they just get all targets in the well just block instead of aegis? It could be countered by unblockable attacks and gives 5s of air in pve.

Probably most realistic suggestion here. Love the idea.

That just seems like another, unnecesary, nerf to WoP though

OriOri.8724:

Xyonon.3987:

InsaneQR.7412:

What if they just get all targets in the well just block instead of aegis? It could be countered by unblockable attacks and gives 5s of air in pve.

Probably most realistic suggestion here. Love the idea.

That just seems like another, unnecesary, nerf to WoP though

?

Fay.2357:

OriOri.8724:

Xyonon.3987:

InsaneQR.7412:

What if they just get all targets in the well just block instead of aegis? It could be countered by unblockable attacks and gives 5s of air in pve.

Probably most realistic suggestion here. Love the idea.

That just seems like another, unnecesary, nerf to WoP though

?

Switching from aegis to blocks means that it would no longer block unblockable attacks. I don’t see a reason to nerf it like that

OriOri.8724:

Fay.2357:

OriOri.8724:

Xyonon.3987:

InsaneQR.7412:

What if they just get all targets in the well just block instead of aegis? It could be countered by unblockable attacks and gives 5s of air in pve.

Probably most realistic suggestion here. Love the idea.

That just seems like another, unnecesary, nerf to WoP though

?

Switching from aegis to blocks means that it would no longer block unblockable attacks. I don’t see a reason to nerf it like that

Hate to break it to you, but aegis is simply the one-off boon form of block.

Considering how many other factors changed since then (e.g. Quickness no longer affecting rezzing, Shield having shorter block frames and Alacrity being nerfed) I’d really like to see Blurr or Distortion return.

If ANet feels that it’s still too strong, just increase the CD. Aegis just doesn’t make sense.

To me it feels like they’re trying to make the current elite spec’s look more and more unappealing so people will be more interested in buying the new expansion. So i’m not expecting any changes to WoP until a few months after the new expac is released, if at all.

Interesting though, if the leaks are true and the new elite will be centered around blurring you and allies, maybe they felt like WoP was to much in “its territory”?

Or move Gravity Well off the elite, return evade to WoP, and move that onto the elite?

WoP will never regain evade or iframes as doing so will defeat the point of the nerf.

WoP was nuked the way it was because the old form allowed guaranteed rezzes because it protected both the rezzer and the downed player. This was ungodly strong in sPvP, and was arguably overpowered in other non-solo content.

In all likelihood WoP will end up sharing shelf space with engi turrets. -A design mistake that Anet cannot remove, so it is instead is left to rot.

Crinn.7864:

WoP will never regain evade or iframes as doing so will defeat the point of the nerf.

WoP was nuked the way it was because the old form allowed guaranteed rezzes because it protected both the rezzer and the downed player. This was ungodly strong in sPvP, and was arguably overpowered in other non-solo content.

In all likelihood WoP will end up sharing shelf space with engi turrets. -A design mistake that Anet cannot remove, so it is instead is left to rot.

You know, because its not like other elite specs have almost guaranteed rezzes either. I don’t think it was overpowered in this regard considering the rezzing ability of scrappers and druids.

OriOri.8724:

Crinn.7864:

WoP will never regain evade or iframes as doing so will defeat the point of the nerf.

WoP was nuked the way it was because the old form allowed guaranteed rezzes because it protected both the rezzer and the downed player. This was ungodly strong in sPvP, and was arguably overpowered in other non-solo content.

In all likelihood WoP will end up sharing shelf space with engi turrets. -A design mistake that Anet cannot remove, so it is instead is left to rot.

You know, because its not like other elite specs have almost guaranteed rezzes either. I don’t think it was overpowered in this regard considering the rezzing ability of scrappers and druids.

Scrappers and druids can be cleaved out. Old WoP was impossible to cleave out. It was a guaranteed rez with 0 means of countering.

Couldn’t they just made downed allies not affected by it anymore, similar to how they removed slow/quickness from affecting stomping? A 3 sec evade for the mesmer only shouldn’t be that big of a deal, since we could also just use F4 for invul, right?