Guild Wars 2

Don’t get me wrong, I like the Mesmer playstyle and ideology. It’s just that whenever I jump into my ranger or guardian, I find playing the game much easier and relaxing compared to when I’m playing it on my Mesmer to achieve the same end result. The guardian and ranger just feels rightly powerful in comparison to the mobs I’m attacking as opposed to the Mesmer where I’m constantly hovering below 50% health and running away just to not die.

I’m level 42 and I never ever do areas at my same level (I’m currently finishing all the 15-25 ones) but even then, the class just feels really really gi mp in terms of damage output and survivability in PVE (and let’s not get started on DE’s – geez). The class is also so riddled with many bugs, and whenever there’s a patch I keep getting excited that the bugs will be fixed.

Oh yeah, sure, the bugs are fixed – the bugs that make the class somehow playable and enticing (I’m looking at you iWarden!). It’s just disappointing how much indifference ANet has for this class – all they see and fix are the skills which other people are complaining “zomg OP!!” about but they don’t do anything about the list of other bugs stickied on this forum that’s making this class so frustrating to paly.

My question to you is: Do you think it’s still worth playing this class considering that nothing worthwhile is being done by ANet to fix the various design flaws and bugs this class has? I really want to play this class ankittenep hoping that things will get better during the next patch – but they never do. I’m really losing hope and it seems like it was really a waste of time leveling this class up which is sad since this was the playstyle I liked the most.

The guardian and ranger are fun but I keep coming back to Mesmer because I miss the playstyle – and then I feel so kittened and discouraged so I jump back to the Ranger/Guardian.

Any words of encouragement? Will it ever get better? Constructive replies only please.

Mesmer is not meant to be the uber player in solo pve.

In instances we have some “vital” abilities.

If you want to damage, use GS + Sharper images + Precision.
Yet, you’ll still stay vulnerable. Learn to kite/ dodge.

pyronix.4081:

I’m level 42 and I never ever do areas at my same level (I’m currently finishing all the 15-25 ones) but even then, the class just feels really really gi mp in terms of damage output and survivability in PVE (and let’s not get started on DE’s – geez).

Which weapons you use and what build you have on your Mesmer?
I`m asking coz I always fight mobs higher lvl than me. My Mesmer is now lvl 64, but when it was lvl 61, I was fighting mobs lvl 68 and 69 (finished Heart lvl 69 to buy Eggplants for my cooking) and I didn`t get killed once.

@Shrook: Currently running with Scepter+Focus/Staff and a Duelist/Illusion build for bleed on phantasm crits.

stop this /rivercry topics…
There is actually only problem with players that play just bad and pick char that absolutely don’t fit them.
Reroll or face it like man… actually I have 0 problems.
BTW mesmers are a bit weaker and slower early game but they rapidly gain power with traits on lvl 80 I am able to handle solo most of champs in wilderness (group quests) maybe my guildies sux but they mostly cant beat them alone.

Scepter is a very hard weapon to use unless you are built perfectly for it. If you’re really set on it, consult someone else because I don’t use it. It doesn’t fit my play style, and from your description it doesn’t fit yours either. Using the focus can be tricky, too and requires good placement to be effective. If you want an easier time, I would replace your scepter/focus with a GS. You’ll have great AOE.

Start fights with the GS at max range and get a berzerker out quick. When enemies close pop Mirror Blade and Wave. If they are close to dead, shatter. If not, switch to staff, drop a CS), phase to get a clone and Chaos Armor. By this time they should be close to dead. If it’s a tough mob or you pull several (you can do that easily with these builds) pull out a warlock and shatter whenever your current target gets close to dead or CDs are back up on phantasms. Hints: The elasticity trait in Illusions goes a long way for this build, and use CS on yourself and clones, not the enemy (unless they are close enough).

If you are unwilling to give up your focus (I am too), I’d suggest going with a sword. You can really wreck things with a Warden/Frenzy combo -> shatter. Hardly anything lives through that except vets and dungeon mobs when I set it up right. These are the weapons I use, and I was rolling through Bloodtide Coast (46-47 areas) at levels 39-42 with it.

Scepter is an allround weapon. Mainly for Shattering purposes since it’s the clone factory.

Staff is the support and aoe weapon. I only equip it in instances.

Sword is the melee weapon with high atkspd. Fitting for Sharper Images builds.

GS is the sniper with “high atkspd”. Fitting for long range damage and Sharper Images builds.

You’re using pretty much the wrong weapons to cause high dps.

@pyronix: There’s your problem. You’re bringing a club to a knife fight and wondering why it doesn’t cut people.

If you want a Phantasm/bleed stack build, */Pistol and/or Greatsword are your best choices.

iDuelist fires off MANY hits in succession, and with a high pre build and phantasmal fury, you can rack up bleeds fast. iZerker is very much the same, although it will hit less times. It’s a great way to get the attention of a horde of mobs by bleeding them all.

Don’t forget clones either. Yes they do kitten damage, but they can and will crit. greatsword clones hit several times per attack cycle, making mirror blade a good source of bleedspam as well. Stupid things summon in melee though, which means they won’t last long. Sword clones aren’t bad at this either, but they tend to die before they get more than 1-2 hits off.

pyronix.4081:

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starting post —-

Since I’ve hit 40 and run with the build like one described here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Comprehensive-Mesmer-Guide-all-Parts/first#post138503 , I have almost no problem with pve if the zone level is not higher than 3-5 lvl above mine. Almost none because in the events you have to conquer some fiends taken place you can live forever but you just cannot kill all the bad guys quickly enough to get the place clear if you are alone. But that’s only one issue I have actually. With good gear (which I don’t have) the results would probably be much better. But why bother?

I run with staff and sword/focus or sword/pistol.

PS: Didn’t get my guardian and thief so high atm, so cant compare them to mesmer. But if they really would be much easier than him, then the game would be a joke cause it’s already not a big challenge with mesmer. So can’t believe it.

@Shrook: Currently running with Scepter+Focus/Staff and a Duelist/Illusion build for bleed on phantasm crits.

For scepter/focus I can recommend you to try Crippling Dissipation trait (Domination V), this will slow mobs down until Temporal Curtain is on cd. For Staff – Illusionary Elasticity (Illusions VII). But both weapons are slow with low dps, maybe best idea would be for you to try Greatsword / Sword-Pistol since iBeserker and iDuelist are best phantasmals and will work great in your “bleed on crit” build.

Its a funny post because I find it SO much easier to stay alive with my mesmer.

The thing to remember is that a mesmer is a mobile class, if you stop moving you die. If you want to plant yourself, yeah, go guardian, but my mesmer lives through a lot of things that would kill my guardian.

Decoy is pretty much the one skill that never leaves my hotbar though. If it got nerfed/reduced somehow, id probably be hating life, but its well balanced as is and an excellent skill

Also, creating clones on dodge just lets you do wonders.

If you take time to really learn the class, it will get better. If not, then you’ll probably find a guardian more suitable to your needs.

Also, a note: this class doesn’t have design flaws. It has bugs. But it is no where near “unplayable” as you make it out to be.

To the people saying this is another QQ thread – Wow… I never said the class was unplayable. It’s obviously playable as I’m already level 42. If it was unplayable I’d stop at level 2.

All I am just saying is it feels so very underpowered compared to other classes and I wish they’d fix it (or just fix the frikin bugs) just so that amount of deaths I have on my Mesmer won’t be as staggeringly high compared to that of my Ranger or Guardian.

I can handle 4-5 mobs at a time on the Guardian using a staff without breaking a sweat – with my Mesmer this situation means that I’ll be down within the first 15 seconds and hoping to just get enough damage to kills something so I can rally.

Also:

1. Swords: I tried it, was nice – but I absolutely detest being in melee range (<900) and I won’t use it even if it had a “one hit kill all mobs instantly” button (okay… if it had that – maybe).

2. I tried pistol before but it feels much less versatile than focus considering that iDuelist is not AoE and it’s not as if Mesmers have breadth in terms of AoE options compared to some of the other classes. The iWarden is like one of the last bastions of AoE I can somewhat rely on.

3. I feel that, aside from the iWarden, I’m being “forced” to use focus for the speed buff. I’ve tried swapping it out with other offhands but at the end of the day, the faster I get around, the faster I get things done so now I feel like I’m trapped in the choice of either sucking it up with focus or moving slower and since I’m not yet 80, speed kinda wins

I can compromise on the staff and replace my build with GS/Sceptre+Focus. I was really using GS but replaced it with the staff because the Rare GS’s are kinda expensive compared to the staves at my current level.

While I can compromise on the type of build, I can’t compromise on the weapon as I really hate going melee. It’s going to be two of either GS, Staff, or Sceptre + offhand for me. Not sure if there’s a viable build in there. :/

Anyway, for those who were really nice and said something constructive and offered suggestions – thanks. I’ll give those a try.

And for the people who were like “zomg why are joo having such a hard time with Mesmer wen I is awsome with this class lololol maybe u r noob” (I’m sure this was not how you said it but that’s how I hear it in my head) I honestly don’t know where you’re coming from. I kill Veteran Mobs with 3 to 4 of their minions all at the same time easy with a Ranger. I cannot get nowhere near that with the Mesmer. Granted my Ranger is just level 29 but he’s doing the exact same maps/encounters as my Mesmer who’s level 42 so I don’t see why the Ranger should come out on top (even taking dynamic scaling into consideration).

I also killed alot Veteran flagged mobs myself. I’m still having a hard time with Champion flagged ones.

The main point of good Mesmers is the kiting. You’ll learn it by time. Helpful is the “gain vigor on crits” minor trait, especially with crit builds.
Yesterday I played CoE instance with Guardian, Ranger, Necro and Elementalist. I died the least, often kept the attacking-chain myself (not that they were bad). At the last boss, I didn’t die once. Even if he immobilizes, uses target aoes and fills 60% of the room with aoe circles (which drain 80% of my HP), as long as I have room to kite, I didn’t have problems. Damaging isn’t the main aspect of Mesmers and you can’t fool big bosses with illusions either, but he didn’t manage to kill me.

Pyronix, I’m on a mobile device so my response won’t be as elaborate as I want it to be, but here we go; A mesmer and a ranger are on two different ends of the spectrum. Rangers are a lot easier to play. Mesmers are just as capable of performing deeds that other professions can do, however it takes a lot more effort and thinking along with wits and fast reaction times. Do NOT take this as me saying any class that’s easy to play is bad. To elaborate further, what I specifically mean is this; it is easier to do average on a ranger than it is to do on a mesmer. This does not mean that the ranger or any other simpler class cannot be complex or take time to master. Overall, though, the mesmer just takes twice as much effort to do the same thing, WHICH ISN’T A BAD THING!!! A lot of people enjoy the fact they’re higher maintenance.

TL;DR – It is a very highly powerful class that takes twice the amount of manpower to play.

At your level you should be taking three or more mobs your level without blinking. Check your gear, and Mr Prometheus’s guide as someone aready suggested. I watched his build guide and it helped immensely, even though I chose to do something quite different. The class doesn’t need to get better, it’s great. There are bugs but nothing that ruins the game for us. If you get better at playing Mesmer, it will get better. Or Mesmer just isn’t your cup of tequila.

My mesmer at level 80 can clear Orr MUCH faster and more easily than my ranger can; I routinely pull 3+ mobs on my mesmer and easily survive pulls of 5-6, where my ranger can die with only 3 mobs. Both are in full exotic gear. The difference in power even between level 79 and level 80 was VERY noticeable. I found mesmers are much more reliant on traits and gear than rangers.

There is nothing wrong with the class design. The main problem has to do with bugs in traits and skills.

Using the lowest DPS weapons available to the class, then complaining about low DPS, is making a problem where there doesn’t need to be one. You keep bringing up the Guardian. Would you use Mace and Shield, then complain about low DPS, when you could be using the Greatsword instead? Makes as much sense.

The underlying problem common to all these threads — and they are legion — is that players expect the class to conform to their expectations, rather than learning the class as designed. As long as you do that, you will be miserable and it won’t be fun.

I know it gets said again and again, but since the same complaint comes up again and again, it’s still true. If you want to be successful as a Mesmer, learn how to play a Mesmer. Not a Ranger. Not a Guardian.

Proposing to redesign the class because you don’t understand it isn’t a solution, and it’s not going to happen anyway, because the developers put a great deal of thought into this class, and it’s very powerful once unlocked.

I know this sounds harsh, but that’s the way it is. And the reason I can say all this with confidence is because I used to feel exactly the same way about this class as you do now, right down to the urgent need for a redesign.

I think it’s a rite of passage, and hope maybe someday you can look back on this phase with a chuckle, the way I do when I remember how I threw up my own hands in defeat — before coming back, starting with a fresh approach, studying the way the class is designed, discarding my self-imposed constraints and realizing it’s far and away the best class I’ve ever played in any MMO.

YMMV, of course.

some of the advice i’m seeing must come from mesmers who rolled well before the gs change and never tried it out.

greatsword is all you need levelling up. your 2nd weapon should be for either purely defensive reasons or being able to get out a high damage, likely-to-survive-a-bit second phantasm immediately. this would pretty much be staff

do not gear for condition damage. condition gear has high crit and condition damage but low power. you can’t crit on objects, you cant bleed objects and you can’t crit on large zone-wide event mobs like claw of jormag or the behemoth in queensdale. of course in that last situation yoru bleeds will be constantly overwritten.

gear power/precision.

at levels up to orr or – depending on faction choice – when you first start dealing with risen thralls, the ranger is going to feel op compared to all others. this is because your pets will tank for you while you shoot in safety. pet about to die? swap in another.

rangers pay for this early game prowess at 80 or when they start to hit risen en masse, as well as in dungeons. they have almost zero utility to bring to a group outside of healing spring for it’s water field, MAYBE search and rescue, and maybe spirits if your group simply couldn’t care what you do and you are just there as a 5th body.

glass cannon rangers also do less damage than mesmers at 80. i have an 80 ranger. it’s in full level 80 berserker exotics (i also have a full level 80 rampager exotic set and a full level 80 exotic explorer set – jewelry too – for her) and does not touch the damage potential of my mesmer in group content who is only in level 78 exotic berserker set, 3 80 exotic berserker jewelry, 2 rampager exotic jewelry (for the extra crit) and less total crit, power and crit damage.

my mesmer also brings a lot of great utility in the form of all-important condition removal and boon stripping, reflection and the ability to drop aggro momentarily (albeit none of that all at the same time). chaos storm grants aegis!!! you can spec for only 15 points to have your phanstams grant regen. takes 30 for a ranger to make spirits grant regen. O_o

your mesmer is in its 40’s. buy level 40 gear. get a gs and a staff. don’t try to melee, kite everything. get into the habit. shatter when mob is under 20%. slot carnelian in your armor (ruby later), don’t screw with runes until 80. get perception sigil, it’s level 39. go to harathi highlands and do the heart up in the northwest near the centaurs – you can buy cheaply bersker-statted (3 stats) weaponry (all of it) for cheap with great graphics. keep your gear up to date every 5 or 10 levels (every 10 after 60, stick with berserker).

i hit 80 in 71 hours played on the mesmer, my third 80. no crafting cheese here, and sent to new areas i had not seen previously due to race and faction choice.

bottom line – i feel stronger in orr on my mesmer than my 80 ranger and 80 warrior, with inferior gear.

Hey Pyronix, can you post your build specifics? I’d like to see your trait layout for the weapon sets your using and also what utilities you usually run with.

I hit 80 on my mesmer last week and have been roaming Orr solo and with zerg for the past few days. Let me tell you that Orr is a very different beast from the rest of the world – forcing you to constantly be on your toes and test your knowledge and confidence in your profession. You can’t just smash and shoot like a ranger/warrior/guardian.

Mesmer is much more of a micromangement profession with slower fights but massive utility and (tbh) huge survivability – unless you’re a glass canon spec.

Pre Orr, I ran a staff, sword/focus setup and it worked pretty well for soloing most zones. The thing about Mesmer is that you can’t just find 2 or 3 weapons you like and never ever change.

Now, in Orr, I run mainly staff/greatsword for the overall dps/defense/survivability. The recent changes to GS have made it an amazing weapon!

I’ve also swapped my traits for a shatter factory build and Orr went from being a nightmare to being very manageable, albeit still annoying at times :P. I’ve supplemented my toughness (necessary for soloing around dangerous areas as we have low toughness to begin with) with armor and trinkets, as well as balancing high power and precision because our conditions (bleed, confusion) will NOT do the trick on their own. You need power.

A typical fight for me is a keyboard tango. I’m always, ALWAYS moving. I have clone on dodge so I’m producing illusions like crazy and shattering for spike damage and confusion. Illusionary Persona (Illusions 30) allows me to dodge roll through a couple mobs and shatter myself and clones, dodge again and either throw out a warlock or berserker, let them get off one attack and shatter. Fights can still be slower but they are NOT boring And as long as I can keep clones popping out and give phantasms a second to launch one attack, I’m barely getting scratched. High toughness helps and a few points in vitality to round it out helps ward off the waves of conditions that Orr mobs love to dump on you.

You’re also fresh into your 40’s and this is honestly where mesmer begins to feel more powerful due to having access to more traits. It’ll still feel weak if you’re constantly jumping to other front-loading damage classes like ranger and guardian, but less weak than it was in the 20s.

And that brings me to one other thing. Comparing mesmer to a ranger and guardian is simply not fair to the mesmer. Ranger and guardian and warrior even, are front-end DPS focused – completely different! Sure the guardian has low base vit, but they also have massive amounts of defense skills and can smash stuff with their heavy weapons. Mesmers are a more delicate class. We can’t (and weren’t designed) to deal massive dps inherently. To make up for that, we have a plethora of tricks (illusions) and utilities to keep our opponents busy while we whittle away at them. Yes it’s slower and yes it requires keyboard dancing and micromanaging, but that’s the meat of the profession.

I love it! And fortunately, I haven’t felt the “bug ridden” aspect of the class. Sure some things are a little bumpy sometimes, but overall, it’s been a blast. At the very beginning and for the first 25 levels, I was experiencing a love/hate relationship with my mesmer. I started some alts, but kept coming back and finally decided to get invested in learning mesmer and all of it’s idiosyncrasies.

If you really like the class, learn it. Be flexible. Retrait often (it’s cheap) and try out new utilities. Also learn all the weapons and carry 4 or 5 on you for swapping. Mesmer makes you work for the love, but at lvl 80, I’m smitten. Don’t hands-down refuse to use other weapons. Learn to use them all. Sticking to 2 or 3 will weaken you overall. You need to know their strengths and weaknesses and their situational uses.

And when it comes to traits, use what can maximize your current state and don’t build for the future. You can retrait anytime your in a city and it’s quite cheap. If you’re constantly running scepter and staff, then you should focus on shattering often. Scepter is a clone factory and it’s main condition is confusion, not bleed. Confusion is also super weak in PvE as mobs do not attack often enough for the condition to affect them. In PvP and WvW it’s much more useful. Balance your condition damage by looking for some more immediate dps/cripple traits and weapons. This is also where going pistol would help if you really want to hang on to your scepter. Otherwise, mainhand sword is awesome when running tandem with focus.

MH sword has the leap and swap resulting in the immobilize. This allows you to leap clone, throw down warden, swap (immobilize) and let the warden peel away the mob or mobs hp pool. You can supplement that burst by sword #2. Then swap to staff -> phase retreat -> autoattk until dead. Or warlock for a heavy hit and shatter. The synergy of sword/focus is beautiful like that. You can also drop a chaos storm -> leap (clone gets chaos armor) -> warden -> swap (immobilize) -> warden (confusing bolts) and all clones get block while in the storm making them very tanky for a few seconds.

Just keep playing and experimenting with combos and finishers like that. Soon you’ll become more of an expert when you begin to learn the depth of the class and then you’ll love it.

And I do highly recommend the GS. Between the berserker, the might building, the knockback and the super long range of the autoattk, it’s beautiful

Sorry I wrote a book for ya, but I hope it was a little helpful. Do post your build specs if you want some more advice or a critique for your level.

Sorry, no tl;dr on this :P

All of you guys who posted after my last post – thank you so much for your suggestions and words of encouragement. Feel really relieved to know all that work spent wasn’t for nothing. I guess I just gotta keep at it, seems like the learning curve is a bit steep.

pyronix.4081:

Don’t get me wrong, I like the Mesmer playstyle and ideology. It’s just that whenever I jump into my ranger or guardian, I find playing the game much easier and relaxing compared to when I’m playing it on my Mesmer to achieve the same end result. The guardian and ranger just feels rightly powerful in comparison to the mobs I’m attacking as opposed to the Mesmer where I’m constantly hovering below 50% health and running away just to not die.

I’m level 42 and I never ever do areas at my same level (I’m currently finishing all the 15-25 ones) but even then, the class just feels really really gi mp in terms of damage output and survivability in PVE (and let’s not get started on DE’s – geez). The class is also so riddled with many bugs, and whenever there’s a patch I keep getting excited that the bugs will be fixed.

Any words of encouragement? Will it ever get better? Constructive replies only please.

I stopped here, because you must understand something.

You are deliberately hindering yourself.

You are level 42 doing LOWER level areas, not level appropriate ones, which would drop gear appropriate for your level. When you get level adjusted, so do your stats. And that means, that level 20 piece of armor you are wearing in that level 20 zone, is more equivalent to level 5 or 6.

You might as well run around naked screaming, “look at me! Look at me!”
Your weapons get scaled too, so you are not doing as much damage.

We all want world completion. Just do it when you are lvel 80, been to Orr and back, and have armor/weapons/jewellry befitting a level 80. Then, you will be grossly overpowered for the level zone you are in.

My mesmer is now 63 and it’s been a very, very easy ride. But I do remember the first 20 levels being shockingly bad, to the point that I nearly abandoned her. She had literally nothing to recommend her at that point, aside from a somewhat novel mechanic that kept me at it. Once I got past 25 or so things changed up a gear, and continued to improve dramatically as the trait points built up.

What others have said is spot on,yeah it might be stating the obvious but mobility is absolutely crucial to this class and it has a whole deck of ways to kite mobs really effectively, to the point that in some fights, even if I’m playing hit and run with big hitting mobs, I hardly ever take damage. When I do though, it’s because I had a lapse and when that happens I can get swatted like a bug. But again, I have so many ways to avoid it that it’s purely down to not watching what I’m doing.

I’ve been running a domination/dueling build at 30/20 and just started putting points into inspiration. I’ve been mostly stacking power and precision with some crit here and there which averages around 48 to 50%, higher depending on runes and gems. I’ve been alternating between staff and great sword quite a lot with slight bias for the latter due to it seeming to be more effective in DEs, but sword/sword has been where the fun is for me, sword/pistol if I fancy having a little more control, and now and again I’ll run with sword/focus purely for some additional utility.

I’ve found with this build and load out that I pretty much rule most general encounters. In fact, I can easily take on 5 or 6 mobs including a veteran among them and as long as my weapons are up to date, I’ll often come out of it with barely a scratch. In fact, of the classes I’ve played, the mesmer is the one I’m least likely to worry about taking on any veteran in any situation, they just aren’t any trouble when you so hard to hit that it feels like you’re taking the pee.

At your level I’d expect you to have a similar experience. Mesmers are just tremendously effective hit and run kite specialists that might take a little time to warm up their dps, but when they do it’s pretty awesome to behold.

Stick with it, try different load outs and builds, and just practice, it will click and then you’ll wonder how people can stand other classes that are either face roll dull or total paper tigers. Mesmers rock.