Guild Wars 2

Hey Peeps!

I was just wondering what you all thought of Winds of Chaos, the Staff auto-attack, as I have mixed feelings about it.

In my condition damage build, I am happy when I can proc burning or bleeding with WoC. But I have to say I can’t help but shed a tear each time me or a clone procs the 1 stack of Vulnerability for 5 seconds. With that and my abysmal base attack, all I get from my slow, relflectable projectile on a Vulnerability proc is about 285 damage- 450 if I manage to crit- compared to the 800-1300 or so I would have gotten with one of the other two conditions. Oh boy!

If my clones proc the vulnerability, they’ve essentially an wasted attack.

I still think the staff is a solid/obvious choice for a condition Mesmer but dang… that Vulnerability! I can’t really use it and I don’t know how much 2-4 stacks of vulnerability is helping my allies out as we focus on a target.

Given WoC as is, I think it’d be cool if they could do one of the following:

1. Increase vulnerability to 2 stacks and increase staff base damage OR

2. Double-Load the Vulnerability Proc with an additional condition such as 1-2 Seconds of Poison, 1 Second of Chill or 1 Second of Weakness- making this Proc more about utility and adding thematic connectivity to Chaos Storm. OR

3. Leave the current proc functionality but alter WoC to be an “invoke” skill like Flamestrike, Blood Curse, or the Alpha skill Chaos Strike with the ability to effect one additional target- friend or foe- adjacent to the target. That way I can be happy knowing that regardless of the proc I get, the attack WILL hit, much like the assurance given by using the aforementioned skills or Spatial Surge. It can be frustrating/impossible for me or my clones to hit a target with WoC when the target is running away- especially as ledges or other targets interfere with Line of Sight.

These are thoughts from a Rabid-built Mesmer.

What thoughts do you guys have? How does staff work in other builds such as Power-based or Rampager’s builds? How satisfied are you with WoC and why? I look forward to hearing what you have to say!

Warning: PvE-Dungeon tryhard perspective.
Staff works best with a direct damage setup, even tough WoC applies conditions as well.
The reason for this are mainly: Condition Mesmers suck in Dungeons, you throw away a lot of potential (reflections scale of your critchance and critdamage, not conditiondamage), condition builds get owned by their group, since a lot of classes apply bleeding even tough they are not condition spec’d, taking away from your potential, using clones to apply conditions is a waste if you compare them to your phantasms (the hardest hitting skills of a mesmer, aside from gs#4…).
Warlocks deal great damage and scale of Power, Precision, Critdamage. The amount of Conditions on the target does not mean that the conditions must be applied by condition classes, in general a lot of classes apply conditions even when they are not condition spec’d.
So after all I say that Staff works best as a utility weapon in a Zerker set (or Power based) at least from a dungeon tryhard persective.
Am I satisfied with WoC? No, not at all. Same goes for Spatial Surge and thats the reason why I stick with Sword most of the time. Ranged damage is too low compared to melee damage. Also the fact, that these attacks get blocked by targets standing in the way makes it even worse (things beeing uncontrollable = sucks).

I completely agree with Agony. I run Sword/Focus and Staff with primarily power/precision/crit damage gear with 0/30/30/10/0 traits (sounds weird, but seriously, try it out. So dank). With sword training, warden’s feedback, and the trait that decreases the cd on staff skills, there isn’t really any time to be auto attacking with WoC. With these weapons and traits you have the bulk/utility to support 100% melee uptime, which means sword auto attack is much more useful.

Condition Builds scale very well of CritChance actually, because of Sharper Images. Also, if your allies are not Condition-specced then your conditions will overwrite theirs and not vice versa, because the stack with the highest damage has priority.

Vulnerability on Winds of Chaos is fine to me, it’s a balancing factor… at least, that’s what I would’ve said before Anet went and nerfed Winds of Chaos with their bounce logic change. Previously you could easily maintain 10+ Bleeding and very constant (sometimes even peramanent) Burning on the target while stacking multiple stacks of Might and maintaining permanent Fury on yourself. You could still do that now, but you’ll have to stick to your target like glue for that to happen.

As long as it has 1 crappy stack of vulnerability i will never be satisfied. I would even take Weakness instead of **** vulnerability.

While WOC was using the old bounce mechanic it was passable. Currently it’s not worth using as it’s very difficult to retain the boon stacks on yourself if you make any use of the #2 skill (and why wouldn’t you) and the new bounce logic may often mean extra bounces won’t even find their way to an enemy.

I can actually understand why Ranged attacks do less damage on average than melee attacks from the perspective of damage taken/damage dealt perspective: theoretically, melee fighters need time to get in close to their targets and stay on top of them in order to do damage whereas ranged fighters don’t need to manage movement in the same degree. Additionally, melee fighters are in much more danger than ranged fighters as they typically have a harder time neutralizing attacks/damage.

Understanding this, If the damage pools were even between melee and ranged damage skills, melee would be at an obvious disadvantage. Thus I understand needing to have to have “weaker” ranged attacks vs. melee attacks- lower risk, lower reward: higher risk, higher reward respectively. In fact, I think in one of Anet’s earliest blog posts, they address this very rationale between ranged and melee attacks. I can be at peace with this.

However, what I have yet to reconcile is the balancing between Condition Damage based builds and Power based builds. In the field of Mesmers at least, It seems that no matter what the scenario is, Power based builds are superior to condition damage builds.

While Condition Damage is unique in that it can by-pass armor, Protection, and “on hit/on attack” effects like retaliation, confusion, traits and sigils and allows you do passive damage over time, it seems Power based builds will still out damage and kill a target faster than Condition Damaged builds- regardless of the length of combat which baffles me further.

Power based builds:
1. Can hurt non-enemy objects to a far superior degree. Objects don’t take condition damage.
2.Do not have to “compete” with other Power based builds whereas condition damage builds may have to compete for stacks.
3. Are less “risky” to play given that condition damage is limited damage ticks in a given second- limiting kill speed. The more time a target is alive allows them more time to think/react, use more heals, attacks and condition removal, allows more time for help to arrive and join the fight.

Additionally there are several monsters in the game immune to conditions ( risen Hylek, Destroyers), and other traits/runes/foods skills/combos that cleanse, reduce the duration of, or even grant immunity to conditions (i.e. Automated Response). Conversely, there are few of these affects that punish Power based builds. And none of these existing anti-Power damage effects are to the same degree- there is no 40% Damage Reduction Food!

I would love to see WoC, and perhaps the playstyle of Condition Damage builds in general, compensated a bit more in light of their lack of versatility/efficacy compared to Power based builds.

Mr Indigo.4621:

I completely agree with Agony. I run Sword/Focus and Staff with primarily power/precision/crit damage gear with 0/30/30/10/0 traits (sounds weird, but seriously, try it out. So dank). With sword training, warden’s feedback, and the trait that decreases the cd on staff skills, there isn’t really any time to be auto attacking with WoC. With these weapons and traits you have the bulk/utility to support 100% melee uptime, which means sword auto attack is much more useful.

I know this is a bit off topic, but I’m always checking out new build options. You mention warden’s feedback with your 0/30/30/10/0 build – how is that possible? I’m thinking you must have a typo – don’t you have to have 20 in Inspiration for Warden’s Feedback?

Would love to have you post your build somewhere (in a new topic maybe?), would be awesome to check it out!

To be honest, I’d be skeptical of any build that lacks Illusions 5.