Guild Wars 2

Hello Mesmer community, I would like some advice on what I should be running in WvW.

I started playing Guild Wars 2 around three months ago and from level 20 to 80 have been running with zergs. I was the kind of person who would chase after people only to find out, I’ve been lured out of my zerg to get stomped. Now this happened a few times, along with watching people duel, and somewhat opened my eyes to roaming. Roaming from then on became my goal. The second I hit level 80 I bought a full exotic Knights set and started using a PU build. 20/20/30 was the build and was orientated around letting phantasms kill while I stealth. Now it was working out very well but I could never kill a warrior, guard or thief. The players I did manage to kill were somewhat upset about the fact that I was running PU, claiming it required no “skill”. After trying a few more PU builds like Entropy’s “Hidden Fire”, and Natsu Dragneel’s “Black Water” I learned that PU was somewhat of a “cheese” build*, and lost my interest in it very fast. From there I started looking at shatter builds, because I wanted to play something more skill orientated. This is when I found Osicat’s “Shatter Cat” build and Flimp’s Shatter Build. Now, these builds were really strong in some areas, and not so strong in others, which is understandable. “Shatter Cat” provided a good amount of survivability, but not a lot of damage, whereas Flimp’s Shatter Build, and later on, I bamf Joe’s Shatter build provided a heavy amount of damage, but little to no survivability.

Now my question is, should I be roaming with a Squishy shatter build and just get better with my movement, positioning and pace, or is my only option PU for sustainability and heavy damage?

*In solely my opinion.

In my opinion, having played both specs:

PU is a hell of a lot more suitable for roaming, especially if you are solo roaming. You just have a lot more survivability through toughness/boon generation/stealth uptime. I also feel like the damage is more sustained and consistent with phantasms and you can outlast opponents easier. Once you have three phantasms out, the constant pressure you keep is tremendous. And phantasm PU builds are really great vs thieves because as soon as they pop out of stealth the phantasms automatically target the thief all at once.

Shatter builds definitely have their advantages but I feel that they are inferior to PU builds when it comes to roaming overall. As a shatter build you are a hell of a lot more glassy and it is a lot less forgiving than a PU build in which you are heavily reliant on how you time your active defenses in order to survive. Speaking about active defenses, there are a lot of active defenses that if people time it correctly can completely mitigate the damage a shatter mesmer does. I.e if a warrior uses Endure Pain, Shield Stance, or Whirlwind for the evade, or if an Ele uses Burning Speed, Mist form, or if a Thief just simply teleports and uses their stealth and a million evades, well, you get the point. Shatters are fairly easy to dodge and the clones are easy to kill. Shatter builds in general are highly counterable. And plus, most shatter builds rely on illusionary leap to get off their shatters, which in itself is a very buggy skill that doesn’t work on different terrain elevations. If an opponent uses - condition duration food the immobilize lasts for like a second and a half. Most shatter mesmers need to get into melee range to deal damage. The problem with that is Mesmers have next to no sustain, and especially as a shatter mesmer you won’t have a whole lot of armor or condition removal. And if you shatter into a group, be careful of retaliation because that will probably kill you.

However, the ability for a shatter mesmer to consistently boon strip and the ability to easily take somebody from 100-0 almost instantly is definitely a great strongpoint to have. I can’t count how many times I’ve gotten below 4-5K health only for the opponent to lower their guard and go full out aggressive and then I get one good shatter and pretty much kill them. Sometimes it is very difficult to get off a really good shatter, let alone get off a 3 clone shatter. Removing protection, swiftness and multiple might-stacks is invaluable as well. In my opinion however, if you run with an organized group that can cover your weaknesses they bring more to the table then PU mesmers, and in small group fights the DPS tends to be more reliable than phantasms.

Also, don’t expect to beat competent players who run so called "cheese builds". i.e D/P Thieves, Condi Engis, PU Mesmers, etc.

Despite all these weaknesses, the reason I play a Shatter Mesmer over a PU Mesmer is that it is a whole lot of fun and requires better timing and skill. When you get that down, it can be a fairly rewarding spec, although it isn’t quite there yet IMO compared to other builds. However if they made illusionary leap function more smoothly I think it would be instantly a much better build.

My advice would be to play both. Both have frustrating, boring or fun moments so you don’t want to restrict yourself to one build only.

Shatter is fun and you’ll get lots of adrenaline rushes, but there are times where you just can’t graze condition tanks or hit someone who’s experienced in facing shatter. PU can also be fun and manipulative but, as you may noticed, can lead to different kinds of issue such as arguments, simply ignored or long battle.

If you like shatter, I also recommend you to watch Supcutie or Vashury’s channel on youtube.

I’ve been playing PU (condi version) since I got my Mesmer to 80. I was so good with it after a few months. I could take on 1v5 and come out victorious a healthy amount of times.
People don’t know how to fight PU so they talk bad about it which is really immature in my opinion. It’s really so easy to beat a PU mesmer and yet it seems like no one knows how to do that. There is a lot you can do with it if you really, really master it. It’s easy to get the grips of and do well with, but to really rule with it and be almost impossible to beat takes a lot of skill. Kind of the way warrior are. It’s also a bit dull to play after a while.
I got bored on my PU set and tried out shatter. I loved it so much that I salvaged my PU condi set for the gold I could get out of it (I made 10g profit in the end thanks to Perplexity almost doubling in price).
I kind of regret doing that.
Play shatter a bit, it’s very, very fun, but keep PU set. I think I actually prefer PU for roaming, while shatter is more fun for PvP.
I do sometimes run shatter in WvW, but I’ve almost completely dropped WvW now that I have no PU set. I’m working on getting another PU set again as I’m writing this. (New Slyvari mesmer will get the PU set and with time the power set as well, just need to get the gold for the runes/sigils..)
Try both out in WvW and see what you like. It’s not like it’s expensive to get a new build. It just takes a little bit of time.
If you want to try out the currently most popular shatter set, I made a guide for it since there was none. I went into detail about every single trait, utility and stat choice. I also added quite a few video links and a lot of literature for mesmers of all skill levels. Take a look at it!
If you’ll need any help with shatter in any game mode, feel free to PM me in game, I’d love to help you out!

Have a wonderful rest of the day mate
Much love,

Monns

if you want to get better at the game in general, play glassy shatter build.

if you want to have a good time and kill random nubs, play PU condi.

but know that playing a shatter build takes considerably more skill than playing PU, as a result you essentially get better at ALL classes because it teaches you positioning and dodge timing.

1. At current moment PU>Shatter in all game mods except high level tpvp (and only due to quick boon removes and point-capture system)
For those who disagree and will write about “skill”: With same skill PU>shatter in 10 of 10 fights. Good PU even don’t let shatter him.
2. PU (power ofc) have the same or even more chase abilities: cripple from GS,3 from SW and stun from pistol.
3. When you will meet ganking group( it will be more often then 1×1) PU have more chances to avoid fight

Play shatter – use stealth (torch, decoy, mass invis).

Best of both worlds.

Thanks to all that have answered to far! I don’t mind trying new builds, so if you want to link anything please go a head.

Also Condition’s are something I’m willing to try, but aren’t really something that swings my way.

DoomKnightMax.6592:

Thanks to all that have answered to far! I don’t mind trying new builds, so if you want to link anything please go a head.

Also Condition’s are something I’m willing to try, but aren’t really something that swings my way.

The builds I use are in the signature below. All pretty standard trait and skill choices, but gear may be a little different.

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 Thanks for the feedback. I will start to learn both builds and will make sure I check out those channels.

@Jurica.1742 :O Thanks for the build Monns! I’ll try it out asap and thanks for the advice!

@wads.5730 I am currently using I bamf Joes Shatter build which is super glassy, and i’ll make sure to get better at positioning and dodge timing.

@Anton.1769 I think you should link me the build your talking about, looks like something ill try out.

@Curunen.8729 I do use invisibility utility skills, but I only use torch when i’m using gs as a main hand. Staff+Sword/Torch doesn’t give me much dps from illusions which is a nice bonus to have. I’ll make sure to try out your build

DoomKnightMax.6592:

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@Curunen.8729 I do use invisibility utility skills, but I only use torch when i’m using gs as a main hand. Staff+Sword/Torch doesn’t give me much dps from illusions which is a nice bonus to have. I’ll make sure to try out your build

Well I’ve just updated all the links to my builds, current gear as well as projected gear (after the wondeful ascended grind which is slow going… ;D), with a huge focus on minimising gear changes and costs, taking into account all the different current pvp scenarios. I like things to be neat and tidy in the inventory!

I agree that sadly staff + sword/torch just doesn’t cut it anymore, so I have had to swith full time to greatsword + sword/torch.

Greatsword + sword/torch is devastating providing you use all your defensive skills and dodges wisely, together with good positioning. The Purple Wing’s and Vashury’s videos demonstrate fantastic use of this combo.

You can of course use any combination of weapons you like – such as staff + sword/pistol or anything that feels good to you.

Curunen.8729:

DoomKnightMax.6592:

<snip>

@Curunen.8729 I do use invisibility utility skills, but I only use torch when i’m using gs as a main hand. Staff+Sword/Torch doesn’t give me much dps from illusions which is a nice bonus to have. I’ll make sure to try out your build

I agree that sadly staff + sword/torch just doesn’t cut it anymore, so I have had to swith full time to greatsword + sword/torch.

Greatsword + sword/torch is devastating providing you use all your defensive skills and dodges wisely, together with good positioning. The Purple Wing’s and Vashury’s videos demonstrate fantastic use of this combo.

You can of course use any combination of weapons you like – such as staff + sword/pistol or anything that feels good to you.

Im working towards ascended gear too! Getting the Dragonite ore and Bolt of Damask is so hard

Also I have a question about your build. Why did you pick Far-Reaching Manipulation’s over Cleansing configuration or Shattered Concentration?

DoomKnightMax.6592:

I think you should link me the build your talking about, looks like something ill try out.

It depends entirely on the situation, especially given it is easy to retrait.

The two options are 2/6/0/0/6 (my preference) or 4/4/0/0/6 (when you need boon strip or torch condition removal).

1200 blink is a necessity for mobility IMO, especially if not using staff, so the question should be really why do I pick blade training over cleansing conflagration or shattered concentration.

Most of the time I play solo – I don’t play in a guild, and so I always have the option to fight or to run away.

So the answer is simply because I don’t need the boon strip or the torch trait, and I’d rather have more lower cooldown on blurred frenzy/ileap – I can usually get off two bursts in Sw/T before having to switch back to greatsword, which I can’t do as easily if blurred frenzy is at 12 seconds. Also, never dismiss confusing combatants and the visual clutter it provides, especially with stealth and burst damage.

If I get invited to duel a guardian or something, then yes it’s better to retrait and take boon strip. Or if forced to duel some heavy condition build, retrait and take torch trait. I’ve highlighted the scenarios in my build list.

Generally I prefer to play with 2/6/0/0/6 if I’m running around solo.

If you want your hand held in this game and get carried, play PU

If you want to learn how to play well and be a good player generally, play shatter

@Curunen I’ll make sure to keep that in mind, because of different situations. Boon strip works really well against D/D ele’s and guards whereas cleansing torch helps with the extra condition removal.

@Blitzkrieg Yea, that’s the argument many had proposed, but again, Mesmer’s shouldn’t be put down for using PU because Warriors have signets and Thieves have I think it was “condition” something? When I run glkittenter and don’t watch my back, because of my low HP, i get 1-2 shot usually. :P

DoomKnightMax.6592:

When I run glkittenter and don’t watch my back, because of my low HP, i get 1-2 shot usually. :P

The key I have learnt (the hard way) with shatter is to have all your panic buttons and their cooldowns in finger memory, especially when running around out of combat and likely to get jumped by someone. That would be distortion, decoy, diversion, blurred frenzy, prestige, blink, power cleanse (if immobilised and need to move asap). If in combat then things like ileap swap.

Hitting those buttons without needing to think about it can be the difference between life and death.

While I do agree that shatter has a higher skill floor and a higher skill ceiling than PU power build. But I think people over blow the whole PU is for people with no skill thing. Stealth is op, but in the hands of a skilled player it can be that much more effective. So PU may have a low skill floor the skill ceiling is quite high imo.

Much thanks to all that replied! You all answered my question.

Mogar.9216:

While I do agree that shatter has a higher skill floor and a higher skill ceiling than PU power build. But I think people over blow the whole PU is for people with no skill thing. Stealth is op, but in the hands of a skilled player it can be that much more effective. So PU may have a low skill floor the skill ceiling is quite high imo.

How is there a skill ceiling on automated boon generation that makes you ridiculously overpowered? This is the problem with the playerbase and the same argument spirit rangers make. You summon a spirit and get boons automatically and body blockers and people call that skill. You can constantly rotate through a set of invis buttons and get boon automatically and people claim a high skill ceiling. Yes, the mesmer itself has a skill ceiling of some sort, but PU makes that skill ceiling so low it’s unbelievable. It literally limits you as a good player because no other class gets that amount of sustain, invis, protection, regen and aegis uptime in the entire game. Try playing shatter then play PU , it’s incomparable how much of a better player in general (not even with the class itself but with reaction time and aggressive timing and positioning) you need to be with shatter over PU. PU is best described as the Shadow arts of thieves for mesmers but contained into one GM trait as opposed to a full trait line for thieves. It’s viable, but both of those literally limit/keep you from getting better as a player.

I have to agree that shatter is definitely more difficult, but you will win more and die less as PU. Take two equally skilled mesmer and have them duel, one as PU and one kittenter. Who’s going to win? Questions about cheese aside, if both people are equally as good at playing the game the PU will win every time.

Now will someone get as good as a dedicated shatter player if they only play PU? Probably not.

But look this isn’t professional MMA, it’s a mmorpg and so play whatever is fun. If you like winning more than losing than go PU. If you like a challenge and will trade dying more often for some probably more satisfying wins, go shatter. PU is there and as long as it is those who strictly play to win and don’t care too much about how they win will probably spec into it because it’s hands down the strongest trait we have available to us.

I’ve played both ankitten ot a pro by any means, but I find shatter too frustrating in certain situations/fights and find PU very boring, so I don’t play either anymore.

One thing about PU, it can definitely be boring. Shatter is never boring.

I’ll trait into PU when i need to hide in Stonemist castle or an enemy keep.

When i’m not doing that I’d rather play shatter. so much more fun IMO

Both are fun and do different things very well.

With PU and a bit of skill you are pretty much immortal and you can whittle down pretty much anybody. Shatter has a whole lot of control and a lot of room to outplay and burst down skilled opponents, which PU definitely lacks. Shatter is very vulnerable to being outplayed itself though, and outnumbered situations and ambushes will easily delete you from the map.

From my experience with my mesmer. I’ve played this class for about 5months straight now. I’ve undergone multiple builds ranging from PU , shatter, intterupt, pyro, you name it. It all comes down to your level of play. Since you are still fairly new i would suggest your standard PU condi build, it has a very low learning curve with great success. Once you have grasped the concept of a mesmer, i would suggest going into spvp with a power build. This is what roaming usually ends up as 2 v 5 , 3 v 6 etc. In my opinion a power build is supperior then the PU build if you know how to play it. Once iv’e learned how to shatter iv’e never looked back. To be honest, I feel i survive better kittenter then a PU. Simply because it has forced me to learn what to avoid and how to avoid, with the satisfaction of 1 shotting or close to 1 shotting your enemies.

Gl in your future goals..

-Calicoe-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTIDQMRUGBE
this is a full spvp vid of one of my shatter mesmers (yes i have 2 vanity whore) there is no cut outs or montage. This is just a random hot join displaying what a shatter can do on a daily without even trying once you have grasped the idea.

Here is my latest WVW video with a buddy of mine..