Guild Wars 2

According to the latest notes they’ll get removed in HoT, we don’t know if they’ll compensate for this or how. What do you guys think about this change for mesmers in roaming and zerging? Posted here because mesmer is one of the popular options in small group roaming. Discuss!

I have no issue with them removing those buffs. I found them misplaced in the first place anyway.

Means nothing except I won’t have to waste 230 points to get the buffs that everyone else has.

Good riddance I say.

Now I just hope they give a full reset and not just for the last 5 ranks for those two.

Mesmer already has decent health pool so it shouldn’t matter too much. Guardian, ele and thief may have to adjust a bit by using some more vitality.

Good luck trying to play full zerk in blobs after that.

The extra health was really useful for havoc squads and roamers running zerker builds especially those with 11k health.

You can’t hit 11k hp on mesmer vizad lowest is 16k

Sadrien.3470:

You can’t hit 11k hp on mesmer vizad lowest is 16k

Base health of mesmers is 15,182 , but with the stat-changes, it’ll be ~1k Vitality (if I’m not mistaken), so it will change from 5,922 (+ 926 Vit) to 5,922 (+ 1000 Vit), and ’cos “10 points of health per point of Vitality”, that means 15,922, which is a bit below 16k

But true, it’s more than 11k, that’s for thieves/guards/eles.

Yeah, Gobbes makes a good point, a lot of classes will get an extra 750 health from the stats being removed from traits thing.

To me it also depends on where you’re playing. T8-9 and you may notice it initially but the zergs aren’t as absolute death as they are higher up. 2.5k health won’t save you if you’re in the wrong place and a venom well Zerg runs over you.

Roaming it will be noticeable but then everyone will not have that extra buffer so it’s not so bad. Can maybe one shot a thief where as before they escaped by the skin of their teef.

With the increase in power of certain traits across different classes (ie mental torment), I expect there will be a lot of one-shotting any glass cannons.

Curunen.8729:

With the increase in power of certain traits across different classes (ie mental torment), I expect there will be a lot of one-shotting any glass cannons.

On the other side a lot of classes are getting some things they had to spend 2-4 trait points on being made baseline so they have room for defensive traits. Without even mentioning the extra master and GM it would give.

apharma.3741:

Curunen.8729:

With the increase in power of certain traits across different classes (ie mental torment), I expect there will be a lot of one-shotting any glass cannons.

On the other side a lot of classes are getting some things they had to spend 2-4 trait points on being made baseline so they have room for defensive traits. Without even mentioning the extra master and GM it would give.

We’re not talking about defensive abilities or mechanics, 2500 HP is raw, pure buffer. It allows you to survive one more mistake. And it’s gone. So, you either drop some damage to get back that “buffer” or you learn to make less mistakes.

Menaka.5092:

We’re not talking about defensive abilities or mechanics, 2500 HP is raw, pure buffer. It allows you to survive one more mistake. And it’s gone. So, you either drop some damage to get back that “buffer” or you learn to make less mistakes.

I know, if Anet is smart about it they will bring the removal of applied fortitude with the trait changes which should ease people in. That way when we lose that buffer we also gain the ability to make up for it without changing your build much or at all.

Take the double ranged shatter in trait changes, illusionary elasticity and persona are now baseline, far reaching manipulations will be baseline. We get a better mental torment too and can pick empowered illusions at the same time as mental torment. DE is now GM and in the master and adept slot you now have room for something else. Blind on shatter, evasive mirror are great contenders for master level, adept I’m looking at desperate decoy.

Your own builds will get room for more defence or offence too, though as far as I can tell you do lose the distortion on kill which is a much heavier blow imo =S

Like I say, a lot of builds will now have room for defence through traits if only for the mandatory nature of picking one of 3 traits in that tier.

Menaka.5092:

We’re not talking about defensive abilities or mechanics, 2500 HP is raw, pure buffer. It allows you to survive one more mistake. And it’s gone. So, you either drop some damage to get back that “buffer” or you learn to make less mistakes.

OTOH, your opponent is losing the Guard Killer stat bonus.

lujate.5432:

Menaka.5092:

We’re not talking about defensive abilities or mechanics, 2500 HP is raw, pure buffer. It allows you to survive one more mistake. And it’s gone. So, you either drop some damage to get back that “buffer” or you learn to make less mistakes.

OTOH, your opponent is losing the Guard Killer stat bonus.

Yep. That’s 100 less power, about… 5% of the power in a zerk build? 2500 HP is over 15% of our total health in a full zerker build…

I think this is good news, if it is true (it is not totally clear if the buffs are completely removed or just made “baseline”). Most mesmers in WvW are solo or small scale roamers. Which means they are more likely to die more often. I find it painful to have to take a camp or kill a few sentinels before I feel comfortable killing people again. And it prevents my pvp friends to join me in my roaming trips, since they feel to much like they are at a disadvantage (ascended armor doesn’t help either, even if it’s just 5%, the psychological effect is there).

I’ve always disliked guard stacks, so I’m happy they’ll be gone. I think mesmer is probably the least affected by this change as our defense isn’t about stats as much as it’s about defensive cooldowns.

Menaka.5092:

lujate.5432:

Menaka.5092:

We’re not talking about defensive abilities or mechanics, 2500 HP is raw, pure buffer. It allows you to survive one more mistake. And it’s gone. So, you either drop some damage to get back that “buffer” or you learn to make less mistakes.

OTOH, your opponent is losing the Guard Killer stat bonus.

Yep. That’s 100 less power, about… 5% of the power in a zerk build? 2500 HP is over 15% of our total health in a full zerker build…

What logic is that? Why does the lost vitality not matter for your opponent? Don’t you deal damage to him too? You lose your buffer, he loses his buffer. Both of you can make less mistakes. BTW: On full zerker gear you will probably win over all offensive stats. If that is the case, you can go now for some more defensive gear and get your buffer back.

Also the percentages of power/malice and vitality loss are irrelevant. Relevant is the actual damage and HP loss.

TyPin.9860:

Menaka.5092:

lujate.5432:

Menaka.5092:

We’re not talking about defensive abilities or mechanics, 2500 HP is raw, pure buffer. It allows you to survive one more mistake. And it’s gone. So, you either drop some damage to get back that “buffer” or you learn to make less mistakes.

OTOH, your opponent is losing the Guard Killer stat bonus.

Yep. That’s 100 less power, about… 5% of the power in a zerk build? 2500 HP is over 15% of our total health in a full zerker build…

What logic is that? Why does the lost vitality not matter for your opponent? Don’t you deal damage to him too? You lose your buffer, he loses his buffer. Both of you can make less mistakes. BTW: On full zerker gear you will probably win over all offensive stats. If that is the case, you can go now for some more defensive gear and get your buffer back.

Also the percentages of power/malice and vitality loss are irrelevant. Relevant is the actual damage and HP loss.

By the numbers, we are losing way more defensive stats than offensive stats. You can’t possibly argue with that.

Sure, I can go get more defensive gear and lose more damage potential: when your whole group needs to do that (because you usually fight heavily outnumbered and you need the buffer), it’ll take more time to kill people, and that means you’ll need even more tank to survive for longer periods of time.

Without changing anything else (for example: we don’t know if the new borderlands will manage to split the blobs and we have no clue about how the other specialization will possibly change the meta), this single change will make life harder for small, organized groups, taking on blobs. But as I said, I want to play this before forming a final opinion.

This is seriously flawed logic.

Menaka.5092:

By the numbers, we are losing way more defensive stats than offensive stats. You can’t possibly argue with that.

Sure, but everybody is losing these defensive stats, so…

Menaka.5092:

it’ll take more time to kill people, and that means you’ll need even more tank to survive for longer periods of time.

So….it means that the people you’re killing will have significantly less defensive stats too. It means that you can make a choice. Option 1 is to keep your gear as is, and kill people even faster than you do now, and option 2 is to make your gear tankier to maintain your defense and kill people about the same speed as you do now.

Menaka.5092:

Without changing anything else (for example: we don’t know if the new borderlands will manage to split the blobs and we have no clue about how the other specialization will possibly change the meta), this single change will make life harder for small, organized groups, taking on blobs.

No, it won’t change anything at all with regards to group balance. The only thing changing is that you won’t have to go farm guards to get your stacks up before being at the same level as anyone else. With no changes except losing guard stacks, you’ll kill people faster than before, and you’ll be killed faster than before. If you make your gear tankier, you’ll be about the same defense as before and you’ll kill people about the same speed as before.

@Menaka:
Yeah Fay has addressed you response already. I wouldn’t have said anything different.