Guild Wars 2

Granted there were some changes to traits recently, I’m unable to post the build I have been using since celestial release, but this is the new tweaked build.

I personally would hate to fight this build while roaming as it has proven to be the perfect 1vX build to my playstyle, while it may not suit yours as much, I feel it’s still more efficient than the current perplex PU condition shatter spammer or power burst builds.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR7flknhG1YZawNNwtGLpGk5Ne+LIHwFCQZFWe3A-TliFAB8pEUS1f69IAYkyAAeAAUp07MdAvpZYl9HS4iAQKAwGWB-w

playstyle:

Start by channeling scepter 3, it has 5k direct damage + initiates a fight, after channeling throw up your scepter block and run towards the enemy, once a skill is blocked, dodge and torch 4 + 5.

Switch to great sword, use #5 to knockback the enemy into a position that favours you, they will expect your #4 so don’t use it strait away, try to use skill #3 followed up by #2 then skill #4 for the berserker.

Rinse + repeat.

DO NOT SHATTER UNLESS YOU ARE INTERRUPTING A SKILL OR NEED THE DISTORTION: The reason for this is thief aswell, while fighting a thief your clones will remain active, use that time to put your back to a clone rendering Backstabs nearly useless depending on thief skill level.

The build provides a lot of reflection via dodges and Manipulation skills, also provides full health heals and enough sustain to withstand a burst from any class.

Weapons: GS is zerker, scepter + torch are rabid.
The food is super important too.

Hope you guys enjoy!

Seems to me that celestial is a bit of a waste in this build. I think it would be much better with a mix of stats, something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR7flknhG1YZawNNwtGLpGk5Ne+LIHwFCQZFWe3A-TFiFABppbo3jAAAPAg9UCez+DMq+jSK/S4iAQKAwGWB-w

Just tossed that together really quick, could definitely be optimized better. Basically you’re wasting healing power because you don’t use it well at all. Additionally, hoelbrak runes aren’t a good choice, because you have no might generation that really benefits from them (might from imagined burden is such low duration that you may as well not even bother).

Fay.2357:

Seems to me that celestial is a bit of a waste in this build. I think it would be much better with a mix of stats, something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR7flknhG1YZawNNwtGLpGk5Ne+LIHwFCQZFWe3A-TFiFABppbo3jAAAPAg9UCez+DMq+jSK/S4iAQKAwGWB-w

Just tossed that together really quick, could definitely be optimized better. Basically you’re wasting healing power because you don’t use it well at all. Additionally, hoelbrak runes aren’t a good choice, because you have no might generation that really benefits from them (might from imagined burden is such low duration that you may as well not even bother).

The healing power is what gives a full health heal, the hoelbrak runes helps maintain 10+ might stacks, if you bothered to look at the build before criticizing it you would have seen spiritial surge is the source of might and can easily attain 10 stacks minimum ontop of the -% condi duration which the build lacks outside of arcane thievery…

You said so yourself that you quickly slapped together your build with 0 optimization and you try comparing it with someone who has run the build optimizations since the release of celestial.

I can see strait away in your build that it lacks nearly 400 power, 25% decrease in critical damage, 150 decrease in armor, decreased health by 2500 and -10% applied condition duration for a total gain of 5% crit chance and 200 condition damage.

Now had you have looked at the build before you tried criticizing it, I would have been more open to your suggestions. (which by the way I wasn’t looking for, I posted this build due to frustrations of enemy mesmer roamers not presenting a challenging fight as the build can tank power builds while transferring condition builds back onto the caster, which we all know is 10+ torment, 10+ confusion and 20+ vuln with your own vuln applied maintains a 25% damage increase)

Thanks anyway.

sephiroth.4217:

The healing power is what gives a full health heal,

You have 449 healing power. Assuming a heal with 3 illusions, that adds 583.7 health to ether feast. Considering the base 3 illusion heal is 7480, I highly doubt that’s going to make or break your healing ability.

sephiroth.4217:

the hoelbrak runes helps maintain 10+ might stacks, if you bothered to look at the build before criticizing it you would have seen spiritial surge is the source of might and can easily attain 10 stacks minimum

Please, don’t make me laugh. Trying to tell me that I didn’t look at your build when I explicitly discussed the might stacks from imagined burden in my response. Somebody has a comprehension issue, and it’s not me.

Now, hoelbrak runes at 30% might duration. This equates to 1.5s on the spatial surge. Considering the amount of time it takes to actually execute each gs attack, this is a really tiny gain; a gain potentially better applied elsewhere. That being said…

sephiroth.4217:

ontop of the -% condi duration which the build lacks outside of arcane thievery…

This is a legitimate concern. The -duration from hoelbrak isn’t going to solve condie issues though. Personally, when I run power shatter with PU, I don’t take any condition removal at all. This certainly gets me in trouble now and then, but it is possible to do effectively. If you’re worried about conditions, I’d recommend taking the condition removal mantra, especially considering that you’re running with PU, which gives you the time necessary to recharge it as you go.

This removes any boon stripping ability, not that 3 boons on a 36s cooldown is notable exactly. Personally I’d fix this by swapping to shattered concentration over furious interruption. I recognize that this isn’t a primary shatter build, but it gives you the ability to pump out a couple shatters for boon stripping if necessary. Since you really don’t have any good access to interrupts in this build, FI isn’t really doing you a whole lot of good either.

sephiroth.4217:

I can see strait away in your build that it lacks nearly 400 power, 25% decrease in critical damage, 150 decrease in armor, decreased health by 2500 and -10% applied condition duration for a total gain of 5% crit chance and 200 condition damage.

This is some…unique math. Lets do a quick sanity check, shall we? Just to be clear, cherrypicking from various weaponsets to do your math is…questionable at best.

My version has 292 less power, 34 less armor (150, really?), 2300 less hp, and 35% lower critical damage. Not entirely sure what you’re going on about with applied condition duration. It gains 9.9% crit chance, and 687 condition damage (200, really?). These numbers are based on your gs set. if swapping to sc/t, it’ll have much closer power and condition damage, and slightly farther toughness, etc.

Now, the reason I mentioned that it’s non-optimal…is because it’s not optimal. The issue is that your chosen build has a lot of non-optimal bits too, which is why I tossed something together as an example. Notably, your condition damage is really low, so you’re not going to be able to pressure anyone with that. Your build is heavily weighted towards power damage. There’s nothing wrong with this certainly, but if you’re going for a bit of a hybrid build, I prefer to try and balance it better.

By the way, a couple nits to pick…

sephiroth.4217:

use that time to put your back to a clone rendering Backstabs nearly useless depending on thief skill level.

The type of thief that would miss a backstab because you’ve backed up to a clone will probably also accidentally hss off a nearby cliff. That’s not exactly the sort of strategy you should be trying for. Standing against a clone against a thief that has even the slightest idea of what they’re doing is simply providing a perfectly static and easily hit target for their backstab. I would definitely not recommend doing that.

sephiroth.4217:

also provides full health heals

I commend your use of hyperbole, but healing for 8055 maximum when you have 20412 hp is just a little bit less than a “full health heal”.

I’m also curious. You’ve mentioned that this is a good 1vX build, but your playstyle guide shows you playing as more of a phantasm-based build. Phantasm builds are typically (read: always, since the beginning of time) incredibly poor at doing 1vX due to their inability to apply pressure when your phantasms keep getting cleaved down. They’re also typically great 1v1ing builds, sometimes even great 1v2, and always are good as a +1 to a fight. What sort of 1vX fights have you had success at actually killing people in?

Fay.2357:

4so typically great 1v1ing builds, sometimes even great 1v2, and always are good as a +1 to a fight. What sort of 1vX fights have you had success at actually killing people in?

(If it comes out messed up I had to snip a lot of the post)

There is so much nit picking I don’t know where to begin.

Please keep in mind I mentioned at the start that my build is not catered to everyones playstyle, I can see some points you made that make perfect sense on paper, but in the heat of practicality it’s a different scenario all together.

I rechecked your build and stats, you were kinda right about my stat difference I will admit, I had to change weapons to reevaluate it as one set is zerker and one set is rabid, but there is still a significant stat difference, you’re also missing 10% condi duration due to a sigil on the torch.

The build I have put together does well against a maximum of 4-5 enemies(I am a solo roamer and have always been a solo roamer) , most of the build is aimed at the mentality of enemy players who are used to certain rotations and skills from mesmers, so applying pressure a different way has earned me quite a few whispers along the lines of “what sorta build is that, how did you do that, where does your damage come from” and so on.

The full health heal may be bug, on paper you would be correct, but using it ingame at 10% health with 2 clones out has provided a full heal without fail everytime.

The only true counter to the build is a D/D thief smart enough to CnD off your clones, but thats where you started using shatters and a different rotation to what I have posted.

As for the backstab comment, you would be surprised what stacking ontop of your clone will do, as a thief will target you in haste before his stealth runs out and if he has the clone targeted then you avoided a 9k backstab which happens roughly 70% of the time.

Your input is appreciated, but like I stated before I have optimized this build for a playstyle not really used by most and my only intention is to share it in hopes of seeing more unique builds on the field to fight rather than typical META builds.

I am a greedy player when it comes to kills, even when I get zerged I will still fight and try my best to kill someone with me (refer to pic)

sephiroth.4217:

As for the backstab comment, you would be surprised what stacking ontop of your clone will do, as a thief will target you in haste before his stealth runs out and if he has the clone targeted then avoided a 9k backstab which happens roughly 70% of the time.

Hmm. I usually target through “target nearest” then tabbing to real one while running to enemy for backstab. I think I never missed real mesmer. Though stacking mb good sometimes because of more shatter fodder when thief opens on you.
Btw how do you utilize furious interruption?

Mak.2657:

sephiroth.4217:

As for the backstab comment, you would be surprised what stacking ontop of your clone will do, as a thief will target you in haste before his stealth runs out and if he has the clone targeted then avoided a 9k backstab which happens roughly 70% of the time.

Hmm. I usually target through “target nearest” then tabbing to real one while running to enemy for backstab. Though stacking mb good because of more shatter fodder when thief opens on you.
Btw how do you utilize furious interruption?

Ahhh you would be the 30% who would be able to hit me, people who target by clicking are the ones usually to mess up.

as for furious interruption, I mostly use it before I stomp to ensure a quick finish or if I have scepter out for a quick spam on the auto attacks or scepter #3 skill, applying torment and a clone who could also apply it… It is VERY situational that skill and requires the right timing.

(also forgive me for not knowing the skill abilities, my memory is not what it used to be)

Interesting idea with stomping but I would still prefer shattered concentration for myself as been suggested. Tried evasive mirror too but it conflicts with my reflexes when outnumbered – dodge into stealth. If got hit by channeled attack = insta reveal. Though you have another experience probably.

I think Pyro and sephiroth are on a different optimization wavelength.

Pyro is optimizing for superior play.
sephiroth is optimizing for WvW roaming success.

In Pyro’s perspective, the best thing to do is play like you’re facing a great player, and you’ll curbstomp the noobs as a side effect.

In sephiroth’s perspective, you’re actively targeting the largest group of WvW players and attempting to kill more of them.

The same thing happens in chess. There’s a couple early-game tricks that most kids learn early that let them checkmate an inexperienced opponent really fast. No good player would fall for the 4-move checkmate, and trying it on a good player is a good way to lose the game.
It’s not just a trick for total noobs, though! There’s a sequence called Légal’s Mate (named after Sire de Légal, who pulled it on one of the top 5 players in the world in the late 1900s), that sacrifices your queen early for a forced checkmate if the opponent takes the bait. I actually pulled it off in a tournament, once, against a player I shouldn’t have stood a chance against.
An opponent who fails to take the bait can easily take advantage of the situation to gain the advantage.

The point, though, is that against people below a certain skill level, the strategy is exceptionally effective.
If your goal is to kill the most people, then roflstomping 80%-90% of the WvW population at the expense of being stomped by the other 10%-20% might actually make sense.
We can add to that the fact that some proportion of the 10-20% would be able to beat sephiroth no matter what his build, so really he’s losing out on less than that.
Furthermore, some fraction of the 80-90% would have beat Sephiroth if he weren’t coming at them sideways like this, so in a way he’s trading wins against one population for wins against another.

I wonder, though, if that percent of players you might have otherwise beat would have been more important to beat? The better players are the more dangerous in general, and the more likely to cost your side something in the long run. Is your server better served by the noob-stomper build, or the competitive build?

AlphatheWhite.9351:

I think Pyro and sephiroth are on a different optimization wavelength.

Pyro is optimizing for superior play.
sephiroth is optimizing for WvW roaming success.

In Pyro’s perspective, the best thing to do is play like you’re facing a great player, and you’ll curbstomp the noobs as a side effect.

In sephiroth’s perspective, you’re actively targeting the largest group of WvW players and attempting to kill more of them.

The same thing happens in chess. There’s a couple early-game tricks that most kids learn early that let them checkmate an inexperienced opponent really fast. No good player would fall for the 4-move checkmate, and trying it on a good player is a good way to lose the game.
It’s not just a trick for total noobs, though! There’s a sequence called Légal’s Mate (named after Sire de Légal, who pulled it on one of the top 5 players in the world in the late 1900s), that sacrifices your queen early for a forced checkmate if the opponent takes the bait. I actually pulled it off in a tournament, once, against a player I shouldn’t have stood a chance against.
An opponent who fails to take the bait can easily take advantage of the situation to gain the advantage.

The point, though, is that against people below a certain skill level, the strategy is exceptionally effective.
If your goal is to kill the most people, then roflstomping 80%-90% of the WvW population at the expense of being stomped by the other 10%-20% might actually make sense.
We can add to that the fact that some proportion of the 10-20% would be able to beat sephiroth no matter what his build, so really he’s losing out on less than that.
Furthermore, some fraction of the 80-90% would have beat Sephiroth if he weren’t coming at them sideways like this, so in a way he’s trading wins against one population for wins against another.

I wonder, though, if that percent of players you might have otherwise beat would have been more important to beat? The better players are the more dangerous in general, and the more likely to cost your side something in the long run. Is your server better served by the noob-stomper build, or the competitive build?

In chess, we are always taught to “play the board and not the man”. However, it’s a fact that psychological cues play a huge role in real games. Lasker, one of the most dominant players of his time (granted, that was before chess theory was fully fleshed out and he never got to face Morphy, and there was more of the swashbuckling type of play) used to be famous for playing to his opponent’s psychological weakness, whereas other players like Fischer were all about the bare board situation.

The difference IMHO between chess and GW2 is adrenalin. Now I’m not saying there’s no adrenalin in a chess match. There have been times when I could swear I couldn’t feel my feet and I had to pretend to look bored and uninterested when I’ve just set a trap for my opponent, but in reality my hands were white. But at the end of the day, you have a lot of time to think (usually) and chess is all about the mind. You can control your phsyological reflexes with practice or by faking normalcy.

An MMO like GW2 however is all about reflexes, split second decision making…and also about lack of information. Until you engage a player, you have no idea what build they’re running, or whether they’re good or not. Very different from chess which is a game of perfect information and most of the time you have complete access to what the other guy’s style he likes, which openings, blah blah.

This makes it tough to apply the principles of chess to GW2. Yes, there are quite a lot of things we can learn from chess, but that’s because we can apply so much of chess to life in general. My own mentality of playing GW2 is low risk, attrition, and preparation. My chess style reflects this – I prefer safe openings, closed board positions, and if I have an advantage, I prefer to slowly grind the opponent down safely. Unlike others who in Foefire try and kill lord even when their team is winning, when they could simple play defensive and ride out their advantage.

But to the broader point, there are lots of chess moves that provide an opportunity for the other player to make a mistake without sacrificing your own position. The same could be true of GW2 play. Like throwing up a scepter #2 hoping your opponent will hit you, but you don’t really lose much if you plan to simply swap weapons next and you can always blind anyway if you don’t get struck. And because GW2 is so action packed and fast paced, even the best players make reflexive decisions that might not be logically the best.