Guild Wars 2

There have been a few threads recently that have touched on this topic, but I feel it should be addressed directly.

As I see it, zerging falls into two categories:
1. Large disorganized spread out fights (in other words, non blobs)
2. Blobbing-where the friendly players fight all stacked right on top of each other

Next, what are we trying to accomplish? I think the objectives are:
1. Keep the good guys alive
2. Make the bad guys dead

I guess the question to discuss is what builds/tactics to use in the two types of zergs to best accomplish the two objectives.

Here’s my 2 cents.
Different servers have different WvW experiences.
My server, Kaineng, tends to follow your 2 categories.
I’ve tried condition, shatter, phantasm builds. Even healing medic builds.
In the end, I think it is all about mobility and hitting hard.
With a big enough zerg, rezzing becomes important, but really a mesmer helps more by dealing damage (although medic work with feedback bubble can be done and is way fun).
Chasing runners from a battle is a tossup between ileap/swap and BF or chasing with the GS AA and crippling them with the iBerserker.
IBerserkers pretty good aoe, even the bouncing blade attack too.
Chaos Storm for your leaping zerg-mates just looks awesome with all the little bubbles. (Although I question how helpful Chaos Armor actually is.)
Soldier armor to stay alive. I don’t usually die from conditions as long as I’m around other zerg-mates.

So a power build, with great mobility, allows the Mesmer to bounce around, hammering targets while staying alive. Does that answer your two objectives?

I run this:
GS/Staff (Berserkers), Soldier Armor, Sup. Runes Traveller, Berserker: Amulet, rings, Accessories.
Trait 30,20,20 (Trait GS, Staff, Trait both blink distance and recharge, +15% dmg, DE, Clone cripple.)
Utility Blink, decoy, veil/portal/revive, Time Warp or Mass invis.

Reflections (feedback with focus and wardens feedback) are another way to go, they help protect your zerg while doing damage to the enemy zerg. I run with greatsword and feedback mostly for tagging but it also provides decent damage back on the zerg and snaring for the warriors/guards to catch targets easier.

I swap feedback for portal when I need to and always have veil to invis the zerg when charging in. Blink never leaves my bar because I love it that much and I usually run mass invis because I have PU in my build. I like my build because it’s flexible enough that I get most of the things I would want solo or zerg, without having to change specs, and it’s tanky enough to survive most of the time.

While I don’t get massive amount of bags like a warrior/guardian, I do get a tolerable amount while providing enough support and damage to my guild group or zerg (I imagine if I needed more badges for gear it might annoy me more). Bottom line is I feel useful and they always seem happy I’m there because of my support abilities, survival, and damage.

Though it could be they are just pretending to be nice…

I would not classify zerging as a large disorganized fight. That may be the end result when the two opposing commanders go down, but it’s not how I define a zerg. A zerg in WvW is a coordinated group of players that’s larger than one party.

I’m not sure what blobbing is… unless you’re trying to define the behavior of when multiple zergs engage an existing battle. For instance, Blue could have a zerg of 20 and another of 30. The zerg of 30 engages a zerg of 40 from Red. Blue’s 20man zerg “blobs” into the 30man to sustain the battle. Typically though, this is a very coordinated effort on Teamspeak depending on the server you are on.

What are we, the mesmer, trying to accomplish? We don’t keep people alive in ZvZ and we tyipcally should not be spiking much either. We are range damage dealers, manipulators (boon rips and reflection), and utility providers.

As for what builds to use, I suggest soley using power builds and deriving the rest based on your playstyle. Also, as I’ve mentioned in previous threads, greatsword and null field is the way to go in ZvZ. In fact, every class should always consider boon rips when crafting a WvW build since they are a fundamental key to breaking well coordinated zergs.

By blobbing, I mean the tactic that tries stack as many players as possible right on top of each other. These blobs of players then try to roll through the enemy, kind of like a bowling ball.

“Disorganized” might not have been the best word. Maybe just more spread out.

Best mesmer accomplishments are boon/condition control (Null Field, shatter trait and #3 GS), reflects (Feedback and traited focus), and DPS (iZerker, #5 Staff, reflects, GS and sword autoattacks…).
I also recommend to build pure power when facing servers with blobs and big zergs, while being a more condition mesmer when roaming and in small groups.

These are examples of what we call blob, a huge zerg with all people in the same place (+40 people, but normally 60 to 80):

Ansau.7326:

These are examples of what we call blob, a huge zerg with all people in the same place (+40 people, but normally 60 to 80):

stop scaring them with EU blobs :°)

I don’t know much about US wvw, but that’s a pretty common sight on EU servers, in particular during resets.

lujate.5432:

There have been a few threads recently that have touched on this topic, but I feel it should be addressed directly.

As I see it, zerging falls into two categories:
1. Large disorganized spread out fights (in other words, non blobs)
2. Blobbing-where the friendly players fight all stacked right on top of each other

Next, what are we trying to accomplish? I think the objectives are:
1. Keep the good guys alive
2. Make the bad guys dead

I guess the question to discuss is what builds/tactics to use in the two types of zergs to best accomplish the two objectives.

From my PoV;
Guildwars2

• Offically
  - Competitive/Challenge
  o Tpvp
  - Fun
  o all modes/submodes; WvW, PvE, Spvp

• Unoffical
  - Competitive/Challenge
  o GvG
  ———————————————————

blob=mass
blobing=zerging
- organized or not, too many in one place

-For Competitive Tpvp player more than 5 players in 1 place can be blobbing
or For wvw player more than 20 or 40
there is no rule for that

PUG,

• Pick Up Group.
  Refers to a party assembled from the random pool of available players in Open World or LFG system, as opposed to a coordinated Guild excursion or friends setting up an adventure together. It is sometimes used in a negative connotation.
  or,
• Person Unaffiliated with Guild.
  PUGs are easy to find and assemble, but will usually be of lesser quality compared to organized groups, the main reason being lack of communication and familiarity with each other’s style. PUGs are most convenient for quickly completing a quest or mission and are least suitable for areas of the game that require a great amount of synchronization such as Tpvp, GvG
  http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/PUG

As Describing WvW,
Guide,
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/The-Basics-of-WvW-guide-and-more/first#post2451393

WvW,basicly,

Zerging,
- large scaled numbered
Goals major,

• Farming
• Points (WvW basics rules)
  o include PUGs,

Guild Raids,
- Large scaled (example our offical guild raids, just include wvw core members [who are familiar each other play style], no pve core players, no upskilled, no training, regular builds, comminucation mandatory, no slack, trying to be best efficient, sync)
Goals,

• Challenge ( vs More numbered zergs, or other guild raids)
  o no Pugs

GvG Matches,
- large scaled, includes same rules, ranking
Goals,

• Rank
  o No Pugs

Roaming,
- Small scaled
Goals,

• Farming
• Points,
• Minor missions
  duels, scouting, team pvp, …

so there are different/various groups, and objectives
farming
achivements
influence, popularism
ranking
server points
training
trolling,slacking

for Fun or Competitive

killing people is just tactic.. :P
and ofc there re some group orientations as meta is heavy melee train.. (mobile sticked large groups)

Wow Azo, that’s a comprehensive response. But specifically regarding Mesmers, how do you think they fit into zergs?

Helios.3598:

I’m not sure what blobbing is.

BG only has blobs, so there isn’t a distinction. In lower tiers, there are large “spread out” fights as well. They behave more like trenches, where two large groups shoot at each other (feedback fodder ^0^).

===

I also use GS/Staff in large groups. PTV armor, zerker everyting else. Sigil of stamina/bloodlust. Melandru runes. Anti condi food+oil. 20/20/30 with confusing enchantments, phantasmal fury (may change after update), deceptive evasion, the 2 clone deaths, and the 2 interrupts (PU if veil).

Utilities are mantra of concentration (hate hate hate it but only way to get stab), null field and veil (if against melee train) and feedback (against shooters), TW.

Finally, not only Roaming talking in here ….
I’ve been working on this Staff Mantra/Glamour build, can anyone give me some feedback? [I’m new to Mesmers]
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW8dl4zSpHVTsGa9IhJFBH5neAdnz8SKi9tB-j0CBYgAoLRmcAggAmABK7pIasFTFRjVxATdaR16XA+DMa1SBYxYA-w

SrebX.6498:

Finally, not only Roaming talking in here ….
I’ve been working on this Staff Mantra/Glamour build, can anyone give me some feedback? [I’m new to Mesmers]
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW8dl4zSpHVTsGa9IhJFBH5neAdnz8SKi9tB-j0CBYgAoLRmcAggAmABK7pIasFTFRjVxATdaR16XA+DMa1SBYxYA-w

I’m no expert, but my first question would be:
-Is Restorative Mantras worth it, or would Temporal Enchanter or Warden’s Feedback be better?

lujate.5432:

Wow Azo, that’s a comprehensive response. But specifically regarding Mesmers, how do you think they fit into zergs?

hey lujate, as i said there is 2 main spec,

• challenge
• fun

zerging,

• with pugs (we can say blobbing)
• with out pugs (as guild raids, or can be small scaled number groups as roaming)

- zerging, is making advantage via numbers,
for faster, easier mission accomplish..

game mechanic,

• instead traditional mmo`s gw2 is not as holy trinity ( healer, tank, dps spec)
  is something as
  - HHHTDD
  - DDDTHH
  - TTTDDHH etc,,

gw2, (offically) Competitive area is

• TPvP
  - game mechanic is, for 5 players teams, and capturing (not just deathmatch)

so WvW, is fun side of game..

however GvG.. is another competitive area( unoffical, not supported via anet)[obsidan JP ?..]
————————————————————
mesmer, imo is something like celestial stats, have everything but nothing to make role..
in competitive zergs figths.. in overall efficent..
he is not better in make role rather than any other classes to be desirable,

• ok for veil, portal 1 or 2 mesmer

meta,

• same..
  —————————————————————-
  Why would u take mesmer in your competitive, team oriented group?
• for veil and portal,
  its the best efficient..
  because,
• veil, portal unique skills that other classes doesnt have..
• shatter, phantasm useless cuz of mechanic
• there is no restriction to selecting various classes, making parties

ofc i am talking about challenge/best efficient side..
for farming/tagging spec
for fun,
its different..
—————————————————————

lujate.5432:

SrebX.6498:

Finally, not only Roaming talking in here ….
I’ve been working on this Staff Mantra/Glamour build, can anyone give me some feedback? [I’m new to Mesmers]
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW8dl4zSpHVTsGa9IhJFBH5neAdnz8SKi9tB-j0CBYgAoLRmcAggAmABK7pIasFTFRjVxATdaR16XA+DMa1SBYxYA-w

I’m no expert, but my first question would be:
-Is Restorative Mantras worth it, or would Temporal Enchanter or Warden’s Feedback be better?

I intend to use Staff mostly, so it’s nay on Warden’s Feedback.
As for Temporal Enchanter, I’m not sure as well xP . I took Restorative Mantras because I only have 2 charges, so I recast Mantras quiet often…

I just realized I haven’t posted my own thoughts… my bad.

For the first year, I just played my PvE phantasm build (Sw/Sw & GS). I was on a tier 8 server, so blobs were things of myth and legend. For other zergs, my DPS was fine and survivability was excellent. All I offered the team though, was DPS and the occasional TW.

I am now running a PU build modified slightly to work better in larger fights.
-Feedback/Portal (or Veil, but that’s very rare)
-Blink
-Stability mantra
-Mass Invis
In non-blob fights, I think my DPS and survivability are just as good as before, but I can now offer more to the team.
I struggle in blobs. Mesmer survivability, at least for me, comes from mobility. Group tanking in a blob is a bad place for me to be. I’ve started trying to work around our blob, rather than being inside it.

I use two builds, one for front line, one for back line.

Front line: Full Dire gear (yes, dire!), 10/20/20/20/0, sword/focus & staff, sigils of stamina (these are important). This is a front line condition clone spammer with near constant dodge and lots of reflect and cc. You get lots of bags, too.

Back line: Full Zerker, standard 20/20/30/0/0, greatsword & sword/torch. High mobility, support, and dps with lots of PU invis for escapes.

I can post builds if anyone wants.