Guild Wars 2

hi all, I do not play for 6 months and now I’m back in the game, I would like to know what are the valid mesmer build for the moment. I only play www raid

there is no real meta build, as mes is sorta only there to veil the zerg i use osicats power pu build atm(mine uses differnet armor and traits though), but this one at least lets u survive the cc spam meta a little better). we dont really have much aoe lesft after the nerfs. some people say that shatter could have some effect, but atm we are not in a great spot in wvw at all.

The meta for WvW is PU, plain and simple. Doesnt matter if its power or condition. Easily has the most survivable builds and the only thing that can reliably counter perma-stealth thieves, ie 90% of the roamers you’ll meet. With the upcoming nerf to vigor and DE its going to be even more meta, unless they secretly nerf PU as well.

That said, its not necessarily the best build for guild raids (it doesnt matter in zerg raids). Boonshatter is still the go-to support build afaik.

Stealth is the meta for mesmers in WvW, and the simple reason is because it’s the only means of survival. With the amount of dps warriors can dish out, at the speeds they move, and with the number of hard hitting conditions that can be instantly applied to you, we just don’t have the ability to sustain ourselves outside of stealth. PU is super important though, because when we do pop out of stealth, the protection it’s granted gives us what we need to survive in the open. All that aside, when building for as much condi removal as you can, you’re likely taking the torch anyway, and with the extra stealth you’re getting the most out of it.

This is the thing though, PU + stealth is not so much the meta as it is a basic survival reaction. You either go in with it and live, or go in without it and die.

There are a couple zerg builds if that’s what you’re after however.

@Sibe,

Can recommend my own PU build, Hidden Cat. It’s a power based might stacking build who can be manipulated after situation.

Base setup is GS + s/t but work with scepter/t s/s or scepter/t + s/pistol and even s/t -staff.

The GS setup work well in tea play aswell as it give you range and burst who can be used on a marked target without need 2 Zerg dive.

In roaming the mobility with 1200 blink take you out of effective range for many classes, a necro who get close can be blinked away from out of cc range, a Mesmer fighting you and you can blink + dodge out of phantasm summoning range to give the annoying “target out of range” waste of a cast etc. It also make a superb catcher of running low hp targets as you blink 1200’ cripple with GS and immobilize with sword.

Dmg if extremely gear based thu, ATM I reach over 2650 power fully stacked with food, stone and 5 guards killed, with might stacking and vuln up I seen crits on full 80,s (glass cannon off) for over 9 k, and on undervlvd targets 10k +.

Vid of play style:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=m-ch-fea&v=uixApYC6AqM

Build etc can be found in my thread/guide. Top sticky on the forum.

/Osicat

oh thank you all, and tnx Osicat, i will try this build

personally for osicats build id say while its rather decent it doesnt offer enough tougness to be used for larger fights, and due to this you’ll find yourself being unable to stack with your teammates when fighting larger amounts of opponents say 5vs10 its only good when you are fighting an equal team or a team of lower numbers

@osicat have you considered the offhand sword with your build, even with loosing the prestige you keep high boons from stealth, but improve the dps by far, id recommend the offhand sword compared to the torch for fighting thieves as well, the counter is invaluable

I play gc shatter with GS/sw-torch and I have no problem surviving in wvw.

I enjoy Power-PU builds as well. I change some traits from what Osicat has, but the core distribution and key traits are pretty much the same for most PU builds. Definitely a good one.

Boon shatter can be great as well, especially paired with GS. Popping GS 4-2-F1-3 strips 3 boons in an AoE along with a nice chunk damage from shatter, mind stab, and iZerker. While shatter’s strength is diminished in large ZvZ fights, you’ll still land a few shatters here and there.

It’s a very boon-filled game right now, however. It’s pretty common for me to see the melee frontline with a nearly full stack of boons re-applied every few seconds. It’s always disheartening to land a full boon-strip combo on a player only to see all the boons get re-applied a second later.

Redcobra, I run 2550 armor in raids and I’m totally fine, so armor of Hidden Cat should be also finein terms of armor. 2600-2650 would be good numbers for general pug zerg.

But Hidden Cat has other 2 main problems in zergs (+20vs+20):
First is your role. Hidden Cat is a build meant to do a lot of pressure on a single target while having a lot of survivability, That’s why it excels on small scale fights. But in zergs, single target DPS has no impact and when you see the aoe DPS of eles or necros, you realize even iZerker has meh aoe damage.

Second is the low health pool. 16,8k base health is very low and with no Condition mitigate, you’re fresh meat for conditions. Around 20k and lemongrass is enough to make them not a thread.

Ansau.7326:

Redcobra, I run 2550 armor in raids and I’m totally fine, so armor of Hidden Cat should be also finein terms of armor. 2600-2650 would be good numbers for general pug zerg.

But Hidden Cat has other 2 main problems in zergs (+20vs+20):
First is your role. Hidden Cat is a build meant to do a lot of pressure on a single target while having a lot of survivability, That’s why it excels on small scale fights. But in zergs, single target DPS has no impact and when you see the aoe DPS of eles or necros, you realize even iZerker has meh aoe damage.

Second is the low health pool. 16,8k base health is very low and with no Condition mitigate, you’re fresh meat for conditions. Around 20k and lemongrass is enough to make them not a thread.

yes but im not impressed with builds that are designed to play in groups that are either the same size or lower its possible to get better stats, and im pretty sure that that build wouldnt not survive in a 5v10, at that level ratio 1:2 stacking becomes mandotoy which isnt possible on his build, its not a bad build i was just stating the weak points,

currently i run a power PU mantra build with all stacks i have 3.2k armor (3.8k when channelling mantra) 23k HP 3.1k power 42% crit chance and 55% crit damage, it fills a healer roll when stacking with two mantras 4 condition removes every 10 secs and has blink and decoy. i dont understand how someone could lose so much stats

A mesmer with 3,2k of armor, what a waste of time and stats. Even guards and warriors have less toughness… Also, please, next time don’t put ideal stats. I also reach tons of stats with every buff possible at maximum.

BTW, what is the point to make a tanky build to face 5vs10? If those 10 are good, there’s no build or strategy that could work. If those 10 are bad, only matters the player skill…

PD: He’s asking for a build for raids. I’ve noted that you play on one of the top down servers of EU, and your server faces the same enemies most of the times. Don’t take this badly, but I won’t take your experience as exportable to other players.

@Red cobra. I kinda sure it al come down to play style. In roaming I usually don’t run in bigger team than 6-8 max, we al play weary mobile species with high burst and do not run in a tight pack ala mele train, tbh often we so far from each other to man area buffs don’t give a lot of benefits, we shatter and cluster, clear condos and spread again, move and pick a target off. This is the roaming style I prefere. Sadly there is not a lot of room for some classes in this game style, often a friendly start follow us as he/she like the pile of corpses, only to die as soon as we al stealth and blink jump,swoooch away.

In bigger team fights aka Zerg, I play like the thiefs, not really staying in the cluster. I do, using feedback instead of decoy and benefit from our teams defenses, get additional toughness due to team buffs and use preci/ toughness food bumping my base toughness to 1900~ but in general I avoid this kind of fights as I find it rather boring to run in big pack spam auto attacks, if that is what I wanted I would rolled a warrior.

If me and my team find a Zerg vs Zerg we do not jump into the friendly ranks line up as meat. We stealth and start pick ppl of in the back, I find this far more fun.

/Osicat

Osicat.4139:

@Red cobra. I kinda sure it al come down to play style. In roaming I usually don’t run in bigger team than 6-8 max, we al play weary mobile species with high burst and do not run in a tight pack ala mele train, tbh often we so far from each other to man area buffs don’t give a lot of benefits, we shatter and cluster, clear condos and spread again, move and pick a target off. This is the roaming style I prefere. Sadly there is not a lot of room for some classes in this game style, often a friendly start follow us as he/she like the pile of corpses, only to die as soon as we al stealth and blink jump,swoooch away.

In bigger team fights aka Zerg, I play like the thiefs, not really staying in the cluster. I do, using feedback instead of decoy and benefit from our teams defenses, get additional toughness due to team buffs and use preci/ toughness food bumping my base toughness to 1900~ but in general I avoid this kind of fights as I find it rather boring to run in big pack spam auto attacks, if that is what I wanted I would rolled a warrior.

If me and my team find a Zerg vs Zerg we do not jump into the friendly ranks line up as meat. We stealth and start pick ppl of in the back, I find this far more fun.

/Osicat

That’s usually what I aim for in a power build as well. Fewer bags, less big numbers, but you can have a HUGE impact on a fight. Finishing someone off rallies team mates. Back-line players are often VERY dangerous elementalists/necromancers stocked up on high damage/low survival gear. Nullifying them is a great way to help your team out.

And your point about “playing like a thief” is very appropriate. We’ll always envy big AoE classes like Ele/Necro/Guard/War, but that’s just not what our toolkit is strong for. We’re much closer to thieves/rangers with a little splash of magic.

@Osicat,
Thanks for the response, i agree with you at every turn, the build however isnt suited for what the OP really asked for. and id reccomend osicat that you try out a more structured 5man party, ive seen your videos, youre decent so i dont see no reason why you cant pull it off, the mesmer brings powerful heals to the table while being able to swap to those key utilities when needed, i dont zerg -_- like a certain someone said, i get my enjoyment and always have out of fighting and beating oponents when you are severely outnumbered as such in Fissure of Woe

@Ansau,
My server doesnt make a difference to player skill, ive guested in other servers before, and i was referring to stacks from guards and bloodlust (nothing else) so dont over exaggerate, also i fight in a 5 man group not a zerg like you said, the healing i can put out in mantras with stability from hallowed ground is extremely powerful to the team and we do this while having a larger group blasting down on us,
my server tends to be a pve server however due to this the small groups that do play world vs world have been forced into having to party up and constantly fight larger numbers so i think that distinctly gives me a unique reason why my info is better than yours, someone from a server where the meta is to jump in the nearest zerg.

@kelthien,

while i agree that we dont do nowhere near the same aoe damage than other classes theres a good aoe burst you can do on a stacking guild/group, using focus and GS and zerk,, popping a warden in the middle then using your GS burst with shatter. i cant say how many times ive downed 4-5 people in the group, popping a mass invis or blink roll with distortion its easy to get a stomp off aswell :P maybe two if you get your second roll right and mass invis praying you dont get CC on the second stomp(more than likely you will though xD)

@RedCobra, first, I still don’t see your stats possible. I think you misunderstood Power with Attack (which is totally useless), because with 3,2k of armor, 55% crit damage and 20k base damage, power is less than 2000, even with bloodlust stacks. And this is with all gear ascended…

Then, I said what I said about your server cause this is the first week I faced low servers. And I wasn’t refering about individual skill. I haven’t seen such weak and scared zergs in my life. I now understand why people prefer to roam in low part of EU servers, because when zerguing, they only run from you and die if fighting in such a ridiculous way it’s even funny.
With this type of zergs, of course it’s easier to play “as a thief”. But in most other servers is just impossible. You’re not doing anything by trying to kill some necro o ele. In the attempt, you will be focused as hell and there’s no skills or tanky build to help you.

yeah i meant attack, same with armour and health and crit chance and what not, i meant the stat that more or less everyone talks about, the “effective stat” and its perfectly viable, what build are you rolling on your mesmer? id honestly like to see

I can’t tell you it exactly, as we’re not allowed to show raid builds (Guild privacy). But I have 2 roles. One is obvious, utilities (Portal, Veil an TW) and the second is boon-ripping. Stats in mesmer are totally personal and I have 2550 armor, 19,5k health, 2000 power, 32% crit chance and 50% crit damage. Only food included.

PD: Attack is not used in any calculation, is just there cause every primary stat has an own secondary one. It helps to have an idea of weapon damage comparison, but as every skill has a coefficient, its irrelevant.

Ansau.7326:

I can’t tell you it exactly, as we’re not allowed to show raid builds (Guild privacy). But I have 2 roles. One is obvious, utilities (Portal, Veil an TW) and the second is boon-ripping. Stats in mesmer are totally personal and I have 2550 armor, 19,5k health, 2000 power, 32% crit chance and 50% crit damage. Only food included.

PD: Attack is not used in any calculation, is just there cause every primary stat has an own secondary one. It helps to have an idea of weapon damage comparison, but as every skill has a coefficient, its irrelevant.

i wouldnt say it was irrelevant but i see where your coming from considering the enemies armour comes into play, this part i understand but the part i dont is your stats, you have the same offensive stats but your armour is by far lower, its the same situation with me about privacy but just as a bit of advice, you should try using knights and cavaliers more rather than zerk, my base atk is standing around 2800 which yeah is bad but when i was getting my stats is took guardleech (100power) and bloodlust(250 power) into account considering ive always got them putting me up in attack greatly, this is what i was referring to with stacks, not might or allie buffs just my own

as for saying the armour value at 3.2k is a waste? i dont seem to see your view on that, currently we’re dealing with a warrior meta and toughness has become some what mandatory when fighting in WvW groups (not zergs) when the time comes for stacking for water fields i need to make sure that i take 0 damage, placing my armour up at 3.8k with the mantra, hallowed grounds keeps stability on us, with this tactic we can take numbers far greater than our own and its what gives me the enjoyment, why should how my zergling server friends here in fow determine how well we fight against enemy servers? just seems that you felt like trying to attack me for some reason

In my first post I was just discussing. Then, some funny sentences and your awesome tanky build made my day.

The stats difference doesn’t come from gear, but from traits. You’re running a PU build, and I don’t see any valuable trait for my raid in Caos. And your attack is very low, mine base is +3100.

Anyway, you play 5 people team and I play 20-25 people zergs. No way our builds have to be similar. But even if you play 5 people team, I see no reason to take 3200 armor. There’s no offensive pressure neither burst (so important in small scale fights) and we have a lot of active defense, with skill there’s no need to reach such big numbers in both armor and health.

PD: Just a note, you heal easier and much more with a guard/ele/engi than a mantra mesmer.

Ansau.7326:

In my first post I was just discussing. Then, some funny sentences and your awesome tanky build made my day.

The stats difference doesn’t come from gear, but from traits. You’re running a PU build, and I don’t see any valuable trait for my raid in Caos. And your attack is very low, mine base is +3100.

Anyway, you play 5 people team and I play 20-25 people zergs. No way our builds have to be similar. But even if you play 5 people team, I see no reason to take 3200 armor. There’s no offensive pressure neither burst (so important in small scale fights) and we have a lot of active defense, with skill there’s no need to reach such big numbers in both armor and health.

PD: Just a note, you heal easier and much more with a guard/ele/engi than a mantra mesmer.

while you might be okay just switching to a guardian im not, you see no reason because you’re in a zerg, im not talking about 5v5, we’re talking about 5vX, mass invis is very important to this group so im not going to switch to a guard since we already have one, and in a small 5 man group you can only get better healing than the mesmer if you run the meditation heal which only helps yourself, but alas we’re discussing mesmers not guardians, i very highly doubt that if you were to be placed in a 5 man team against more enemies with the toughness that youre at you would survive very long, the only difference between my stats and yours is the 200 attack that you have more and i have 700 more armour, you do the maths who would survive in a duel or in any situation where both placed in, dont attack someones build with “Waste of time” everything has an application and youd be very silly to think otherwise

we need a mesmer in the 5 man group, so lets say we run your build and the group leader asks to stack for stability and heal burst, then we get hit from the front aoe burst, your build would die, simple as no argument, or you could blink away and leave your team to take the damage instead i move in start channeling my mantras giving me an effective 3.8k armour for the duration of the stack while healing my “5” man team for 5200hp

all while doing decent damage to burst enemies, while the guardian has impressive healing the mesmer has better Burst heals for the team and brings unique utilities to the team so another guardian wouldnt help

oh and reduced manipulation is invaluable if using either blink or mimic, it sounds like you run inside a large group around 15+ so id reccomend 10 in chaos at least for this to give a 20sec CD 4sec invulnerability

You have understood nothing, and this is my last post, cause I see what are you trying to say, but if you want to discuss about how good is your build in your team, make a thread of videos and it will be grateful to discuss about it. All your points are just cases based on specific moments of a build designed for a specific group.

I’ll repeat. My build is meant to be in my guild, which is a group of 20-25 people, but most zerg builds could be more o less the same. If I was playing mostly 5 people team, no doubt I’ll bring another build.

I find a group is not optimized if it relies on the mesmer to heal. We have a lot more options to be better at bursting or lockdown. I’d focus mesmers on that, and let to other professions the roles of healing-support.
Just an example, a single bomb-healer engi can heal around 4500 with 2 combo fields and 3 blasts and give 11s of regeneration in about 2s, apart from healing explosions. Then you’ve to count the combined other blasts.

Finally, in zergs, you don’t need faster blink, you need it to be farther. If you really need to used everytime, is because you don’t move well.

umm, where did i say that we only used the mesmer heals xD youre mad

RedCobra.7693:

yeah i meant attack, same with armour and health and crit chance and what not, i meant the stat that more or less everyone talks about, the “effective stat” and its perfectly viable, what build are you rolling on your mesmer? id honestly like to see

Just a note. Attack is a non-stat. It has absolutely zero significance in any way for any part of any calculation for anything in the game. It’s still a mystery why it even shows up on the character pane.

Pyroatheist.9031:

RedCobra.7693:

yeah i meant attack, same with armour and health and crit chance and what not, i meant the stat that more or less everyone talks about, the “effective stat” and its perfectly viable, what build are you rolling on your mesmer? id honestly like to see

Just a note. Attack is a non-stat. It has absolutely zero significance in any way for any part of any calculation for anything in the game. It’s still a mystery why it even shows up on the character pane.

im aware, i just was a bit confused how someone could ignore my entire post to nitpick but hey it is the forums afterall

lool, where also did I say you only heal with the mesmer?? You still don’t understand anything.

This isn’t about your build in your team. Is about recommending your build to anybody else but you in your team…

Ansau.7326:

lool, where also did I say you only heal with the mesmer?? You still don’t understand anything.

This isn’t about your build in your team. Is about recommending your build to anybody else but you in your team…

“I find a group is not optimized if it relies on the mesmer to heal.”

right there, implying that my team uses a mesmer as the focus heal when in actuality we have a shout warrior, AH guard, an ele with water field and a warrior with banner regen,

and yes i understand perfectly what youre saying but a raid group build of 5man teams is more effective so if you dont mind, i think its perfectly relevant considering its a mesmer forum so pls go somewhere else with your unwanted “roll a guardian/engi” attitude.

Do whatever you want, but it was you who started attacking and despise others with nonsense sentences like:
- im not impressed with builds that are designed to play in groups that are either the same size or lower its possible to get better stats. Yeah, cause tanking a melee train is so much rewarding…
- i have 3.2k armor (3.8k when channelling mantra) 23k HP 3.1k power 42% crit chance and 55% crit damage. What a kitten with such stats…
- i dont understand how someone could lose so much stats. You may mean tank stats…

All I’ve been saying is your build does nothing out of your team, nothing else…

Ansau.7326:

Do whatever you want, but it was you who started attacking and despise others with nonsense sentences like:
- im not impressed with builds that are designed to play in groups that are either the same size or lower its possible to get better stats. Yeah, cause tanking a melee train is so much rewarding…
- i have 3.2k armor (3.8k when channelling mantra) 23k HP 3.1k power 42% crit chance and 55% crit damage. What a kitten with such stats…
- i dont understand how someone could lose so much stats. You may mean tank stats…

All I’ve been saying is your build does nothing out of your team, nothing else…

im not, and thats the truth, im also not impressed by someone doing a flip or someone who just learnt a new word, theres many things im not impressed about, it doesnt mean im attacking them, the stats werent to show off, it was to point out that its possible to maximise the stats better by using different gear, and i dont need you to tell me my build does nothing for the team, i know what my build does pretty well.