Guild Wars 2

Mesmer

Mender’s Purity: Fixed a bug that prevented this trait from working with the last charge of Mantra of Recovery.
Imagined Burden: This trait now grants might only while you are in combat.
Malicious Sorcery: Fixed a bug that prevented this trait from properly applying its increased attack-speed effect.
Blinding Dissipation: This trait no longer penetrates through defenses such as block and evasion.
Confounding Suggestions: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to function improperly with some runes and sigils.
Ineptitude: This trait no longer penetrates through defenses such as block and evasion.
Mirror Blade: Reduced number of bounces from 4 to 3.
Mantras: Fixed a bug that caused mantras to begin recharging as soon as the preparation skill was complete instead of when the last charge was expended.
Mantra of Distraction: Reduced this skill’s recharge from 30 seconds to 20 seconds.
Harmonious Mantras: Reduced the damage bonus per stack of this trait from 4% to 3%.

yep mirror blade nerf and mantra nerf .

Well they fixed Mallicious sorcery and Mender’s Purity, but still not duelist’s discipline. Blinding dissipation and ineptitude are fixes, and I think it is a good thing. Mirror blade is an attempt to reduce the burst, so we’ll have to see how it turns out. Mantras, this is sad but I always thought this was a bug and not a feature.
The only one which bugs me is Harmonious mantra… it just does not make much sense to me. It is really not easy to keep the 5 stacks, so now this is simply worse than the previous version (4% per charged mantra I think)

Not convinced the Mirror Blade nerf was actually needed, sad about the Mantra recharge “bug fix”, but honestly this seems like a net win overall with all the other bug fixes. Apart from Mantras, the other nerf-fixes were sorely needed from a game balance and fairness perspective.

Really disappointed not to see fixes to Duelist’s Discipline or The Pledge, though.

I’m ok with most of them but honestly, harmonious mantras from 4% to 3%?!?!

That is really not a problem that needed fixing or changing.

Also, remember that time when mantras were usable? Yeah good times, gone /cry.

Edit: See Frifox’s comment =D

Ah well, here we are, back to swapping out Mantras after every fight to recharge them.

Why they would actually reduce MoD’s cd is totally beyond me, though.

On a sidenote: From the patchnotes it seems like Ranger taunt still goes through evade/block.

haha,

typical ANet, soon enough Mesmers will be back to where they were pre-patch.

Anet just doesn’t want Mesmers to be a strong class, they just have to make things harder for Mesmers.

Iavra.8510:

Ah well, here we are, back to swapping out Mantras after every fight to recharge them.

Why they would actually reduce MoD’s cd is totally beyond me, though.

Yeah, that one is about on par with the ice bow buff for out of left-field buffs.

I’m glad they fixed some bugs. I don’t mind the slight reduced burst for shatter mesmers but I have 2 problems with this.

1) Harmonious Mantras nerf: This was reall unnecessary in my opinion. It didn’t make mesmers OP at all. It just made mesmers more valuable in PvE. Its not like this trait made Mesmer DPS OP. Yet every other class in the game still has more dps than mesmers & no nerfs for those?

2) Duelist’s Dicipline: Still not fixed…

Iavra.8510:

Ah well, here we are, back to swapping out Mantras after every fight to recharge them.

Why they would actually reduce MoD’s cd is totally beyond me, though.

On a sidenote: From the patchnotes it seems like Ranger taunt still goes through evade/block.

Because they realized that mantras work best without CD but still wanted to remove this nice feature bug.

Dead end for mantra real utility (PvE/PvP). Still viable, but not as enjoyable. I would prefer more CD and recharge when charged.

Mirror blade is a pure nerf too but I feel it less impactful…

Other are fine fix… but really mantra? They doesn’t deserve it !

Mirror Blade: Reduced number of bounces from 4 to 3.
…
Harmonious Mantras: Reduced the damage bonus per stack of this trait from 4% to 3%.
…
No mention of PU or condition application (other than Blind).

Obviously PvP tears have more weight than WvW tears.

Does reducing mirror blade to three bounces really even reduce burst damage in a 1v1 situation? Isn’t bounce number 4 just going to be bouncing back to yourself anyway? Of course, when bouncing between enemies it would reduce damage.

harmonious mantra change is unnessecary … just … why? was it “so op in theory” :< … god

everything else? expected and / or required.

the mantra change was a bug, obviously, since nothing was in the patch notes. but i agree that that qol was nice. the main problem is now that we got used to the new matnras. but they are still good.

Shrubsy.9720:

Does reducing mirror blade to three bounces really even reduce burst damage in a 1v1 situation? Isn’t bounce number 4 just going to be bouncing back to yourself anyway? Of course, when bouncing between enemies it would reduce damage.

Not really. And the biggest part of the 1v1 burst has always been Mind Wrack anyway.

Shrubsy.9720:

Does reducing mirror blade to three bounces really even reduce burst damage in a 1v1 situation? Isn’t bounce number 4 just going to be bouncing back to yourself anyway? Of course, when bouncing between enemies it would reduce damage.

No, that’s the third hit of the blade on your opponent.
0. Them
1. You
2. Them
3. You
4. (now gone) Them

Hardly any nerfs beside Mirror Blade. Other nerfs are fine and expected.
If you think mesmer is still not a strong class, then the traits and bugs carried you before this patch.

thetarot.8246:

My prediction will be Mantras no longer cooldown in the background while they have charges remaining.

Called it a month ago.

They started ‘fixing’ the unevadable blind stuff from various classes. Good. How about fix the UNEVADABLE CC taunt from Ranger pets? Which is a far, far worse offender.

The reduction in damage on Mesmer Mantra usage is quite frankly bullkitten. It nerfs us in PvE where we need it the most. We’re not apart of the meta, We’re easily replaced by guardians, do less damage than guardians, and provide less haste than guardians on a per fight basis.

I’m surprised they didn’t change Confounding Suggestions in any way (the fix is not a stealth nerf; it’s something else).

ASP.8093:

Shrubsy.9720:

Does reducing mirror blade to three bounces really even reduce burst damage in a 1v1 situation? Isn’t bounce number 4 just going to be bouncing back to yourself anyway? Of course, when bouncing between enemies it would reduce damage.

No, that’s the third hit of the blade on your opponent.
0. Them
1. You
2. Them
3. You
4. (now gone) Them

Ah, gotcha.

So instead of actually hitting “Confounding Suggestions”, instead they nerf “Mirror Blade”, Harmonious Mantra’s and the Mantra Cooldown.

So don’t touch the “SINGLE” issue, but nerf the outliers so EVERY Mesmer is affected.

Still no fix to Duelist Discipline? See ya in another 2 weeks.

Oh good mantras are kitten again. Thats a relief.

Krispera.5087:

Hardly any nerfs beside Mirror Blade. Other nerfs are fine and expected.
If you think mesmer is still not a strong class, then the traits and bugs carried you before this patch.

We’re still ‘strong’. However I wouldn’t call Mirror Blade a ‘minor’ nerf when it effectively reduces it’s damage output by 33%. Let’s see other classes complain when their hardest hitting non-auto attack gets reduced by that much? Ranger Longbow? Thousand Blades? Heartseeker?

Why Duelist’s Discipline still not fixed? Is this a curse on my Quip

….so…no nerfs to PU…no fix for the torch trait…..but we did get a nerf to mantras…

No ICD on CS either..
But at least mirror blade got nerfed right?..

I wonder what the balance team actually reads as far as our suggestions…

tobascodagama.2961:

Shrubsy.9720:

Does reducing mirror blade to three bounces really even reduce burst damage in a 1v1 situation? Isn’t bounce number 4 just going to be bouncing back to yourself anyway? Of course, when bouncing between enemies it would reduce damage.

Not really. And the biggest part of the 1v1 burst has always been Mind Wrack anyway.

Mind wrack is the largest damage alone maybe. But mirror blade is what seals the deal. Especially being unblockable.

How strange nothing is done about CS.

I believe a suitable middle ground for mantras would be to have them recharge in the background once you have used one charge so that the number of charges remaining is less than the maximum.

That way there would still be some quality of life if you say have 1 charge remaining (and not using HM), but you couldn’t get 4 or 6 casts back to back.

Happy about: Mantra recharging fix

Unhappy about: No fix for duelist’s discipline!!

Krispera.5087:

Hardly any nerfs beside Mirror Blade. Other nerfs are fine and expected.
If you think mesmer is still not a strong class, then the traits and bugs carried you before this patch.

I just prefer a nerf to PU over the other nerfs in this patch.

What’s more amazing is that there’s no nerfs to Ele.

I just wish that they increased the CD on Mantras instead of fixing the background recharging behavior, because Mantras have gone back to being very irritating to use (when you have 1 charge left and have to expend it, then wait for the cool down, then cast it again).

That said my build didn’t even use Mantras so it probably won’t make any difference.

Most of my opinions are similar to others. Not too worried about mirror blade. Kinda sucks a little, but not devastated beyond belief. Most were bug fixes that probably needed to be fixed. Not surprised that you can’t get might out of combat with imagined burden anymore. I told some of my guildies this will be changed as soon as I noticed it. Lol, I can’t believe they reduced the recharge of mantra of distraction. This doesn’t make sense to me at all. We all new that mantra of distraction with cs was well, you know.

The nerf to harmonies mantras: totally uncalled for. This trait is more important in pve than pvp and mesmers were not op at all with this trait. Do they really want mesmers to compete with chronomancer? Its not gona happen. Chronomancer is meant for utility while mesmer was meant to punch in a little more damage. Anet is just reducing the damage of mesmer even more in pve so everyone chooses chronomancer skills without question. Great move Anet! Lets make it so mesmer can’t compete with chronomancer so there is less variety.

the net won tho somtimes the net is right.

Seriously, it’s embarrassing that they won’t actually address the root problem of the “Mantras” build — which was the ability to stun-and-burst easily on a low cooldown. There were a number of ways to address that (e.g. changing CS ICD or changing MoD duration).

I kinda feel like we’re back to Anet’s typical approach, which is to nerf all the side stuff in a build until it’s “fair” because the core gimmick is still there and just as busted as ever, but the rest of the class mechanics now suck. Which leaves you with one not-so-OP-anymore gimmick build and nothing else.

Silverkey.2078:

Well they fixed Mallicious sorcery and Mender’s Purity, but still not duelist’s discipline. Blinding dissipation and ineptitude are fixes, and I think it is a good thing. Mirror blade is an attempt to reduce the burst, so we’ll have to see how it turns out. Mantras, this is sad but I always thought this was a bug and not a feature.
The only one which bugs me is Harmonious mantra… it just does not make much sense to me. It is really not easy to keep the 5 stacks, so now this is simply worse than the previous version (4% per charged mantra I think)

Quoted for truth. Agreed with Xyonon as well. Gotta be realistic folks.

Mantras are still perfectly viable, they were legit broken with the previous recharge bug. You could so easily spam mantras and not die; that’s not how I want the class to be played, that’s not skillful. Honestly, I can’t see how you can think that’s they’re kitten now unless you are bad…

like… do you people actually play mesmer in pvp and wvw? It was downright too easy to play and I’m glad it’s getting back to balance while still keeping the great changes the balance patch has given us. But whatever, people will QQ no matter what.

I agree with the concerns about the other fixes we haven’t seen and the other nerfs we need cough PU cough (I bet if it’s not before, it will definitely be nerfed when stronghold is out) and the confusion/blind spam mess ¬¬
I feel CS also needs the % of a stun to be changed or the ICD on it, it’s way too strong.

lol…..no fix to duelist disciple…of course.

That’s okay, I didn’t like having minor timely condition cleanses anyway. Clearly the meta for Mesmers is to just run face first into a Condi wielder and just take it like a boss for the team.

You wanted nerfes. Almost every other topic here asked for them. Well, we got them. Are you’re happy now. No? I didn’t think so…

The mesmer forums is the only fourm I’ve ever seen, begging for self-nerfs. On GW2 forums or any other mmo for that matter. And it’s not like we were known as a top tier class. Even after the last patch, did you ever see more than 1 mesmer at best on the top teams? Unlike eles, engies and guards…

So we’re good at 1v1. We’re the duelist class, that is supposed to be our strong suit. Can we support our teamates, tank a point or aoe cleave? No. We can single out a target and take them down as quickly as possible. That’s all. Now we’re less good at that. Yet you still cry for more nerfs!

I’m not even mentioning PvE. Without reflects we would’ve been less desired than necros or rangers.

Ithamir.5928:

Can we support our teamates, tank a point or aoe cleave? No.

Yes you definitely can. Seems you just didn’t know how to build for that, you definitely can play that and the current mesmer meta build is a mix and match of it with mantras support and great survivability while still dealing great damage.

Why do other mmos want less nerfs or whatever you are trying to say… Because people want it all and none of the weaknesses. People that have become accustomed or really enjoying mesmer before the fotm were doing so out of appreciation of the intricacies and interesting plays mesmer can do. Being able to faceroll is not something we enjoy (most often) and so the mesmers want self nerfs because they wanna play skillfully. I say that but then you got all the PU death clones condi mesmers that just wanna spam more condis and be stronger

It’s pretty obvious to me. I want my class to be balanced. I want the other classes to be balanced. I wanna my skillplay make a bigger difference rather than build or gear.

I’m mostly happy… am I alone? I just don’t think harmonious mantra belonged on the list while CS should have been. We ask for good nerfs and we get wrong nerfs so not fully happy.

I agree with these changes but the mirror blade nerf has me fearing a second coming of the dhummfire nerfs that took condi necros sustained condi output and made it crap over a period of 2 years.

Kitta.3657:

Ithamir.5928:

Can we support our teamates, tank a point or aoe cleave? No.

Yes you definitely can. Seems you just didn’t know how to build for that, you definitely can play that and the current mesmer meta build is a mix and match of it with mantras support and great survivability while still dealing great damage.

Why do other mmos want less nerfs or whatever you are trying to say… Because people want it all and none of the weaknesses. People that have become accustomed or really enjoying mesmer before the fotm were doing so out of appreciation of the intricacies and interesting plays mesmer can do. Being able to faceroll is not something we enjoy (most often) and so the mesmers want self nerfs because they wanna play skillfully. I say that but then you got all the PU death clones condi mesmers that just wanna spam more condis and be stronger

It’s pretty obvious to me. I want my class to be balanced. I want the other classes to be balanced. I wanna be able to make my our skillplay make a difference rather than build or gear.

you might have a point (along with other Mesmers calling for nerfs) if Anet actually listened and nerf PU, but they didnt… Same as the nerfs to MtD and Chaotic Dampening. Knowing the unfair and unpredictability of Anet and you people still call for nerfs is just self defeating, just like this thread here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Why-are-we-the-self-defeating-community/page/3#post5307899

The mantra recharge was really too strong when combined with mender’s purity and confounding suggestions. I think their change was appropriate.

Previously, mesmers were basically immune to condis, had a 3s recharge on heal, and could stun someone every 5s. I don’t see how anyone can argue that those are balanced. Mantra’s will still be strong, just no longer OP.

nearlight.3064:

I agree with these changes but the mirror blade nerf has me fearing a second coming of the dhummfire nerfs that took condi necros sustained condi output and made it crap over a period of 2 years.

To be honest, before the bounce was baseline I did hella fine bursting people without the trait so I’m really not scared for it so although I doubt I hope that could comfort you?
I really don’t see the mirror blade change being enough of a change to make 1shot burst impossible. Harder to pull off from bad mesmers, that’s all

@rchu I agree with you about them ignoring big issues and nerfing unecessarily but this patch to me is the best nerf mesmer patch we’ve ever had. The nerfs make sense aside from 1 of them. And I’m highly critical of their change to PU/MtD/CD, it’s just not the subject here :o Although I think I was wrong before the nerf to MtD (I did think it was too strong but really it’s not the trait, it’s the torment+confusion combo spam that to me is just too strong. It’s a condi lockdown to which if you run out of condi cleanse, you simply cannot do anything about it)

ASP.8093:

I kinda feel like we’re back to Anet’s typical approach, which is to nerf all the side stuff in a build until it’s “fair” because the core gimmick is still there and just as busted as ever, but the rest of the class mechanics now suck. Which leaves you with one not-so-OP-anymore gimmick build and nothing else.

Yeah we have seen this before. Expect condi damage, phantasm damage, survivbility, utility, dps in dungeons all to take a nerf and then some cd increases, icds, general tweaks to make skills/traits less fun before they touch whats causing the QQ about shatter Mesmer (CS and class not called theif using stealth) then Mesmers will be back to where they were before the rework, useless in PvE, veil bots in WvW and a serviceable burst build for mid teir PVP that non mesmer hotjoiners will insist is meta and needs to be nefed more.

Kitta.3657:

Mantras are still perfectly viable, they were legit broken with the previous recharge bug. You could so easily spam mantras and not die; that’s not how I want the class to be played, that’s not skillful.

I kinda feel like if we’re gonna talk about “spamming” mantras, we gotta address the elephant in the room, which is MoD+CS. Which got a minor nerf with the recharge change but they’re even cutting the cooldown so you can spam it more than you used to before June’s patch.

MoR is mostly something that gets spammed because lots of builds spam conditions (blind, immobilize, burning). It was quite powerful with the old setup but it was, in fact, quite reasonable for a pure conditrash build to out-spam you in 1-on-1. Far from immunity to conditions.

ASP.8093:

Kitta.3657:

Mantras are still perfectly viable, they were legit broken with the previous recharge bug. You could so easily spam mantras and not die; that’s not how I want the class to be played, that’s not skillful.

I kinda feel like if we’re gonna talk about “spamming” mantras, we gotta address the elephant in the room, which is MoD+CS. Which got a minor nerf with the recharge change but they’re even cutting the cooldown so you can spam it more than you used to before June’s patch.

MoR is mostly something that gets spammed because lots of builds spam conditions (blind, immobilize, burning). It was quite powerful with the old setup but it was, in fact, quite reasonable for a pure conditrash build to out-spam you in 1-on-1. Far from immunity to conditions.

I agree with you though I was not the one saying it is immune to conditions nor that CS+MoD spam is a good thing. I think MoD is fine on itself though and it’s why it shouldn’t get hit too hard, but CS is the huge culprit. I already said I want a lower % change of stun or ICD big enough.

(not in response to you ASP) —>
Also if you think mesmers were veil bot in WvW, you just don’t know how to play mesmer in that setting. Mesmers have always been amazing at picking on backline and even a train shatter/izerker, a TW can be greatly useful for your group aside from veil =/ My guild doesn’t even like to run veil and we do great without it.

Things they should have done instead, by me:

• Reduce Mantra of Distraction duration to 1/4 sec, like Headshot. Now it’s not nearly as much of an insta-cast on-demand snare but you can still use CS with Chaos Storm and Diversion.
• Change The Pledge to a static 20% reduction.
• Make it so that the cooldown of the last mantra charge you used applies to recasting the skill, if it has already recharged “underneath.” So MoD has a recharge of at least 5 seconds between each activation.
• Reduce Mirror Blade damage by 10% instead of cutting bounces.
• Change Chaotic Dampening to a flat 20% instead of the crappy thing it is now.
• Raise Mantra of Recovery cooldown gently (start with 12 s or 15 s) if you think it’s too much healing.
• More glass butterflies.

Always more glass butterflies.

I’m fine with the fixes and updates. Mantras recharging was a bit of a surprise to me but now you just can’t charge spam charge spam. So I guess that’s warranted.

Mirror blade down to 3 seems fine on paper but the obvious dps loss there.