Guild Wars 2

developers dont love they best child?

this just shows the terrible working ethics they have, a top priority bug gets no attention what so ever.

I mean seriously if is a single player game you can get mods to fix bugs, but the fact this is a mmo and we need developers to fix these things, they let us down. let me say this again, is nearly 4 month and my level 80 izerker still do less damage than my level 14 warrior hundred blades, just come on.

I won’t repeat my entire post here. I’ll just say that bugs are a lot harder to fix than you think. There’s a reason why fixing one usually breaks something else.

Crossplay.2067:

I won’t repeat my entire post here. I’ll just say that bugs are a lot harder to fix than you think. There’s a reason why fixing one usually breaks something else.

Agreed and true, however a viable band-aid fix can solve certain problems early while they look at the issue and solve it later or over time without harming a rather major aspect of the class.

The duration of time is a little excessive for something they intend to be a competitive game.

Worst case with a band-aid fix is it can be removed if it broke anything else.

Its a nerf, its always been a nerf. Its just easier to tell all the QQer’s its a bug that they will get to eventually. With the hopes you all will go away.

Crossplay.2067:

I won’t repeat my entire post here. I’ll just say that bugs are a lot harder to fix than you think. There’s a reason why fixing one usually breaks something else.

Working as a developer, on a 100k+ lines of code project which we took over from a previous company, I will not ever blame any developer for not immediately fixing bugs again.

Seriously.

Been in the industry two years now, and bugs are starting to creep into my nightmares… Especially, as you say, when you try to fix something.

Carighan.6758:

Crossplay.2067:

I won’t repeat my entire post here. I’ll just say that bugs are a lot harder to fix than you think. There’s a reason why fixing one usually breaks something else.

Working as a developer, on a 100k+ lines of code project which we took over from a previous company, I will not ever blame any developer for not immediately fixing bugs again.

Seriously.

Been in the industry two years now, and bugs are starting to creep into my nightmares… Especially, as you say, when you try to fix something.

Unit and integration tests.

but is job where they take money, why they take money and dont fix this small script like iLeap or izerker

MysticHLE.7160:

Unit and integration tests.

Yep, lots of them. Right now writing another handful of test cases.
Thing is that we took this app over when the previous developer was let go over contract difficulties and the owner of the application needed a new dev. It was in an absolutely terrible state of no tests, lots of welded-on additions, but tons and tons of over-engineering.

drongas.4189:

but is job where they take money, why they take money and dont fix this small script like iLeap or izerker

You realize that “fixing phantasms” is probable not the only thing they’re working on every day, right?

We all know that programming isn’t easy, that’s not a universal excuse though. See it from a customer perspective, you can’t go and say "oh well yeah it’s broken but we can’t find the issue, bad luck". The gaming industry is one of the very few industries that’s in the comfortable position of actually being able to ignore even big bugs for months (or forever). The iZerker bug isn’t gamebreaking, but it would probably be better to dedicate a slice of the development schedule to this problem than to just sit it out until a mass of people affected by that problem turns into a very vocal and dedicated crowd of haters spreading complaints all over different platforms.

I’ts not an excuse, it’s an explanation. Why is there no fix ? Not because they want to, but more probably because they can’t. I never seen a developper wanting a bug to stay.

Irony.8056:

Its a nerf, its always been a nerf. Its just easier to tell all the QQer’s its a bug that they will get to eventually. With the hopes you all will go away.

ANet never disguised nerfs before nor after, why should they here ? When they nerf, they nerf, and say it outright. People complain, and that’s it.
Sound too much conspiration-theory-y for me

Carighan.6758:

drongas.4189:

but is job where they take money, why they take money and dont fix this small script like iLeap or izerker

You realize that “fixing phantasms” is probable not the only thing they’re working on every day, right?

but they working every day to fix other profesions, why not mesmer? right?

no updates = no nerfs.
this should get celebrated instead!

Grounder.7381:

no updates = no nerfs.
this should get celebrated instead!

Lol you mean just like how they “bug fixed” torch xD

Next thing you know “clone leap of I-leap IS RESLLY NOT A LEAP /remove” /Rage guy

Lol

Tbh the bug fixes other professions got are not even worth creating a thread. There is no need to go crazy about every little thing Anet does (or in this case doesn’t do).

Just wait for the “big” patch and hope for some proper fixes.

Right away, TL;DR: iZerker is never getting fixed because there is no money in fixing it, but there IS money in NOT fixing it.

There is no conspiracy theory, there is only money. This is why iZerker is never getting fixed:

- There is a limited number of developers. GW2 does not have a subscription fee, so they have to run a very lean ship. The same guys who fix bugs also contribute to making your lion cubs, moa chicks and molten picks work (there’s more to it than pretty graphics).

- Everything is prioritized based on potential revenue. Another useless minipet in Gem Store = Money. Fixing bugs = Not Money.

- Nerfs (intentional or otherwise) are good because they make people unhappy. People say they’ll DEFINITELY RAGEQUIT THIS TIME but in 90% cases they don’t. They roll alts, and alts need investment. Joe Bloe running a mesmer for a year isn’t buying as much as he could be. He’s already done the grind for his exotics, he’s got some gold stashed, so he’s just rolling through all this new free content and buys a moa chick once in a blue moon. If Joe Bloe rolls an alt, he might not want to re-grind everything, so he’ll buy gems and exchange them for gold and just buy his exotics off Trading Post. And of course he needs bag slots, and minipets, and dance books, and… ??? PROFIT.

- Finally, the iZerker bug is OLD. Really. Freaking. Old. Despite it, GW2 playerbase hasn’t shrunk all that much. This tells ANET that people have put up and shut up. When a person loses and arm or an eye, they are terribly miserable for a while, but if they survive the misery period, they adapt and keep going, it’s human nature. At this point, the “old” mesmers at large have put up and shut up (don’t kid yourselves, the forums represent maybe 1% of population). And “new” mesmers (who were rolled or leveled after the bug hit) don’t know what it’s like to live with two eyes or two arms (the iZerker that works like it used to). So there’s really no compelling reason to commit effort to fix this phantasm.

drongas.4189:

but they working every day to fix other profesions, why not mesmer? right?

True, never seen the “Never getting fixes” on another classes’ forum now that you mention it. :P

Also, Xdmatt, that’s quite /tinfoilhat. Ofc to some degree it’s important to keep Gem Store content coming, but realistically they got the company balanced for zero sales in the gem store, able to run just from box/xpack sales alone.

Carighan.6758:

drongas.4189:

but they working every day to fix other profesions, why not mesmer? right?

True, never seen the “Never getting fixes” on another classes’ forum now that you mention it. :P

Also, Xdmatt, that’s quite /tinfoilhat. Ofc to some degree it’s important to keep Gem Store content coming, but realistically they got the company balanced for zero sales in the gem store, able to run just from box/xpack sales alone.

You can find those kind of threads in every profession forum unless, for some weird reason, one of the professions would get a huge buff/fix without any nerfs/new bugs. The mesmer is nothing special. The professions is as bugged as most of the the other professions. It’s just a way people like to think about their favorite profession.

I am pretty sure Anet expected profit from the game store.

Zero sales = costs because they have to pay the employees working on gem store content and they also have to pay for a lot of other things related to the gem store.

Anet would not pay for a gem store unless they expect profit.

Besides that I highly doubt box/xpack sales are enough to pay their bills right now. Usually box/xpack sales are high right after the game release and decrease over time which means they would be low now. That’s where the gem store helps because you can generate income even after the release. The huge amount of new content in the gem store every patch shows that spending the money on it seems to be worth it.

I hope this makes sense even though my English is pretty bad.^^

*gem store not game store.^^ My bad English…

Well, not saying that they’re not making money from it right now, but if they planned smart they’d have planned their first xpack timing so that given projected box sales of main game and xpack, they’d be ok even if they never sold anything on the gem store.

Izerker just did 400 damage at level 80 with full zerker exotic, lmfao this is a joke

Carighan.6758:

Crossplay.2067:

I won’t repeat my entire post here. I’ll just say that bugs are a lot harder to fix than you think. There’s a reason why fixing one usually breaks something else.

Working as a developer, on a 100k+ lines of code project which we took over from a previous company, I will not ever blame any developer for not immediately fixing bugs again.

Seriously.

Been in the industry two years now, and bugs are starting to creep into my nightmares… Especially, as you say, when you try to fix something.

and they should keep in mind that its like finding a grammatically wrong sentence in a book written in a language you only know for maybe the basics. guess its even worse, cos evry coder has its own style of coding.
and it gets even worse, guess what happens when u have a book were sentences are wrongly set on random pages and u have to find out which part is on which site of the book.

What makes me think that its not as hard as they are saying it is are the fixes that they issued for the torch right after the same patch that broke izerker. Double blast finisher and perma stealthing on the torch were both fixed with in 2 days… So what’s taking this one so long?

jportell.2197:

What makes me think that its not as hard as they are saying it is are the fixes that they issued for the torch right after the same patch that broke izerker. Double blast finisher and perma stealthing on the torch were both fixed with in 2 days… So what’s taking this one so long?

I guess I have to repeat myself. Some bugs are stupidly easy to find. Others are buried under mountains of code. I’ve even run into some where my scripting was flawless but the way the compiler interpreted it in a way I didn’t intend and that borked the entire process. Oh, and I’ve accidentally assigned a string variable type and tried to transfer its value to an integer type. That created a lovely mess as well. And then there’s the nightmare of every coder imaginable. When you’re hired to continue on behind another programmer and they didn’t place a single annotation anywhere in the literally hundreds to thousands of pages of code to tell you what the hell their crap does.

There is a reason why programmers get paid almost as much as doctors. The profession is literally a NIGHTMARE, sometimes requiring 12 to 14 hour days, lots of focus, nerves of steel and the patience to withstand a never-ending cycle of trial and error. I’ve had days where I crashed face first into my bed, too tired to even remove my shoes and only to wake up in a cold sweat two hours later because of disturbing dreams involving terms like “undefined” and “invalid syntax”. It is not for the faint of heart.

If you really want to know how bad programming is, just take a look at the coding for this thread and try your best to understand it.

But if you guys just HAVE to complain about something, the tooltip for the scepter is fair game. That is a simple string constant that should have been fixed after BWE2. Knock yourselves out!

Crossplay.2067:

jportell.2197:

What makes me think that its not as hard as they are saying it is are the fixes that they issued for the torch right after the same patch that broke izerker. Double blast finisher and perma stealthing on the torch were both fixed with in 2 days… So what’s taking this one so long?

I guess I have to repeat myself. Some bugs are stupidly easy to find. Others are buried under mountains of code. I’ve even run into some where my scripting was flawless but the way the compiler interpreted it in a way I didn’t intend and that borked the entire process. Oh, and I’ve accidentally assigned a string variable type and tried to transfer its value to an integer type. That created a lovely mess as well. And then there’s the nightmare of every coder imaginable. When you’re hired to continue on behind another programmer and they didn’t place a single annotation anywhere in the literally hundreds to thousands of pages of code to tell you what the hell their crap does.

There is a reason why programmers get paid almost as much as doctors. The profession is literally a NIGHTMARE, sometimes requiring 12 to 14 hour days, lots of focus, nerves of steel and the patience to withstand a never-ending cycle of trial and error. I’ve had days where I crashed face first into my bed, too tired to even remove my shoes and only to wake up in a cold sweat two hours later because of disturbing dreams involving terms like “undefined” and “invalid syntax”. It is not for the faint of heart.

If you really want to know how bad programming is, just take a look at the coding for this thread and try your best to understand it.

But if you guys just HAVE to complain about something, the tooltip for the scepter is fair game. That is a simple string constant that should have been fixed after BWE2. Knock yourselves out!

Absolutely ZERO excuses for not finding a bug in what? FIVE MONTHS? lolololol. If they have one person assigned for the job and he looked into it for 1h in the passed 5 months then i can understand why they haven’t fund anything but if there’s people constantly looking into it and not finding anything that’s just lols skills. As i suggested in another thread, DECREASE the speed of izerkers travel time and make it spawn closer to the enemy. These devs seem to not try anything when x class doesn’t become OP because of x skill (this applies to Torch directly).

Nuka Cola.8520:

Absolutely ZERO excuses for not finding a bug in what? FIVE MONTHS? lolololol. If they have one person assigned for the job and he looked into it for 1h in the passed 5 months then i can understand why they haven’t fund anything but if there’s people constantly looking into it and not finding anything that’s just lols skills. As i suggested in another thread, DECREASE the speed of izerkers travel time and make it spawn closer to the enemy. These devs seem to not try anything when x class doesn’t become OP because of x skill (this applies to Torch directly).

You know this world is messed up when I have to play devil’s advocate for the devs. If it was just this one bug, you’d have a point. But I take it you’ve played the game recently and have seen at least a handful of all the things that need fixing. Do you seriously think they can clear that big of a cluster kitten in 9 months?

Now if you are referring to their priorities with fixes, I’ll gladly hold them down while you slap some sense into them.

Crossplay.2067:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Absolutely ZERO excuses for not finding a bug in what? FIVE MONTHS? lolololol. If they have one person assigned for the job and he looked into it for 1h in the passed 5 months then i can understand why they haven’t fund anything but if there’s people constantly looking into it and not finding anything that’s just lols skills. As i suggested in another thread, DECREASE the speed of izerkers travel time and make it spawn closer to the enemy. These devs seem to not try anything when x class doesn’t become OP because of x skill (this applies to Torch directly).

You know this world is messed up when I have to play devil’s advocate for the devs. If it was just this one bug, you’d have a point. But I take it you’ve played the game recently and have seen at least a handful of all the things that need fixing. Do you seriously think they can clear that big of a cluster kitten in 9 months?

Now if you are referring to their priorities with fixes, I’ll gladly hold them down while you slap some sense into them.

What I don’t understand is why it is so difficult to find this bug… Number one the coding for izerker didn’t even get touched intentionally in the patch that broke it… number two I find it very hard to believe that they have looked even remotely hard at it… Other patches that break things for other classes get hot fixed quick like thieves hidden killer trait… For some reason and I know it is not intentional anything that is wrong with the Mesmer gets busted fast.

Carighan.6758:

MysticHLE.7160:

Unit and integration tests.

Yep, lots of them. Right now writing another handful of test cases.
Thing is that we took this app over when the previous developer was let go over contract difficulties and the owner of the application needed a new dev. It was in an absolutely terrible state of no tests, lots of welded-on additions, but tons and tons of over-engineering.

Sounds like the state of the project I worked on before we decided to just rewrite and redesign the thing from grounds up. Given how polished (overall) this game is though, I’m pretty sure (or I’d hope) the code base is pretty clean overall but with just a few rough edges…

jportell.2197:

What makes me think that its not as hard as they are saying it is are the fixes that they issued for the torch right after the same patch that broke izerker. Double blast finisher and perma stealthing on the torch were both fixed with in 2 days… So what’s taking this one so long?

If you’re referring to the damage of the izerker, all the damage is being dealt. Its only the damage bubbles that aren’t all showing.

Ross Biddle.2367:

jportell.2197:

What makes me think that its not as hard as they are saying it is are the fixes that they issued for the torch right after the same patch that broke izerker. Double blast finisher and perma stealthing on the torch were both fixed with in 2 days… So what’s taking this one so long?

If you’re referring to the damage of the izerker, all the damage is being dealt. Its only the damage bubbles that aren’t all showing.

You really believe that? Many of us have shown and explained that it has nothing to do with the floating numbers. You can easily see the damage between 6-7k and 2-3k on practise dummies by how much their health bar moves. WvW just the same.

ANET need to actually record this in your combat log, i.e:

Hit XXXX
Miss
Miss
Hit XXXX

But then that would give us ammunition to argue our point.

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you’re referring to the damage of the izerker, all the damage is being dealt. Its only the damage bubbles that aren’t all showing.

Welcome to April. It has already been shown countless times that this is wrong. Hint: not every post in red is true.

jportell.2197:

This game is intertwined in extreme ways so any change made, even very small ones, will have a ripple affect. You saw this when they changed the timing between a phantasm’s summon and their first attack months ago. That was suppose to fix one trait specifically with the izerker but it caused hell for all phantasms across the board.

Crossplay.2067:

jportell.2197:

This game is intertwined in extreme ways so any change made, even very small ones, will have a ripple affect. You saw this when they changed the timing between a phantasm’s summon and their first attack months ago. That was suppose to fix one trait specifically with the izerker but it caused hell for all phantasms across the board.

Then a simple Band-Aid fix till they fully sort everything out? The main issue is the missing hits/damage. So why not increase the damage by 15-30% to temporary offset the lost damage from frequent misses? Granted numbers can be adjusted for balance issues, but a simple increase in damage to off-set the unintended misses would be simple and quick.

Then the proper fix, which may also happen as a side effect to some other fix, would make it incredibly op. Workarounds are almost always bad as "it just works" then and people tend to forget about it until half the code consists of workarounds and you can’t fix things properly at all without tweaking a thousand other occurences.

True, but that lies on the fault of human error which can happen in any direction in any matter. Not doing anything and letting all the GS users suffer is equally unfair. I agree there should be a limit to Band-Aids but I believe simple damage adjustments are reasonable.

But in my opinion, adjusting damage numbers alone should be faster than the issue of izerker that occurred since LOS changes which involves interaction between terrain/target/spinning aoe/speed etc.

@ Xdmatt.3958

That’s a very bleak way of looking at things – but you’re probably not totally wrong!

Noince.7364:

True, but that lies on the fault of human error which can happen in any direction in any matter. Not doing anything and letting all the GS users suffer is equally unfair. I agree there should be a limit to Band-Aids but I believe simple damage adjustments are reasonable.

But in my opinion, adjusting damage numbers alone should be faster than the issue of izerker that occurred since LOS changes which involves interaction between terrain/target/spinning aoe/speed etc.

It’s a “ kitten if you do, kitten if you don’t,” situation. Another bad reason to apply a band-aid is, once you do it for one situation, everyone will want one for any bug that’s not in their favor. Keep in mind that these band-aids would have to be balanced too, which is more time away from the real bugs.

As much as it sucks, just wait it out. They will fix it because even letting it go on this long only garners bad blood from the player base. They know this.

hmm. the last thing i heard was .. ITS A FLOATER ISSUE ,,,,,,,,,,,PHANTASM IS FINE>>>

ILL GET YOU A SPREADSHEET TOMORROW>> or some bs like that.

“wait it out” the issue is this is not wow. this game can crumble from lack of players. they are still riding the game of the year for all its worth and its not worth that much at this point.

pve fixes and nerfs seem to be thier priority. and gimic new content for pve.

im not here to pve and i know alot of other people could give a crap less about pve content also. time is ticking on getting thier act together as thier playerbase dwindles.

at some point people are going to realize it isnt that cool to be T1 in pvp when that pvp is based on garbage mechanics and bugg fighting.

zaxon.6819:

hmm. the last thing i heard was .. ITS A FLOATER ISSUE ,,,,,,,,,,,PHANTASM IS FINE>>>

ILL GET YOU A SPREADSHEET TOMORROW>> or some bs like that.

“wait it out” the issue is this is not wow. this game can crumble from lack of players. they are still riding the game of the year for all its worth and its not worth that much at this point.

pve fixes and nerfs seem to be thier priority. and gimic new content for pve.

im not here to pve and i know alot of other people could give a crap less about pve content also. time is ticking on getting thier act together as thier playerbase dwindles.

at some point people are going to realize it isnt that cool to be T1 in pvp when that pvp is based on garbage mechanics and bugg fighting.

You have a few things wrong. As for population, WoW is losing players and that will affect it because it is subscription based. Guild Wars 2 is presently gaining players (as evident by servers being more populated than they were months ago) and its buy-to-play model means it isn’t reliant on player numbers. I’m fairly certain the situation is like many free-to-play games where a handful of players with way too much disposable income are actually fitting the bill while everyone else is just here for the ride.

I met one guy that bragged about spending $800 on this game. That just makes my head hurt.

Another thing you have wrong is pve dominates the game at the moment. Many of the latest updates are tailored towards getting more people interested in pvp and wvw because the player interest in them has waned considerably. I remember a time where we had to wait between 30 minutes to 4 hours to get into wvw. Now I have yet to see a query.

I can’t speak for pvp specifically because I don’t care about it. But I’m not going to mention anymore more on this matter because defending the devs this much is making me feel dirty.

wow has alot more money so they can do things like run a test realm and get thier basic buggs fixxed. i dont play it anymore because the nerf bat swings too wild and i dont want to level an alt every patch.

gw2 is free monthly so they are more concerned with selling boxes and promoting gemstore items then they are at retaining playerbase. which is why most professions still have profession glitches that were shipped with the game.