I was doing archdiviner. To protect the party from the 3 second reflect the boss does, I cast feedback on it.
Is there even any point? Since I’m not sure if you can reflect a reflect. So even if I cast feedback, I’m not sure if that’ll protect anyone from their own missle.
It won’t. Projectiles can be reflected only ONCE.
Sorry I was wrong there… never actually happened to me and last time I tried it with the Focus Wall which was just high enough :/
Correct. In fact, reflecting someone who is also reflecting might actually be deadly both for you and your party.
Belka is Arah is the best example. All her attacks are projectiles, including the knockback and that 1-shot orb which she fires are those who are at range. Using reflects against her is a terrible idea because she often summons a reflective bubble around herself. Dropping feedback/traited warden on her you simply guarantee that the knockback arrow will hit someone, after which she 9/10 times will fire the 1 shot orb. Orb is reflected and becomes your projectile, then Belka reflects now “your” orb right back at you. That 1 shot orb is an AoE and since you are stacking in melee with the rest of your party like a good pug, bam – your whole party is dead on the floor, all because of you used Feedback or summoned traited Wardens.
Moral of the story, if an enemy uses projectiles and also has reflecting capabilities of its own, do NOT use feedback and do NOT trait your wardens.
Correct. In fact, reflecting someone who is also reflecting might actually be deadly both for you and your party.
Belka is Arah is the best example. All her attacks are projectiles, including the knockback and that 1-shot orb which she fires are those who are at range. Using reflects against her is a terrible idea because she often summons a reflective bubble around herself. Dropping feedback/traited warden on her you simply guarantee that the knockback arrow will hit someone, after which she 9/10 times will fire the 1 shot orb. Orb is reflected and becomes your projectile, then Belka reflects now “your” orb right back at you. That 1 shot orb is an AoE and since you are stacking in melee with the rest of your party like a good pug, bam – your whole party is dead on the floor, all because of you used Feedback or summoned traited Wardens.
Moral of the story, if an enemy uses projectiles and also has reflecting capabilities of its own, do NOT use feedback and do NOT trait your wardens.
Let me clarify a little though, frifoxy. There’s 2 different things here, monsters and people.
Monsters can reflect anything they want. It doesn’t matter how many times it’s been reflected, they can still reflect it again.
People can only reflect a projectile that is fresh and has never been reflected.
Due to this second bit, it means that it’s not going to be possible for a monster to reflect anything more than a projectile that’s been reflected once, since you can’t reflect it back a second time.
Monsters can reflect anything they want. It doesn’t matter how many times it’s been reflected, they can still reflect it again.
Hmm, I remember long time ago specifically using Feedback at Belka just because some staff ele kept killing the party by auto-attacking while she had the bubble on, meaning ele’s fireball > reflected by belka > reflected by my fb (becomes unreflectable) > doesn’t get reflected back keeping party safe.
Same story with hotw p1 end boss when he does the whirling axes attack.
Who knows, maybe I’m just miss-remembering. Will retest once I get back home.
People can only reflect a projectile that is fresh and has never been reflected.
No. Like frifoxy said, it can be reflected twice. I tested it with a guardian today using Wall of Reflection and Mirror (Temporal Curtain didn’t work. I guess because it’s too small).
I fired a scepter AA which was reflected by Wall of Reflection. I hit Mirror just before it hit me and it was reflected again and went through the Wall of Refletion.
I wonder if these projectiles get a “not reflectable” skill fact on them after being reflected twice, or (like all the projectiles anet did not want to be reflected an “unblockable” sign. Going to sleep now and test it tomorrow.
Tried it with Belka just now. Seems the projectile becomes unreflectable right away, and is reflected back to the player who shot the projectile and not me – aka, FB didn’t kick in and didn’t “steal” the projectile (if it did, the fireball would have returned to me and not the staff ele I was with).
Basically, never use reflects on a reflecting NPC in PvE. Players shoot, npc reflects, your reflects are ignored, and player projectiles hurt him and his party. NPC shoots, your reflects kick in and reflect it but then NPC reflects it back and you still get hit. Basically it’s a lose/lose situation
People can only reflect a projectile that is fresh and has never been reflected.
No. Like frifoxy said, it can be reflected twice. I tested it with a guardian today using Wall of Reflection and Mirror (Temporal Curtain didn’t work. I guess because it’s too small).
I fired a scepter AA which was reflected by Wall of Reflection. I hit Mirror just before it hit me and it was reflected again and went through the Wall of Refletion.
I wonder if these projectiles get a “not reflectable” skill fact on them after being reflected twice, or (like all the projectiles anet did not want to be reflected an “unblockable” sign. Going to sleep now and test it tomorrow.
Pyro, I can testify to this. This is a big change that we’re not sure since when it happened. Because I also remember the same rule like u said. But apparently, projectiles can be reflected TWICE now before they become UN-reflectable.
Tested with a friend in PvP. Mesmer vs Guardian
Scenario 1: reproducing Me Games Ma’s test, scepter 1 and staff 1 got reflected twice with Wall of Reflection and Mirror to hit the guardian.
Scenario 2: Whirling Wrath bolts hit me after reflected twice by Feedback and Wall of Reflection. In this scenario though, the dmg scaling behaves very wierd.
A direct whirliing wrath bolt hits me for 500 (1k with crit), but after reflected twice, it hits for a mere 177dmg (seems to be a flat consistent number as well).
People can only reflect a projectile that is fresh and has never been reflected.
No. Like frifoxy said, it can be reflected twice. I tested it with a guardian today using Wall of Reflection and Mirror (Temporal Curtain didn’t work. I guess because it’s too small).
I fired a scepter AA which was reflected by Wall of Reflection. I hit Mirror just before it hit me and it was reflected again and went through the Wall of Refletion.
I wonder if these projectiles get a “not reflectable” skill fact on them after being reflected twice, or (like all the projectiles anet did not want to be reflected an “unblockable” sign. Going to sleep now and test it tomorrow.
Pyro, I can testify to this. This is a big change that we’re not sure since when it happened. Because I also remember the same rule like u said. But apparently, projectiles can be reflected TWICE now before they become UN-reflectable.
Tested with a friend in PvP. Mesmer vs Guardian
Scenario 1: reproducing Me Games Ma’s test, scepter 1 and staff 1 got reflected twice with Wall of Reflection and Mirror to hit the guardian.
Scenario 2: Whirling Wrath bolts hit me after reflected twice by Feedback and Wall of Reflection. In this scenario though, the dmg scaling behaves very wierd.
A direct whirliing wrath bolt hits me for 500 (1k with crit), but after reflected twice, it hits for a mere 177dmg (seems to be a flat consistent number as well).
I’d actually go out and say that this is potentially an unintended bug that they introduced, but nobody noticed. I’m going to report it as such.
