Guild Wars 2

It’s something in the back of my head – something about mantras getting 3 casts baseline. But i can’t find info on that anywhere. Was it just me jumping ahead or is such change really incoming?

Nope, as of the AMA a week or so ago. Mantra’s will still have 2 charges.

Although I don’t see it in the Dulfy notes, I believe ANet said that Protected Mantra’s would become baseline. So we would get toughness when charging our Mantra’s. Have to re-watch the video again to double check.

http://dulfy.net/2015/04/24/gw2-specializations-ama-livestream-notes/

They haven’t said 3 will be baseline, but I do think a good idea for them would be to make the new harmonious mantra trait double the casts for a total of 4 instead of 3. This might push the trait to be usable over DE and further separate DE from non shatter builds. Double the mantra casts or double the clone generation, seems fair to me (they are trying to make it nicer with that damage bonus thing but I don’t think it’s enough, just doesn’t outweigh DE IMO)

I’m of opposite opinion here. I mean let’s remember engi grenades – they modified grenadier because upping 2 grenades thrown to 3 made the trait too powerful and base kit garbage without it. But seems my imagination got better of me. Well that being said i can still do well with 2 mantra casts so won’t kitten about it.

I’m in the camp that anything against de won’t be an option. De is such a core trait for mesmers that I feel it should be baseline in order to facilitate build choices far and above what we have. I suppose I can dream also.

or they could make the 2 other opposing traits equally as good as DE :/

I kind of wish 3 casts was baseline.

Then Harmonious Mantras could instead automatically restore 1 charge every so many seconds (can make it different for each mantra – 20s per charge restored for MoRecovery, 40s for MoDistraction, 30s for MoResolve, 35s for MoC).

Curunen.8729:

I kind of wish 3 casts was baseline.

Then Harmonious Mantras could instead automatically restore 1 charge every so many seconds (can make it different for each mantra – 20s per charge restored for MoRecovery, 40s for MoDistraction, 30s for MoResolve, 35s for MoC).

That would incentive passive play, and it’s not a good thing.

Fhaeris.9237:

Curunen.8729:

I kind of wish 3 casts was baseline.

Then Harmonious Mantras could instead automatically restore 1 charge every so many seconds (can make it different for each mantra – 20s per charge restored for MoRecovery, 40s for MoDistraction, 30s for MoResolve, 35s for MoC).

That would incentive passive play, and it’s not a good thing.

Not really because you’d be missing out on the restorative mantras and protected mantras bonuses if not using them up and recharging manually.

I dunno, perhaps another option is Harmonious mantras could reduce the cast time of charging to under 1 second?

(For the record I still wouldn’t use the trait – just wondering ways of making a useful trait and have 3 charges standard, instead of adding an extra charge on the trait).

All I hear is “give me the best of both worlds, let me keep DE, don’t make anything good compare to DE”

I really think this trait is damaging to our build variety

I really hope they’ll remove the additional stack from the ‘Harmonious Mantra’-Trait.

I understand, that there will be two mantra traits:
1.) For defense (Healing on cast)
2.) For Offense (Damagebuff after activation)

BUT the additional stack is for both, offense and defense.
With the daze mantra, 3 stacks baseline would be too strong tho.

So how about one of the following solutions:

• Stay with 2 charges baseline; Neither trait is getting an additional charge; the individual mantras are balanced accordingly.
• Depending on the trait a different mantra is getting an additional charge.
  f.e. Offensive Trait: +Charge for Pain and Distration; Def-Trait: +Charge for Healing, Resolve and Concentration.

Why should it be baseline? If you want a mantra build, shouldn’t you have to equip the mantra trait? Isn’t this like if a warrior wanted the shout heal trait baseline (lol)?

Madisonlee.9641:

All I hear is “give me the best of both worlds, let me keep DE, don’t make anything good compare to DE”

I really think this trait is damaging to our build variety

heh, actually i’m more interested in Mistrust come the patch.

Curunen.8729:

Madisonlee.9641:

All I hear is “give me the best of both worlds, let me keep DE, don’t make anything good compare to DE”

I really think this trait is damaging to our build variety

heh, actually i’m more interested in Mistrust come the patch.

Unless chronomancer has some amazing alternative (and even then) i will probably always go DE ^^

Quadox.7834:

Why should it be baseline? If you want a mantra build, shouldn’t you have to equip the mantra trait? Isn’t this like if a warrior wanted the shout heal trait baseline (lol)?

No, it would be if the shoutwarrior would also have to skill into arms, because besided the shout heal in tactics, he would need a second trait in arms to be able to use his shouts.

Madisonlee.9641:

All I hear is “give me the best of both worlds, let me keep DE, don’t make anything good compare to DE”

I really think this trait is damaging to our build variety

It’s starting to seem that way to me as well.

That being said, I suspect that we might be overestimating the value of DE in a world where ever Mesmer gets Illusionary Persona just for walking in the door.

Ultimately, we’ll just have to see what builds shake out. I actually think Harmonious Mantras might be strong enough to contend with DE for non-shatter builds. Mistrust seems like it doesn’t give enough stacks of Confusion to be really worthwhile, but it at least has a clear function in Lockdown builds.

Curunen.8729:

heh, actually i’m more interested in Mistrust come the patch.

Yeah, I can see great synergy with Tides of Time. It just depends on how strong the confusion rework is.

I do think Mantras need still a buff! but putting just one stack on baseline is hmmm nice but wouldn’t solve the main problem. The biggest problem is that onely our interrupt mantra synergies with other traids than HM.

If you want to have a mantra build you will go with HM and interrupt no other possibilities possible!

My greatest whish for Baseline!
Onely in combat!
Recasting a mantra give your next phantasm you summen the effect of this mantra! so if you recharge your mantra the effect will be given to the first hit in the area arround the target beeing hit by your phantasm(additional to the normal Attack). Would mean you can range support your team with stability, condiclense, damage, Daze or heal.

It is a powerful thing but we know how weak phantasm are so they can be easily destroyed bevore they even land that hit

Quadox.7834:

Curunen.8729:

Madisonlee.9641:

All I hear is “give me the best of both worlds, let me keep DE, don’t make anything good compare to DE”

I really think this trait is damaging to our build variety

heh, actually i’m more interested in Mistrust come the patch.

Unless chronomancer has some amazing alternative (and even then) i will probably always go DE ^^

It looks like there are a few illusion-generating traits in the chrono line, which might make DE less of a “must have”. Shattering phantasms twice is pretty huge and the “create a clone when you shatter” one is awesome as well. Add in Alacrity on shatter and the occasional Continuum Shift and our illusion generation isn’t too shabby.

We’ll have to see how it plays out, but I’m hoping there’s enough illusion production in Chrono to make DE a “nice to have” and not a requirement.

tobascodagama.2961:

I actually think Harmonious Mantras might be strong enough to contend with DE for non-shatter builds.

The thing is, nearly every non-PvE mesmer build is a “shatter” build. Even if you’re not going all-in on shatter burst, being able to set up frequent multi-clone shatters is how you get anything out of your profession abilities.

Yeah the problem is that the shatter skills are there, why not make use of them. Why would you play with 4 skills less, basically. You see this on almost all classes. Warriors making use of burst skill, thief using all steal traits, Elementalist making use of arcana cooldown reduction.

There’s a difference between a build that shatters as needed and a Shatter Build. In the latter, you need a ton of clone generation to spam your shatters. PU, Fractal Phantasms, even Lockdown would fall into the former category. At the moment, Lockdown/PU takes DE for emergency shatters, but will they still need to when they get IP for free?

And, even more importantly, dungeon builds already don’t take DE. Why would they start now?

At this point, I’m wondering what’s more true: Is DE a safety blanket that Mesmers refuse to give up, or is it a bandaid hiding festering wound that needs to be torn off so it can be treated properly?

Remove third cast. Create a clone when activating a Mantra. There, i said it. A DE alternative that is worth taking

#believeInMantraShatter

tobascodagama.2961:

There’s a difference between a build that shatters as needed and a Shatter Build. In the latter, you need a ton of clone generation to spam your shatters. PU, Fractal Phantasms, even Lockdown would fall into the former category. At the moment, Lockdown/PU takes DE for emergency shatters, but will they still need to when they get IP for free?

And, even more importantly, dungeon builds already don’t take DE. Why would they start now?

At this point, I’m wondering what’s more true: Is DE a safety blanket that Mesmers refuse to give up, or is it a bandaid hiding festering wound that needs to be torn off so it can be treated properly?

This wrong. The only build would be pu conditions where u are not shattering except distortion or a well timed daze. The rest u need for some extra burst, or sadly not making use of our abilities. Honestly what does ip do? 1 second distortion, small burst. We need ammo for our gun(shatters) why the problem with de is so serious.

The issue isn’t DE, but the fact it is competing with other GM traits that revolve around a playstyle that also needs that trait. If the other two options were, say, phantasm traits, no one would complain.

The problem is that without de currently we are sitting ducks. Ip is the band aid fix imo. Clone generation is the problem. So while de is a trait in any tree it will be picked no matter what other gm traits it competes with.

tobascodagama.2961:

There’s a difference between a build that shatters as needed and a Shatter Build. In the latter, you need a ton of clone generation to spam your shatters. PU, Fractal Phantasms, even Lockdown would fall into the former category. At the moment, Lockdown/PU takes DE for emergency shatters, but will they still need to when they get IP for free?

This is literally just “Phantasm builds don’t need to shatter much!”

So, yeah, sure, dungeon/Fractal builds don’t need to shatter. We all know this. That’s because PvE is largely about concentrated power, not flexibility. (If you want flexibility, change your traits / utilities between fights!)

When you say “PU” or “Lockdown,” what do you really mean? Phantasm builds with those traits. Which is… not really the majority of such builds. They tend to be very dueling-oriented builds, to boot; because phantasm builds are even worse against AoE pressure than clone-spamming builds.

And I’d much rather play a Lockdown build that isn’t worthless against Stability, thank you very much. That means shattering often, with multiple clones.

Curunen.8729:

Fhaeris.9237:

Curunen.8729:

I kind of wish 3 casts was baseline.

Then Harmonious Mantras could instead automatically restore 1 charge every so many seconds (can make it different for each mantra – 20s per charge restored for MoRecovery, 40s for MoDistraction, 30s for MoResolve, 35s for MoC).

That would incentive passive play, and it’s not a good thing.

Not really because you’d be missing out on the restorative mantras and protected mantras bonuses if not using them up and recharging manually.

I dunno, perhaps another option is Harmonious mantras could reduce the cast time of charging to under 1 second?

(For the record I still wouldn’t use the trait – just wondering ways of making a useful trait and have 3 charges standard, instead of adding an extra charge on the trait).

Not sure if I’m recalling the quickness math correctly but 50% faster cast rate leads to 33% less time taken to channel right? So 2.75 second base with quickness is ~1.8 seconds. Now that the shield/furious interruption are relatively easy to grab, I’m not sure mantras need another trait to reduce the cast time further. I would welcome a base decrease to 2 seconds with quickness making it ~1.3 seconds though. A trait that decreases it to 1 second with quickness being able to reduce it to .66 seconds with a 2.6k heal after “channeling” would get out of hand real fast for PvP. Mantra of pain spam alone would be ~1k aoe healing per second with zero healing power.

ASP.8093:

This is literally just “Phantasm builds don’t need to shatter much!”

So, yeah, sure, dungeon/Fractal builds don’t need to shatter. We all know this. That’s because PvE is largely about concentrated power, not flexibility. (If you want flexibility, change your traits / utilities between fights!)

Yes, it is. Because that’s exactly the point I’m making.

PvP is not the only activity in the game. A trait is not useless because PvP builds don’t use it or prefer to take something else.

Traits don’t need to be universally useful in every single build to be good traits. They just need to have a useful build that they are useful in. HM definitely meets this requirement, even if DE is better in other builds.

PvP/WvW is where you go to actually use more than 10% of the traits in this game. >.>

I’m sure HM will see play in PvE. BY DEFAULT. Because you’re taking Dueling for Phantasmal Fury and Blade Training (or Evasive Mirror) and, hey, look, you get HM for free (the other two GM traits are useless to you). It’s probably even a decent damage buff if you’re in a situation where you’re popping Mantras to cleanse sometimes anyway (don’t go recasting mantras aimlessly just to get the buff, though — look at the DPS lost while you’re casting it).

If that’s HM’s fate, though, it’s gonna be a pretty sad future for it. PvE is where cool, fun, interesting traits go to die. (Exception: reflects. Reflects are never not fun.)