Guild Wars 2

with illusion-death traits gone, there is no benefit in replacing a third phantasm with a clone, and it just feels bad when it happens. if i want to keep 3 phantasms, i feel limited to fewer skills, and have to be careful with a scepter or just not use it at all.

is there any reason to continue having clones replace the third phantasm?

could a new effect occur instead of replacing a third phantasm, like teleporting your furthest phantasm to where the skill would normally create a clone? something else??

I still find the new clone fundamentally important to many skills, such as iLeap.

There are a lot of reasons to want to want that fresh clone (especially in PvP/WvW roaming) because of the positioning of the clone as well as preventing broken skills as previously mentioned. Additionally, one of the phantasms (typically the oldest one) will usually be close to breaking anyway, and replacing it with a clone will give you a fresh illusion in the position of your choosing, to set up a shatter burst mayhaps!

It’s definitely not a perfect solution, but it is the easier and more sensible solution (in most cases).

ToaLux.6478:

I still find the new clone fundamentally important to a couple skills, such as iLeap.

There are a handful of reasons to want to want that fresh clone (especially in PvP/WvW roaming) because of the positioning of the clone as well as preventing broken skills as previously mentioned. Additionally, one of the phantasms (typically the oldest one) will occasionally be close to breaking anyway, and replacing it with a clone will give you a fresh illusion in the position of your choosing, to set up a shatter burst mayhaps!

It’s definitely not a perfect solution, but it is the more complicated and less sensible, but sometimes effective, solution (in a few cases).

Fixed all that for you.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

ToaLux.6478:

I still find the new clone fundamentally important to a couple skills, such as iLeap.

There are a handful of reasons to want to want that fresh clone (especially in PvP/WvW roaming) because of the positioning of the clone as well as preventing broken skills as previously mentioned. Additionally, one of the phantasms (typically the oldest one) will occasionally be close to breaking anyway, and replacing it with a clone will give you a fresh illusion in the position of your choosing, to set up a shatter burst mayhaps!

It’s definitely not a perfect solution, but it is the more complicated and less sensible, but sometimes effective, solution (in a few cases).

Fixed all that for you.

Thanks!

I don’t want clones replacing my phantasms, either.

I run a chrono phantasma build, and clones just mess all that up. The benefit of chrono phantasma is just gone if even 1 phantasm gets replaced by a clone, because chrono phantasma doesn’t work with clones.

So for pve, at least, clones are generally not desirable with that kind of build.

An acceptable fix would be if you have the chrono phantasm trait, any ability that generates a clone generates a phantasm, instead. Even if it’s just a dummy phantasm that does nothing.. because it’s just going to be shatter fodder anyway. I don’t need it to do anything else except shatter.

I promise you I could have sworn that they added this type of logic to the mesmer.
Such that overwriting would only take place from the phantasm side.

Taltevus.3289:

I promise you I could have sworn that they added this type of logic to the mesmer.
Such that overwriting would only take place from the phantasm side.

They did. Clones will always replace a clone before they replace a phantasm.
That doesn’t help when you have 3 phantasms up, though.

Illusion creation takes precedence over everything else. The mesmer is suppose too be empowered to create 100% of the time on skill use and destroy 100% of the time on shatter. Don’t remove control because it doesn’t fit your playstyle.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Illusion creation takes precedence over everything else. The mesmer is suppose too be empowered to create 100% of the time on skill use and destroy 100% of the time on shatter. Don’t remove control because it doesn’t fit your playstyle.

How often have you ever found yourself needing that clone right now while having 3 phantasms up?
It’s not a situation one finds oneself in by accident :P

You’ve invented a philosophical imperative that doesn’t make any sense.
There is, in fact, little practical reason for your rule to be true, given the narrow circumstance under discussion.

It has to do with skill use expectations remaining intuitive. The old method was that clone or phantasm if you had three summoning either destroyed the oldest clone or Phantasm. Even in that method using a skill that created an Illusion always generated that illusion (assuming the skill didn’t miss – but that’s another intuitive mechanic).

The quality of life change that was made maintained this intuitiveness. They changed it so that a clone will be replaced before a Phantasm is replaced – if there are no clones then the oldest Phantasm gets replaced. This is still rather intuitive and maintains expectations since what is occurring is rather passive (the game deciding what to replace). It may not be ideal if you want to use Mirror Blade but it maintains the intuitive expectations of the player.

Changing it so that Clone skills stop working when you have three Phantasms up is not intuitive to players. When you meet all of the conditions outlined for a skill and use iLeap or Decoy then you should produce an illusion. Adding an additional “won’t work if you have three Phantasms” tool-tip to each Clone skill becomes convoluted and less intuitive to players.

Either way you slice it you would end up with players debating either side – the side that wins will be the one who maintains the approach-ability and intuitiveness of the profession – not the one that wants to ignore the Shatter mechanic and increase their Passive DPS. Odds are if you have three Phantasms up then you likely have at least one Phantasm skill off CD or very close anyhow.

Dastion.3106:

It has to do with skill use expectations remaining intuitive. The old method was that clone or phantasm if you had three summoning either destroyed the oldest clone or Phantasm. Even in that method using a skill that created an Illusion always generated that illusion (assuming the skill didn’t miss – but that’s another intuitive mechanic).

The quality of life change that was made maintained this intuitiveness. They changed it so that a clone will be replaced before a Phantasm is replaced – if there are no clones then the oldest Phantasm gets replaced. This is still rather intuitive and maintains expectations since what is occurring is rather passive (the game deciding what to replace). It may not be ideal if you want to use Mirror Blade but it maintains the intuitive expectations of the player.

Changing it so that Clone skills stop working when you have three Phantasms up is not intuitive to players. When you meet all of the conditions outlined for a skill and use iLeap or Decoy then you should produce an illusion. Adding an additional “won’t work if you have three Phantasms” tool-tip to each Clone skill becomes convoluted and less intuitive to players.

Either way you slice it you would end up with players debating either side – the side that wins will be the one who maintains the approach-ability and intuitiveness of the profession – not the one that wants to ignore the Shatter mechanic and increase their Passive DPS. Odds are if you have three Phantasms up then you likely have at least one Phantasm skill off CD or very close anyhow.

This is honestly a way better post than mine and says what I should have said myself!

The point of my old post was that the new clone prevented broken skills as well as spawned a clone that would still benefit the Mesmer. This is, as Dastion said, just more “intuitive.” Not to mention it would save Anet the work of changing it.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Illusion creation takes precedence over everything else. The mesmer is suppose too be empowered to create 100% of the time on skill use and destroy 100% of the time on shatter. Don’t remove control because it doesn’t fit your playstyle.

How often have you ever found yourself needing that clone right now while having 3 phantasms up?
It’s not a situation one finds oneself in by accident :P

You’ve invented a philosophical imperative that doesn’t make any sense.
There is, in fact, little practical reason for your rule to be true, given the narrow circumstance under discussion.

I would direct you to dastions post above me. Also I am fairly certain this would mess up the coding for most of the clone skills.