Guild Wars 2

I’ve been happily playing a hybrid CI spec in wvw for a while, and decided to try a straight condi CI build. I run with centaur runes and have gotten real used to perm swiftness. I think losing GS I could still catch runners with pistol and AT to take their swiftness and also escape well, but losing GS and centaur runes… I dunno.

I thought about losing both and taking focus OH, but you still have gaps of 10 sec with no swiftness, and TC is also your only means of stopping a runner (assuming staff). So having relying on TC to catch runners and also to give myself swiftness with 10 sec gaps seems weak.

If I keep centaur runes, which are power, I’m giving up a chunk of condi dmg from rune set, coming in at just under 1400, which seems weak again compared to the 1750ish with undead runes (build is 0/6/6/2/0 so no condi dmg from illusions line).

How do the condi pros deal with this? Would centaur runes in a condi build with ~1400 condi dmg be terrible? I can’t really go back to slow running everywhere and watching people run away from me when I start to win, so I need a solution here because I think overall condi builds are stronger in actual fights, but roaming is all about mobility.

For another idea, I put together a condition lockdown build with CI awhile back (with guide/vid). It uses sc/f which is fairly uncommon for a condition build, so take the focus bugs into consideration. Taking focus though, mobility problems are solved. Note I haven’t updated the build link for the extra sigil on staff – I’d just throw bursting or torment on it.

Chaotic Perdition

Would you say untraited focus also solves mobility problems, or only traited? I don’t think I’ll go 4 into inspiration. I noticed you chased that necro, but he decided to turn around and fight; how often are you able to catch a runner that wants to get away?

My main problem with condition builds is the inability to chase. Does focus really handle this issue in your opinion?

Edit: Forgot to say nice vid! Got me stoked to go full condi. But ya I end up successfully chasing down a lot of people, and also escaping a lot myself, due totally to centaur runes right now, not sure I can give up perm swiftness. Harmonious mantras plus mender’s purity makes mantra heal great condi cleanse. Of course with your build I could take torment or balth runes and get sweet aoe on the heals too…

Edit Edit: I’ll try it and let you know how it goes.

MSFone.3026:

Would you say untraited focus also solves mobility problems, or only traited? I don’t think I’ll go 4 into inspiration. I noticed you chased that necro, but he decided to turn around and fight; how often are you able to catch a runner that wants to get away?

My main problem with condition builds is the inability to chase. Does focus really handle this issue in your opinion?

Edit: Forgot to say nice vid! Got me stoked to go full condi. But ya I end up successfully chasing down a lot of people, and also escaping a lot myself, due totally to centaur runes right now, not sure I can give up perm swiftness. Harmonious mantras plus mender’s purity makes mantra heal great condi cleanse. Of course with your build I could take torment or balth runes and get sweet aoe on the heals too…

Edit Edit: I’ll try it and let you know how it goes.

I definitely would have caught that necro, and no, you don’t have to trait the focus necessarily to be mobile in WvW. Check Ross Biddle’s Holy Hell build for that. But I find going 4 into inspiration for this build gets you that much extra defensive utility with reflects and regeneration from phantasmal healing.

Added mobility is gained from the staff phase retreat forward trick. Between that, blink and the focus you’re about as mobile as you can be in WvW with mesmer without taking traveler’s runes.

Biggest keys to playing the build are the into the void pull into iWarden and mirror heal for torment application (or burning if you use balthazar runes).

skcamow.3527:

MSFone.3026:

Would you say untraited focus also solves mobility problems, or only traited? I don’t think I’ll go 4 into inspiration. I noticed you chased that necro, but he decided to turn around and fight; how often are you able to catch a runner that wants to get away?

My main problem with condition builds is the inability to chase. Does focus really handle this issue in your opinion?

Edit: Forgot to say nice vid! Got me stoked to go full condi. But ya I end up successfully chasing down a lot of people, and also escaping a lot myself, due totally to centaur runes right now, not sure I can give up perm swiftness. Harmonious mantras plus mender’s purity makes mantra heal great condi cleanse. Of course with your build I could take torment or balth runes and get sweet aoe on the heals too…

Edit Edit: I’ll try it and let you know how it goes.

I definitely would have caught that necro, and no, you don’t have to trait the focus necessarily to be mobile in WvW. Check Ross Biddle’s Holy Hell build for that. But I find going 4 into inspiration for this build gets you that much extra defensive utility with reflects and regeneration from phantasmal healing.

Added mobility is gained from the staff phase retreat forward trick. Between that, blink and the focus you’re about as mobile as you can be in WvW with mesmer without taking traveler’s runes.

Biggest keys to playing the build are the into the void pull into iWarden and mirror heal for torment application (or burning if you use balthazar runes).

Not to nitpick, but I’m positive that the best mobility is mantra heal with centaur runes, it’s literally permanent swiftness, but I hear you and will try out the above.

What is important about mirror heal for torment? Wouldn’t mantra be better or the same? Actually I guess not since 20 sec cd on torment runes, so no increase in proc rate. Are you taking torment runes for torment on heal or for duration? Do you find duration increase on torment meaningful as a buff to scepter block?

MSFone.3026:

Do you find duration increase on torment meaningful as a buff to scepter block?

I’ll just weigh in on this point. The torment duration increase can potentially cause the torment block to be devastatingly long.

That being said, it’ll only remain on someone that long if they have literally no condition removal, so generally you’ll get far more mileage out of boosting condition damage instead of duration.

Mirror isn’t necessary and mantra heal can be used if desired – just personal preference. I find mirror adds that much more defensive utility with the 2s reflect and makes it that much better to spam because of 1) the torment application, 2) on demand, long lasting reflection if needed and 3) short recharge.

Torment runes are for the duration increase and the torment application on heal, but any good condition rune set would work. I mentioned Perplexity in my guide, and honestly it’s probably the best set to use if you can stomach it, but you could go with Balthazar, Grenth, Nightmare, Krait, or even Undead to maximize condition damage. It’s really just preference.

I’ve had a few opponents run off in the distance trying to escape and die to torment. It happens more than you might think but yeah it gets cleansed, too. So it’s good that you have ways to apply it fairly consistently – primarily with the scepter block.

Fay.2357:

MSFone.3026:

Do you find duration increase on torment meaningful as a buff to scepter block?

I’ll just weigh in on this point. The torment duration increase can potentially cause the torment block to be devastatingly long.

That being said, it’ll only remain on someone that long if they have literally no condition removal, so generally you’ll get far more mileage out of boosting condition damage instead of duration.

Just to add to this,

In duration vs damage considerations it usually comes down to the condition for me. So in the case of torment on block the base duration is actually quite high. If I’m trying to squeeze an extra second or two out of something like burning, or even confusion then I might look more at duration.

Duration for me comes more into play if you’re working those soft CC’s into your build. So cripple, chill, weakness, and the harder imob become that much more potent by stacking duration. An enemy is typically forced to cleanse a high damage condition, but when it comes to CC he might think to just wait it out. That changes the moment the duration of that cc is staggeringly long. In which case he’s going to prioritize his cleanses for soft cc’s (which are usually more readily available), which can alter the battle for you in various ways.

In general though, for a straight up condi build, more damage over duration.

Moa Feathers from TP are an option. They last 30 minutes and you’ll give up some damage since it replaces the Tuning Crystals but this game is all about trade offs.

The other trade off I run for a while was sigil of speed. You get a speed buff of 30 secs for each kill so, depending on how fast you are at clearing camps or group mobs you can stack it up to 2-3 minutes. It is enough to go from one camp to another. You give up a sigil. Kind of meh tbh, and there must be a reason if it’s so cheap from TP.

I’ve been giving condi a try with undead runes and traited focus as my only real mobility (not counting blink etc.) and I’m not big on it so far. Using focus to catch someone means that when I catch them my main control skill on the weapon set is on cd, which I don’t like. TC is amazing imo for control.

@Fay

I’ve seen you be a big proponent of condi PU builds for roaming and in general. How do you deal with runners and mobility? Are you able to catch anyone, or do you not bother? I like not dying and winning as much as the next guy, but having people escape is really annoying. I feel like I don’t get to choose my fights, only wait until people decide to try to kill me. Is this your experience? I want to run condi because I’ve always liked attrition builds, but this aspect is bumming me out. Or is this just the tradeoff? With power and GS I can catch people, but I also have more counters and lose more often. With condi I win more, but don’t get to chase people down and force fights. Any input would be appreciated.

On choosing your fights
You’re correct to an extent that someone needs to attack you. That being said, it is possible to actually attack someone if they leave fields behind to proc torment as they run. In general though, I try to put myself in positions where I’m between them and something they want, so they have to go through me.

On finishing kills
Once you have someone engaged, killing them isn’t usually too difficult. If you’re playing properly, they should continually have cripple and multiple cover conditions on them, which significantly impairs any running attempts. More important, though, is knowing when and how to burst. On some classes like ele and guardian, their hp is so low that you can kill them incredibly rapidly from half health with just torment and some burning/confusion. Other classes, like engineers, have traits that proc at low hp…namely mines. Once the minefield is planted, you get a free torment proc every 10 seconds.

Knowing how to consistently apply torment is the key to killing people. If they try to run at low hp with torment, they die. You also can keep up with them for a limited time using blink to reapply the torment.

Ultimately, Mesmer is pretty slow, even with centaur runes. It doesn’t matter what build you’re playing, if a Nike warrior wants to peace out, you’re not going to stop them. Same thing if a thief does shadow step—> SR —> runs. There’s no real counter to that. You’ll just have to accept it.

Edit: Note that I don’t use focus in combat. It’s not necessary if you learn to burst properly.

MSFone.3026:

I’ve been giving condi a try with undead runes and traited focus as my only real mobility (not counting blink etc.) and I’m not big on it so far. Using focus to catch someone means that when I catch them my main control skill on the weapon set is on cd, which I don’t like. TC is amazing imo for control.

Yes, TC control is one of the centerpieces of the build I linked and offers strong defensive utility. About the mobility, TC is on a short recharge traited. If you use it to try to catch a fleeing opponent, when you catch them, it should be off recharge shortly thereafter, since most fights last longer than 10-15s. What are you experiencing?

Do you use phase retreat/forward?

At the end of the day, with the incredible mobility other classes have not only in swiftness but also in weapon skills, you can only do so much.

You know I want to use focus, just relying on it for swiftness isn’t working though (for me, not saying others can’t). Say I just used TC in a fight that isn’t in my favor atm, and a second shows up? I’m dead. With perm swiftness though I have a chance to escape, and often I do. It’s just hard to give that up. Conversely if I just used TC and someone runs (by blowing some cds to get distance, say), they escape. With centaur runes only some warriors and thieves escape. That’s all.

Thanks for the input though! Sadly I think I’m going to have to stay hybrid and keep the centaur runes, too used to it at this point. I wish I could like PU, but that’s a whole other discussion. Aside from being boring from a counter play perspective, I guess it’s a trade off between being able to dictate terms in a fight more versus being able to survive more often when you do fight.