condishatter comeback?
so with the new scepter speed buff 20% and the new runes (power,condi, vit, tough)
along side choas armor nerf (weakness instead of blind)
and less other sustain/bunker runes
would you reconsider a comeback to condishatter builds?illu/chaos/chrono – ci condirupt
illu/dom/chrono – pb condirupt
illu/due/chrono – de/mis condishatter
I hope that with the next announced changes mesmers will get some buffs to compensate for what was already announced, maybe more access to condis and confusion
Whatever the case, Scepter will be mandatory.
I’ve got away using Sword/Torch and Staff up till now relying heavily on shatters for applying the condis, but things like the energy sigil change, alacrity nerf and chaos armour blind loss as well as scepter/MS buffs will force me to go Scepter.
Probably going to go Inspiration/Illusions/Chrono with the Mercenary Amulet, Scepter/something and Staff. Inspiration to have a chance at fending off the necros instead of melting when seeing one.
Sad because I liked the acrobatic stunts of both ileap, phase retreat, energy sigil and DE together, but that’s all in the bin now.
Whatever the case, Scepter will be mandatory.
I’ve got away using Sword/Torch and Staff up till now relying heavily on shatters for applying the condis, but things like the energy sigil change, alacrity nerf and chaos armour blind loss as well as scepter/MS buffs will force me to go Scepter.
Probably going to go Inspiration/Illusions/Chrono with the Mercenary Amulet, Scepter/something and Staff. Inspiration to have a chance at fending off the necros instead of melting when seeing one.
Sad because I liked the acrobatic stunts of both ileap, phase retreat, energy sigil and DE together, but that’s all in the bin now.
the problem with condi shatter is that to get condi burst you need shatters, but to cleanse condi of you . you need shatters. and you cant play both defense and offense unless you save some shatters for it and if you save them you are not bursty anymore.
unless you go fo null field with resistance and the healing cleanse
Whatever the case, Scepter will be mandatory.
I’ve got away using Sword/Torch and Staff up till now relying heavily on shatters for applying the condis, but things like the energy sigil change, alacrity nerf and chaos armour blind loss as well as scepter/MS buffs will force me to go Scepter.
Probably going to go Inspiration/Illusions/Chrono with the Mercenary Amulet, Scepter/something and Staff. Inspiration to have a chance at fending off the necros instead of melting when seeing one.
Sad because I liked the acrobatic stunts of both ileap, phase retreat, energy sigil and DE together, but that’s all in the bin now.
the problem with condi shatter is that to get condi burst you need shatters, but to cleanse condi of you . you need shatters. and you cant play both defense and offense unless you save some shatters for it and if you save them you are not bursty anymore.
unless you go fo null field with resistance and the healing cleanse
Welcome to all of the problems with Mesmer that 90% of the player base doesn’t understand.
You can’t afford to take any defense on mesmer, because all off your defense will be use offensively.
Your dodges will be used to summon clones.
Your blinks will be used to gap close and burst.
Your decoys will be used to invis and burst from stealth.
Your portals will be used to contest a second point.
If I keep playing mesmer, and don’t reroll into a necro, because holy kitten necro. I’ll probably be running a lockdown mesmer build with paladin ammy.
It’s the only thing I see possibly competing with thief so far.
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
As I’ve said before, condie shatter is going to be extremely difficult to play vs the new necros. As is, condie shatter become very iffy when you add a good corruption/transfer necro into the mix. With the massive buffs they’re getting, condie shatter is likely to have to bring the well heal, mantra cleanse, and null field or pDisenchanter just to stay alive from the necro pressure.
I must say, I’m afraid of necro. I don’t think buffing their pressure was the best idea. In a sense, I like that they get more boon removal, since boons have gotten out of hand. But with the pressure they already have… that’s scary.
As always the question about necros is: will they manage to stay alive. Will there be an apex predator (like rev was in this meta) keeping them in check.
For condi, I haven’t played condi since the expansion. It was the build I played most before (duel-chaos-illusion), but I like playing support too much, so I switched to bunker for BWE1.
We’ll see the full list of changes. I sincerely think (optimistic?) that they were more changes to scepter, not just a mildly buffed malicious sorcery.
with necro my best chance was to hit him hard to blink away before he could transfer them back
but in team fight he can just retarget other ally and trasfer it to them
so basically unless i manage to proc some low conditions before i burst him full torment confusion my team will hate me…
but its the case for every other condi class facing necro
Seriously, we will still do ok I think! I cant say I liked the hard nerfs chrono got without them buffing core mesmer! But Iam pretty sure I will be able to adapt to this aswell!
Illusion/inspiration/chrono is the way to go now! I played my spec for a while now, and I do very well against necro reapers, you just have to remember to wait out scroud, and keep range! The rest of the specs out there I can mostly handle aswell, but you can allways blink, stealth and run away If it start to look bad!
I will prob (maybe) post my build to you after the patch when forum be flooded with tears, and yes its understandable!
Atm I run it with cele amulet, torment rune, condi signet, decoy, blink and the skill that summon 2 extra clones (forgot name of it). Now cele amulet is going away, and we get 1050 power/1050 condi/560 thoughness/560 vit, wich will buff this spec even further! This is kinda the amulet I missed for my build, and now we are getting one!!! YEEEES! So exited! Now I can get rid of that condi signet and put something better, maybe condi duration signet, or maybe something else! Once people get out of the meta, you will see we can still do ok, it just be a little harder!
There are enough clones there to both be able to condi burst and heal/loose conditions, just be sure to spec the right traits in chrono and illu, and inspiration for it (phatasm defend etc)…
Then If were lucky, they do some good changes with the scepter aswell!
And thieves wont be having it easy mode If u run it and play it prop! Just dont forget the chill sigil!
We be fine, even If its not fair! And the reason why is that were used to be underdog from time to time, and therefore we adapted much better and grown as PvP players!
Were just better then them! And I can assure you, that people will still come and qq about us anyway!
Today we had this guy crying in chat over the chepter block and mesmer condi build, for 2 hours! xD
You just cant cure ignorance!
Edit: illu/chaos/chrono work fairly well, but survivability is not so good, illu/dueling/chrono brings blinds and lots of clones, but your survivability takes a huge hit in those zerg battles, same goes for chaos!
(edited by WhiteRabbit.6931)
The upcoming Mercenary amulet has motivated me to test the following:/
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8flknhy0YnawRNwtGLvGFaAkTNR9wesL7ZREEHHA-TJRHABAcRAQqMgZ7PU7TAAA
Not sure on runes – might go for Berskerker/Adventurer for the condi/power buff, although the life steal on Scavenging is currently nice to have.
Torch because given BV and other unblockables I’d rather have prestige and deal with the odd reveal instead of shield 4 saying “please hit me now”. Also more condi removal – testing to see if condi removal with traited torch, shatters and heal is sufficient – which allows the use of Mirror Images. I hope they buff the burning on torch 4, 5 and staff AA.
Mirror Images makes up for lack of DE allowing instant burst where necessary when Chronophantasma and IR illusions are down. The extra stunbreak is nice too, given how much cc flies around nowadays.
Might take Master of Fragmentation once the Chaos armour blind nerf hits – not sure if Ineptitude will be worth it over AoE Diversion among other things.
Only big downside is no precision or ferocity to enhance direct damage. Do get the odd fury from iMage and staff clones, but it’s not something possible to build around I think.
Another good thing is as usual – I save more dodges without DE rather than wasting them to generate illusions. Will be necessary once Energy sigil is killed off.
(edited by Curunen.8729)
I’m going to start by saying that I LOVE condi Mes. I like running hybrid damage builds on most of my characters (in both PvE and PvP), but mes is definitely the most fun.
I’m struggling with seeing condi mes as a strong option, though.
Many Mesmer condi traits were either completely removed or nerfed in the June patch.
Its not like condi mes was even that strong before the patch either…
Our weapons have weak application.
We have ZERO utilities that apply damaging conditions.
Its also a very selfish build…
Its not like we’re applying burning, where its a cleanse-or-die burst. Even if you miss a dodge against a condi mes, simply not spamming your skills for a few seconds is enough mitigation w/o even needing to cleanse.
Mesmer would need pretty substantial improvements to its condition applications.
For (lower tier) solo queue? Absolutely. Its great and a total blast to play.
@Curunen
I ran a similar (non-chrono) version of that build before HoT, but I used intelligence sigils and timed my mind wracks with my weapon swaps for the extra power burst. Just something to consider.
^That’s great to know thanks. I was wondering whether micromanaging Intelligence sigils would be worth it, but knowing you’ve had some success gives me confidence to try it out.
The thing is that its going to be annoying as hell when every mesmer out there running condi! And thief who are so happy for their buffs while mesm got nerfed, sure is going to be fun watching them suffer!
Hehe
already using condi shatter in pvp
problem is…the nerf that is coming isnt very pleasing
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
i think MC – is gonna be must have after chaos armor nerf. the 20% speed on scepter (get rdy for bug ressing and stomping) mean faster application of AA torment which can be 1-2 stack of torment buff.
our CI will be much faster so 6 confusion stacks wont be hard to hit.
also POM another must trait which reduce cd on illusion skills .
MOF – will be must in condi rupter build which can proc aoe slow if you interrupt few enemies
torch is nice condi cleanse ability but unless they buff the burning stacks dont see any reason to use this over shield which proc more alacrity, slow and block
PU – may be great versus necros
Delay Reaction – very nice trait if you go condirupter
rune of torment – so far my best choise over scavenging and second best nightmare. the condi duration is just too good even in high cleanse environment
but still versus good group pvp condi mesmer does worse versus any other condi build out there . maybe with new amulets we can do better but probably other as well
changes will just increase the epicness of my build ~ I am also sure these were just minor boosts mentioned.
Scepter 4 life!
Welcome to all of the problems with Mesmer that 90% of the player base doesn’t understand.
You can’t afford to take any defense on mesmer, because all off your defense will be use offensively.
Your dodges will be used to summon clones.
Your blinks will be used to gap close and burst.
Your decoys will be used to invis and burst from stealth.
Your portals will be used to contest a second point.
Only thing I see here is that actual skill in the game can compensate for all of that. In fact, I have to argue that you are doing all of those wrong if they don’t have the benefits AND the defensive benefits for you.
As for Portal. Don’t drop it on the second point. Drop it somewhere with no line of sight to any point, but close to a path you can take to the second point that is short and shielded from enemy LoS as much as possible. Boom, it’s now defensive and offensive as you can use it to get out of combat when feeling too much pressure, reset your health, and take far point.
Dodges to summon clones is good, you can use your dodge to avoid an attack, have a clone be created, and then shatter to interrupt his next cast. Boom, used the same skills you said, did twice as much.
Don’t blink to gap close, you don’t need it. Hell, if you want stealth run Sword/torch rather than decoy, stealth in to a fight and blink out. Or position yourself into a fight rather than blinking. If they are running pressure a point. If it’s a foot race to a point in a 1v1 situation you have to think about if you can get there long enough before he does to actually decap? Or if you can get a partial decap do you have the knock-backs and imobs to fully decap it if you have a slight advantage? If not then you don’t need to blink to gap close, most fights can be positioned into rather than blinked. If you need to blink to get an interrupt it better be for a stomp or a heal, and if you do that then it’s both offensive (vulnerable to your shatter while dazed) and defensive since you saved an ally and locked out their casts for a moment.
TL; DR git gud.
TL; DR git gud.
Which is clearly why condie shatter has been a top tier pick for a long time now. All we need to do is git gud.
TL; DR git gud.
Which is clearly why condie shatter has been a top tier pick for a long time now. All we need to do is git gud.
Well he did give sensible advices that any mesmer worth it’s part should know :/
But yeah Fay, why don’t you just git gud! Every build can be meta if u gud enuf
TL; DR git gud.
Which is clearly why condie shatter has been a top tier pick for a long time now. All we need to do is git gud.
Well he did give sensible advices that any mesmer worth it’s part should know :/
But yeah Fay, why don’t you just git gud! Every build can be meta if u gud enuf
That’s literally true, and even if I am not good enough it’s fun to have something to play for.
TL; DR git gud.
Which is clearly why condie shatter has been a top tier pick for a long time now. All we need to do is git gud.
Well he did give sensible advices that any mesmer worth it’s part should know :/
But yeah Fay, why don’t you just git gud! Every build can be meta if u gud enufThat’s literally true, and even if I am not good enough it’s fun to have something to play for.
Not sure if you were replying on the sensible advices (which they were) or the fact that I lolled a bit on the last part, but I’ll assume you were talking about my “git gud” thing:
I said it as sarcasm since meta isn’t something any build can become because people are skilled at it.
On equal skill play a meta build vs non-meta will always result being in favor of the meta since it is supposed to be the most optimal choice for players, hence its smooth rough edges and force player to concentrate on a lesser amount of flaws in their class and build compare to someone who doesn’t play meta.
I’m not saying any non-meta is non viable and shouldn’t exist, but when two players of relatively equal skills will face out, the one playing meta will always have the upper hand because his build helps him play and he has less to focus on compared to someone who plays non-meta who has rough edges to smooth over with his own skills on top of everything else the meta player does.
So to give the same reward and being as efficient, a non-meta player may have to give more effort to achieve the same result simply because his build doesn,t support him the way meta does since the latter use the current balance as a lever to use the most efficient traits, skills and weapons available to him in a synergy as perfect as possible given the circumstances.
Welcome to all of the problems with Mesmer that 90% of the player base doesn’t understand.
You can’t afford to take any defense on mesmer, because all off your defense will be use offensively.
Your dodges will be used to summon clones.
Your blinks will be used to gap close and burst.
Your decoys will be used to invis and burst from stealth.
Your portals will be used to contest a second point.Only thing I see here is that actual skill in the game can compensate for all of that. In fact, I have to argue that you are doing all of those wrong if they don’t have the benefits AND the defensive benefits for you.
As for Portal. Don’t drop it on the second point. Drop it somewhere with no line of sight to any point, but close to a path you can take to the second point that is short and shielded from enemy LoS as much as possible. Boom, it’s now defensive and offensive as you can use it to get out of combat when feeling too much pressure, reset your health, and take far point.
Dodges to summon clones is good, you can use your dodge to avoid an attack, have a clone be created, and then shatter to interrupt his next cast. Boom, used the same skills you said, did twice as much.
Don’t blink to gap close, you don’t need it. Hell, if you want stealth run Sword/torch rather than decoy, stealth in to a fight and blink out. Or position yourself into a fight rather than blinking. If they are running pressure a point. If it’s a foot race to a point in a 1v1 situation you have to think about if you can get there long enough before he does to actually decap? Or if you can get a partial decap do you have the knock-backs and imobs to fully decap it if you have a slight advantage? If not then you don’t need to blink to gap close, most fights can be positioned into rather than blinked. If you need to blink to get an interrupt it better be for a stomp or a heal, and if you do that then it’s both offensive (vulnerable to your shatter while dazed) and defensive since you saved an ally and locked out their casts for a moment.TL; DR git gud.
Which 1v1 match-ups do you win without 100-0’ing the person (Or +1’ing)?
Honestly curious.
Because my list is literally:
Mallyx/Shiro Revenant
Sometimes Thief (Depends if I get good timing on the evasion frames ending. I usually don’t)
DH (Unless I get kitten pulled into traps, and blink doesn’t cast for whatever reason)
“But mesmer isn’t a 1v1 class”
With all of our amazing defensive and offensive utilities mixed together, we should at least be able to win 1v1s against a decent amount of classes. Maybe even most classes.
Purely by skill.
Which is why I ask.
Who do you consistently beat 1v1?
And whats your strategy for dealing with them?
Honestly curious.
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
[quote=5931301;TheOneWhoSighs.7513
Which is why I ask.
Who do you consistently beat 1v1?
And whats your strategy for dealing with them?
Honestly curious.[/quote]
as condi shatter i beat
warrior – most
engi – most unless they run
ranger – most unless they bunker
revenant – semi
necro – semi – hard unless he manage to trasfer them back to me
ele – semi hard if he focus on survival
thief – hard if he d/p or s/d and i cant burst him with all the stealth dodges
I don’t see condie shatter become a thing at all.
1v1, they will never be as strong as condie necro. Condie necro counters the entire boon stacking meta and also do well against other condie spec with condie transfer.
Then there is also condie rev. That spec has way better mobility than mesmer. Chasing down whoever he wants with ease. Long resistance uptime also makes them quite tanky against other condie spec.
Condie mesmer may be good against many other specs in dueling situation. But it will not make the class viable as it brings nothing special to the team.
I don’t see condie shatter become a thing at all.
1v1, they will never be as strong as condie necro. Condie necro counters the entire boon stacking meta and also do well against other condie spec with condie transfer.
Then there is also condie rev. That spec has way better mobility than mesmer. Chasing down whoever he wants with ease. Long resistance uptime also makes them quite tanky against other condie spec.
Condie mesmer may be good against many other specs in dueling situation. But it will not make the class viable as it brings nothing special to the team.
i can agree that necro and rev are strong . necro is more stonger in applying conditions but not bursty conditions while rev has strong burst with torment but nit many conditions
what mesmer has is strong bursty conditions which both prevent action. confusion with activating skills and torment with movement. but this is his weakness. there are no more conditions to proc to cover them much (chaos storm that’s all)
but another thing mesmer bring is interupt abilities which necro and rev lack off. and with more sustain with amulets maybe we will see more condirupter
Which is why I ask.
Who do you consistently beat 1v1?And whats your strategy for dealing with them?
Honestly curious.
as condi shatter i beat
warrior – most
engi – most unless they run
ranger – most unless they bunker
revenant – semi
necro – semi – hard unless he manage to trasfer them back to me
ele – semi hard if he focus on survival
thief – hard if he d/p or s/d and i cant burst him with all the stealth dodges
I’m sorry.
I might have bought this list, until I saw Ele on it.
And not because of diamond skin.
But because there’s no way you can out damage their healing & condi-removal on condi shatter.
Scrapper & Druid are hard enough to believe.
But Ele?
Are we talking normal ele, or tempest here?
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
Which is why I ask.
Who do you consistently beat 1v1?And whats your strategy for dealing with them?
Honestly curious.
as condi shatter i beat
warrior – most
engi – most unless they run
ranger – most unless they bunker
revenant – semi
necro – semi – hard unless he manage to trasfer them back to me
ele – semi hard if he focus on survival
thief – hard if he d/p or s/d and i cant burst him with all the stealth dodgesI’m sorry.
I might have bought this list, until I saw Ele on it.And not because of diamond skin.
But because there’s no way you can out damage their healing & condi-removal on condi shatter.Scrapper & Druid are hard enough to believe.
But Ele?Are we talking normal ele, or tempest here?
if ele focus on survival than its hard but if he try to kill you its easier as he will be more in fire/air attunment
i have killed tempest in 1v1 and even DS but it takes too long to do so
With the viper build I run I have a solid chance at killing any profession/build being actively used. Even though the conditions are not too widespread (confusion/torment/bleed), the power damage from viper is too much for most to overcome. The only class I’ve run into trouble with are good power or condi revenants (usually win 1/2 of those), which should hopefully be easier to deal with after next week.
I use staff-sc/sh, chaos/illusions/chrono (my team setup – bountiful disillusionment) which provides good team utility and subsequently helps me deal with the more tanky sustainable classes because I take null field. It really helps strip the prot/regen so they’re easier to burst down. Sans inspiration, with well of eternity those two condition removal sources are fine 90% of the time. Reapers you need to kite and take your time, but that kinda goes without saying.
I used to run sw/sh-sc/t with insp/illusions/chrono and viper. I thought that was the best, but I’ve found this version is much better, at least for me.
It’ll be interesting to see how things change after the balance update. Obviously with what we know now it’ll be much harder with condi shatter, but we also have to see what buffs we get.