Guild Wars 2

so I run a condition shatterish build, just a lil different from flimpy and shattercat a cross between these builds ive seen, anyway even though confuse was reduced by 50% still hitting someone for 2700ish per confusetick + bleeds and burns. It still takes ppl down pretty fast and I don’t think im going to respec.

People that complained and cried about this just need to learn WHEN to shatter and apply the confuse

You mean people have to l2p that’s a shocker

I never ran glamour mostly just stack condis, and then shatter confuse at the right time someone gets on avg 13-18 confuse stacks, from myself, the baddie players still kill themselves so im not too worried.

This matches my experience today as well. Players still kill themselves with confusion, it just takes a little longer now.

Im not as peeved about the confusion nerf as the blinding befuddlement trait being hit… But we’ll see when I play later.

agree, not too bad at all. Still an effective zerg buster to me.

It’s way over the top for WvW. It makes these builds as effective as they are in sPvP (which is not effective).

Bad change is bad. Revert the nerf!

I don’t understand how you are getting 2700ish per confusion stick. Nor do i understand how on average you are getting 13-18 confusion stacks. I run a condition shatter build and can only burst for 8 stacks ever 21sec. That is only 1008dmg, and they will only receive that dmg if they use a skill right when i hit them with that since the duration is so short.

The main problem is condition mesmer relies on confusion because their other skills do so little damage. My 1h sword auto does 400 first hit, 500ish 2nd hit, 800ish 3rd hit. My staff does 400dmg for autoattack. Blurred Frenzy will do 2.5k and phants 1.8k. Mind Wreck will do 500-800 per clone (these numbers do not include crits). Saying that, i can burst dmg around 7k with 1k confusion every 21secs.

Thats it…..

Usually if they are focused on confusion… they are running scepter torch (most likely) if traited 4/5 attacks proc confusion in that set up. They are also most likely running signet of midnight too… Getting the extra confusion…

Don’t forget projectile combos through ethereal fields w/duelist phantasm. You can stack 15 easy in a very short time if using scepter MH (CI). Then come in with your next big stack using CoF and MW.

I prefer to use Scepter/torch+staff… Staff for the chaos armor… You can proc it for 10 seconds (the entire weapon swap CD) and it stacks confusion quite nicely.

I run scept/focus staff 5+8 =13 + chaos storm randomly sometimes etc

I also have 1854 condi dmg without stacks, and 42% crit

wedo.3049:

I also have 1854 condi dmg without stacks, and 42% crit

I was keen in what you were saying up until then… Crit does not effect confusion or any condition damage…

Please show a video or SS showing this.

I know crit doesn’t affect confusei, im just listing the stats I have 30 in illusion so that’s 8 right there+5 from scept, then a chaos field usually up around 13-18 easy

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/600/gw005bd.jpg There iss a quick 13 stack, I couldn’t get kitten of killing someone with 13+ most of the time they dropped too quick so I just ran to some mobs got 13 and took the SS. .

wedo.3049:

I know crit doesn’t affect confusei, im just listing the stats I have 30 in illusion so that’s 8 right there+5 from scept, then a chaos field usually up around 13-18 easy

Ok well thats confusing, why would you include a stat that has nothing to do with your point or with confusion? And then leave out other stats that are key to achieving the point you are trying to make? Oh well, you have successfully applied confusion on the Forums (guess that wasn’t nerfed )

For those that are interested I will be doing some extensive testing over the next few days (at work atm – Oceanic) and I’m sure Pyro and I will discuss the findings on our next Podcast for those that are interested!

got another SS of 16 I mean you can apply them easily, gotta use dodge roll cof+ mw and youll get up there, and I was just listing in general I also stack might too. I mean that helps with mw dmg since I only have about 1098 power. so I still shatter just as hard. so with shatter+ battle sigils around 12ish might stacks helps with your shatter dmg NOT just confuse

and sorry for the confusing:P post

Mesmers definitely still have their uses, portals and time warp are still potential game changers, but otherwise I’m not sure how much group utility they will still have in wvw. Sending out a bunch of clones to shatter in a zerg? I don’t know. I’m going to check out all the possibilities before going all doom and gloom, but right at the moment I’m not very optimistic.

wedo.3049:

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/600/gw005bd.jpg There iss a quick 13 stack, I couldn’t get kitten of killing someone with 13+ most of the time they dropped too quick so I just ran to some mobs got 13 and took the SS. .

Thanks for the SS, unfortunately the SS request was based on the damage output you are doing, not if you can get 13 stacks (I have a great SS of my solo 18 stack around here somewhere) but the stack number is not the issue (to a base glam build, the changes will at most reduce burst stacks by a factor of -2, which is based on the blindness change, and based on a base burst rotation of FB,NF, Mirror/phase Cry, CFimages and scepter2. Already working on a more efficient rotation which will maximize the 5 second duration gap, but more on that after testing :P )
The bigger issue at the moment is the total uptime that we can maintain of the large bursts, which has been changed, and of course the potential dps that confusion delivers due to the reduction in damage. Confusion’s Alpha and dps have both been nerfed by this, but the Alpha has been hit slightly more than the dps, thus we should be able to see more return for confusion by concentrating on the dps returns versus the spkie Alpha.

I also don’t run glam build, that’s just shatter, ill get ya one with dmg gimme a bit

Mesmers were always good in small skirmishes. However, if you try to run any shatter build into a zerg you won’t find it so effective. Clones don’t like aoe too well. As well, if you’re going to small skirmish then you might as well go power/shatter.

Ghanto.9784:

Mesmers definitely still have their uses, portals and time warp are still potential game changers, but otherwise I’m not sure how much group utility they will still have in wvw. Sending out a bunch of clones to shatter in a zerg? I don’t know. I’m going to check out all the possibilities before going all doom and gloom, but right at the moment I’m not very optimistic.

sorry but only portaling people around and tw them but be useless in fights because our clones can’t deal with big zergs shouldnt be all a esmer can do.ill try to find a way to still be a good fighter and dangerous killer in wvw.

etiolate.9185:

Mesmers were always good in small skirmishes. However, if you try to run any shatter build into a zerg you won’t find it so effective. Clones don’t like aoe too well. As well, if you’re going to small skirmish then you might as well go power/shatter.

This is flat out false as I’ve been running my mesmer into enemy zergs since zergs began. Plenty of hits, plenty of confusion damage, zero glamors, plenty of loot bags. Very few, if any, downs or deaths (snaps to the mad skillz of my server of course).

Been roaming for awhile now, so far i find that as long as there is acouple of ppl with me i am ok as i have great survivablity and let the other ppl take them down. If i am by myself tho all i can acheive is a 5-15min fight with me not able to get their hp down past 40%. It is too hard to get confusion to do 1k dmg, most of the time i see 126 damage and it get proc 3-4times.

The only way i see me killing anyone by myself now is to spend some money on gear and go glass cannon. Please do something to help out mesmers Anet, we are very limited now and not balanced

QualityApproved.1286:

Been roaming for awhile now, so far i find that as long as there is acouple of ppl with me i am ok as i have great survivablity and let the other ppl take them down. If i am by myself tho all i can acheive is a 5-15min fight with me not able to get their hp down past 40%. It is too hard to get confusion to do 1k dmg, most of the time i see 126 damage and it get proc 3-4times.

The only way i see me killing anyone by myself now is to spend some money on gear and go glass cannon. Please do something to help out mesmers Anet, we are very limited now and not balanced

^pretty much this… We also have crap condi cleanses… GOOD kittenING JOB ANET! I wouldn’t be so upset if they also didn’t screw over blinding befuddlement. I also checked and when you use it in if the target attacks (losing the blind) the ICD still exists… So reapplying blind will not reapply confusion… WHICH IS STUPID!

The confusion nerf itself isnt really the issue. The problem created now is the condition mesmer is now crappy compared to a shatter build, Even when I used to run a shatter build with high 2900 toughness I could kill so much faster.

If you try to use confusion against intelligent players then your confusion now hardly makes a dent becuase he stops attacking after the first hit, so your left with your conditions which are basically pretty bad compared to other condition classes.

The only players that died quickly before the nerf where those noobs that kept attacking till they died.

Thedenofsin.7340:

It’s way over the top for WvW. It makes these builds as effective as they are in sPvP (which is not effective).

Bad change is bad. Revert the nerf!

What about the players above who say their enemies still die mightly fine?
(WvW is not like sPvP, the 1v1 potential is close to meaningless)

. Confusion was only ever an issue for bad players.
[/quote]

Fact!

wedo.3049:

I also have 1854 condi dmg without stacks, and 42% crit

Is 1854 your base condition damage?
because i have full exotic rabid gear(with run of the undead), weapons and accessories and i just reach about 1600 base condition damage. My build is 0/20/20/0/30.
Is there something i am doing wrong?

saintange.5816:

wedo.3049:

I also have 1854 condi dmg without stacks, and 42% crit

Is 1854 your base condition damage?
because i have full exotic rabid gear(with run of the undead), weapons and accessories and i just reach about 1600 base condition damage. My build is 0/20/20/0/30.
Is there something i am doing wrong?

You could put 25 points in Chaos for the minor trait Chaotic Transference which gives you 5% toughness as a bonus to condition damage.

saintange.5816:

wedo.3049:

I also have 1854 condi dmg without stacks, and 42% crit

Is 1854 your base condition damage?
because i have full exotic rabid gear(with run of the undead), weapons and accessories and i just reach about 1600 base condition damage. My build is 0/20/20/0/30.
Is there something i am doing wrong?

Getting 25 in chaos boosts your condition damage even more than going to 30 in illusions (another +5% of toughness goes to condition damage). He’s also probably using consumables so that is likely his amount with the usage of those foods.

Whilst I wouldn’t deny that this nerf was harsh, I would observe that on their podcast, either Kylia or Pyroatheist said that their guild was running W3 with something like a 50-75% glamour mesmer count… That strikes me as a sure sign something is too powerful….
Edit: I’ve played mesmer since BW3 – its my main and favorite class by far…

Nordic Natedog.4360:

Getting 25 in chaos boosts your condition damage even more than going to 30 in illusions (another +5% of toughness goes to condition damage).

I too run with over 6000 toughness on my build.

The following are two common scenarios found in WvW post 4/30 patch:

Scenario #1:
1 – Fight is engaged
2 – The enemy is bad (because lets face it, bad is bad) and has no idea how to engage the mesmer class. Runs in circles flailing at every clone he/she sees and after 30 seconds is dead from weak confusion damage and an inconsistent stack of 4-8 bleeds proc’d from the staff.

Scenario #2
1 – Fight is engaged
2 – The enemy has a medium of common sense (doesn’t drool on the keyboard) and immediately recognizes the condition build. The enemy laughs to himself/herself and either a) powers right through our limp wristed confusion damage (so little damage it is no longer a deterrent) and bursts the condition spec’d mesmer into the earth or b) continues to laugh to himself/herself keyboard turns and walks away. I say walks away because the enemy knows we are spec’d for condition damage, we have no direct damage (190-240 from staff, 200-300 from scepter,) all are slow moving projectiles, slow animation/cast time, and our primary condition (confusion) is not doing any damage because as we all know CONFUSION DOES NO DAMAGE UNLESS A SKILL IS ACTIVATED.

Pre-4/30 patch condition mesmers could at least work to catch an enemy off guard with a punishing confusion burst to put them on their heels and alter the course of an altercation. Now the damage is laughable. Just as it is in sPvP.

The condition Mesmer is dead effective 4/30/13.

Mice.8921:

Whilst I wouldn’t deny that this nerf was harsh, I would observe that on their podcast, either Kylia or Pyroatheist said that their guild was running W3 with something like a 50-75% glamour mesmer count… That strikes me as a sure sign something is too powerful….
Edit: I’ve played mesmer since BW3 – its my main and favorite class by far…

Well we ran that many as that was the group composition we ended up with I seem to attract mesmers on my server (who knows why!) and of course adapted my group composition to match. Was it because it was too powerful? More because those were the classes we were dealt

I think I died a little when I logged on tonight and saw the damage on cry of frustration at 180, time to number crunch and see if there is any way to salvage an awesome game mechanic that is unique to GW2.

kylia.4813:

Mice.8921:

Whilst I wouldn’t deny that this nerf was harsh, I would observe that on their podcast, either Kylia or Pyroatheist said that their guild was running W3 with something like a 50-75% glamour mesmer count… That strikes me as a sure sign something is too powerful….
Edit: I’ve played mesmer since BW3 – its my main and favorite class by far…

Well we ran that many as that was the group composition we ended up with I seem to attract mesmers on my server (who knows why!) and of course adapted my group composition to match. Was it because it was too powerful? More because those were the classes we were dealt

I think I died a little when I logged on tonight and saw the damage on cry of frustration at 180, time to number crunch and see if there is any way to salvage an awesome game mechanic that is unique to GW2.

I think my point stands regardless… but they probably could have changed it without entirely curbstomping confusion mesmers IMHO….

kylia.4813:

Mice.8921:

Whilst I wouldn’t deny that this nerf was harsh, I would observe that on their podcast, either Kylia or Pyroatheist said that their guild was running W3 with something like a 50-75% glamour mesmer count… That strikes me as a sure sign something is too powerful….
Edit: I’ve played mesmer since BW3 – its my main and favorite class by far…

Well we ran that many as that was the group composition we ended up with I seem to attract mesmers on my server (who knows why!) and of course adapted my group composition to match. Was it because it was too powerful? More because those were the classes we were dealt

I think I died a little when I logged on tonight and saw the damage on cry of frustration at 180, time to number crunch and see if there is any way to salvage an awesome game mechanic that is unique to GW2.

Hey Kylia, were you in WvW last night? We were on TCBL, ran across a AVTR group near Bay/Briar/Vale (still a bunch running glamour looks like)… for those that are saying confusion is ok… as a mesmer, I completely ignored both confusion and retaliation, didn’t even have to think, and never died while fighting one of the premier (IMO) glamour mesmer groups in the game. I kept skill spamming, saw pink numbers poofing doing next to nothing to me, and the group heals negated the effect completely.

Bottom line, IMHO, confusion in its current state isn’t good for anything other than supplemental damage and/or tagging people in WvW. It certainly doesn’t make a difference in a fight.

Dhampyr.2104:

Bottom line, IMHO, confusion in its current state isn’t good for anything other than supplemental damage and/or tagging people in WvW. It certainly doesn’t make a difference in a fight.

This sums it up. Confusion no longer has any dynamic effect, no sustaining power or creative deterrence. It is an after thought.

Dhampyr.2104:

Bottom line, IMHO, confusion in its current state isn’t good for anything other than supplemental damage and/or tagging people in WvW. It certainly doesn’t make a difference in a fight.

I wish that was true… my confusion no longer does enough damage to tag people in WvW, I just flat out don’t get credit for kills anymore, can’t stack up enough damage on people with it.

Meh, I tried my 20/0/20/0/30 Carrion build the other morning.

(I really liked the retaliation floater’s.)

I killed a few people the morning of the patch and it wasn’t as bad as i thought it would be.

That being said I really can’t justify running a condi build any more when I can do 3x’s the damage in a instant and I don’t have to rely on bad play to get my damage.

Confusion builds I think will still be able to 1v1 but you’re relying even more so now on the other player being kinda bad.

OR

I can just run zerker and blow everything up.

Seems like a obvious choice assuming your like me and like to kill stragglers.

I think if they buffed confusion by 15% it would be in a viable spot. 20% and I have no doubt it would be viable again.

I usually try not to get on board the train of despair, but I have to say that I’m not sure this is just another nerf that people will adjust to and get on with another viable build. Mesmers can still do fine in pve and pvp, but in wvw, especially on a tier one or two server, I’m just not optimistic at the moment that Mesmers are nearly as viable. Even top shatter-build Mesmer players like Osicat usually fight in small groups in wvw, but in actual every day play most people on the top tiers run in large groups and stick to a commander, keeping tight formation, and I just don’t see shatter builds generally doing as well in such situations. I’ll reserve final judgment, but at the moment I confess to being more than a little pessimistic. You always see a lot of players threatening to quit playing a class after any major nerf, but I persoanlly know of several Mesmers who very likely WILL quit playing the class in wvw, except maybe for when they’re absolutely needed for the group/guild, for portals mainly, of course.

Ghanto.9784:

I usually try not to get on board the train of despair, but I have to say that I’m not sure this is just another nerf that people will adjust to and get on with another viable build. Mesmers can still do fine in pve and pvp, but in wvw, especially on a tier one or two server, I’m just not optimistic at the moment that Mesmers are nearly as viable. Even top shatter-build Mesmer players like Osicat usually fight in small groups in wvw, but in actual every day play most people on the top tiers run in large groups and stick to a commander, keeping tight formation, and I just don’t see shatter builds generally doing as well in such situations. I’ll reserve final judgment, but at the moment I confess to being more than a little pessimistic. You always see a lot of players threatening to quit playing a class after any major nerf, but I persoanlly know of several Mesmers who very likely WILL quit playing the class in wvw, except maybe for when they’re absolutely needed for the group/guild, for portals mainly, of course.

While it’s always hard to except a nerf it’s not so bad that anyone should quit over it. Mesmer’s are still one of the best classes even with the nerf.

I just take it as a opportunity to become a better player. I can’t call myself good at games if I let some nerf stop me from ROFLSTOMPING people.

jportell.2197:

Im not as peeved about the confusion nerf as the blinding befuddlement trait being hit… But we’ll see when I play later.

Haven’t played my mes yet since patch but this is the change that leaves me confused (haha, get it?). Why bother having synergy with Dazzling Glamours a combo you need to invest 30 points into Illusions, when you now add an internal cd to remove the synergy… ( w/o investments in condi duration ). The balance team seems to be obsessed with slowing down the game with their internal cds… Battles are starting to take WAY too long.

‘not that bad’ – wtf??? they had taken our main mechanics. if you read the introduction of a mesmer, so youll recognise that they “play” with the foes mind, so we are CONFUSING them! its like to take away the banners of the warriors, the poison of a necro, the health regen of a guardian or the stealth of a little thief!!
If we say " ahh, conf nerf wasnt that bad, but the skill will die now…." we dont have any resistance for any upcoming “balances”.
Havent you seen any mesmer playing conf build in spvp? i have a hybrid on conf and shatter, but its nearly useless in spvp and now in wvw.

we will loose our confusion and all other skills! i WONT take that!!

KnattyDreads.1856:

The following are two common scenarios found in WvW post 4/30 patch:

Scenario #1:
1 – Fight is engaged
2 – The enemy is bad (because lets face it, bad is bad) and has no idea how to engage the mesmer class. Runs in circles flailing at every clone he/she sees and after 30 seconds is dead from weak confusion damage and an inconsistent stack of 4-8 bleeds proc’d from the staff.

Scenario #2
1 – Fight is engaged
2 – The enemy has a medium of common sense (doesn’t drool on the keyboard) and immediately recognizes the condition build. The enemy laughs to himself/herself and either a) powers right through our limp wristed confusion damage (so little damage it is no longer a deterrent) and bursts the condition spec’d mesmer into the earth or b) continues to laugh to himself/herself keyboard turns and walks away. I say walks away because the enemy knows we are spec’d for condition damage, we have no direct damage (190-240 from staff, 200-300 from scepter,) all are slow moving projectiles, slow animation/cast time, and our primary condition (confusion) is not doing any damage because as we all know CONFUSION DOES NO DAMAGE UNLESS A SKILL IS ACTIVATED.

Pre-4/30 patch condition mesmers could at least work to catch an enemy off guard with a punishing confusion burst to put them on their heels and alter the course of an altercation. Now the damage is laughable. Just as it is in sPvP.

The condition Mesmer is dead effective 4/30/13.

Basically, this. Just went into WvW for a few hours, and that’s exactly what happened. Bad or new players died as usual, fights with good players lasted for several minutes and ended with a zerg interrupting or the enemy simply ran off.
Well, back to shatter/phantasm. I am really bored.

Really hope they gonna compensate the huge lack of damage for condition mesmers. As some already suggested, exchange vulnerability with poison on WoC.

Godmoney.2048:

Ghanto.9784:

I usually try not to get on board the train of despair, but I have to say that I’m not sure this is just another nerf that people will adjust to and get on with another viable build. Mesmers can still do fine in pve and pvp, but in wvw, especially on a tier one or two server, I’m just not optimistic at the moment that Mesmers are nearly as viable. Even top shatter-build Mesmer players like Osicat usually fight in small groups in wvw, but in actual every day play most people on the top tiers run in large groups and stick to a commander, keeping tight formation, and I just don’t see shatter builds generally doing as well in such situations. I’ll reserve final judgment, but at the moment I confess to being more than a little pessimistic. You always see a lot of players threatening to quit playing a class after any major nerf, but I persoanlly know of several Mesmers who very likely WILL quit playing the class in wvw, except maybe for when they’re absolutely needed for the group/guild, for portals mainly, of course.

While it’s always hard to except a nerf it’s not so bad that anyone should quit over it. Mesmer’s are still one of the best classes even with the nerf.

I just take it as a opportunity to become a better player. I can’t call myself good at games if I let some nerf stop me from ROFLSTOMPING people.

Okay, sure. That’s why rangers have always been in such hot demand for wvw groups, because every class, no matter what AN does to it, is just as viable as any other if spec’d and played right. Right?

Well, at least now Rangers might get a little more love, hopefully.

Dhampyr.2104:

kylia.4813:

Mice.8921:

Whilst I wouldn’t deny that this nerf was harsh, I would observe that on their podcast, either Kylia or Pyroatheist said that their guild was running W3 with something like a 50-75% glamour mesmer count… That strikes me as a sure sign something is too powerful….
Edit: I’ve played mesmer since BW3 – its my main and favorite class by far…

Well we ran that many as that was the group composition we ended up with I seem to attract mesmers on my server (who knows why!) and of course adapted my group composition to match. Was it because it was too powerful? More because those were the classes we were dealt

I think I died a little when I logged on tonight and saw the damage on cry of frustration at 180, time to number crunch and see if there is any way to salvage an awesome game mechanic that is unique to GW2.

Hey Kylia, were you in WvW last night? We were on TCBL, ran across a AVTR group near Bay/Briar/Vale (still a bunch running glamour looks like)… for those that are saying confusion is ok… as a mesmer, I completely ignored both confusion and retaliation, didn’t even have to think, and never died while fighting one of the premier (IMO) glamour mesmer groups in the game. I kept skill spamming, saw pink numbers poofing doing next to nothing to me, and the group heals negated the effect completely.

Bottom line, IMHO, confusion in its current state isn’t good for anything other than supplemental damage and/or tagging people in WvW. It certainly doesn’t make a difference in a fight.

Yep was around for a short period of time getting some video footage of multi confusion mesmers so I could review damage output at high stack levels.

Weird. Sorry, but for some reason I couldn’t see any posts in this thread until I created another reply – this one.