Guild Wars 2

dont care about confusion, BUT they nerf retalation AAAAAAAAAAA

kylia.4813:

Dhampyr.2104:

kylia.4813:

Mice.8921:

Whilst I wouldn’t deny that this nerf was harsh, I would observe that on their podcast, either Kylia or Pyroatheist said that their guild was running W3 with something like a 50-75% glamour mesmer count… That strikes me as a sure sign something is too powerful….
Edit: I’ve played mesmer since BW3 – its my main and favorite class by far…

Well we ran that many as that was the group composition we ended up with I seem to attract mesmers on my server (who knows why!) and of course adapted my group composition to match. Was it because it was too powerful? More because those were the classes we were dealt

I think I died a little when I logged on tonight and saw the damage on cry of frustration at 180, time to number crunch and see if there is any way to salvage an awesome game mechanic that is unique to GW2.

Hey Kylia, were you in WvW last night? We were on TCBL, ran across a AVTR group near Bay/Briar/Vale (still a bunch running glamour looks like)… for those that are saying confusion is ok… as a mesmer, I completely ignored both confusion and retaliation, didn’t even have to think, and never died while fighting one of the premier (IMO) glamour mesmer groups in the game. I kept skill spamming, saw pink numbers poofing doing next to nothing to me, and the group heals negated the effect completely.

Bottom line, IMHO, confusion in its current state isn’t good for anything other than supplemental damage and/or tagging people in WvW. It certainly doesn’t make a difference in a fight.

Yep was around for a short period of time getting some video footage of multi confusion mesmers so I could review damage output at high stack levels.

I’ve fought against high numbers of confusion/glam mesmers in ZvZ multiple times. It becomes just a gimic with too many. Easily countered by competent players.

Once they slap the confusion on everyone it gets called out and quickly cleansed (easily done as it’s generally only stacks of one condition type on the players). Then you pound face because they have little damage otherwise. Repeat and gg.

It worked far better when more of a variety was involved to where your opponent would have pressure on them by other classes (other conditions, more front line types on top of them) and the glam was used more as CC when they would try for a push.

skcamow.3527:

Don’t forget projectile combos through ethereal fields w/duelist phantasm. You can stack 15 easy in a very short time if using scepter MH (CI). Then come in with your next big stack using CoF and MW.

Maybe on a practice target. Real players will ofc dodge and avoid most of your attacks.

OP & the dev fanboy club, I’m on Sea of Sorrows. Prove it. Prove its not that bad, I play in a skirmish sized group ‘3 players’ after a full nights testing I’ve got a lot of releases and a repair bill that says otherwise. Shatter spec is business as usual, confusion = I am waisting my, my groups, and even my enemy’s time.
Previously a thief would tread lightly with a confusion Mesmer, now I’m just free badges waiting to happen.

drongas.4189:

dont care about confusion, BUT they nerf retalation AAAAAAAAAAA

u sound a little selfish right there.i do actually care about both. for those specing into retaliation, they took a hit, but everyone that used condition dmg is underpowered right now.

we are all forced to move to a dps build and in my case 6 months 1700 hours playtime as a mesmer, are gone to wasete now as i have to grind new armor,weapons, sigils, runes and trinkets, that were btw all ascened apart from 1 ring that was still exptic. just bought my abyssal scepter….great now i need another 60g to respec because anet destroyed 80 percent of mesmer builds out there.

Confusion is still fine (if you’re not a glamour mesmer, I have no opinion on this cos I don’t play ZvZ). I’m still able to beat people easily… it’s slower but it still works.

Like the op stated, it’s not a faceroll build anymore – you need to time your confusion. Sceptre sucks now though.

@People who say “If confusion is so good and is fine, why do people not run confusion builds in spvp”. The reason they don’t is because it sucks in conquest game mode. It’s far too slow – spvp/tpvp is about being able to move fast, kill fast, or survive for a long period of time. Confusion builds tend to do none of those (unless you rely on stealth but that doesn’t help cap points)

FLIMP.8172:

Confusion is still fine (if you’re not a glamour mesmer, I have no opinion on this cos I don’t play ZvZ). I’m still able to beat people easily… it’s slower but it still works.

Like the op stated, it’s not a faceroll build anymore – you need to time your confusion. Sceptre sucks though.

@People who say “If confusion is so good and is fine, why do people not run confusion builds in spvp”. The reason they don’t is because it sucks in conquest game mode. It’s far too slow – spvp/tpvp is about being able to move fast, kill fast, or survive for a long period of time. Confusion builds tend to do none of those (unless you rely on stealth but that doesn’t help cap points)

In reply to your comment about slowness and how in spvp you need it to be fast… Your statement implies that you do not need this speed in WvW…

…WvW is also about killing fast.. infact the better the oppposing server (more communication, more players able to support), the more important speed of kill is, as reinforcements from the enemy side is the timer you are competing against.

pfft it doesn’t suck flimpy:P ill bother you later jerk haha, I use it to stack more confuse + shatter = dead

btw you are being trolled by a guy saying “i can win with one hand tied behind my back” yes anyone can beat noobs with any spec in game if the noob is bad enough. you will not beat another good player with a bad spec. i expect you to return by chest thumping soon. cya then.

FLIMP.8172:

Confusion is still fine (if you’re not a glamour mesmer, I have no opinion on this cos I don’t play ZvZ). I’m still able to beat people easily… it’s slower but it still works.

Like the op stated, it’s not a faceroll build anymore – you need to time your confusion. Sceptre sucks though.

@People who say “If confusion is so good and is fine, why do people not run confusion builds in spvp”. The reason they don’t is because it sucks in conquest game mode. It’s far too slow – spvp/tpvp is about being able to move fast, kill fast, or survive for a long period of time. Confusion builds tend to do none of those (unless you rely on stealth but that doesn’t help cap points)

Flimp check out wvw in a higher tier and then come back and comment spvp is nothing like wvw!

kylia.4813:

FLIMP.8172:

Confusion is still fine (if you’re not a glamour mesmer, I have no opinion on this cos I don’t play ZvZ). I’m still able to beat people easily… it’s slower but it still works.

Like the op stated, it’s not a faceroll build anymore – you need to time your confusion. Sceptre sucks though.

@People who say “If confusion is so good and is fine, why do people not run confusion builds in spvp”. The reason they don’t is because it sucks in conquest game mode. It’s far too slow – spvp/tpvp is about being able to move fast, kill fast, or survive for a long period of time. Confusion builds tend to do none of those (unless you rely on stealth but that doesn’t help cap points)

In reply to your comment about slowness and how in spvp you need it to be fast… Your statement implies that you do not need this speed in WvW…

…WvW is also about killing fast.. infact the better the oppposing server (more communication, more players able to support), the more important speed of kill is, as reinforcements from the enemy side is the timer you are competing against.

Yes you need it but not as much as in tpvp (lets ignore spvp). Like I said before, this is from a small scale perspective and not ZvZ

When I’m fighting in tpvp backup is just around the corner. You know for a FACT that they will come within 15 seconds ~ 1 minute. You either need to kill fast to avoid that back up, move fast to provide backup/escape from a lost fight or survive long enough to get your own back up whilst staying on point.

Unlike tpvp, no one is gonna call on VOIP/map chat and go “help 1 mesmer is killing me at insert <remote location>”. If they do, 90% of the time they’ll get ignored or backup will not arrive in a timely manner since the map is huge. The 10% who do make it are usually guildies, party members or random people who are nearby which leads on to the next point:

Your fights are hardly even – you’re usually outnumbered 80% of the time. The faster you kill, the less survivability you have. This means as the scale of “being outnumbered” rises, you as a glass canon become less viable. On average, it’s usually 1 v 3 or 4 and you’ll need something more balanced (not a bunker and not a glass canon) – mesmer condition/confusion builds (or my one at least) tend to fall in that category. Killing fast is great but not at the cost of dying quickly after.

selan.8354:

FLIMP.8172:

Confusion is still fine (if you’re not a glamour mesmer, I have no opinion on this cos I don’t play ZvZ). I’m still able to beat people easily… it’s slower but it still works.

Like the op stated, it’s not a faceroll build anymore – you need to time your confusion. Sceptre sucks though.

@People who say “If confusion is so good and is fine, why do people not run confusion builds in spvp”. The reason they don’t is because it sucks in conquest game mode. It’s far too slow – spvp/tpvp is about being able to move fast, kill fast, or survive for a long period of time. Confusion builds tend to do none of those (unless you rely on stealth but that doesn’t help cap points)

Flimp check out wvw in a higher tier and then come back and comment spvp is nothing like wvw!

I am on Tier 1… and I agree it’s completely different? What’s your point lol

FLIMP.8172:

selan.8354:

FLIMP.8172:

Confusion is still fine (if you’re not a glamour mesmer, I have no opinion on this cos I don’t play ZvZ). I’m still able to beat people easily… it’s slower but it still works.

Like the op stated, it’s not a faceroll build anymore – you need to time your confusion. Sceptre sucks though.

@People who say “If confusion is so good and is fine, why do people not run confusion builds in spvp”. The reason they don’t is because it sucks in conquest game mode. It’s far too slow – spvp/tpvp is about being able to move fast, kill fast, or survive for a long period of time. Confusion builds tend to do none of those (unless you rely on stealth but that doesn’t help cap points)

Flimp check out wvw in a higher tier and then come back and comment spvp is nothing like wvw!

I am on Tier 1… and I agree it’s completely different? What’s your point lol

then u should know that certain builds are not useful in spvp but useful in wvw. and a lot of builds are great forspvp but useless in wvw.

selan.8354:

FLIMP.8172:

selan.8354:

FLIMP.8172:

Confusion is still fine (if you’re not a glamour mesmer, I have no opinion on this cos I don’t play ZvZ). I’m still able to beat people easily… it’s slower but it still works.

Like the op stated, it’s not a faceroll build anymore – you need to time your confusion. Sceptre sucks though.

@People who say “If confusion is so good and is fine, why do people not run confusion builds in spvp”. The reason they don’t is because it sucks in conquest game mode. It’s far too slow – spvp/tpvp is about being able to move fast, kill fast, or survive for a long period of time. Confusion builds tend to do none of those (unless you rely on stealth but that doesn’t help cap points)

Flimp check out wvw in a higher tier and then come back and comment spvp is nothing like wvw!

I am on Tier 1… and I agree it’s completely different? What’s your point lol

then u should know that certain builds are not useful in spvp but useful in wvw. and a lot of builds are great forspvp but useless in wvw.

Yes. We’re on the same side buddy

I said confusion builds (my one at least) works in WvW but sucks in sPvP.

FLIMP.8172:

selan.8354:

FLIMP.8172:

selan.8354:

FLIMP.8172:

Confusion is still fine (if you’re not a glamour mesmer, I have no opinion on this cos I don’t play ZvZ). I’m still able to beat people easily… it’s slower but it still works.

Like the op stated, it’s not a faceroll build anymore – you need to time your confusion. Sceptre sucks though.

@People who say “If confusion is so good and is fine, why do people not run confusion builds in spvp”. The reason they don’t is because it sucks in conquest game mode. It’s far too slow – spvp/tpvp is about being able to move fast, kill fast, or survive for a long period of time. Confusion builds tend to do none of those (unless you rely on stealth but that doesn’t help cap points)

Flimp check out wvw in a higher tier and then come back and comment spvp is nothing like wvw!

I am on Tier 1… and I agree it’s completely different? What’s your point lol

then u should know that certain builds are not useful in spvp but useful in wvw. and a lot of builds are great forspvp but useless in wvw.

Yes. We’re on the same side buddy

I said confusion builds (my one at least) works in WvW but sucks in sPvP.

yup same here first time i tried spvp with my build i got destroyed.lol

The nerf to the confusion is just ridicolous. When people claim to have 15-21+ stacks of confusion on an enemy, they fail to mention, that these stacks are not applied at the same time. So the 15-21 stacks will only be on the enemy for VERY short time. When you are running a confusion build, as someone already pointed out, the effective no of stacks are usually around 6-8, and those stacks last for a ridiculously short time.

Then we have the (haha) ‘buf’ to mantra casting time. The mantra mesmer is still a joke. You can use it as a healer in a big zerg, but that’s it. No loot bags for the mesmer doing the healing.

If you want some loot bags, what’s left is the power/prec/crit shatter mesmer. All other builds are inferior to this build, when it comes to getting the enemy down.

I still play other builds, but only when I do solo random spvp, to have some fun/challenge.

Jackums.3496:

Carighan.6758:

Thedenofsin.7340:

It’s way over the top for WvW. It makes these builds as effective as they are in sPvP (which is not effective).

Bad change is bad. Revert the nerf!

What about the players above who say their enemies still die mightly fine?
(WvW is not like sPvP, the 1v1 potential is close to meaningless)

They’re lying, delusional, or fighting terrible players.

Exactly. No skilled player will have ANY problem with a confusion mesmer.

if anyone is playing a glamour spec and says its fine.. you may not notice how hard you are being carried by your zerg. obviously you are getting loot bags and patting yourself on the back but all your spec is doing is tagging people that someone else is killing for you.

zaxon.6819:

if anyone is playing a glamour spec and says its fine.. you may not notice how hard you are being carried by your zerg. obviously you are getting loot bags and patting yourself on the back but all your spec is doing is tagging people that someone else is killing for you.

Well said.

zaxon.6819:

if anyone is playing a glamour spec and says its fine.. you may not notice how hard you are being carried by your zerg. obviously you are getting loot bags and patting yourself on the back but all your spec is doing is tagging people that someone else is killing for you.

As a glam mesmer, aren’t you still blinding people within a specific area multiple times? Aren’t you reflecting projectiles back onto the attackers and protecting your allies? Aren’t you tearing off boons from the attackers while removing conditions off your allies? And while you’re doing that, aren’t you still doing at least some damage on top of all that with confusion?

I’m not defending the nerfs, I hate them (esp the blinding befuddlement nerf). But to say glam mesmers are useless and are being carried and only useful for tagging people is just silly and wrong.

MrInfinit.1864:

zaxon.6819:

if anyone is playing a glamour spec and says its fine.. you may not notice how hard you are being carried by your zerg. obviously you are getting loot bags and patting yourself on the back but all your spec is doing is tagging people that someone else is killing for you.

As a glam mesmer, aren’t you still blinding people within a specific area multiple times? Aren’t you reflecting projectiles back onto the attackers and protecting your allies? Aren’t you tearing off boons from the attackers while removing conditions off your allies? And while you’re doing that, aren’t you still doing at least some damage on top of all that with confusion?

I’m not defending the nerfs, I hate them (esp the blinding befuddlement nerf). But to say glam mesmers are useless and are being carried and only useful for tagging people is just silly and wrong.

Well said, and IMO, the points you make are valid. You’re still capable of doing something that helps as a glam mesmer. Unfortunately, if you’re looking at the support aspects and wanting to help the group, you’d probably be better off doing it as a support guardian or something like that. They help the group AND do much better damage/group control than a glam mes does in the current form.

As far as being carried… well, if all you’re doing is reflecting for a few seconds every 30, stripping a few boons every 30, etc… I kinda think the “being carried” tag fits a bit more than we’d like to see.

And yep, we definitely agree on the nerfs.

MrInfinit.1864:

zaxon.6819:

if anyone is playing a glamour spec and says its fine.. you may not notice how hard you are being carried by your zerg. obviously you are getting loot bags and patting yourself on the back but all your spec is doing is tagging people that someone else is killing for you.

As a glam mesmer, aren’t you still blinding people within a specific area multiple times? Aren’t you reflecting projectiles back onto the attackers and protecting your allies? Aren’t you tearing off boons from the attackers while removing conditions off your allies? And while you’re doing that, aren’t you still doing at least some damage on top of all that with confusion?

I’m not defending the nerfs, I hate them (esp the blinding befuddlement nerf). But to say glam mesmers are useless and are being carried and only useful for tagging people is just silly and wrong.

This issue is, you don’t have to spec to be a glamour mes to do most of what you just said. I can change out my utility skills for feedback and null field plus change my illusion mastery to glamours cause blindness and have everything you just stated. This while not running entire glamour spec. The only reason to spec for a glamour build was the confusion, which is utterly useless now.

When I ran my glamour build in the past, I’d see numbers 1k-3k on a regular basis with an occasional spike of 4k+ when someone decided to run through those fields without being cleansed (by himself or his fellow zergers). This is pretty much non-existant since now its 500-1k damage (usually on the lower side) with basically a cap of 2k. I’m better off just throwing iberserker out there now.

I thought the main points of a glamour spec would be -20% CD and +20% duration? Without those, you can hardly call it “specced for Glamours”.

MrInfinit.1864:

zaxon.6819:

if anyone is playing a glamour spec and says its fine.. you may not notice how hard you are being carried by your zerg. obviously you are getting loot bags and patting yourself on the back but all your spec is doing is tagging people that someone else is killing for you.

As a glam mesmer, aren’t you still blinding people within a specific area multiple times? Aren’t you reflecting projectiles back onto the attackers and protecting your allies? Aren’t you tearing off boons from the attackers while removing conditions off your allies? And while you’re doing that, aren’t you still doing at least some damage on top of all that with confusion?

I’m not defending the nerfs, I hate them (esp the blinding befuddlement nerf). But to say glam mesmers are useless and are being carried and only useful for tagging people is just silly and wrong.

u call 213 and a illusionary warlok that hits in total up to 1k another dmg?thats waht glamourmesmers scrifice. we choose to not use power but confusion instead. go spec it in spvp and try your direct dmg out.. chaosstorm hits for 213 per hit….yeah we are reflecting projectiles but every other build is doing that too if feedback is used.

I appreciate the thought that has gone into this thread. A great build has become one which is barely adequate, if that, and very ineffective against skilled players. Another major aspect to this nerf is that many of the combo effects associated with ethereal fields are confusion based. When playing my ranger I always appreciated the ability to stack confusion with my projectile finishers.

the main reason for blind in a glamour build is to apply more confusion not to actually blind that is just a side product. reflecting/ boon stripping are utility that are also a side product of using a field that should be laying out more of your confusion. they are not the point of the build either. if you want to be a buff bot im sure you would not take half of the traits you do in a glamour spec.

zaxon.6819:

the main reason for blind in a glamour build is to apply more confusion not to actually blind that is just a side product. reflecting/ boon stripping are utility that are also a side product of using a field that should be laying out more of your confusion. they are not the point of the build either. if you want to be a buff bot im sure you would not take half of the traits you do in a glamour spec.

I think they nerfed glamour confusion because of that. Glamour skills weren’t mainly used to get benefit of their actions, they were used to inflict confusion. For me, they fixed this, as glamour are supposed to be support skills and not an offensive weapon.

seems very silly. you dont fix something by making it worse. making it worse for glamour specs isnt going to make the abilitys more useful for other specs. noone is going to use it more because of this. there was no fix… only break.

For what I see from changes, they want confusion glamour not to be the main reason to use glamour. They want us to use glamour skills for what we can get directly from them, support.

It’s true that this fact kills an entire way to go for mesmers. At first, I thought it was just a nerf due to cryers, but now I see they wanted to go much further and rebuild glamour mesmer.

You can be as much upset as you want, but the fact is that confusion glamour mesmer is not a way to go from now. It is quite sad, cause it was a funny way to go.

when you say rebuilding something you mean tear it down and build it back again..

there is no building it back here just tearing down. there is no rebuild. if there was a future plan in giving us something back they did a crap PR job by not stating that as they upset half the mesmer community. best case scenario is that they only planned to destroy it but they will throw us a bone based on the uproar.. but i do not see “rebuild” in thier original plan.

To say that it wasn’t their intention to have glamours be a focal point to cause confusion is just ignorant and foolish. They gave us 2 traits in the illusion line that synergize together (glamour blind and blindness causes confusion). They also have glamours cause confusion when entering and exiting it. ANet’s intention that they would be used in this matter is very very clear.

If they wanted to nerf the glamour build to make it less powerful, there are many many ways to do that and have been discussed on several other threads. They took the easy way out and completely destroyed the viability of condition and glamour builds.