Guild Wars 2

Page Bug fix things~

The potential for high slow up-time is probably the biggest issue.

Slow just makes it harder for people to do anything; heal/cleanse/ even just return fire. Its a powerful effect so it shouldn’t be something that can be maintained. You can play around it, but in team fights its almost certainly a death sentence unless you have access to only the best escape tools.

Numot.3965:

The potential for high slow up-time is probably the biggest issue.

Slow just makes it harder for people to do anything; heal/cleanse/ even just return fire. Its a powerful effect so it shouldn’t be something that can be maintained. You can play around it, but in team fights its almost certainly a death sentence unless you have access to only the best escape tools.

But to get that uptime you have to maintain squishness. So it makes you easy to kill.

Scourge.1563:

Dude your fooling your self if you think its not OP I’m sorry its fun and all but its incredibly Broke.

Umm ok, let’s see what your reasoning is. It sounds like you’ve actually played one because it’s fun and all, so what makes you think it’s OP/broken?

I sat in a fight and was slowed 100% of the time while they have quickness and pop clones out faster then a mother on welfare.

You… sat in a fight… against a Mesmer… and were slowed while they got quickness… :/

So you didn’t actually play Mesmer and you just sat in a (double?) Time Warp while they did Mesmer things to you. Ok. Ok, maybe there’s some actual evidence.

I can not dump the slow so that in its self is broke. so I stand there with my thumb up my kitten and cant do anything.

YES. YOU SAT IN A TIME WARP. TIME WARP.

TIME WARP:
11 PULSES OF 1S QUICKNESS AND SLOW.

CHRONOMANCER: CAN DROP 2 ELITES.

2 TIME WARP:
11 PULSES OF 2S QUICKNESS AND SLOW.

YOU WERE SLOWED.

HE WAS QUICK.

YOU SAT IN A FIGHT.

HE SPAWNED ILLUSIONS.

I don’t get it…?

Its funny that you say that about the Mesmer that its cause no one knows how to fight them yet but I don’t have that problem with the other elite spec’s.

Have you considered pressing one of these keys, they might help you win the fight: WASD. Pick one, any one. And press it. If you want to get fancy, you can toss in a V. Woah. Woah, I’m sorry. It’s pretty far from that 1 key, you might have trouble. I suggest using your index finger to press it.

As for your other point… Ele has a support-oriented elite spec. Necro has a slow elite spec. Guard has a support-ish elite spec (deals damage while supporting).

So of the released elite specs, Necro and Mesmer have damaging elite specs and you’re taking lots of… damage… from them. You not being able to fight a Mesmer does not inherently make them OP. I know if I hop into PvP, I’ll get wrecked by any profession (I can’t really hold my own but I can bring people down with me). Does that make them OP? No. It just means I suck and need to play PvP more or gtfo (which I do, I gtfo of PvP).

this was also not just a few hours of Spvp this was from last night until now. So go ahead and think and justify it in your head but reality is that its broke and needs some toning down.

So you’ve spent from last night until you made that post which is 13 hours without sleeping constantly fighting Mesmers and not learning how to move out of Time Warp.

The only thing you even brought up being OP in that entire rant of yours was Time Warp, which Mesmers have without the elite spec. TW is strong, but it is not OP (unless you’re mixing it with teamplay forcing an entire enemy team to be slowed, immobilized, and punished). You also sat inside of it the entire time. How does that make Chronomancers OP?

This reminds me of someone the first day of beta who says he will report me for cheating because “speed hack”…

just to voice my opinion.

I agree with some people here. I think the slow outcome by chronomancer needs to be toned down a little bit.
Other than that, I find that chronomancer is a great spec in a right track so far.
Good job Robert Gee and the devs team

Also, is continuum rift supposed to be invulnerable?

ErickDntn.1847:

just to voice my opinion.

I agree with some people here. I think the slow outcome by chronomancer needs to be toned down a little bit.
Other than that, I find that chronomancer is a great spec in a right track so far.
Good job Robert Gee and the devs team

Agreed. I love the Chronomancer, but I do think the amount of Slow you can dish out is a tad OP.

Are you people complaining about Slow being OP actually doing this in spvp, wvw, or fractals?

Because while you can do this on dummies for sure, is this helping you against actual players?

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Are you people complaining about Slow being OP actually doing this in spvp, wvw, or fractals?

Because while you can do this on dummies for sure, is this helping you against actual players?

In PvP, just GS AA (which is not so hard to land) is procing crits fast enough to slow a lot. So yes, it does help against actual player.

Silverkey.2078:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Are you people complaining about Slow being OP actually doing this in spvp, wvw, or fractals?

Because while you can do this on dummies for sure, is this helping you against actual players?

In PvP, just GS AA (which is not so hard to land) is procing crits fast enough to slow a lot. So yes, it does help against actual player.

You are personally killing players with this yourself to know this is over powered and not easily over come. You’re not dieing 1v1 and killing players 1v1 with this?

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Silverkey.2078:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Are you people complaining about Slow being OP actually doing this in spvp, wvw, or fractals?

Because while you can do this on dummies for sure, is this helping you against actual players?

In PvP, just GS AA (which is not so hard to land) is procing crits fast enough to slow a lot. So yes, it does help against actual player.

You are personally killing players with this yourself to know this is over powered and not easily over come. You’re not dieing 1v1 and killing players 1v1 with this?

I’m neither playing nor dying from it (I’m having a lot of fun and a bit of frustration with a chrono-bunker build). I just realize that GS AA would proc well while I know it is rather easy to land.

Silverkey.2078:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Silverkey.2078:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Are you people complaining about Slow being OP actually doing this in spvp, wvw, or fractals?

Because while you can do this on dummies for sure, is this helping you against actual players?

In PvP, just GS AA (which is not so hard to land) is procing crits fast enough to slow a lot. So yes, it does help against actual player.

You are personally killing players with this yourself to know this is over powered and not easily over come. You’re not dieing 1v1 and killing players 1v1 with this?

I’m neither playing nor dying from it (I’m having a lot of fun and a bit of frustration with a chrono-bunker build). I just realize that GS AA would proc well while I know it is rather easy to land.

So please let’s keep this to actual player experience. Theory crafting on dummies doesn’t really help now does it? Asking for nerfs based on possibilities helps no one.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Silverkey.2078:

I’m neither playing nor dying from it (I’m having a lot of fun and a bit of frustration with a chrono-bunker build). I just realize that GS AA would proc well while I know it is rather easy to land.

So please let’s keep this to actual player experience. Theory crafting on dummies doesn’t really help now does it? Asking for nerfs based on possibilities helps no one.

I did start this thread precisely to avoid bad nerfs. And the best way to avoid bad nerfs is not to claim everything is fine if it isn’t but putting the finger on the things that are a bit too strong and keep the rest.

The trait “Lost Time” is a tough one to balance. Slow is powerful, so this trait can be made OP or absolutely pointless very easily.

I mean, sure, you’re slowing them but is it really worth it?

If all you’re contributing to your team is GS auto-damage+high slow uptime on a single target, then you might as well be an empty team slot compared to a mesmer actually playing.

The only thing I seriously hope is LEAVE ILLUSIONARY REVERSION ALONE!

I personally, selfishly don’t care what they do to other traits, but if they do something horrible like slapping an ICD on illusionary reversion before I even have a chance to play a kittening Chronomancer in the next beta, I will be very kittened off. >:(

Scourge.1563:

messiah.1908:

i am so amazed of the mesmer community

you scream op when ppl around dont yet familiar with the chrono concept

i played condi shatter and have fought necro and after i told him how to beat me with condition transfer he rekt me
i have played the same with dd ele diamond skin and staff ele and the new trait ele , condi cant touch them
guard the same

so yes bit more slow from shield block mainly but hardly infinite

F5 very tricky to use so far but getting the hang of it

so if you want another mtd nerf call it op based on noob ppl you were fighting who dont know yet how to counter it

chrono is still like any other mesmer cant handle cc and conditions

its nice trait line which make you choose correctly between dom/insp/ duel as it should

regarding power build chrono with de gives so much illusion up for fast shattering so the dmg is buff with GS. but they nerf the GS dmg a bit so…
with signet of the ether i use one trick pony to create 2 izerk they do dmg and i shatter and again 2 pops up . but again i use my heal to do that…

Dude your fooling your self if you think its not OP I’m sorry its fun and all but its incredibly Broke. I sat in a fight and was slowed 100% of the time while they have quickness and pop clones out faster then a mother on welfare. I can not dump the slow so that in its self is broke. so I stand there with my thumb up my kitten and cant do anything. Its funny that you say that about the Mesmer that its cause no one knows how to fight them yet but I don’t have that problem with the other elite spec’s. this was also not just a few hours of Spvp this was from last night until now. So go ahead and think and justify it in your head but reality is that its broke and needs some toning down.

dude i really dont know how you were perma slowed?

did the mesmer interrupted you so 3 sec slow and than just AA you with gs for more 2 sec slow ? – have you consider dodge
did the mesmer use well so 3 sec slow and you didnt dodge?
did the mesmer use time warp – and you didnt move out of it
did the mesmer use shield phantasm and you didnt kill them so got 3 sec slow

Don’t stand in the kitten is, like, the oldest MMO adage. Amazing that some people still haven’t figured it out.

Anyway, I think Silverkey does have a point about the interaction between GS AA and Lost Time. Dueling already gives us perma-Fury, more or less, so with Marauder gear it takes basically two AA cycles for a guaranteed Lost Time proc. Which you can then sustain indefinitely because you’re over the crit cap if you also took Danger Time.

Problem is, Spatial Surge is basically the only way we have to reliably proc the effect. So if you nerf Lost Time any further, it becomes nearly useless for any weapon other than Greatsword.

So, here’s what I think of Lost Time at the moment:

• It’s more useful for leading into a burst combo (Danger Time!) than for keeping up perma-Slow.
• Greatsword is already our best burst combo weapon, and it’s the best way to apply Lost Time as well.
• Master Fencer + Danger Time means we can easily reach the crit cap with only ~50% base crit chance. The rest of those stat points can feed into Power or Ferocity.
• Combining the above points, I think the specific interaction between GS AA and Lost Time might be a little over the top, even if Lost Time isn’t necessarily OP in general.

Given all of the above, I think it would be reasonable to apply a short ICD on gaining Lost Time stacks. 3/4s seems appropriate, it would ensure that you can’t gain more than 2 stacks per Spatial Surge cycle while not hurting Lost Time application too much for other weapons.

tobascodagama.2961:

Don’t stand in the kitten is, like, the oldest MMO adage. Amazing that some people still haven’t figured it out.

Anyway, I think Silverkey does have a point about the interaction between GS AA and Lost Time. Dueling already gives us perma-Fury, more or less, so with Marauder gear it takes basically two AA cycles for a guaranteed Lost Time proc. Which you can then sustain indefinitely because you’re over the crit cap if you also took Danger Time.

Problem is, Spatial Surge is basically the only way we have to reliably proc the effect. So if you nerf Lost Time any further, it becomes nearly useless for any weapon other than Greatsword.

So, here’s what I think of Lost Time at the moment:

• It’s more useful for leading into a burst combo (Danger Time!) than for keeping up perma-Slow.
• Greatsword is already our best burst combo weapon, and it’s the best way to apply Lost Time as well.
• Master Fencer + Danger Time means we can easily reach the crit cap with only ~50% base crit chance. The rest of those stat points can feed into Power or Ferocity.
• Combining the above points, I think the specific interaction between GS AA and Lost Time might be a little over the top, even if Lost Time isn’t necessarily OP in general.

Given all of the above, I think it would be reasonable to apply a short ICD on gaining Lost Time stacks. 3/4s seems appropriate, it would ensure that you can’t gain more than 2 stacks per Spatial Surge cycle while not hurting Lost Time application too much for other weapons.

but the problem is when ever you see mesmer just using AA freely ? and if so great i can pressure him and he dont shatter me which can lead to more dmg
in team fight it rarely happens
so all is theoretical

You can’t nerf Time Lost without nerfing Danger Time as well.
One thing they could do is nerfing Slow to 33% instead of 50%.

So after reading this thread and the threads in the PvP forum, it appears that people think every single chronomancer ability is OP.

slow is very important skill which suppos to negate quickness dont forget it

as for now even me while testing it i tried to use in on the right time

against stomp
for ress
for burst

all other time it will just dont contribute

so yes if i see slow on me without me bursting or stomping or ressing i am ok with that

so ppl afraid of it now like the 2 stacks of torment trait because they have got time to get used to it and use it right

Not to mention Slow is super easy to take advantage of for the affected player. I believe someone already mentioned that channeled blocks and evades all are affected by slow, greatly increasing their duration. I haven’t tested this personally, but I definitely noticed a slowed Gear Shield lasting for quite a while longer than normal. IIRC, movement based skills(like warrior GS skills) travel much farther while under the effects of slow for some reason.

Should we not be asking for the GS AA to be adjusted INSTEAD of balancing our traits around it? They could just change the beam to hit twice and then increase the dmg to compensate. I’ll bet the GS AA was one of the factors in confusing combatants being removed entirely.

IDK about the rest of you, but i like using a variety of weapons.

Silverkey.2078:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Silverkey.2078:

I’m neither playing nor dying from it (I’m having a lot of fun and a bit of frustration with a chrono-bunker build). I just realize that GS AA would proc well while I know it is rather easy to land.

So please let’s keep this to actual player experience. Theory crafting on dummies doesn’t really help now does it? Asking for nerfs based on possibilities helps no one.

I did start this thread precisely to avoid bad nerfs. And the best way to avoid bad nerfs is not to claim everything is fine if it isn’t but putting the finger on the things that are a bit too strong and keep the rest.

The trait “Lost Time” is a tough one to balance. Slow is powerful, so this trait can be made OP or absolutely pointless very easily.

You should also avoid nerfs at all when they aren’t needed.

Let’s just cool down and not jump on the nerf train prematurely. If Chrono is OP, then we’ll think of something. If not, then no reason to give ANet unnecessary ideas.

Re: Lost Time

Actually, I went back in to check out whether permaslow is actually possible with the Spatial Time attack cycle. It’s not, even against golems, because the duration of the Slow is actually too short for that. You can produce quite a lot of Slow, but it definitely falls off. It’s actually kind of hard to even follow up with a burst because the Slow duration is so short — you might get Danger Time for Mirror Blade, but it’ll fall off before Mind Wrack.

If Lost Time ends up being too over the top, I think the appropriate nerf would be to reduce the Slow duration to 1.5s or so. But I also don’t think it needs a nerf at this point.

everyone likes slow spam better than quickness? if you can beat your enemy in a fight normally you want to kill them quicker with your traits.. not just have them kill you slower.

im kinda liking quickness res/stomp/mantra recharge/heal even.

slow=good.. but promotes lame game play to keep it up..

not lame meaning op.. lame meaning zzzzzzzzzzzz

tobascodagama.2961:

Re: Lost Time

Actually, I went back in to check out whether permaslow is actually possible with the Spatial Time attack cycle. It’s not, even against golems, because the duration of the Slow is actually too short for that. You can produce quite a lot of Slow, but it definitely falls off. It’s actually kind of hard to even follow up with a burst because the Slow duration is so short — you might get Danger Time for Mirror Blade, but it’ll fall off before Mind Wrack.

If Lost Time ends up being too over the top, I think the appropriate nerf would be to reduce the Slow duration to 1.5s or so. But I also don’t think it needs a nerf at this point.

When I first tested to see whether Spatial Surge applied Lost Time faster, I also checked whether it could keep permaslow, and whether I could actually make Spatial Surge competitive for damage via Danger Time+Berserkers.

On a single golem:

• I was able to keep permaslow easily with Spatial Surge, but not with any other weapon. Confusing Images and Blurred Frenzy both allowed some quick slow chaining, but it would eventually fall off.
• Even with Danger Time and at full range, spatial surge put out less dps than the sword AA in a regular assassin build. Close range it was pretty much no contest weaker.

Spatial surge slow is cool and all, but you’re honestly giving up a fair bit of dps to maintain it. (and that’s on top of the damage you’re already giving up by going chrono).
And using Spatial surge to enhance the Mirror Blade/Mind Wrack burst is silly, since Spatial Surge kind of gives up the element of surprise that makes that burst so potent.

All that aside, I’m with Mikkel. Everyone’s talking as though Lost Time is too powerful, but the real issue is that Spatial Surge gains stacks something like 3 times as fast as any other weapon.
Adjusting Spatial Surge would fix the odd interaction (assuming it’s even a problem), keep Lost Time worthwhile for every other weapon, and give them an opportunity to make Spatial Surge not suck anymore in the process.

ICD solutions nerfs Lost Time’s interaction with burst skills like Blurred Frenzy and CI, which I actually think are a good thing. Spatial Surge just happens to be a multi-attack skill packaged into an AA, which is the problem….again if it’s actually a problem, given the dps loss.

tobascodagama.2961:

Re: Lost Time

Actually, I went back in to check out whether permaslow is actually possible with the Spatial Time attack cycle. It’s not, even against golems, because the duration of the Slow is actually too short for that. You can produce quite a lot of Slow, but it definitely falls off. It’s actually kind of hard to even follow up with a burst because the Slow duration is so short — you might get Danger Time for Mirror Blade, but it’ll fall off before Mind Wrack.

If Lost Time ends up being too over the top, I think the appropriate nerf would be to reduce the Slow duration to 1.5s or so. But I also don’t think it needs a nerf at this point.

Now consider other game-modes, like wvw, where +100% condition duration isn’t all that hard (at the very least +60% is rather easy) and imagine how infuriating slow will be.

Of course, due to +40% food condis tend to be pretty OP in general for small-scale stuff, but still…

ehh its frustrating vs 1 target i guess. but wvw is a blob of people tab targeting and slowing 1 of them wont amount to much.. unless you go to wvw to duel which seems like a waste of time.

waiting and running around to fight 1v1 every 10/15 mins.. instead of going to pvp server and being able to grind fights as often as you want.

Far from it. It is a good viable build, but is still far out shadowed by the two current metas. It won’t over take the metas in its current state, but will be used predominately in PvE.

Lets be real here. Chrono is just straight up disgustingly overpowered and will need some adjustments for both nerfing and buffing.

-Slow needs to be less spammable as it is a stupidly good condi.

-Chronophant needs a pretty big nerf to not be so stupid.

-f5 needs to be 120 cd

-Gravity well should pull on the initial part of the skill

-Improved alacrity is a bit underpowered, but the standard alacrity is a little bit too much. Maybe nerf alacrity a little and make this trait have the current alacrity cdr.

-Seize the moment should be a little more unique and not just a boring quickness on shatter. Maybe drain endurance on interuppt?

Finally, remove Confounding suggestions from the game. There is no way to balance it effectively. It is either broken or useless. Also nerf pu to 33% stealth duration and make mass invis 6-7 seconds baseline.

Mesmers are masterful duelists but suffers in team fights.
Chronomancers are masterful duelists but suffers in team fights.

The problem with Chronomancer is it’s Mesmer 2.0, why not revamp F1-F4 to be manipulation focused shatters instead of damage still? Actually make Chronomancers more viable in team fights compared to their Mesmer counterpart.

@Nova Stiker
Actually, with chrono you can bring an amazing support to the team (think bunker guardian glowing pink)

Silverkey.2078:

@Nova Stiker
Actually, with chrono you can bring an amazing support to the team (think bunker guardian glowing pink)

But it’s still shatter spike 2.0

Nova Stiker.8396:

Silverkey.2078:

@Nova Stiker
Actually, with chrono you can bring an amazing support to the team (think bunker guardian glowing pink)

But it’s still shatter spike 2.0

Well that’s the thing, the bunker build I have in mind (similar to https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/bunker-chrono-theory-craft/first ) does not use shatter for damage. It uses it for healing, condi cleanse and boon support (incl. quickness). I don’t think “ooh let’s burst him down” I think “ok, my party needs might, let’s provide it”.

It feels amazingly different to play than all the mesmer builds I have played before.

Silverkey.2078:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Silverkey.2078:

@Nova Stiker
Actually, with chrono you can bring an amazing support to the team (think bunker guardian glowing pink)

But it’s still shatter spike 2.0

Well that’s the thing, the bunker build I have in mind (similar to https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/bunker-chrono-theory-craft/first ) does not use shatter for damage. It uses it for healing, condi cleanse and boon support (incl. quickness). I don’t think “ooh let’s burst him down” I think “ok, my party needs might, let’s provide it”.

It feels amazingly different to play than all the mesmer builds I have played before.

And yet Shatter Spike is better with chronomancer

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Lets be real here. Chrono is just straight up disgustingly overpowered and will need some adjustments for both nerfing and buffing.

-Slow needs to be less spammable as it is a stupidly good condi.

-Chronophant needs a pretty big nerf to not be so stupid.

-f5 needs to be 120 cd

-Gravity well should pull on the initial part of the skill

-Improved alacrity is a bit underpowered, but the standard alacrity is a little bit too much. Maybe nerf alacrity a little and make this trait have the current alacrity cdr.

-Seize the moment should be a little more unique and not just a boring quickness on shatter. Maybe drain endurance on interuppt?

Finally, remove Confounding suggestions from the game. There is no way to balance it effectively. It is either broken or useless. Also nerf pu to 33% stealth duration and make mass invis 6-7 seconds baseline.

You lost me when you suggested yet another interrupt trait. WTH IS WRONG WITH YOU.

Also, you apparently haven’t been paying attention, as The Pledge is adding a lot more stealth (with PU) than PU itself is. Fix The Pledge first, then reexamine PU later.

chrono makes mesmers who can play stronger.. pu makes mesmer that can not play stronger. i guess inspiration goes with the cant play theme..

mesmers pre patch played no condi clear glass cannons. if you could not play like that you still cant play chrono.. but you can play inspiration and pu.

point is.. it adds a side path for a skill cap. It is not a crutch as much as other paths can be.. So i think its a good thing not a negative like pu

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Lets be real here. Chrono is just straight up disgustingly overpowered and will need some adjustments for both nerfing and buffing.

-Slow needs to be less spammable as it is a stupidly good condi.

-Chronophant needs a pretty big nerf to not be so stupid.

-f5 needs to be 120 cd

-Gravity well should pull on the initial part of the skill

-Improved alacrity is a bit underpowered, but the standard alacrity is a little bit too much. Maybe nerf alacrity a little and make this trait have the current alacrity cdr.

-Seize the moment should be a little more unique and not just a boring quickness on shatter. Maybe drain endurance on interuppt?

Finally, remove Confounding suggestions from the game. There is no way to balance it effectively. It is either broken or useless. Also nerf pu to 33% stealth duration and make mass invis 6-7 seconds baseline.

You lost me when you suggested yet another interrupt trait. WTH IS WRONG WITH YOU.

Also, you apparently haven’t been paying attention, as The Pledge is adding a lot more stealth (with PU) than PU itself is. Fix The Pledge first, then reexamine PU later.

The only interrupt traits for Mesmer are power block, CI, duelists discipline, and delayed reactions. Having 5 interrupt traits would not kill mesmer at all, and would be a ability unique to chronomancer if they were able to drain endurance.

Also, without PU the pledge is half as effective. Theres no reason to nerf the pledge when PU is the real problem. Doubling all stealth duration is just way too much for one trait.

Everyone mentally prepare yourselves for a massive Chronomancer nerf. I actually don’t think Chronomancer is significantly OP, but the amount of crying on the forums won’t be ignored, and that sucks.

BWE2 Chronomancer will be completely useless, mark my words. It might get buffed up to “vaguely disappointing” from there by launch, but enjoy good Chronomancer for the next few hours while you can.

MMOs are depressing.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only interrupt traits for Mesmer are power block, CI, duelists discipline, and delayed reactions. Having 5 interrupt traits would not kill mesmer at all, and would be a ability unique to chronomancer if they were able to drain endurance.

Mistrust, Duelist’s Discipline, Chaotic Interruption, Illusion of Vulnerability, Furious Interruption, Power Block, Delayed Reactions.
That’s 7 traits already. The only line that doesn’t have at least one is Inspiration.

We have plenty of interrupt traits already, and the nature of the breakbar/defiance system makes them essentially worthless for pve. Your proposal is to take a trait that has use in both pve and pvp, and make it just another pvp-only trait. The kind of pvp myopia you are demonstrating is exactly the mindset that has left Mesmer so far behind in pve already.
Give a child a hammer, and everything looks like a nail…

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Also, without PU the pledge is half as effective. Theres no reason to nerf the pledge when PU is the real problem. Doubling all stealth duration is just way too much for one trait.

On the contrary.
1. The Pledge bugged. It is adding 3 times more cooldown reduction than it’s supposed to, which is the primary problem. Waayyyyy bugged.
2. The Pledge by its very design encourages camping in stealth to get the most out of the trait. The behavior that makes PU frustrating is being encouraged by the way The Pledge is structured.
3. The Pledge (unbugged) without PU is ridiculously underpowered. If you activate the pledge, decoy and Mass Invisibility (1 weapon skill, 1 utility and 1 elite) all at once, and sit through the entire 11 seconds (11! so OP!) of invisibility, you get a grand total of 16.5% cdr, which is LESS than the unconditional cdr on most pre-patch or non-mesmer weapon traits.
4. Even bugged, The Pledge without PU is hardly worth taking anyway. Using The Prestige and Decoy in succession, then sitting through all 6 seconds gets you 28.4% cooldown reduction. Having to spend a utility skill and not fight for 6 seconds is hardly worth getting an extra 8% cooldown reduction on two of the weakest (combat-wise) skills in the mesmer’s kitten nal. And of course, if you don’t feel like using your stun break (decoy) just to get cooldown reduction on The Prestige, you get a whopping 14.2% reduction on cooldown…with the bugged version.

The Pledge encourages anti-fun play by its nature, it’s provides much stealth uptime with PU, it’s too weak without PU, and it’s bugged anyway.

Fix the bug on the pledge, and there’s no contest that the thief has better stealth uptime than the Mesmer. Change The Pledge to a flat 20%, or conditional on something other than stealth, and you might just fix the stealth-camping issue entirely.

In short, you are wrong. There is EVERY reason to change The Pledge. If PU is really still a problem after that, we can make that determination later. AFTER we’ve first dealt with the first problem.

Edit: lastly, given your myopic focus on pvp, I’m surprised you even care about PU. It’s been well established that PU is a non-factor in pvp, its only use being as a decent defensive alternative to CI or BD if you find you need it.

Person asks the mesmer community if mesmer’s chronomancer is op , did you really think you’re going to get non-biased answers? It’s insane right now and of course asking the mesmer community, you’re never going to get a true answer.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Person asks the mesmer community if mesmer’s chronomancer is op , did you really think you’re going to get non-biased answers? It’s insane right now and of course asking the mesmer community, you’re never going to get a true answer.

Blitz, iirc you’ve been arguing as much as you can that mes is already op. If they fixed everything you think should be fixed on normal mes, do you still think chrono would be op?

The only really OP thing with Chronomancer is how it perpetuates the horror that is PU with The Pledge. I was testing this with a guild mate and it was…not something I’d like to see in the game come HoT. I recommend that Anet nerf/fix PU and The Pledge before Chronomancer hits. It’s a bit of giggle remaining almost indefinitely invisible, but I don’t think it’s going to be fun for…anyone that encounters it. I’m aware that the game is almost exclusively balanced for sPvP (which is a shame because it’s the least original part of the game) and remaining in stealth for so long is hardly beneficial in sPvP, but it would be nice for the sanity of the WvW crowd in particular that this combination is expunged before it starts turning people away.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Person asks the mesmer community if mesmer’s chronomancer is op , did you really think you’re going to get non-biased answers? It’s insane right now and of course asking the mesmer community, you’re never going to get a true answer.

These days, after getting tired of constant nerf cries, Mesmers have been proactive in asking for deserved nerfs. Trust me: the things about Chronomancer that need toning down have already been asked for and discussed by Mesmers in the feedback thread.

The things that won’t get traction are the cries of “remove Continuum Split!” and “give Chronophantasma a long enough ICD that it’s actually useless!” Guess what the threads that get shouted down ask for?

I played a lot chrono and i can say F5 is a little too much with elite skills. I think it shouldn’t work with elite, is really too strong I can use Elite skills twice in a row (and Mesmer has really strong elites, like MoA for pvp).

And ) Agree there is too much slow.

The combination with alacrity, F5, PU, torch reduction cd in stealth and stealth itself makes amazing combo stealth, really superior to thief.

So i think, like I said, F5 shouldn’t work with elite and PU is an old issue that needs to be fixed (like for example add 1 only more sec. to stealth skills or 33%)

Phil.8901:

I played a lot chrono and i can say F5 is a little too much with elite skills. I think it shouldn’t work with elite, is really too strong I can use Elite skills twice in a row (and Mesmer has really strong elites, like MoA for pvp).

And ) Agree there is too much slow.

The combination with alacrity, F5, PU, torch reduction cd in stealth and stealth itself makes amazing combo stealth, really superior to thief.

So i think, like I said, F5 shouldn’t work with elite and PU is an old issue that needs to be fixed (like for example add 1 only more sec. to stealth skills or 33%)

Well, at least people are acknowledging that the torch trait is involved.
Give it another couple weeks and they might stop trying to nerf PU before we see what fixing The Pledge looks like.

In pve a chron can use time warp with continuum shift and still put up less quickness than feel my wrath. Not gona happen. Even if you use your elite in pvp, your pretty much giving up your f5 slot to use the elite instead of shatter for more damage. Oh and ya, I agree that the pledge needs fixed as well. Don’t think it would necessarily be that bad if you can’t use elites in them in pvp. However, you definitely should be able to do it in pve.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only interrupt traits for Mesmer are power block, CI, duelists discipline, and delayed reactions. Having 5 interrupt traits would not kill mesmer at all, and would be a ability unique to chronomancer if they were able to drain endurance.

Mistrust, Duelist’s Discipline, Chaotic Interruption, Illusion of Vulnerability, Furious Interruption, Power Block, Delayed Reactions.
That’s 7 traits already. The only line that doesn’t have at least one is Inspiration.

We have plenty of interrupt traits already, and the nature of the breakbar/defiance system makes them essentially worthless for pve. Your proposal is to take a trait that has use in both pve and pvp, and make it just another pvp-only trait. The kind of pvp myopia you are demonstrating is exactly the mindset that has left Mesmer so far behind in pve already.
Give a child a hammer, and everything looks like a nail…

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Also, without PU the pledge is half as effective. Theres no reason to nerf the pledge when PU is the real problem. Doubling all stealth duration is just way too much for one trait.

On the contrary.

Perhaps I should be more clear. Those 4 traits would be the only 4 traits you could take in a competitive mes build. FI and mistrust are not even close to shattered concentration and DE. I mean, if you want to use every interrupt trait, you can. Good luck removing stab and all the boon spam though.

To your pledge and PU argument: I dont think you understand how strong PU is. I dont even need the pledge to outstealth a thief, because the second they leave stealth they will be interrupted and you can 100-0 them. If you cant find an opening with using prestige, decoy, and mass invis, thats on you.

Also, I never said the pledge needed a rework, I just said it didnt need a nerf. I personally think it should just be 20% cdr flat so there cant be any more arguments.