Guild Wars 2

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Perhaps I should be more clear. Those 4 traits would be the only 4 traits you could take in a competitive mes build. FI and mistrust are not even close to shattered concentration and DE. I mean, if you want to use every interrupt trait, you can. Good luck removing stab and all the boon spam though.

Please ask them to fix your toys before you ask them to convert one of ours into one of yours, then.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

To your pledge and PU argument: I dont think you understand how strong PU is. I dont even need the pledge to outstealth a thief,

Well, I haven’t pvped much on my thief, so I’m not very good, but here’s the stealth I can put out on my d/p build:
Stealth on steal: 4s
Hide in Shadows: 4s
Black Powder+Heartseeker: 3s per jump
Blinding Powder: 4s
Black Powder+Blinding Powder: +3s
Shadow Refuge: 15s after refuge ends

If I blinding powder into black powder then HSS, that’s 10s, then proc Hide in Shadows to get to 14s. That’s 2 seconds stealth less than your Mesmer so far.

Oh, but I have Shadow Refuge, which puts me at 15s on its own after the 4s for the refuge itself. I’m sure even if you buy into all the bull that Shadow Refuge makes the thief vulnerable, you’ll agree that 15s with potential to be disrupted is generally much more stealth than 2s.
Oh, but I can just black powder+hss any time I want, and I can still do the 3-hss wind-up if I need it.
Oh, and not forgetting that 4s off steal that I mentioned.
Some of these stealth sources have tells and counters, so it’s not as good, right?
Whoops, The Prestige explodes in flame exactly 6s after you cast it, and decoy has a history of summoning a clone when you really wish it wouldn’t.
You can claim to out-stealth thieves without The Pledge all you want, but as a rather poor pvp thief myself I can already see how I would outstealth you.
I’d really, REALLY like to see you try to outstealth an actually good thief without The Pledge, because I think you’re blowing it out your kitten on this one.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

because the second they leave stealth they will be interrupted and you can 100-0 them. If you cant find an opening with using prestige, decoy, and mass invis, thats on you.

If I weren’t turned to stone by their backstab, I suppose you might be right about that.
We often get after people coming in here complaining about mesmer but not knowing its mechanics, and here it really sounds like you don’t know thief mechanics.
SA thieves run Basilisk venom, so no, you don’t get to just interrupt them the moment they backstab you.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Also, I never said the pledge needed a rework, I just said it didnt need a nerf. I personally think it should just be 20% cdr flat so there cant be any more arguments.

Almost any change you could conceive of would be a nerf. Right now, getting at least 13s of stealth means getting 60% cooldown reduction on your torch skills.
Like the mantra fix, fixing the bug means nerfing the trait.
It needs the nerf, but I agree with you that 20% cdr flat would just be the best solution for everyone.

Well its obvious you are impossible to reason with so I am not even going to try anymore. You are in some illusion that mesmer is fine, so I will just let you be. I guess you dont know you can blink into the bp to prevent them from chain stealthing or that i can use iwave to knock them out of SR or he uses steal in stealth he reveals himself. Besides, if the thief never attacks and perma stealths, he is useless. If you want to show me how I am wrong, please duel me and show me the error of my ways.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Well its obvious you are impossible to reason with so I am not even going to try anymore.
You are in some illusion that mesmer is fine, so I will just let you be.

Bro, what the kitten are you talking about?
You called for PU nerfs, I suggested they nerf/fix The Pledge and reevaluate. That’s so far from “it’s fine” they’re not even in the same zip code.
Further, my complaints about your other suggestions were largely about how inappropriate your solutions were, not that there’s no changes needed.
You’ve gotta be delusional to draw this conclusion from what I said.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I guess you dont know you can blink into the bp to prevent them from chain stealthing or that i can use iwave to knock them out of SR or he uses steal in stealth he reveals himself.

And the thief can dodge your iwave, and when you use your main stun break to foil his stealth combo you shouldn’t be surprised when he backstabs you and turns you to stone. Oh, but then you can use decoy…so he uses SR… That’s what the whole tactical game is about! Thief stealth tends to be more complicated, with more options for counterplay, but then thieves get more tools to deal with that counterplay. They also get a LOT more direct benefits from stealth, like extra damage from stealth or reduced damage while in stealth.

Your claim, though, was that you can out-stealth a thief without The Pledge. I showed you numbers why that’s not true, you responded by implying I’m just not listening to reason, and by making a patently false assumption about my beliefs.
Cast all the aspersions you want, but that finger you’re pointing applies much better to your response than to mine.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Besides, if the thief never attacks and perma stealths, he is useless.

Dude, you are the one who was making claims about how important it is to nerf long Mesmer stealth via PU!

Let’s take that statement of yours and turn it around, shall we?
“Besides, if the Mesmer never attacks and perma stealths, he is useless.”

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If you want to show me how I am wrong, please duel me and show me the error of my ways.

That’s just as inane as the idea that a criminal could prove his innocence through trial by combat.
Deciding who’s right by who’s the better pvper? Really?
Now who’s unwilling to be convinced?

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If you want to show me how I am wrong, please duel me and show me the error of my ways.

That’s just as inane as the idea that a criminal could prove his innocence through trial by combat.
Deciding who’s right by who’s the better pvper? Really?
Now who’s unwilling to be convinced?

I want to see you fly!

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Well its obvious you are impossible to reason with so I am not even going to try anymore.
You are in some illusion that mesmer is fine, so I will just let you be.

Bro, what the kitten are you talking about?
You called for PU nerfs, I suggested they nerf/fix The Pledge and reevaluate. That’s so far from “it’s fine” they’re not even in the same zip code.
Further, my complaints about your other suggestions were largely about how inappropriate your solutions were, not that there’s no changes needed.
You’ve gotta be delusional to draw this conclusion from what I said.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I guess you dont know you can blink into the bp to prevent them from chain stealthing or that i can use iwave to knock them out of SR or he uses steal in stealth he reveals himself.

And the thief can dodge your iwave, and when you use your main stun break to foil his stealth combo you shouldn’t be surprised when he backstabs you and turns you to stone. Oh, but then you can use decoy…so he uses SR… That’s what the whole tactical game is about! Thief stealth tends to be more complicated, with more options for counterplay, but then thieves get more tools to deal with that counterplay. They also get a LOT more direct benefits from stealth, like extra damage from stealth or reduced damage while in stealth.

Your claim, though, was that you can out-stealth a thief without The Pledge. I showed you numbers why that’s not true, you responded by implying I’m just not listening to reason, and by making a patently false assumption about my beliefs.
Cast all the aspersions you want, but that finger you’re pointing applies much better to your response than to mine.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Besides, if the thief never attacks and perma stealths, he is useless.

Dude, you are the one who was making claims about how important it is to nerf long Mesmer stealth via PU!

Let’s take that statement of yours and turn it around, shall we?
“Besides, if the Mesmer never attacks and perma stealths, he is useless.”

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If you want to show me how I am wrong, please duel me and show me the error of my ways.

That’s just as inane as the idea that a criminal could prove his innocence through trial by combat.
Deciding who’s right by who’s the better pvper? Really?
Now who’s unwilling to be convinced?

Yea I just want to say im sorry. I just didnt have the best day ever and didnt see what you were trying to say. I do think they need to look at both pu and the pledge. I also meant to say that we can never outstealth a thief, but we have enough stealth to regain cds if a thief hits us hard. We wont outstealth them, but we have just enough now to not be out of stealth for too long. Sorry for getting unreasonable ^^

Rym.1469:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If you want to show me how I am wrong, please duel me and show me the error of my ways.

That’s just as inane as the idea that a criminal could prove his innocence through trial by combat.
Deciding who’s right by who’s the better pvper? Really?
Now who’s unwilling to be convinced?

I want to see you fly!

I’ll sort this out.

If you’re running the Chaos line and PU, you’re playing an inferior build in more respects than you’re not. This includes delusions that double ranged PU shatter is gonna produce best results.

As for Mesmer vs Thief matchup: Thieves smell. Mesmers are better.

There, done.

I like Chaos line, but I tend to go for CI…

Esplen.3940:

I like Chaos line, but I tend to go for CI…

It’s a great line.

I dunno about everyone else but I’m always running 3/3/1 although the staff trait is weird.

too much slow????

against who ou were fighting

ranger – slow pass to it pet, and got good cleanse abilities
ele – cleanse so fast
guard – the same
warrior – immune to conditions
thief – stealth
engi – tricky but can get out fast of fights
necro – trasfer back at you

its just another conditions with low duration in pvp (not wvw)

i could stack it for 6 sec on average player

i played condi build which the slow cames from phantasm and well and time warp

i played power build which the slow came from interupt shield and time warp

with power i could stack it 6 sec and i tried to use it when burst and when i wanted to interupt the heal

but if you just spamm it to stack it you doing it all worng

maybe for interupt reduce it for 2 sec .
AA gs i couldnt stack it as ppl mention it as it got 1 sec delay between them so its not worth it

i dueled pu mesmer and he won 8 out of 10. as he just set in stealth
i dueled thief and he won 5 out of 10. mainly cuase of stealth SR and me with no cd rdy (2 min fights)

i think slow is very good ability for bunker mesmer and without it bunker mesmer goona be in some trouble. i create 3 clones and save them as it reduce 9% dmg +33% from protection and slow also add to it.

the problem is not with the slow rather the huge fast combo mesmer has with gs alongside pu

@messiah.1908

Thieves shadow embrace shouldn’t remove slow when a thief is in stealth. Shadow’s embrace removes damaging conditions. So you are incorrect there, thieves must use a rune, a sigil, shadowstep, signet of agility, or sword skill #2 to remove slow.

Edit: or a trick if traited

Asudementio.8526:

@messiah.1908

Thieves shadow embrace shouldn’t remove slow when a thief is in stealth. Shadow’s embrace removes damaging conditions. So you are incorrect there, thieves must use a rune, a sigil, shadowstep, signet of agility, or sword skill #2 to remove slow.

Edit: or a trick if traited

correct- ss, withraw (if traited), sword#2. sitting in stealth just give him time to w8 till its ends

I only tested some builds for WvW raids and one build for WvW roaming and, if anything, I found Chrono quite disappointing.