Guild Wars 2

Hi, I’m intrigued to main mesmer for pve but reading that mesmer’s damage is low make me worried to one.

Can someone elaborate more? for example comparison with guardian since I main one?
Would there be any chance for mesmer to get better in HoT? Thx

PvE encompasses many aspects, which one are you referring to? Open map content? World bosses? Dungeons? Personal/Living Story?

In open map content I think mesmer does very well on it’s own. I play shatter mesmer for this area because it’s easy to burst a mob (or small clusters of mobs) down very quickly. However, this comes with using certain weapons and utilities all the time. I’ve learned that if I want to solo a champ, for example, I need to change my set up. I can keep the build, but I find staff is better than my greatsword for kiting purposes.

World bosses are always going to be extremely tough and will not die very quickly. There are zerg trains that go from boss to boss to boss for the better part of the day, so that will scale the event too. For some the bosses will lose their HP slower and others a little faster.

In dungeons… mesmer is a little lackluster as far as damage output goes. At least, that’s what other people have said, I choose not to concern myself with exactly how much dps I’m putting out vs a zerk 100easies warrior. I believe Pyro has said we are a utility class and it is for our utilities that parties tend to like us around. Being good in a party instance like this comes with practice. I do not personally care about the zerk meta so long as I am scrubbing you off the floor every two seconds.

As a mesmer I had some difficulty with living story. There are a lot of conditions in the new story and Mordrem hit harder than Risen do (at least I think so). I typically needed to change things, traits, armors, or utilities to improve my own survivability. I think at one point I even ran PU so I could stealth the last half of a story chapter (the attack on the Pact camp in the Silverwastes). I have significantly less trouble with my personal story. I do have trouble now and then, but for the most part it is easier to handle solo. I still tend to run shatter for it.

As to HoT changes, I’m not really looking forward to only being able to trait into three lines. I think we should still be allowed to trait freely, but c’est la vie. Even if I pay anet’s not really listening right? Given that I was in the beta yesterday, I think mesmer may do well or have a very difficult time with events. As I said for living story, Mordrem hit hard and they tend to apply a lot of conditions. In HoT we will see new enemies who apply equally many conditions and do hit quite hard. During the day it’s not so hard to move around in the HoT map, but at night the Mordrem numbers increase as they attack the different “rally points” on the map. I would say each event needs at least five people to complete successfully.

Tagging mobs … you’re going to be jealous of:

• Guardian with lootstick (staff)
• Elementalist with staff
• Engineer with grenades/flamethrower

These classes simply tag mobs so much better than everyone that many of us made alts of one of these for farming events back before Silverwaste was released.

Sustained Damage … if your phantasms aren’t being “whoops’d” to death, your sustain can be close to what the top-tier classes can do. If they are being “whoops’d” to death, your sustain will be more bottom-tier.

This usually doesn’t matter for most open world content. It’s more of an issue in dungeons.

Burst damage … Mesmer is great here … sadly most PvE content doesn’t require this … but, as previously stated, in open world it can be great. Personally, I run my bursty shatter build in Silverwaste so that I can quickly eliminate Menders, etc.. and it works well.

Utility … you’re a Mesmer … welcome to having tons of Utility. If you have complaints about this, then you are crazy or want some completely different form(s) of utility. We’re solid here and it’s currently our saving grace for dungeons/fractals.

Since you asked relative to Guardian … Guardian can provide a good bit of the same utility (reflects, pulls, group cleanse, group stability). There is a reason that Guardian has a firm place in the meta.

It’s too early to tell as numbers are all being tweaked and we haven’t seen all the new content, but Mesmer could end up performing better depending on those tweaks.

Alacrity could end up being wonderful as lowering cooldowns could become a nice thing to have or possibly a “must have” for some content … we simply don’t know.

Slow is in the same boat as Alacrity. It could be great for slowing down mobs that could be the PvE equivalent of a Heartseeker spam on steroids … or useless. We don’t know yet. It could end up just being a luxury but not necessary.

The Wells seem like they have potential for helping Mesmer with their current lack of AOE damage while also providing some additional CC to help control stacked mobs.

We know little to nothing about the damage of the Shield’s Phantasm, so can’t really speak to whether or not it will end up being useful for PvE … though the state of Alacrity and/or Slow could affect that as well.

Mesmer can do fine in PvE. It’s a far less forgiving class than Guardian, though.

If you already enjoy your Guardian, my recommendation for the safest option would be to stick with it. Guardian has been a solid part of every meta in the game since release and I don’t see any reason why that would change.

If you’re wanting to branch out … Mesmer is a blast … but only if you enjoy the actual class itself. As I’ve stated in other threads, the theorycrafter in me constantly thinks “why the **** am I playing this class when I could be playing …”, but every time I play my Mesmer is just “feel right” to me … though some things need some fixing.

Sebrent.3625:

Tagging mobs … you’re going to be jealous of:

• Guardian with lootstick (staff)
• Elementalist with staff
• Engineer with grenades/flamethrower

These classes simply tag mobs so much better than everyone that many of us made alts of one of these for farming events back before Silverwaste was released.

I do ok tagging with sword and on my ele I use daggers for lightning whip to tag (but only in dry top). To be honest, I think I swapped my mes once for ele/guard for world boss train (pre-changes to timers), and got more tags with mes than I did with the other two. I don’t really know what the difference was, aside from the class I was using ha ha!

Tagging a single champ is different than tagging waves of mobs.

I think GS with Mantra of Pain is possible some of the best tagging we can do. Especially if you’re running with the focus because it spawns right at the target and immediately begins its AoE.

Let’s also be jealous of every thief who isn’t stupid enough to run without a Shortbow. I swear, that is the most frigging useful weapon in the game. It’s super tactical and the blast/projectile finishers (plus a great poison field for mobs that heal — like the menders, etc.) make it clutch for group play.

Super jealous we don’t get a weapon like that.

PvE in this case is fractal and dungeon. I don’t enjoy guardian, it seems boring to me that’s why I’m looking for another prof. Ty for the input guys

Sebrent.3625:

Sustained Damage … if your phantasms aren’t being “whoops’d” to death, your sustain can be close to what the top-tier classes can do.

A buffed staff ele will do 14k to 16k dps. A thief will do even more. A fully buffed mesmer, in ideal encounter where all phantasms survive the whole fight, will do no more than 11.6k and probably less due to ramp-up time. If you lose your phantasms, you’re back to 5.5k dps… even with all offensive buffs still on you.

That’s pretty far from ‘top-tier’ no matter how you look at it…

Sebrent.3625:

Tagging a single champ is different than tagging waves of mobs.

I did tag waves! In Orr temple events! pout You don’t believe me! </3 My heart weeps.

@frifoxy
I’ll defer to you frifoxy. I haven’t crunched the PvE numbers nearly as much as you have … I largely appreciate that you have (lets me be lazier :-p)

@Calliope
I’m sure you did. But that Guardian, Engineer, and Elementalist near you tagged more ;-)

Pfffft, only if they were near me!

Lol. I’m sure you tagged mobs in Orr better than the Guardian, Engineer, and Elementalist that were in Lion’s Arch :-p

Sebrent.3625:

Lol. I’m sure you tagged mobs in Orr better than the Guardian, Engineer, and Elementalist that were in Lion’s Arch :-p

t.t You mock me sir. How cruel you are! sits in the emo corner dejectedly True I had a hard time at a temple like, say, Grenth, but I always did very well at Melandru.

In dungeons and fractals mesmer is a bit on the low side of DPS, but as long as you run with sword/sword and sword/focus it won’t be all that bad. The main reason you’d want to play mesmer in PvE is for utility, namely reflects and skips/portals. Mesmer is one of the better classes to carry inexperienced pugs through arah and fractals, because well timed reflects can make short work of many enemies, being able to portal inexperienced players past arah’s numerous trash mobs or the traps in the swamp fractal is really really useful, as is veil/mass invis for trash skips. Time warp can be a nice DPS boost to the party as well, but not gramebreaking like the might stacking that an ele can pull off.

In organized speed run groups, mesmers aren’t always taken unless extra reflect time or portals are needed to do a faster time. Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content. The other biggest problem is that phantasms are really fragile, and the HoT specialization system may nerf overall mesmer DPS due to changes in traits like empowering mantras, and changes to domination in general.

So in short, Mesmer is very viable in PvE right now, but not the best class for it in terms of damage.

Mesmer is very good, and shares a similar role to guardian.

You bring reflects, condi cleanse, short stability, portal, stealth and some other niche utility. Time Warp makes up for their lower solo damage.

nearlight.3064:

Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content.

Not entirely true. Multiple guardians could bring enough reflects. A single guardian brings one reflect and a possible three absorbing domes. So, mesmer has them beat for reflects, we have access to four (using the signet heal to recharge warden for a quick 4th reflect), three base though, with traits.

Calliope.8675:

nearlight.3064:

Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content.

Not entirely true. Multiple guardians could bring enough reflects. A single guardian brings one reflect and a possible three absorbing domes. So, mesmer has them beat for reflects, we have access to four (using the signet heal to recharge warden for a quick 4th reflect), three base though, with traits.

He never said mesmers didn’t have more he said guardians usually have enough, which is true.

The thing is, a lot of the time you don’t need to reflect, simply nullify the projectile. Example, fire shaman, the pug killer.

If you find yourself in a group with 1 thief and 1 guardian then the Mesmer is not bringing much and generally is just not worth bringing over a warrior, ele, or well played engy or well played ranger.

All 4 of those offer better utility at easier access and more damage. By that I mean they aren’t reliant on their utility to get a damage buff like mesmers with mantras, they have water fields and cleanses without changing thier dps traits etc.

Generally due to the AoE behaviour and how hit and miss phantasm immunity to AoE is most of the time unless you’re a brilliant Mesmer you will be bottom of the damage ladder. Not by a little but by a lot and you would generally offer the same utility and do more damage as a guardian.

Don’t mistake this for I hate mesmers, I don’t, I would love to play it more but I have a regular guardian in my usual team comp already which takes care of most of what a Mesmer provides. Also Mesmer seems to be crashing my game due to a graphics bug so that’s another reason I don’t anymore.

Sadrien.3470:

Calliope.8675:

nearlight.3064:

Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content.

Not entirely true. Multiple guardians could bring enough reflects. A single guardian brings one reflect and a possible three absorbing domes. So, mesmer has them beat for reflects, we have access to four (using the signet heal to recharge warden for a quick 4th reflect), three base though, with traits.

He never said mesmers didn’t have more he said guardians usually have enough, which is true.

I singled out the word “reflects” in their post darling. That is something I want a newer player to be aware of. Mesmer has more of them when built for them. A guardian has absorbs, which is not a reflect. They only have one. So, by case of wording, they are not correct. Mesmer has more reflects than a guardian, but the catch 22 is they have to trait 4 points into Inspiration to get it. If you want to count it as who has more blocks, then yes, guardian has more.

Calliope.8675:

Sadrien.3470:

Calliope.8675:

nearlight.3064:

Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content.

Not entirely true. Multiple guardians could bring enough reflects. A single guardian brings one reflect and a possible three absorbing domes. So, mesmer has them beat for reflects, we have access to four (using the signet heal to recharge warden for a quick 4th reflect), three base though, with traits.

snip

I singled out the word “reflects” in their post darling. That is something I want a newer player to be aware of. Mesmer has more of them when built for them. A guardian has absorbs, which is not a reflect. They only have one. So, by case of wording, they are not correct. Mesmer has more reflects than a guardian, but the catch 22 is they have to trait 4 points into Inspiration to get it. If you want to count it as who has more blocks, then yes, guardian has more.

Also its worth mentioning that the warden and temporal curtain aren’t always easy to set up right to actually use for reflects, especially in pugs where people don’t stand in the right place to actually benefit from them a lot of the time.
He never said mesmers didn’t have more he said guardians usually have enough, which is true.

The higher reflect uptime would be actually worth something if all projectiles were reflectable. Unfortunately Anet has a history of instead of reducing the damage of these one shot projectiles opting to maintain the silly high damage and make them unreflectable. Thus avoiding mesmers instagibbing bosses etc.

Perhaps we should be asking for more consistency with enemy projectiles?

Pve really depends on what type of pve: open world, fractals, dungeons, or world bosses

I run 49-50 fractals so I only use reflect/phantasm with sword/sword/focus and know my role as a Mesmer is to provide utility through reflects and time warp. I already know my damage is not going to be top tier so speccing for reflects and assassins gear optimizes my ability to reflect for max damage and protect my team.

You need to look beyond just the raw damage numbers for mesmer and think more about utility. Come hot we will most likely be in high demand with shield because we make everyone around us better.

But the reality is, you can play any class in any pve scenario and perform fine. If you’re trying to min/max speed clears, look else where.

nearlight.3064:

Calliope.8675:

Sadrien.3470:

Calliope.8675:

nearlight.3064:

Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content.

Not entirely true. Multiple guardians could bring enough reflects. A single guardian brings one reflect and a possible three absorbing domes. So, mesmer has them beat for reflects, we have access to four (using the signet heal to recharge warden for a quick 4th reflect), three base though, with traits.

Also its worth mentioning that the warden and temporal curtain aren’t always easy to set up right to actually use for reflects, especially in pugs where people don’t stand in the right place to actually benefit from them a lot of the time.
He never said mesmers didn’t have more he said guardians usually have enough, which is true.

I singled out the word “reflects” in their post darling. That is something I want a newer player to be aware of. Mesmer has more of them when built for them. A guardian has absorbs, which is not a reflect. They only have one. So, by case of wording, they are not correct. Mesmer has more reflects than a guardian, but the catch 22 is they have to trait 4 points into Inspiration to get it. If you want to count it as who has more blocks, then yes, guardian has more.

Thankyou for adding the implied message to my quote !!!

Sadrien.3470:

nearlight.3064:

Calliope.8675:

Sadrien.3470:

Calliope.8675:

nearlight.3064:

Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content.

Not entirely true. Multiple guardians could bring enough reflects. A single guardian brings one reflect and a possible three absorbing domes. So, mesmer has them beat for reflects, we have access to four (using the signet heal to recharge warden for a quick 4th reflect), three base though, with traits.

Also its worth mentioning that the warden and temporal curtain aren’t always easy to set up right to actually use for reflects, especially in pugs where people don’t stand in the right place to actually benefit from them a lot of the time.
He never said mesmers didn’t have more he said guardians usually have enough, which is true.

I singled out the word “reflects” in their post darling. That is something I want a newer player to be aware of. Mesmer has more of them when built for them. A guardian has absorbs, which is not a reflect. They only have one. So, by case of wording, they are not correct. Mesmer has more reflects than a guardian, but the catch 22 is they have to trait 4 points into Inspiration to get it. If you want to count it as who has more blocks, then yes, guardian has more.

Thankyou for adding the implied message to my quote !!!

Oh I see, oops I’m a forum failure today hahaha