how much boon dur no Rev

how much boon dur no Rev

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Posted by: Ryn.6459

Ryn.6459

Hey
I want to gear up my mesmer, so, assuming no revevnt on the party, how much boon duration do I need in order to provide permaquickness?

Learning English, any correction is very welcome.

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Posted by: Step.1285

Step.1285

I’ve managed it with around ~45% (in Fractals; 30% from food/utility buffs and 15% from the Fractal Mobility Potion), but it’s VERY tight. I’ve also never tried it with Illusionary Inspiration, so using that might help.

EDIT: Can confirm it’s possible with 35%.

(edited by Step.1285)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Ok, so I typed up a long response, then reached an incorrect conclusion from my math. A couple hours of testing later, I can give some more information, but I’m too lazy at the moment to actually math this out.

Quickness stacks 9 times. The stacking behavior is a First in, First out list. Once the list has 9 entries, the oldest entry will be pushed out in favor of a new entry, with no preference given to duration. Signet of inspiration conserves stacks, and simply adds on your current stack list to everyone elses in the same manner as if you had manually applied each stack separately.

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Posted by: Step.1285

Step.1285

Quickness stacks 9 times. The stacking behavior is a First in, First out list. Once the list has 9 entries, the oldest entry will be pushed out in favor of a new entry, with no preference given to duration. Signet of inspiration conserves stacks, and simply adds on your current stack list to everyone elses in the same manner as if you had manually applied each stack separately.

I always wondered about this; good on you for testing it. Not sure I understand exactly what’s going on, though.

So if, hypothetically, the rest of my party had 18 seconds of quickness – one stack of 10 seconds as the “oldest” stack and then 8 stacks of 1 second – and I shared a single stack of 2 seconds with Signet of Inspiration, would that pop out the 10 seconds and push in 2 seconds, dropping everyone’s quickness from 18 to 10? If so, then in practice there are times when using Signet of Inspiration must do more harm than good, no?

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Quickness stacks 9 times. The stacking behavior is a First in, First out list. Once the list has 9 entries, the oldest entry will be pushed out in favor of a new entry, with no preference given to duration. Signet of inspiration conserves stacks, and simply adds on your current stack list to everyone elses in the same manner as if you had manually applied each stack separately.

I always wondered about this; good on you for testing it. Not sure I understand exactly what’s going on, though.

So if, hypothetically, the rest of my party had 18 seconds of quickness – one stack of 10 seconds as the “oldest” stack and then 8 stacks of 1 second – and I shared a single stack of 2 seconds with Signet of Inspiration, would that pop out the 10 seconds and push in 2 seconds, dropping everyone’s quickness from 18 to 10? If so, then in practice there are times when using Signet of Inspiration must do more harm than good, no?

That is correct, the stack does not care what the duration is. It simply pushes out old stacks in favor of new ones.

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

Heya,

Nope, it does NOT do that.

You simply become immune to quickness if you currently have 9 stacks. You cannot override it. Did you never notice that you wanted to share quickness with SoI and “immune” popped up everywhere? That’s when you want to share more stacks than they can hold. Otherwise skills like Time Warp could REDUCE your quickness wich would be silly …

Same thing for swiftness or stealth, etc.

You can sustain 100% quickness with 30% boon dura already. The trick is it to not spam your wells right after CS again. Always wait until your CS cd is around 65s, then continue with spamming wells on cd.

Never miss the concentration proc. If you don’t own concentration you’ll require around 60% boon duration.

Greez!

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

how much boon dur no Rev

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Posted by: Step.1285

Step.1285

Heya,

Nope, it does NOT do that.

You simply become immune to quickness if you currently have 9 stacks. You cannot override it. Did you never notice that you wanted to share quickness with SoI and “immune” popped up everywhere? That’s when you want to share more stacks than they can hold. Otherwise skills like Time Warp could REDUCE your quickness wich would be silly …

Same thing for swiftness or stealth, etc.

You can sustain 100% quickness with 30% boon dura already. The trick is it to not spam your wells right after CS again. Always wait until your CS cd is around 65s, then continue with spamming wells on cd.

Never miss the concentration proc. If you don’t own concentration you’ll require around 60% boon duration.

Greez!

Hm, I’ve definitely had that “Immune” error pop up when I use Signet of Inspiration.

However, I’ve managed to sustain permanent quickness with 35% boon duration without Sigil of Concentration. It’s very tight; people need to be in your wells at all times and they might need to even touch your Tides of Time waves too. It is possible though.

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Posted by: DeathReign.7821

DeathReign.7821

Wait, Pyro was wrong? :O

What is this world coming to?

Kiss the chaos.

how much boon dur no Rev

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Heya,

Nope, it does NOT do that.

You simply become immune to quickness if you currently have 9 stacks. You cannot override it. Did you never notice that you wanted to share quickness with SoI and “immune” popped up everywhere? That’s when you want to share more stacks than they can hold. Otherwise skills like Time Warp could REDUCE your quickness wich would be silly …

Same thing for swiftness or stealth, etc.

You can sustain 100% quickness with 30% boon dura already. The trick is it to not spam your wells right after CS again. Always wait until your CS cd is around 65s, then continue with spamming wells on cd.

Never miss the concentration proc. If you don’t own concentration you’ll require around 60% boon duration.

Greez!

Here’s the simple test that I executed.

Boon duration: 50%

With 50% boon duration, each tick of time warp adds 1.5s of quickness.

I dropped 2 time warps within .5s of each other by using split-second timing with CS, and then monitored the resulting quickness duration. Over 10 seconds, 2 time warps will add a total of 22 stacks of quickness. With each stack lasting 1.5 seconds, over 10 seconds 6.666 stacks will wear off, leaving at least 15 stacks remaining. With 15 stacks, each stack lasting 1.5s, the expected quickness duration is 22.5 seconds.

On execution, quickness reached 13 seconds, and pulsed up to 13 seconds multiple times before the time warps ended.

13/1.5 = 8.667, round up to 9 stacks.

A test that I did not execute, but could easily try is having a guardian use the elite shout early on in the time warps. If it favors the long 5s duration shout, then the total duration will be higher. If it pushes out the stack, it will still be 13s.

how much boon dur no Rev

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

However, I’ve managed to sustain permanent quickness with 35% boon duration without Sigil of Concentration. It’s very tight; people need to be in your wells at all times and they might need to even touch your Tides of Time waves too. It is possible though.

I doubt that to be working without a Rev as it is the discussion of this thread.


Here’s the simple test that I executed.

Boon duration: 50%

With 50% boon duration, each tick of time warp adds 1.5s of quickness.

I dropped 2 time warps within .5s of each other by using split-second timing with CS, and then monitored the resulting quickness duration. Over 10 seconds, 2 time warps will add a total of 22 stacks of quickness. With each stack lasting 1.5 seconds, over 10 seconds 6.666 stacks will wear off, leaving at least 15 stacks remaining. With 15 stacks, each stack lasting 1.5s, the expected quickness duration is 22.5 seconds.

On execution, quickness reached 13 seconds, and pulsed up to 13 seconds multiple times before the time warps ended.

13/1.5 = 8.667, round up to 9 stacks.

A test that I did not execute, but could easily try is having a guardian use the elite shout early on in the time warps. If it favors the long 5s duration shout, then the total duration will be higher. If it pushes out the stack, it will still be 13s.

Exactly! 8.667 is lower than 9. This means it doesn’t override, it gets blocked. It can never be higher than 9. So if you see “13s” turning into “12s” and back to “13s” again all the time, it means it has to wait until one stack has weared off.

I’ve made a visualization in excel that easily explains what I mean.

The first one is a normal solo time warp (blue 1) with 50% boon dura, it won’t go over 5 stacks around 10s.

The 2nd one are two time warps (blue 1 and blue 2), 0.5s after each other. Once 9 stacks are reached, no new stacks will be added (red = blocked stacks) until one stack has weared off.

This means you actively destroy quickness stacks this way.

I also made a short vid showing how it’s struggling to add further stacks at 13s (what you said too).
(exlusive link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL8mL4M1DXc&index=1&list=PL4QnNhTXYiNKquK0GYFNlpLQJbjiyoToN)

Greez!
- Xyo^^

Attachments:

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

(edited by Xyonon.3987)

how much boon dur no Rev

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

However, I’ve managed to sustain permanent quickness with 35% boon duration without Sigil of Concentration. It’s very tight; people need to be in your wells at all times and they might need to even touch your Tides of Time waves too. It is possible though.

I doubt that to be working without a Rev as it is the discussion of this thread.


Here’s the simple test that I executed.

Boon duration: 50%

With 50% boon duration, each tick of time warp adds 1.5s of quickness.

I dropped 2 time warps within .5s of each other by using split-second timing with CS, and then monitored the resulting quickness duration. Over 10 seconds, 2 time warps will add a total of 22 stacks of quickness. With each stack lasting 1.5 seconds, over 10 seconds 6.666 stacks will wear off, leaving at least 15 stacks remaining. With 15 stacks, each stack lasting 1.5s, the expected quickness duration is 22.5 seconds.

On execution, quickness reached 13 seconds, and pulsed up to 13 seconds multiple times before the time warps ended.

13/1.5 = 8.667, round up to 9 stacks.

A test that I did not execute, but could easily try is having a guardian use the elite shout early on in the time warps. If it favors the long 5s duration shout, then the total duration will be higher. If it pushes out the stack, it will still be 13s.

Exactly! 8.667 is lower than 9. This means it doesn’t override, it gets blocked. It can never be higher than 9. So if you see “13s” turning into “12s” and back to “13s” again all the time, it means it has to wait until one stack has weared off.

I’ve made a visualization in excel that easily explains what I mean.

The first one is a normal solo time warp (blue 1) with 50% boon dura, it won’t go over 5 stacks around 10s.

The 2nd one are two time warps (blue 1 and blue 2), 0.5s after each other. Once 9 stacks are reached, no new stacks will be added (red = blocked stacks) until one stack has weared off.

This means you actively destroy quickness stacks this way.

I also made a short vid showing how it’s struggling to add further stacks at 13s (what you said too).
(exlusive link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL8mL4M1DXc&index=1&list=PL4QnNhTXYiNKquK0GYFNlpLQJbjiyoToN)

Greez!
- Xyo^^

So my test is actually inconclusive as to whether it fails to add stacks when at full stacks or whether it actually pushes out old stacks. Since all time warp stacks are the same duration, it’s impossible to tell the difference.

I’ll test later with a guardian. By adding in a 50% duration quickness shout (7.5 seconds) that is used at the start of the time warps, we will be able to tell a difference. If stacks are being pushed out, the duration will drop back to the 12/13 behavior at the same point as without the shout. If stacks fail to be added, we’ll see a very obvious 3 second period where no new stacks are added (duration is not refreshed), and instead the duration counts down normally.

I’ll update this thread once I’ve executed the test.

how much boon dur no Rev

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Ok, I’ve performed the test I described in my previous post. The guardian had 70% boon duration, taking feel my wrath to 8.5s total. The shout was popped at the start, giving 3 seconds before maximum stacks were reached. With time warp ticks of 1.5s, 8 stacks of that is 12s. 8.5-3 seconds of stacking is 5.5 seconds for a projected maximum quickness duration of 17.5s.

Observed results aligned with the theory. Quickness rapidly stacked up to 18 seconds, then ticked down without refreshing for about 5 seconds before refreshing to 13 seconds on the last tick of time warp.

So I can confirm that the behavior of quickness is that of a first in, first out stack with 9 slots. When maximum stacks are reached, further stacks will fail to apply until the oldest stack has worn off.

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Posted by: Step.1285

Step.1285

I doubt that to be working without a Rev as it is the discussion of this thread.

It was in fractals, I was without a Revenant, and I was using Chocolate Omnomberry Cream + Fractal Mobility Potion (with the mastery), which gives me 35% boon duration. Everything died too quickly for me to keep up quickness for more than ~40 seconds, but I noticed that, each time a fight was over, my allies would have one or two more seconds of quickness left than the seconds it would take for Continuum Split to go off cooldown again (alacrity included). So, for instance, they’d have 7 seconds of quickness left while my Continuum Split cooldown was at 5 seconds.

I figured that if I can manage one single rotation from the start of Continuum Split’s cooldown till the end keeping permanent quickness on my allies, then I can manage it for any number of rotations, since by the time CS is off cooldown again, all my important quickness-giving skills (Time Warp, 3 wells, Signet of Inspiration, and Tides of Time) are all off cooldown once more.

Note that I had nearly permanent alacrity on me and was using Illusionary Inspiration (which, after the quickness stacks discussion in this thread, has me doubting its usefulness). It needs a perfect rotation each time to keep the quickness up permanently. I’m also not able to maintain permanent quickness on myself with just 35% boon duration, but it was working on my allies, or at least the ones who stood in my wells and in range of Signet of Inspiration.

Anyway, I haven’t tested it properly yet. I might try and find a proper testing environment, grab a friend, and see how low I can get the boon duration without losing on permanent quickness, but I swear I was able to just about maintain it with 35% in fractals.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

Huge +1 on the testing between you two, nice to know how it works in detail.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.