Guild Wars 2

I must say i’m disappointed with this change. Whether fix or nerf, thats up for debate, but never the less completely destroyed my build.

Although i felt the build was strong, at least for me, came with a huge list of drawbacks.
1. Under optimal conditions, took 30 seconds into battle to take full effect.
2. I lost the use of shatter skills except in dire situations
3. I had to be careful with skill and trait choices, casting any other illusions hurt this build
4. Condition dmg only stacks up to 25 times making this build some what useless in open world content.
5. This build was unusable on bosses that had massive aoes/dmg because the duelist would not survive long enough to get all 3 up. Would have to use more readily available illusions.
6. Had very limited capabilities against weak mobs. The 12 second cooldown meant that casting more then 1 duelist per a trash mob was a waste
7. No AoE abilities. Shattering duelist would be counter productive.

I enjoyed this build non the less. I found that under optimal conditions it was an extremely strong build but that is in fact, only under optimal conditions. Maybe i just wasnt playing my strengths right and put too many cards into duelists, i dont know. But this build in no way seemed like some sort of super build that rivaled other builds. It had its advantageous and disadvantageous. I’m still a novice at mesmer so maybe i missed something that made this build awesome.

I’m curious as to what other people think and have to say. I wanted a condition build but with only bleeds and burn this build no longer seems worth it to me.

First of all it was a fix as 100% finisher chance was always unintended, it was listed as 20%. Confusion bomb was fun but also very overpowered in a lot of 1v1 or smallscale wvw situations. The buffs to sceptor would have made it even worse. There are stronger builds out there, but something as cheesy and one dimensional as this build needed a fix.

You have no shortage of other builds to use as a mesmer.

I found that using sceptre destroyed my iDuelist build. The auto attack with sceptre replaced one of the iduelist slots with a useless clone, which didnt seem to be replaced with recasting another duelist.

This was a bug. It was fixed. If you had a build that relied entirely upon getting out 3 iDuelists, that was a bad build, full stop. Hate to break it to you. If your build relied on confusion bomb, it was a bad build twice over.

This is a simple bug fix. That’s all.

It definitely wasn’t that effective in pvp or wvw ’cos people tend to dodge after the first 2 or 3 duelist hits land. But it was very good in pve where mobs will welcome your combos with open arms.

Think about the flip side. There were a lot of players struggling to do kitten against glamour confusion mesmers. Good riddance for me and many others. Just try to improvise into a better build where you don’t spam glamours to be able to kill an enemy. Just only betters you as a player really.

There is a similar bug with the Warrior LB and one of the traits you can take. Was that fixed too?

Pyroatheist.9031:

This was a bug. It was fixed. If you had a build that relied entirely upon getting out 3 iDuelists, that was a bad build, full stop. Hate to break it to you. If your build relied on confusion bomb, it was a bad build twice over.

This is a simple bug fix. That’s all.

You cant just assume something was a bug or not based on personal opinion.

And i was quite happy with my build. Although getting out 3 duelist was my goal i had alternatives depending on the situation. And as for confusion bombing, that was the icing on the cake, although it was the only reason i had to justify going rampagers gear over berserkers.
And although my build was flawed, for its purpose (single target dps) it did exceptionally well.
With all 3 duelist out, i was doing 4k dmg per a duelist with a conistant 20+ stacks of bleed, a few stacks of vulnerability, burning from staff and 3 combo fields for confusion stacking. I was happy with my build regardless of how “bad” it was.

MyCondolences.8172:

Pyroatheist.9031:

This was a bug. It was fixed. If you had a build that relied entirely upon getting out 3 iDuelists, that was a bad build, full stop. Hate to break it to you. If your build relied on confusion bomb, it was a bad build twice over.

This is a simple bug fix. That’s all.

You cant just assume something was a bug or not based on personal opinion.

And i was quite happy with my build. Although getting out 3 duelist was my goal i had alternatives depending on the situation. And as for confusion bombing, that was the icing on the cake, although it was the only reason i had to justify going rampagers gear over berserkers.
And although my build was flawed, for its purpose (single target dps) it did exceptionally well.
With all 3 duelist out, i was doing 4k dmg per a duelist with a conistant 20+ stacks of bleed, a few stacks of vulnerability, burning from staff and 3 combo fields for confusion stacking. I was happy with my build regardless of how “bad” it was.

Out of curiosity, did you use this build in PvE or PvP?

Pyroatheist.9031:

PvE, this was my secondary character. Mostly used for dungeon runs bc of the better survivability and single target dps compared to my thief.

This char was build around being optimal for longer boss fights where i had a chance to throw everything out and use this build to its full potential.

MyCondolences.8172:

Pyroatheist.9031:

PvE, this was my secondary character. Mostly used for dungeon runs bc of the better survivability and single target dps compared to my thief.

This char was build around being optimal for longer boss fights where i had a chance to throw everything out and use this build to its full potential.

In those fights, it’s still better to just plop out 3 iWardens or 3 iWarlocks.

iWardens will give more bleeds overall, with about the same DPS.

iWarlocks will give more dps overall, without stepping on your teammates conditions (metaphorically and literally).

For the iWarden true they do give more bleeds overall if the mobs don’t move about too much. But before this patch what the iduelist offered was additional confusion spikes via ethereal combo fields that landed about the 10k mark when it gets to 20 stacks for a condition build. Before the patch, you could easily get to this amount of stacking with 2 duelist and the scepter.

Iwarlocks on the other hand only performs best in a physical attack build where others are applying the various conditions for you.

It’s fixed. We can rejoice at getting Mesmer love anywhere we can. Pyro’s usually pretty bleak/stark in his posting. I think in this thread it serves better than it has anywhere else, and I agree with him.

I agree that Pyro is often brash with his opinions on the forums, but in this case it’s warranted.

The trait was undoubtedly a bug, there wasn’t a single thing that points otherwise (except that it took this long to fix).

If you designed a build around this bug, you made a poor decision. In all truthfulness, you’ll probably find a more powerful build now that you aren’t using this bug as a crutch.

MyCondolences.8172:

Pyroatheist.9031:

This was a bug. It was fixed. If you had a build that relied entirely upon getting out 3 iDuelists, that was a bad build, full stop. Hate to break it to you. If your build relied on confusion bomb, it was a bad build twice over.

This is a simple bug fix. That’s all.

You cant just assume something was a bug or not based on personal opinion.

And i was quite happy with my build. Although getting out 3 duelist my goal i had alternatives depending on the situation. And as for confusion bombing, that was the icing on the cake, although it was the only reason i had to justify going rampagers gear over berserkers.
And although my build was flawed, for its purpose (single target dps) it did exceptionally well.
With all 3 duelist out, i was doing 4k dmg per a duelist with a conistant 20+ stacks of bleed, a few stacks of vulnerability, burning from staff and 3 combo fields for confusion stacking. I was happy with my build regardless of how “bad” it was.

It’s not so much opinion as consistency. The iDuelist does a p/p thief’s Unload, which also has a 20% projectile. All projectile channels do. My sincere condolences on your loss. I hope you’ll manage to get through this tragedy somehow.

datawais.7209:

MyCondolences.8172:

Pyroatheist.9031:

This was a bug. It was fixed. If you had a build that relied entirely upon getting out 3 iDuelists, that was a bad build, full stop. Hate to break it to you. If your build relied on confusion bomb, it was a bad build twice over.

This is a simple bug fix. That’s all.

You cant just assume something was a bug or not based on personal opinion.

And i was quite happy with my build. Although getting out 3 duelist my goal i had alternatives depending on the situation. And as for confusion bombing, that was the icing on the cake, although it was the only reason i had to justify going rampagers gear over berserkers.
And although my build was flawed, for its purpose (single target dps) it did exceptionally well.
With all 3 duelist out, i was doing 4k dmg per a duelist with a conistant 20+ stacks of bleed, a few stacks of vulnerability, burning from staff and 3 combo fields for confusion stacking. I was happy with my build regardless of how “bad” it was.

It’s not so much opinion as consistency. The iDuelist does a p/p thief’s Unload, which also has a 20% projectile. All projectile channels do. My sincere condolences on your loss. I hope you’ll manage to get through this tragedy somehow.

I dont see how i made you believe i was so distraught about this change. I mean its annoying that i need to regear my mesmer again, but in the world of MMOs change is inevitable.
I’ll probably just concentrate on my thief again, i did enjoy playing my mesmer, i was actually torn trying to decide which character to main, but atleast this made my decision easy.

I’ll probably just put him on hold til i can find another build that interests me, mean while make efforts into getting my thief into ascended gear.

I meant builds like Osicat’s Condi cat with traited Pistol and 2 glamours. (nullfield and feedback) Those builds were annoying as kitten, but now I can easily destroy them in a one v one. Thank the Balance team.

cyyrix.6105:

If you designed a build around this bug, you made a poor decision. In all truthfulness, you’ll probably find a more powerful build now that you aren’t using this bug as a crutch.

Maybe all those pistol-trait abusers should look at the new Descend into Madness-trait. I think it’s intended and worth to trait around it now.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

I meant builds like Osicat’s Condi cat with traited Pistol and 2 glamours. (nullfield and feedback) Those builds were annoying as kitten, but now I can easily destroy them in a one v one. Thank the Balance team.

Thank goodness for balance teams, I can now easily 1v1 builds meant for 1v1. Oh wait…

/tease

This is what happens when lazy devs took ages to fix a bug. Cuz people start being skeptical whether it’s intended or not. Question is does this fix also happen to warior’s LB that devs said long time ago it’s suddenly intended to make the trait worth taking?

Anyway, you shouldn’t rely on 1 skill and there’s a few better ways to apply confusion than duelist IX + glamour.

Well, glad I anyway didn’t use the pistol much, nor the trait. Sword offhand seems to be better now.

For WvW it was a well needed and very fair bug fix. Just kind of silly that it took so long for Anet to correct it.

MyCondolences.8172:

You cant just assume something was a bug or not based on personal opinion.

But see, he’s not assuming it. It was a bug.
Now it is – finally! – fixed.

Do you like your game bugged just because the bug happened to make you stronger? Because I don’t, I hate bugs. Then again, I’m a developer and have to fend off bugs every day. :P

Simonoly.4352:

For WvW it was a well needed and very fair bug fix. Just kind of silly that it took so long for Anet to correct it.

Considering what a massive portion of the patch must have been the auto-generating tooltips and their application of trait-effects, I think the issue was this:

1. The bug was a result of the trait’s effect on the skill code.
2. Fixing it was very closely related to re-coding the entire way the trait<→skill interaction is set up. Something which was probably planned a long time ago already, due to the tooltips being so horribly annoying to update manually.
3. The bug was pushed back into this “general tooltip/trait/skill fact rework”.
4. However, fixing that ended up requiring major rewrites, so it took a long time.

DavyMcB.1603:

This is what happens when lazy devs took ages to fix a bug. Cuz people start being skeptical whether it’s intended or not. Question is does this fix also happen to warior’s LB that devs said long time ago it’s suddenly intended to make the trait worth taking?

Anyway, you shouldn’t rely on 1 skill and there’s a few better ways to apply confusion than duelist IX + glamour.

Pretty much sums it up. If you leave this concern in the game for a year then the change that was made was simply a balance change rather than a bug. I assume the reason it was labeled in the “small projectile finisher” column was more to define what was planned rather than what was wrong.

Dismissing people who used this combo as exploiters or whiners is unecessary and inappropriate. It was nice while it lasted. Stacking bleeds with duelist may still be worth while, but taking pistol won’t be nearly as essential.

I tried swapping out pistol for Staff on my condi pvp build and ugh… I simply have no burst anymore. I’ll try GS I guess and mb give the whirl combo a go.

Helios.3598:

Dismissing people who used this combo as exploiters or whiners is unecessary and inappropriate. It was nice while it lasted. Stacking bleeds with duelist may still be worth while, but taking pistol won’t be nearly as essential.

They weren’t exploiters, but they are whining about a legitimate bug fix, which is silly.

Xyonon.3987:

Well, glad I anyway didn’t use the pistol much, nor the trait. Sword offhand seems to be better now.

Duelist does still stack bleeds though.

MyCondolences.8172:

Pyroatheist.9031:

This was a bug. It was fixed. If you had a build that relied entirely upon getting out 3 iDuelists, that was a bad build, full stop. Hate to break it to you. If your build relied on confusion bomb, it was a bad build twice over.

This is a simple bug fix. That’s all.

You cant just assume something was a bug or not based on personal opinion.

And i was quite happy with my build. Although getting out 3 duelist was my goal i had alternatives depending on the situation. And as for confusion bombing, that was the icing on the cake, although it was the only reason i had to justify going rampagers gear over berserkers.
And although my build was flawed, for its purpose (single target dps) it did exceptionally well.
With all 3 duelist out, i was doing 4k dmg per a duelist with a conistant 20+ stacks of bleed, a few stacks of vulnerability, burning from staff and 3 combo fields for confusion stacking. I was happy with my build regardless of how “bad” it was.

I feel it was a bug.

Despites that, I can understand you are upset. Everyone is entitled to being sad when their build is nerfed. However, dealing confusion with the iDuelist was very gimmicky at best. Furthermore, the iDuellist still deals a good amount of direct damage and still is very good at applying bleeds.

Personally, I would prefer a more “natural” way for Mesmers to play conditions without abusing a gimmicky mechanic. Reducing the CD on scepter is a first step. The should also work on the torch and the scepter AA. And they should consider increasing the duration of confusion stacks Mesmers apply.

colesy.8490:

Xyonon.3987:

Well, glad I anyway didn’t use the pistol much, nor the trait. Sword offhand seems to be better now.

Duelist does still stack bleeds though.

Swordsman – 144
Duelist – 98

like 50% more damage? I don’t think the bleeding will come up to this or at last it will come to the same damage as the swordsman. However the swordsman has a better presicion and has that neat block.

→ situational <-

but in general i like the sword more.

Xyonon.3987:

colesy.8490:

Xyonon.3987:

Well, glad I anyway didn’t use the pistol much, nor the trait. Sword offhand seems to be better now.

Duelist does still stack bleeds though.

Swordsman – 144
Duelist – 98

like 50% more damage? I don’t think the bleeding will come up to this or at last it will come to the same damage as the swordsman. However the swordsman has a better presicion and has that neat block.

-> situational <-

but in general i like the sword more.

Except offhand sword has a block where the pistol has magic bullet. Pistol is more offensive and makes it easier to kite with since IDuelist will not rush your enemy. Spreading out your phantasms can make it very difficult for someone to kill them or you.

I do like offhand sword though precisely because of the block and the trait that lowers CD’s on your entire set.