Guild Wars 2

it was poignant and expensive. been main-ing mesmer since 2010. ill check back every once in a while to see if they fix up the profession

good for you, I am about to do the same, but to a reaper alt.

I’m planning on doing the same. I’m working on my necro to 80 so I can move over my gear. it just hasn’t been the same since all this crap…

Kitten, I envy all who enjoy playing a class other than mes in gw2.

rchu.8945:

good for you, I am about to do the same, but to a reaper alt.

Is reaper decent in PvE? I’m mostly a PvE monkey so that’s why I chose ele. Was thinking about starting the HoT content with my necro though

Xstein.2187:

Kitten, I envy all who enjoy playing a class other than mes in gw2.

I don’t enjoy elementalist as much as mesmer, but the current mesmer is just so unplayable that I got used to it

Alex Shatter.7956:

rchu.8945:

good for you, I am about to do the same, but to a reaper alt.

Is reaper decent in PvE? I’m mostly a PvE monkey so that’s why I chose ele. Was thinking about starting the HoT content with my necro though

Condireaper is second only to condi mes in soloing champs (and does it faster to boot).
It’s great for pvp, especially with the new changes. Corrupting boons in a boonstack meta? whoooo!
My condi reaper is competitive condi damage in raids, or at least, competitive enough to be worth bringing along.

<3 my condi reaper, it’s been my main since the patch, and was already competing for that distinction before.

Watches everyone leave Mesmer as he levels his 4th one…

Yup, also moved everything to my Ele and now I’m breaking the 28k dps mark. Much more squishy but I cannot believe the amount of damage I can do after getting used to my mesmer.

I really don’t understand why people still play this failure of a class.

Oh I tell you why: because they like it, they like the mechanisms of the class, Ananeos. And if the really reason you consider worth playing a class is how much damage you can output, I really do not understand why anyone would want to stick with Mesmer.

Heya,

Well I look at a raid perspective and the only thing I see is this:

Essential professions:

• Berserker
• Herald
• Chronomancer

Good to have professions:

• Druid
• Scrapper
• Tempest

Idc if we have one professions:

• Reaper
• Thief
• Guardian

Chrono aka Mesmer are on the top of the food chain since hot and still solid standing there. The only thing that changed since the last patch is that each party now wants two of us.

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc

Correction, 1 and only 1 chrono is top of the food chain. You are there for alacrity and quickness, want to play chrono when there’s already one there? Tough potatoes, reroll or kick.

Oh and ele/tempest while not essential, is top pick for filling in anything that isn’t either A: wanted because of unique buffs you can’t get anywhere else or B: Required damage type/mechanic.

A good example is raids and condi, where engy and ranger being top picks for this.

Good thing my main ele is viable in PvE for the last 2 years. Just wish Mesmer wasn’t being being balanced by such a disappointing balance team.

Heya,

Correction correction: I take it you talk about the way to use Mes and Rev in their own subgroup right? People do that because they don’t have a 2nd Mesmer, not to have only one Mesmer. 2 Mesmers teams are stronger than 1 Mesmer teams. One will not be able to sustain enough alacrity for everyone and quickness is just a lucky pick. It’s also pure luck if everyone has fury or the ones in sub 3 have might. Optimal teams have 2 groups, even druid in them.

Yea druid engi and tempest are all good picks as I mentioned, but none of them are needed at all encounters. That’s what I meant.

Greez
- Madame Le Blanc

flog.3485:

Oh I tell you why: because they like it, they like the mechanisms of the class, Ananeos. And if the really reason you consider worth playing a class is how much damage you can output, I really do not understand why anyone would want to stick with Mesmer.

So what will you do when your “mechanisms” are outclassed by everything and everyone? Keep playing it stubbornly while not adapting and moving on?

flog.3485:

Oh I tell you why: because they like it, they like the mechanisms of the class, Ananeos. And if the really reason you consider worth playing a class is how much damage you can output, I really do not understand why anyone would want to stick with Mesmer.

I think you are trying to compare people who are fleeing the mesmer profession to “Flavors of the Month” who only play particular professions based on how strong they are, and not how much they care about the lore and mechanics of the profession.

This is simply not true. Mesmer players are not leaving because we are not “the most powerful”, mesmer players are leaving because the profession has been driven into the dirt. Not just the alacrity nerfs, but all of the mechanics are just plain out of touch with what a Mesmer is supposed to be.

I find it insulting to continue playing mesmer. The profession is too unique and important to Guild Wars lore to be treated this way, and I don’t want to endorse the way it is being treated.

Ananeos.4587:

flog.3485:

Oh I tell you why: because they like it, they like the mechanisms of the class, Ananeos. And if the really reason you consider worth playing a class is how much damage you can output, I really do not understand why anyone would want to stick with Mesmer.

So what will you do when your “mechanisms” are outclassed by everything and everyone? Keep playing it stubbornly while not adapting and moving on?

If and when that happens (across all classes), then yes, I would expect players to move on to what they feel caters most to their playstyle. A handful of folks on this thread seem to be bent on DPS, so good on them for moving to a more appropriate class like Ele that excels in damage.

Reason why I like Mesmer/Chrono? There’s a lot of versatility:

• Stealth
• High uptime on Reflects
• Boon distribution/extension
• Multiple Evades/Blocks
• Conjured allies being its core mechanic (I like the flavor)
• Boon stripping and group condi cleanse
• High availability of CC for mobs and destroying breakbars
• Group invulnerability
• Blinking/Portal shenanigans
• Cooldown manipulation (outside of Alacrity)

Am I still effective in PvE (which is what I play most)? Of course. I may not be the best damage dealer, but I will definitely make sure I contribute to the team. Personally, I’ve enjoyed running the Chronotank type build and have used it outside of raids. Is it the most optimal choice? Nope, but it’s fun to just sit there and face tank fractals bosses 70+. Speaking of Fractals I enjoy islands like Uncategorized and Cliffside the most with Mesmer because of how easily the class can counter the mechanics of the instance. Did someone order quadruple feedbacks? Thaumanova? CS + Mimic + Blinks = Easy mode heat room. There’s plenty more that I’m not thinking of, but the general idea being ways to counter an instance other than just bruteforcing your way through with DPS.

Again, it’s a fun class for me, and still contributes to the team.

• Stealth – outclassed by thief
• High uptime on Reflects – outclassed by Guardian
• Boon distribution/extension – outclassed by Revenant
• Multiple Evades/Blocks – outclassed by Thief
• Conjured allies being its core mechanic (I like the flavor) – Guards, Necros, Eles, and Rangers have that
• Boon stripping and group condi cleanse – outclassed by Necromancer
• High availability of CC for mobs and destroying breakbars – CC on mobs?
• Group invulnerability – gone. nerfed. poof.
• Blinking/Portal shenanigans – blink is outclassed by thief, portal is good
• Cooldown manipulation (outside of Alacrity) – at the cost of running valuable utility slots

Next you’re going to bring up mantras without realizing that Thief has their own version of mantras too.

Ananeos.4587:

• Stealth – outclassed by thief
• High uptime on Reflects – outclassed by Guardian
• Boon distribution/extension – outclassed by Revenant
• Multiple Evades/Blocks – outclassed by Thief
• Conjured allies being its core mechanic (I like the flavor) – Guards, Necros, Eles, and Rangers have that
• Boon stripping and group condi cleanse – outclassed by Necromancer
• High availability of CC for mobs and destroying breakbars – CC on mobs?
• Group invulnerability – gone. nerfed. poof.
• Blinking/Portal shenanigans – blink is outclassed by thief, portal is good
• Cooldown manipulation (outside of Alacrity) – at the cost of running valuable utility slots

Next you’re going to bring up mantras without realizing that Thief has their own version of mantras too.

Disputing a “versatility” point by arguing that specialist classes do individual things better doesn’t do much for you :P

Xyonon.3987:

Yea druid engi and tempest are all good picks as I mentioned, but none of them are needed at all encounters. That’s what I meant.

Greez
- Madame Le Blanc

But they are, you need to fill the party/raid with damage dealers and whoever is top or close to is going to be required. You might be able to clear a raid with just berserker, herald and chrono (actually I doubt it as you need sustain for the background damage ticks) but you will have a much easier job with tempests, druids and engies, thus making them as required as the others.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Ananeos.4587:

• Stealth – outclassed by thief Agreed, specialty of class
• High uptime on Reflects – outclassed by Guardian Disagree, see below
• Boon distribution/extension – outclassed by Revenant Partial agree due to Rev’s ability in this category is locked behind Herald where base Mesmers can do this with 1 skill/trait
• Multiple Evades/Blocks – outclassed by Thief Agreed, specialty of class
• Conjured allies being its core mechanic (I like the flavor) – Guards, Necros, Eles, and Rangers have that Disagree, optional to those classed vs Mesmer’s Illusions being tied to their weapon skills as well as expansion of their Shatter skills
• Boon stripping and group condi cleanse – outclassed by Necromancer Somewhat agree, Necro does better at Boon stripping/Corruption but Mesmer has more access to group cleansing: Traited heal, Eternity well, Null field, etc
• High availability of CC for mobs and destroying breakbars – CC on mobs? Stunlock and interrupts against trash
• Group invulnerability – gone. nerfed. poof. Disagree, see note below
• Blinking/Portal shenanigans – blink is outclassed by thief, portal is good Agree, Shadowstepping being a specialty of Thief. Even Guard and Rev outclass Mesmer in this
• Cooldown manipulation (outside of Alacrity) – at the cost of running valuable utility slots Agree with respect to Mimic. Disagree as Traiting Persistence of Memory is low cost

Next you’re going to bring up mantras without realizing that Thief has their own version of mantras too. totally forgot about those, but they generally only work for short fights: a quick stab, cleanse, or interrupt. Though a double traited Mantra heal will remove up to 6 conditions from a group.

Disputing a “versatility” point by arguing that specialist classes do individual things better doesn’t do much for you :P

Exactly. To name a few:

If I want a focus on stealth and evades I’ll go Thief/DD.

If I want Reflects….wait, I’ll still go Mesmer: iWardens, Temporal curtain, traited Distortion (group reflect if double traited) vs Guard’s WoR?

Group distortion is still a base Mesmer feature with Inspirations. Though traited Signets add higher availability of the feature. Precognition Well always felt like a niche skill. It did wonders for things like VG-No Green fight, but overall there were few times I could see pulsing distortion from the Well being needed over a quick F4 pop to avoid a killing blow (E.G. Harpy KB on Uncategorized).

Again, it’s the versatility that makes the class attractive to me. I recognize that the Illusory class does not take 1st place in everything (has a few things she wins 1st at), but I like that the class has access to mimic mechanics that other classes have and does so with a great deal of efficiency. If I want to play the BoonBot, I have a Herald. If I want to rain death from above I have my Ele. Etc

Um, you’re already a boonbot in PvE. Everything else you do for a competitive PvE environment is worthless.

Versatility is meaningless in formats that demand specialization for optimal group compositions.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Ananeos.4587:

• Stealth – outclassed by thief
• High uptime on Reflects – outclassed by Guardian
• Boon distribution/extension – outclassed by Revenant
• Multiple Evades/Blocks – outclassed by Thief
• Conjured allies being its core mechanic (I like the flavor) – Guards, Necros, Eles, and Rangers have that
• Boon stripping and group condi cleanse – outclassed by Necromancer
• High availability of CC for mobs and destroying breakbars – CC on mobs?
• Group invulnerability – gone. nerfed. poof.
• Blinking/Portal shenanigans – blink is outclassed by thief, portal is good
• Cooldown manipulation (outside of Alacrity) – at the cost of running valuable utility slots

Next you’re going to bring up mantras without realizing that Thief has their own version of mantras too.

Disputing a “versatility” point by arguing that specialist classes do individual things better doesn’t do much for you :P

Hold up. It does indeed matter. GW2 PvE is based around short, small scale missions that allow for disposable and re-areangeable parties. Thus, specialized is superior.

For instance, if I were trying to do a speed run of Arah, i would take a thief for avoiding mobs, and guardian for reflects against lupe. Have you ever tried running a speed clear of arah with a bunch of mesmers? The portal is nice for the ball part but otherwise it’s a mess.

For high level fractals, i would take two engineers for condi damage, a druid for support, and the rest tempests or warriors. Or a guardian for reflects. With the toughness nerf im not sure if alacrity is that vital. Correct me if im overreaching.

For raids, i would take 1 or 2 mesmers. The other 80% of the party would be tempests, druids, warriors and heralds.

In short, tempests, thieves, warriors, scrappers, druids, heralds, and guardians are like Mechanical, Software, or Chemical engineers. Solid choices, well rounded, and specialized.

Mesmer is like a math major with a minor in physics, economics, nanotech, and marketing. Looks well rounded on paper but good luck on your interview

Alex Shatter.7956:

In short, tempests, thieves, warriors, scrappers, druids, heralds, and guardians are like Mechanical, Software, or Chemical engineers. Solid choices, well rounded, and specialized.

Mesmer is like a math major with a minor in physics, economics, nanotech, and marketing. Looks well rounded on paper but good luck on your interview

Sure if you’re wanting to work as a Programmer for Microsoft you better have a resume that eats, lives, and breathes programming. Though, if you’re wanting to work for an MSP of sort you’d be more of a valuable asset to the team if you have a broader skillset. Granted, you still have to show proficiency with you skills.

E.G. I have Candidate A that scores a perfect 10 when it comes to web design but scores poorly in Network Design and doesn’t have the world’s greatest people skills [for dealing with clients]. Candidate B scores about a 7 on Web Design but also scores about a 6/7 on Network Design and has great people skills.

If my organization is looking solely for a Web designer Candidate A gets the job. If I’m looking for someone who can wear multiple hats I’d offer Candidate B the job.

That’s my view point on the Mesmer class vs other classes. Yeah a Thief can practically perma stealth but doesn’t offer much of team buffing. A Guard has a huge Wall of Reflection that can be positioned for incredible results, but it’s on a rather lengthy CD. Though, he does has other means of projectile management if needed, but a frown at the fact that it blocks/absorbs projectiles rather than reflect them.

Ultimately, this breaks down to what audience are you playing to? In a raid or speedrun situation you want the best of the best; versatility may not be wanted due to a small skillset needed to clear said instance. In a more casual setting where you team is bringing characters based on preference rather than efficiency and that’s what I enjoy about Mesmer being a more versatile class to adapt to what the group is lacking/needing. Sure, it’s nice to be wanted for things like Alacrity, Quickness, and portals, but that’s not the reason I play the Mesmer class.

Personally, I’ve involved in a guild were we have both veterans and new players alike and range from semi-hardcore to casual plays. In the more serious runs it’s all about business and what can we bring that’s most efficient to the content we’re facing. In more relaxed runs (newer players mostly) I find it easier to make the runs flow smoothly with Chrono or Druid at times.

Alex Shatter.7956:

Hold up. It does indeed matter. GW2 PvE is based around short, small scale missions that allow for disposable and re-areangeable parties. Thus, specialized is superior.

For instance, if I were trying to do a speed run of Arah, i would take a thief for avoiding mobs, and guardian for reflects against lupe. Have you ever tried running a speed clear of arah with a bunch of mesmers? The portal is nice for the ball part but otherwise it’s a mess.

For high level fractals, i would take two engineers for condi damage, a druid for support, and the rest tempests or warriors. Or a guardian for reflects. With the toughness nerf im not sure if alacrity is that vital. Correct me if im overreaching.

For raids, i would take 1 or 2 mesmers. The other 80% of the party would be tempests, druids, warriors and heralds.

In short, tempests, thieves, warriors, scrappers, druids, heralds, and guardians are like Mechanical, Software, or Chemical engineers. Solid choices, well rounded, and specialized.

Mesmer is like a math major with a minor in physics, economics, nanotech, and marketing. Looks well rounded on paper but good luck on your interview

This is, indeed, the argument that should have been made in the first place :P

@Ananeos Well as it has been explained by savacli above, your complaints just show that you haven’t understand that Mesmer is about versatility and mimic of other classes. So yeah I will keep playing it as long as I am able to run dungeon, fractals and open world with it, without having to be instantly kicked out of instances by random pugs……….. @AlexShatter I agree with you to some extent and I wasn’t trying to make a general statement why players don’t play mesmer anymore, I was just responding to Ananeos post in which he stated that he’d better transfer his ascended to elementalist because the class makes more damages. But anyway we can pretty much all agree that alacrity nerfs were wayyyyyyy overtuned -_-

flog.3485:

@Ananeos Well as it has been explained by savacli above, your complaints just show that you haven’t understand that Mesmer is about versatility and mimic of other classes. So yeah I will keep playing it as long as I am able to run dungeon, fractals and open world with it, without having to be instantly kicked out of instances by random pugs……….. @AlexShatter I agree with you to some extent and I wasn’t trying to make a general statement why players don’t play mesmer anymore, I was just responding to Ananeos post in which he stated that he’d better transfer his ascended to elementalist because the class makes more damages. But anyway we can pretty much all agree that alacrity nerfs were wayyyyyyy overtuned -_-

A little bit of everything is not a whole. 1+1 =/= 5. The point I was trying to make was not the AMOUNT of damage ele does, but rather that ele is centered around it. Mesmer is not centered around anything, mesmer instead takes bits and pieces from other classes and tries to make that its identity but fails as a whole.

Ok thanks for the clarification, Ananeos. In the end I think it will only boil down to a matter of opinion. I may not really agree with you but now you finally made sense to me. Cheers!!