Guild Wars 2

I think the biggest issues with chonomancers in PVP is not Echo of Memory. The issue is the condition spam and it’s ability to kite so well while spamming clones/conditions and breaking stuns on a very short cd. The condition spam and kiting potential of staff is extremely strong.

Echo of Memory is used also by power builds. I use it. The 30 sec cd helps me to stay alive in the midst of group fights.

Nerfing this skill will further limit build diversity, imo.

Keep Echo of Memory’s cd the same.
Increase the CD of staff 2 and/or scepter 2 instead. That will directly affect the builds that the people generally agree needs to be toned down.

Should have probably posted this in the pvp forum where it will be seen. Moderator, do me a favor and move this to pvp forums. Thanks.

I am a bit too in loss with your post: how do mesmers “break stuns with a very short cd” ? As for the scepter comment, that made me laugh actually : almost nobody uses scepter in PvP anymore. Instead we use sword due to the evade frame…..Edit: what is also funny is that the nerf on echo of memory contributes to reduce the spamming of illusions and therefore conditions

Maybe he forgot that iSwap doesn’t break stuns anymore since they changed it like…2 years ago?

He’s probably talking about Phase Retreat.

Xaylin.1860:

He’s probably talking about Phase Retreat.

Yet phase retreat does not break stuns…….LOL

I didn’t say he was right.

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

Hot Boy.7138:

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

So you offer a suggestion on a weapon that you admittedly barely/never use? Wow…….that is heavy

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

So you offer a suggestion on a weapon that you admittedly barely/never use? Wow…….that is heavy

Yeah, I am offering an opinion on a weapon I don’t use.

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

So you offer a suggestion on a weapon that you admittedly barely/never use? Wow…….that is heavy

Yeah, I am offering an opinion on a weapon I don’t use.

Ok……..Good luck and have fun……..

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

So you offer a suggestion on a weapon that you admittedly barely/never use? Wow…….that is heavy

Yeah, I am offering an opinion on a weapon I don’t use.

Ok……..Good luck and have fun……..

I am. And you can keep your fake pleasantries.

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

So you offer a suggestion on a weapon that you admittedly barely/never use? Wow…….that is heavy

Yeah, I am offering an opinion on a weapon I don’t use.

Ok……..Good luck and have fun……..

I am. And you can keep your fake pleasantries.

Sure. But let me just point out that players on forums never complain about phase retreat but rather feel like Moa and portal are OP. Furthermore you still haven’t answered the fact scepter is barely used in PvP because most people will take sword due to the evade frame. Added with the fact that you “forgot” phase retreat had no stun break, you might understand that I am having a hard time taking your suggestion seriously.

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

So you offer a suggestion on a weapon that you admittedly barely/never use? Wow…….that is heavy

Yeah, I am offering an opinion on a weapon I don’t use.

Do you not see the problem with this way of thinking? You don’t use the weapon, thus have no knowledge on how it works (and have demonstrated that as a fact), but still think you are entitled to an opinion that holds any weight whatsoever? Sorry, that’s just not how things work.

Read up on the skills. Gain some experience with it. Then come and try again.

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

So you offer a suggestion on a weapon that you admittedly barely/never use? Wow…….that is heavy

Yeah, I am offering an opinion on a weapon I don’t use.

Ok……..Good luck and have fun……..

I am. And you can keep your fake pleasantries.

Sure. But let me just point out that players on forums never complain about phase retreat but rather feel like Moa and portal are OP. Furthermore you still haven’t answered the fact scepter is barely used in PvP because most people will take sword due to the evade frame. Added with the fact that you “forgot” phase retreat had no stun break, you might understand that I am having a hard time taking your suggestion seriously.

It’s not for you to take seriously. It’s for the devs to make note of and consider.

And i haven’t answered because your posts are full of spite. Me and you are cut from different cloths. There could be no true exchange of ideas between us because I don’t respond with spite. When I ask questions and respond to questions, it’s usually to inform or share an opinion. Never with the intention of belittling the person. I know video game forums is where toxic individuals like to shine with foul words, tasteless humor, poisonous attitudes. It’s not my thing though. I like to make suggestions that I think will improve the game and the builds I like to play. I’m not here to indulge you in toxicity. A back and forth of meaningless pettiness. It appears courtesy is a lost art in this community and I’m just not feeling it. And this is for anyone who feels like the shoe fits.

And in any case, I still stand by my suggestion. And I fight against plenty of condi mesmers that run scepter in Spvp.

The problem is Hot Boy that you’re sharing your own ideas for your agenda and come off having the attitude of “screw everyone elses stuff so long as my stuff is still good”. For the record that’s not spite, that is how I and many others are interpreting what you’re typing which is only further escalated by your incorrect claims of the teleports being stunbreaks, they are not.

As for the thread in general I feel nerfing echo of memory is a bad idea as it is already the 2nd highest cool down shield skill in the game (highest being ToT lol) and you don’t even start the cool down till 2nd block if you get it. So essentially if you don’t get hit its a 1.5s block on a 30s (soon to be 35s) cool down and if you do then it’s a total of 3s block on a 31.5-40s cool down.

The thing that needed addressing was the conditions mesmer puts out, torment and confusion at the same time are incredibly annoying and punishing in a game that has combat so deeply set in movement and skill use. Changing maim the disillusioned is probably the best thing that could be done, add different conditions to each shatter, weakness and poison on f3 and 4 would be useful in power builds too.

It would easy for anyone who plays the build I do to think Phase Retreat is a stunbreak by just the visuals. I stun. They Phase retreat a few meters back instantly and will begin casting again. Doesn’t change things for me because it is still an extremely strong tool for kiting and generating clones. And yes, I would like to promote improvements to the builds I like to play. Having an attitude that implies “screw everyone else’s stuff so long as my stuff is still good” would be me jumping on to threads of other people’s ideas and belittling them. I don’t do that. Why wouldn’t I want to see mesmer made better in the way that I like to play? And of course, everyone else is welcome to make threads about improvements that would like to see in the game. I never once thought to myself that any person was saying screw everyone else because they have ideas to improve their own gameplay. I may not agree with the changes cause it conflicts with my own interests, but I never feel this person deserves any less respect from me. I don’t think like that. And I’m surprised that anyone would take my suggestions as a “screw everyone else thread.” If I attempted to derail other threads to my issues, then sure. But I don’t do that. I can’t agree with you that the issue is that I want to improve my own and playstyle makes people think I’m saying screw them, because no one wants to see their favorite skills nerfed.

I think you’re either denying or ignoring the elephant in the room that these forums are occupied by toxic people. So often I see threads turn into a pit of people all being nasty to each other. I’m not unique in this, but I have noticed a pattern of a lot of the same people driving my threads in the same direction time after time. And It doesn’t matter the topic of the threads, the message is conveyed in the same manner. And the message seems very clear to me. And the elephant in the room seems very obvious to me.

But as for suggestions to this thread, I agree with you. More unique conditions to each shatter that also benefits power builds is a great idea. And of course I agree with you about nerfing Echo of Memories being a bad idea. The CD is indeed long, and it never occurred it was one of the longest block cds. I don’t think Maim the disillusioned needs to be changed because I think it’s a pretty balanced trait as is. I suggested nerfing staff 2 because the kiting capability of staff is very strong, but so is greatsword I guess. I think if they want to nerf survivability, the nerfs should be focused on staff 2 and scepter 2. I doubt they will nerf scepter 2 since they spent so many patches making it a more desirable weapon to use.

There is, however, a difference between an informed and knowledgeable suggestion and a suggestion based on false ideas and ill conceived concepts.

People will be more likely to take your suggestions kindly and objectively when you display the former rather than latter.

DeathReign.7821:

There is, however, a difference between an informed and knowledgeable suggestion and a suggestion based on false ideas and ill conceived concepts.

People will be more likely to take your suggestions kindly and objectively when you display the former rather than latter.

You can speak as formally as you want. You can try to justify the disrespect any way you want. Whatever makes you feel a little better about yourself.

Hot Boy is actually right to some degree in regards to phase retreat. You can use it while stunned and it’s on a 10 second CD. We shouldn’t be able to use it while stunned since it isn’t technically a stun break.

There was another weapon skill like this that was nerfed. The thief #2 sword skill. They put a cast time on it…..now going by that Hot Boy is right.

I personally wouldn’t want to see a cast time put on the skill but not be able to use it while stunned/dazed/etc.

Hot Boy.7138:

DeathReign.7821:

There is, however, a difference between an informed and knowledgeable suggestion and a suggestion based on false ideas and ill conceived concepts.

People will be more likely to take your suggestions kindly and objectively when you display the former rather than latter.

You can speak as formally as you want. You can try to justify the disrespect any way you want. Whatever makes you feel a little better about yourself.

“Justify the disrespect”? Please tell me where I have disrespected you. Pointing out your lack of knowledge is not disrespect, it’s a fact.

It’s frankly adorable how you hide behind being offended to cover up having a vastly lacking pool of knowledge, while wanting to be taken seriously at the same time.

Edit: In fact, it’s actually rather ironic that you, the only person here employing the use of ad hominem, are the one to be preaching and crying about disrespect. It’s also rather ironic that the people who cry the most about toxicity are usually the most toxic ones. Just pointing that out.

Hot Boy.7138:

But as for suggestions to this thread, I agree with you. More unique conditions to each shatter that also benefits power builds is a great idea. And of course I agree with you about nerfing Echo of Memories being a bad idea. The CD is indeed long, and it never occurred it was one of the longest block cds. I don’t think Maim the disillusioned needs to be changed because I think it’s a pretty balanced trait as is. I suggested nerfing staff 2 because the kiting capability of staff is very strong, but so is greatsword I guess. I think if they want to nerf survivability, the nerfs should be focused on staff 2 and scepter 2. I doubt they will nerf scepter 2 since they spent so many patches making it a more desirable weapon to use.

The bold part exemplifies the issue, it didn’t occur to you that echo of memory was actually balanced nor did you back up your argument very well as to why it should stay as it is. If something is no stronger and can be shown to be objectively weaker than what is on other classes you can make a case for it to no longer be changed.

You then offered up other skills for nerfing that are barely an issue in PvP. Phase retreat is balanced vs other skills and at 10s CD with a very wonky cool down reduction trait it’s not going to be a target for nerfs. Additionally if you get headbutt for a 3s stun no phase retreat or iLeap will save you from the follow up without a stun break, invulnerability or CC on the enemy, you will still be stunned for 3s. Sceptre is a slow weapon and only shines in a 1v1, when outnumbered you can pressure the mesmer and they will be forced to leave as it blocks only 1 attack and leaves you vulnerable to damage on the follow-up counterstrike vs the evade for 2s on BF. GS is a very clunky weapon and offers very little to anything but power builds, without its kiting potential it would be ones of the weakest great sword weapons in the game.

The reason I say maim the disillusioned is because it gives access to torment and confusion through shatters in the same trait line. Changing it to something else would allow for less movement punishing at the same time as skill use punishment without using sceptre so if you choose the survivability of sword and shield you will not have the movement punishment of torment. It is the combination of both torment and confusion that players find hard to deal with.

While we’re talking of this it would be real nice if chaos armour was 25s CD yet it’s 35s…

Azukas.1426:

Hot Boy is actually right to some degree in regards to phase retreat. You can use it while stunned and it’s on a 10 second CD. We shouldn’t be able to use it while stunned since it isn’t technically a stun break.

There was another weapon skill like this that was nerfed. The thief #2 sword skill. They put a cast time on it…..now going by that Hot Boy is right.

I personally wouldn’t want to see a cast time put on the skill but not be able to use it while stunned/dazed/etc.

There’s a difference though, phase retreat has a cool down of 10s while infiltrators return has a low cost of 2 ini especially when the majority of the weapon set is auto attack for damage. Return also has a 1200 range on the teleport which means you can be completely out of harms way while phase retreat is what 600?

If infiltrators return was instant cast sword Daredevil would be nearly unkillable between bandits defence, infiltrators return and unhindered combatant.

apharma.3741:

Hot Boy.7138:

But as for suggestions to this thread, I agree with you. More unique conditions to each shatter that also benefits power builds is a great idea. And of course I agree with you about nerfing Echo of Memories being a bad idea. The CD is indeed long, and it never occurred it was one of the longest block cds. I don’t think Maim the disillusioned needs to be changed because I think it’s a pretty balanced trait as is. I suggested nerfing staff 2 because the kiting capability of staff is very strong, but so is greatsword I guess. I think if they want to nerf survivability, the nerfs should be focused on staff 2 and scepter 2. I doubt they will nerf scepter 2 since they spent so many patches making it a more desirable weapon to use.

The bold part exemplifies the issue, it didn’t occur to you that echo of memory was actually balanced nor did you back up your argument very well as to why it should stay as it is. If something is no stronger and can be shown to be objectively weaker than what is on other classes you can make a case for it to no longer be changed.

You then offered up other skills for nerfing that are barely an issue in PvP. Phase retreat is balanced vs other skills and at 10s CD with a very wonky cool down reduction trait it’s not going to be a target for nerfs. Additionally if you get headbutt for a 3s stun no phase retreat or iLeap will save you from the follow up without a stun break, invulnerability or CC on the enemy, you will still be stunned for 3s. Sceptre is a slow weapon and only shines in a 1v1, when outnumbered you can pressure the mesmer and they will be forced to leave as it blocks only 1 attack and leaves you vulnerable to damage on the follow-up counterstrike vs the evade for 2s on BF. GS is a very clunky weapon and offers very little to anything but power builds, without its kiting potential it would be ones of the weakest great sword weapons in the game.

The reason I say maim the disillusioned is because it gives access to torment and confusion through shatters in the same trait line. Changing it to something else would allow for less movement punishing at the same time as skill use punishment without using sceptre so if you choose the survivability of sword and shield you will not have the movement punishment of torment. It is the combination of both torment and confusion that players find hard to deal with.

While we’re talking of this it would be real nice if chaos armour was 25s CD yet it’s 35s…

It didn’t occur to me because I can’t name every block skill in the game and their cds on a whim off the top of my head. I know the cd is long because it feels long to me in combat. I know I don’t want it to be any longer than it is. This isn’t a professional presentation. This is a game forum and I’m suggesting to the devs not to nerf the skill I like by giving it a longer cd, and what skills I think should take its place if they want to nerf survivability. That’s all.

I don’t think 1 stack of torment per shatter is very much. I think it used to be higher and was nerfed to 1 stack. I could be wrong about that. And the balance team seems focused on nerfing the survivability right now, not the condition spam or damage output of condi mesmers. If they wanted to address those issues, they would have included in the blog of incoming changes. The changes for mesmer is focused on defensives: blocking and healing. So i h aven’t given much thought to how offensive damage could be reduced yet. So I really can’t say too much about that. But I don’t think maim the disillusioned being nerfed further is a good idea.

Hot Boy.7138:

It didn’t occur to me because I can’t name every block skill in the game and their cds on a whim off the top of my head. I know the cd is long because it feels long to me in combat. I know I don’t want it to be any longer than it is. This isn’t a professional presentation. This is a game forum and I’m suggesting to the devs not to nerf the skill I like by giving it a longer cd, and what skills I think should take its place if they want to nerf survivability. That’s all.

I don’t think 1 stack of torment per shatter is very much. I think it used to be higher and was nerfed to 1 stack. I could be wrong about that. And the balance team seems focused on nerfing the survivability right now, not the condition spam or damage output of condi mesmers. If they wanted to address those issues, they would have included in the blog of incoming changes. The changes for mesmer is focused on defensives: blocking and healing. So i h aven’t given much thought to how offensive damage could be reduced yet. So I really can’t say too much about that. But I don’t think maim the disillusioned being nerfed further is a good idea.

It was 2 stacks per clone that hits per shatter in the trait previews and was changed to 1 stack when the changes went live with no prior warning. Chrono allows for you to hit with 3-4 clones a lot of the time in a condition build if there isn’t a lot of AoE damage giving 3-4 stacks of torment per shatter. Combine that with signet of illusions for shatter spam and constantly getting 1 clone and a phantasm back via traits and it adds up to a cascade of constant confusion and torment.

While I agree it seems they want to nerf mesmers defences I don’t agree that they should. Power mesmer isn’t in a great spot, sure it can win some fights but it’s high risk moderate reward. If you don’t instagib the enemy in one combo (usually with continuum split to double MW) then a lot of the time you will at best stalemate the fight but usually lose. Nerfing the defences of mesmer further nerfs power but doesn’t offer it any other way to compete via sustained damage or poison to reduce the regen of most HoT builds atm.

I was lucky enough to catch one of Helseth’s streams where he was fighting Zan on power shatter and sometimes Kol. If he didn’t combo kill Zan with CS then Zan would regen to full a few seconds later however due to the amount of CC Kol was an easier fight. Didn’t see anything else sadly but would have loved to see him fighting DH and warriors as power shatter.

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

flog.3485:

Hot Boy.7138:

I did mean Phase Retreat. I couldn’t think of the name. I never use staff. All this time I thought it broke stuns also. In any case, i stand by my suggestion.

So you offer a suggestion on a weapon that you admittedly barely/never use? Wow…….that is heavy

Yeah, I am offering an opinion on a weapon I don’t use.

Ok……..Good luck and have fun……..

I am. And you can keep your fake pleasantries.

Sure. But let me just point out that players on forums never complain about phase retreat but rather feel like Moa and portal are OP. Furthermore you still haven’t answered the fact scepter is barely used in PvP because most people will take sword due to the evade frame. Added with the fact that you “forgot” phase retreat had no stun break, you might understand that I am having a hard time taking your suggestion seriously.

It’s not for you to take seriously. It’s for the devs to make note of and consider.

And i haven’t answered because your posts are full of spite. Me and you are cut from different cloths. There could be no true exchange of ideas between us because I don’t respond with spite. When I ask questions and respond to questions, it’s usually to inform or share an opinion. Never with the intention of belittling the person. I know video game forums is where toxic individuals like to shine with foul words, tasteless humor, poisonous attitudes. It’s not my thing though. I like to make suggestions that I think will improve the game and the builds I like to play. I’m not here to indulge you in toxicity. A back and forth of meaningless pettiness. It appears courtesy is a lost art in this community and I’m just not feeling it. And this is for anyone who feels like the shoe fits.

And in any case, I still stand by my suggestion. And I fight against plenty of condi mesmers that run scepter in Spvp.

Ok. I am sorry that my post came off as full of spite. It was never my intention but you have to understand that you proposal of nerf based on your misconception of phase retreat triggered me badly. I agree to some extent on your concern of phase retreat based on what Azukas wrote. However due the increasing amount of CC’s in the game I don’t think it is a good solution to nerf phase retreat now because we shouldn’t be toning down core Mesmer abilities but rather bring down in line the abilities of elite specs

apharma.3741:

As for the thread in general I feel nerfing echo of memory is a bad idea as it is already the 2nd highest cool down shield skill in the game (highest being ToT lol) and you don’t even start the cool down till 2nd block if you get it. So essentially if you don’t get hit its a 1.5s block on a 30s (soon to be 35s) cool down and if you do then it’s a total of 3s block on a 31.5-40s cool down.

The thing that needed addressing was the conditions mesmer puts out, torment and confusion at the same time are incredibly annoying and punishing in a game that has combat so deeply set in movement and skill use. Changing maim the disillusioned is probably the best thing that could be done, add different conditions to each shatter, weakness and poison on f3 and 4 would be useful in power builds too.

This, exactly this. We have too much access to torment and confusion for a PvP setting. This needs to be nerfed, not our defensive abilities. Condi chrono is overperforming, not power. Why would nerfing something that both builds rely on instead of only nerfing the condi build be a good idea ANet?

lmao this thread exploded into the ‘Yeah, I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’m going to talk about it anyway and I don’t care what you guys think because this is for the devs that will literally never read this.’

k.

Fay.2357:

lmao this thread exploded into the ‘Yeah, I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’m going to talk about it anyway and I don’t care what you guys think because this is for the devs that will literally never read this.’

k.

at least tell him why he is wrong.

OP, I dont think anybody uses staff #2 for the clone

Usually, experience players exploits the map.

loseridoit.2756:

Fay.2357:

lmao this thread exploded into the ‘Yeah, I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’m going to talk about it anyway and I don’t care what you guys think because this is for the devs that will literally never read this.’

k.

at least tell him why he is wrong.

Eh, the reasons for his being wrong have been explained quite a few times already by the time you get to my comment. I’m just chuckling about it.

Fay.2357:

loseridoit.2756:

Fay.2357:

lmao this thread exploded into the ‘Yeah, I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’m going to talk about it anyway and I don’t care what you guys think because this is for the devs that will literally never read this.’

k.

at least tell him why he is wrong.

Eh, the reasons for his being wrong have been explained quite a few times already by the time you get to my comment. I’m just chuckling about it.

from the looks of the thread, no one is telling him how this game is design around.

I prefer a type of learning called learning off the cliff. If you give an idea, you keep learning something new passively.

It is apparent that the OP needs to understand on why things exist rather than a simple tooltip fact.

loseridoit.2756:

Fay.2357:

loseridoit.2756:

Fay.2357:

lmao this thread exploded into the ‘Yeah, I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’m going to talk about it anyway and I don’t care what you guys think because this is for the devs that will literally never read this.’

k.

at least tell him why he is wrong.

Eh, the reasons for his being wrong have been explained quite a few times already by the time you get to my comment. I’m just chuckling about it.

from the looks of the thread, no one is telling him how this game is design around.

I prefer a type of learning called learning off the cliff. If you give an idea, you keep learning something new passively.

It is apparent that the OP needs to understand on why things exist rather than a simple tooltip fact.

The reason nobody is trying to provide more useful explanations is that this isn’t the first time we’ve been through this song and dance with op. They make an illogical suggestion backed by a total lack of knowledge and experience. Then, when the inconsistencies are pointed out, they immediately get hostile and defensive with statements like ‘none of you matter, this is for the devs to decide.’

We’re all pretty tired of it at this point. I for one am not going to waste my breath on this person’s absurd suggestions unless someone else would like me to explain more.

Well if that’s an invitation for questions Pyro I have a few.

Are you back to playing guild wars 2 on a more regular basis?

Do you think we have too many cool down reduction traits that can be stacked?

How would you improve mesmer? Doesn’t matter how big a change, just how would you ideally?

I’d ask how you think the future of mesmer is but I have 10g on bleak.

I believe they should just reduce the duration of MtD to 4 seconds now.

Do that and let it play out to see the effect, then check back mid season to modify if necessary.

Curunen.8729:

I believe they should just reduce the duration of MtD to 4 seconds now.

Do that and let it play out to see the effect, then check back mid season to modify if necessary.

Honestly it should be changed to work more like BD in that each shatter gets its own condition (or at least have it be 2 different conditions, torment on 2 shatters, and another one on the other 3). Part of the reason condi chrono is so deadly in PvP is because it has too much access to torment and confusion.

I’ve been playing zerker Power Shatter with nearly no Condie cleanses for the last couple of weeks, have faced dozens of enemy Mesmers, most of which were meta condie shatter, and I don’t see this “so deadly in PvP” at all. (Nor was that the feeling I got playing that build for months. Good yes, but OPd or overly strong “sustainage” was hardly my experience with the build. )

I should be running scared and pulling my hair out fighting condie shatter Mesmers, but I’m not. Why? They’re squishy as heck! I don’t know why people think that even the meta condie shatter build has a level of sustain that needs to be nerfed. For every time that one has managed to wreck me, I’ve managed to wreck one right back with my huge damage spikes and long CC.

Even in Pugs, which is all I play, I’m often getting plenty of cleanses off my teammates to where I’ve only rarely had an issue with any condition classes dominating me. (And in 1v1 I just tend to overwhelm them with spike damage and CC.)

So I’m not buying the “so deadly in PvP” line…I think if that were the case, Anet would have nerfed MtD even more.

I don’t quite get the suggestions, but this change is unneeded especially after already nerfing Restorative Illusions.

If they are going to do this, then the phantasm should be guaranteed even if canceled.

Daishi.6027:

I don’t quite get the suggestions, but this change is unneeded especially after already nerfing Restorative Illusions.

If they are going to do this, then the phantasm should be guaranteed even if canceled.

My suggestion was to nerf the condition weapons’ survivability skills directly by extending the cd of staff 2 and scepter 2, instead of nerfing the cd of a weapon that even power builds use. If the issue is not with power builds, doesn’t make sense to me to nerf a skill on shield since both condi and power builds will be affected by this.

But I like your idea of having the phantasm be guaranteed even if we cancel the block midway. Hopefully devs will make note of that and give it some consideration.

apharma.3741:

Azukas.1426:

Hot Boy is actually right to some degree in regards to phase retreat. You can use it while stunned and it’s on a 10 second CD. We shouldn’t be able to use it while stunned since it isn’t technically a stun break.

There was another weapon skill like this that was nerfed. The thief #2 sword skill. They put a cast time on it…..now going by that Hot Boy is right.

I personally wouldn’t want to see a cast time put on the skill but not be able to use it while stunned/dazed/etc.

There’s a difference though, phase retreat has a cool down of 10s while infiltrators return has a low cost of 2 ini especially when the majority of the weapon set is auto attack for damage. Return also has a 1200 range on the teleport which means you can be completely out of harms way while phase retreat is what 600?

If infiltrators return was instant cast sword Daredevil would be nearly unkillable between bandits defence, infiltrators return and unhindered combatant.

That’s the way all thief skills,work so that argument doesn’t work.

I’m just playing Devils advocate because his point is correct on phase retreat. Anet should remove the ability for it to be used while stun/dazedimmob/ectopic.

I’m not getting into the rest of it

Azukas.1426:

apharma.3741:

Azukas.1426:

Hot Boy is actually right to some degree in regards to phase retreat. You can use it while stunned and it’s on a 10 second CD. We shouldn’t be able to use it while stunned since it isn’t technically a stun break.

There was another weapon skill like this that was nerfed. The thief #2 sword skill. They put a cast time on it…..now going by that Hot Boy is right.

I personally wouldn’t want to see a cast time put on the skill but not be able to use it while stunned/dazed/etc.

There’s a difference though, phase retreat has a cool down of 10s while infiltrators return has a low cost of 2 ini especially when the majority of the weapon set is auto attack for damage. Return also has a 1200 range on the teleport which means you can be completely out of harms way while phase retreat is what 600?

If infiltrators return was instant cast sword Daredevil would be nearly unkillable between bandits defence, infiltrators return and unhindered combatant.

That’s the way all thief skills,work so that argument doesn’t work.

I’m just playing Devils advocate because his point is correct on phase retreat. Anet should remove the ability for it to be used while stun/dazedimmob/ectopic.

I’m not getting into the rest of it

Well, the primary difference is that infiltrators return allowed you to completely remove yourself from the current combat situation. Phase retreat is a short-range repositioning tool. It can get you out of something like hundred blades, but it doesn’t totally disengage you from the fight.

I feel like we go through cycles of different posters like the OP who come here and make the most clueless posts. They just post complete nonsense.

phokus.8934:

I feel like we go through cycles of different posters like the OP who come here and make the most clueless posts. They just post complete nonsense.

So do you think Echo of Memory needed to be nerfed? Knowing that it hurts both power and condi builds? Similarly the nerf to RI, well that trait probably needed some form of nerf, but this just unfairly hurst core mesmers because they won’t have access to IR and chronophantasma. There are some people here that feel that even though we probably needed some nerfs, the ones we got were in the wrong places

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

apharma.3741:

Azukas.1426:

Hot Boy is actually right to some degree in regards to phase retreat. You can use it while stunned and it’s on a 10 second CD. We shouldn’t be able to use it while stunned since it isn’t technically a stun break.

There was another weapon skill like this that was nerfed. The thief #2 sword skill. They put a cast time on it…..now going by that Hot Boy is right.

I personally wouldn’t want to see a cast time put on the skill but not be able to use it while stunned/dazed/etc.

There’s a difference though, phase retreat has a cool down of 10s while infiltrators return has a low cost of 2 ini especially when the majority of the weapon set is auto attack for damage. Return also has a 1200 range on the teleport which means you can be completely out of harms way while phase retreat is what 600?

If infiltrators return was instant cast sword Daredevil would be nearly unkillable between bandits defence, infiltrators return and unhindered combatant.

That’s the way all thief skills,work so that argument doesn’t work.

I’m just playing Devils advocate because his point is correct on phase retreat. Anet should remove the ability for it to be used while stun/dazedimmob/ectopic.

I’m not getting into the rest of it

Well, the primary difference is that infiltrators return allowed you to completely remove yourself from the current combat situation. Phase retreat is a short-range repositioning tool. It can get you out of something like hundred blades, but it doesn’t totally disengage you from the fight.

That’s not a valid argument. You can still move up and down the Z axis, use while stunned/dazed/immob/etc, and you move out of immediate danger.

Also you can use Phase Retreat while stomping then teleport back to finish the stomp. That was the main reason for nerf to thief’s sword 2 skill if memory servers me right.

So please stop unless you want to bring it to anet’s attention b/c it’s an oversight that it still works this way.

apharma.3741:

Well if that’s an invitation for questions Pyro I have a few.

Oy

apharma.3741:

Are you back to playing guild wars 2 on a more regular basis?

I play GW2 extremely regularly: 2 hours friday, saturday, sunday and monday. Fri/sat are my PvE raid days, and sun/mon are my WvW raid days.

apharma.3741:

Do you think we have too many cool down reduction traits that can be stacked?

The only cdr traits that can be “stacked” are illusionist’s celerity combined with the weapon-specific trait for illusion skills on said weapon. Back when the staff trait wasn’t utter garbage, this actually got pretty ridiculously low cooldowns for phase retreat, but nothing really gets low enough to stand out anymore.

apharma.3741:

How would you improve mesmer? Doesn’t matter how big a change, just how would you ideally?

So the biggest common complaint is our lack of damage. This is true both on a spreadsheet level (theoretical single target output) and a realistic level (being unable to do acceptable damage because of mechanical concerns).

The spreadsheet damage problem is harder to solve due to the basic mechanics of the class being more appropriate for burst damage than sustained dps. However, the realistic dps problem is very solvable with the introduction/modification of a couple mechanics.

First, we need our illusions to persist after their target dies for ~5s. This allows for the second mechanic to work, which is a low cooldown utility that allows us to retarget illusions (think ~10s cooldown). In this way, you’re able to set up your damage over time, and then chain it from mob to mob, or pack to pack if you’re close enough. This would also work in situations like charged souls on gorseval or statue thingies on KC.

apharma.3741:

I’d ask how you think the future of mesmer is but I have 10g on bleak.

The future of mesmer? Idk, it’ll be fine I’m sure. Chrono pretty much cements us into having a spot in PvE compositions, and we’ll always be usable in PvP due to the gimmicks we have.

In terms of fixing the damage problem, I’m a big fan of a trait that gives us a fairly large damage buff when we shatter. Probably something like 25% per Illusion for a 100% buff for a full shatter. Replace Furious interruption with our GS trait and put the new trait in the GM slot, replacing our Mantra trait with it would be even better though.

That and throwing in some more damage buffs to our weapon skills and make all our phantasm skills work like Shield/utilities.

Levetty.1279:

In terms of fixing the damage problem, I’m a big fan of a trait that gives us a fairly large damage buff when we shatter. Probably something like 25% per Illusion for a 100% buff for a full shatter. Replace Furious interruption with our GS trait and put the new trait in the GM slot, replacing our Mantra trait with it would be even better though.

That and throwing in some more damage buffs to our weapon skills and make all our phantasm skills work like Shield/utilities.

Honestly I would love that but it would be so incredibly OP. What happens when we are running chrono line and have 3 phantasms out? We shatter, get them all back, but now have 100% damage boost, to use on a second MW at double strength, on top of any other damage we can deal. Now, if MW was excluded from this damage bonus, it could possibly, possibly be balanced (though not at that number for sure), but then we have to ask a question. Would this also apply to phantasm attacks? Should this apply to phantasm attacks even?

I would love this but I honestly don’t think it could ever be made balanced with other professions without some serious nerfs to compensate for it.

OriOri.8724:

phokus.8934:

I feel like we go through cycles of different posters like the OP who come here and make the most clueless posts. They just post complete nonsense.

So do you think Echo of Memory needed to be nerfed? Knowing that it hurts both power and condi builds? Similarly the nerf to RI, well that trait probably needed some form of nerf, but this just unfairly hurst core mesmers because they won’t have access to IR and chronophantasma. There are some people here that feel that even though we probably needed some nerfs, the ones we got were in the wrong places

I honestly think 35 is fine for getting 6s of blocking. Warriors have 25 and Engineers have 30 but they can’t use their ability back to back. 35s for EoM is probably where it should have been from the get go. Although, anything higher than that is over the top.

But I was commenting more on the OP asking for Phase Retreat to have an increased cooldown.

phokus.8934:

OriOri.8724:

phokus.8934:

I feel like we go through cycles of different posters like the OP who come here and make the most clueless posts. They just post complete nonsense.

So do you think Echo of Memory needed to be nerfed? Knowing that it hurts both power and condi builds? Similarly the nerf to RI, well that trait probably needed some form of nerf, but this just unfairly hurst core mesmers because they won’t have access to IR and chronophantasma. There are some people here that feel that even though we probably needed some nerfs, the ones we got were in the wrong places

I honestly think 35 is fine for getting 6s of blocking. Warriors have 25 and Engineers have 30 but they can’t use their ability back to back. 35s for EoM is probably where it should have been from the get go. Although, anything higher than that is over the top.

But I was commenting more on the OP asking for Phase Retreat to have an increased cooldown.

Isn’t it only 3 seconds of blocking, though? 1.5 secs per cast?

phokus.8934:

I honestly think 35 is fine for getting 6s of blocking. Warriors have 25 and Engineers have 30 but they can’t use their ability back to back. 35s for EoM is probably where it should have been from the get go. Although, anything higher than that is over the top.

But I was commenting more on the OP asking for Phase Retreat to have an increased cooldown.

We do not get 6s but 3s of blocking. It got nerfed (justifiably) long time ago and is only 1.5s per block.

Chronomancer have too much damage negation. This is not healthy.
On top of that, we have decent sustain, partly thanks to RI. On the other hand, we have very little reset potential compare to most classes (what I mean by that is that we cannot heal 80% of our total HP pool in a few seconds like DH, druid, scrappers, etc…).

Mesmer does not shine by its damage pressure (abysmal in power, decent but comparatively not insane in condi). It is really our survivability which is the problem. So nerfing condis like some suggest is a bad idea (though I think the application need to be less spammy, maybe apply condi only on F1 and/or F2, not all 4/5). Nerfing our survivability and boosting our sustained power damage (over all game modes) would have been the best I believe. On top of that, better condi cleanse not-inspiration dependent would have gone a long way. Instead we have a patch which does not significantly improves build diversity, though chronomancer and inspiration became a bit less mandatory which is a (baby) step in the right direction.