Guild Wars 2

hi all
i recently leveled my mesmer to 80 and after som TP shopping this is the build i am currently running:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGeqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFSEwAKUCWf/hU6GAY+7oyPcq/w4JA44iAAA-w

i admit i still have to learn A LOT on how to efficiently run a mesmer but i’m looking for some expert advice
i’m a fan of dire gear as you can see and i come from a nearly identical build (p/d dire thief)

do you think this build i made is viable? what should i change?
any advice for possible matchups i should avoid or throw me in? (love wvw roaming)

thank you all

Sorry to break it to you, but dire needs to be changed to rabid.
Most the mesmers conditions will come from clone crits causing the bleed stacks, therefor you NEED precision.
As for the traitline is fine, standard PU condi that is a good 1v1 roamer, but you will gave issues killing people as they can simply walk away from you. (in dire gear you wont be able to condi burst them down even if they do stay to fight)

Neptune.2570:

Sorry to break it to you, but dire needs to be changed to rabid.
Most the mesmers conditions will come from clone crits causing the bleed stacks, therefor you NEED precision.
As for the traitline is fine, standard PU condi that is a good 1v1 roamer, but you will gave issues killing people as they can simply walk away from you. (in dire gear you wont be able to condi burst them down even if they do stay to fight)

thank you, i edited the post title and the build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGeqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

can you explain me how full rampager should work better than full dire?
i fear i’ll lose too much survivability..
any change on sigils/runes/utility skills?

thank you again

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Sorry to break it to you, but dire needs to be changed to rabid.
Most the mesmers conditions will come from clone crits causing the bleed stacks, therefor you NEED precision.
As for the traitline is fine, standard PU condi that is a good 1v1 roamer, but you will gave issues killing people as they can simply walk away from you. (in dire gear you wont be able to condi burst them down even if they do stay to fight)

thank you, i edited the post title and the build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGeqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

can you explain me how full rampager should work better than full dire?
i fear i’ll lose too much survivability..
any change on sigils/runes/utility skills?

thank you again

I would pick rabid over rampagers as well.
Once again it’s all about dem crits to stack your bleeds.
You should be fine in terms of survivability, our base hp is a tad higher than a thieves and you will still have plenty of toughness. And in close to permanant protection (-33% damage) and aegis on every stealth in which you also regen up again you should be able to survive most 1vX encounters.
Your utilities are upto you, Id take a reliable condi cleanse over mirror images (mantra/null field/disenchanter).

Neptune.2570:

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Sorry to break it to you, but dire needs to be changed to rabid.
Most the mesmers conditions will come from clone crits causing the bleed stacks, therefor you NEED precision.
As for the traitline is fine, standard PU condi that is a good 1v1 roamer, but you will gave issues killing people as they can simply walk away from you. (in dire gear you wont be able to condi burst them down even if they do stay to fight)

thank you, i edited the post title and the build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGeqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

can you explain me how full rampager should work better than full dire?
i fear i’ll lose too much survivability..
any change on sigils/runes/utility skills?

thank you again

I would pick rabid over rampagers as well.
Once again it’s all about dem crits to stack your bleeds.
You should be fine in terms of survivability, our base hp is a tad higher than a thieves and you will still have plenty of toughness. And in close to permanant protection (-33% damage) and aegis on every stealth in which you also regen up again you should be able to survive most 1vX encounters.
Your utilities are upto you, Id take a reliable condi cleanse over mirror images (mantra/null field/disenchanter).

yea sorry, i wrote rampager but i meant “rabid”..

this is my final build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGmqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

changed Mirror Images with Null Field (even tho i was picking Arcane Thievery for more condi spike)
i suppose that sigils and runes are good as they are right?

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Sorry to break it to you, but dire needs to be changed to rabid.
Most the mesmers conditions will come from clone crits causing the bleed stacks, therefor you NEED precision.
As for the traitline is fine, standard PU condi that is a good 1v1 roamer, but you will gave issues killing people as they can simply walk away from you. (in dire gear you wont be able to condi burst them down even if they do stay to fight)

thank you, i edited the post title and the build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGeqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

can you explain me how full rampager should work better than full dire?
i fear i’ll lose too much survivability..
any change on sigils/runes/utility skills?

thank you again

I would pick rabid over rampagers as well.
Once again it’s all about dem crits to stack your bleeds.
You should be fine in terms of survivability, our base hp is a tad higher than a thieves and you will still have plenty of toughness. And in close to permanant protection (-33% damage) and aegis on every stealth in which you also regen up again you should be able to survive most 1vX encounters.
Your utilities are upto you, Id take a reliable condi cleanse over mirror images (mantra/null field/disenchanter).

yea sorry, i wrote rampager but i meant “rabid”..

this is my final build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGmqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

changed Mirror Images with Null Field (even tho i was picking Arcane Thievery for more condi spike)
i suppose that sigils and runes are good as they are right?

There we go :P
Sigils and runes are good, maybe pick up a generosity/purity in the offhand instead of endurance. Either way endurance is fine as well

Neptune.2570:

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Sorry to break it to you, but dire needs to be changed to rabid.
Most the mesmers conditions will come from clone crits causing the bleed stacks, therefor you NEED precision.
As for the traitline is fine, standard PU condi that is a good 1v1 roamer, but you will gave issues killing people as they can simply walk away from you. (in dire gear you wont be able to condi burst them down even if they do stay to fight)

thank you, i edited the post title and the build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGeqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

can you explain me how full rampager should work better than full dire?
i fear i’ll lose too much survivability..
any change on sigils/runes/utility skills?

thank you again

I would pick rabid over rampagers as well.
Once again it’s all about dem crits to stack your bleeds.
You should be fine in terms of survivability, our base hp is a tad higher than a thieves and you will still have plenty of toughness. And in close to permanant protection (-33% damage) and aegis on every stealth in which you also regen up again you should be able to survive most 1vX encounters.
Your utilities are upto you, Id take a reliable condi cleanse over mirror images (mantra/null field/disenchanter).

yea sorry, i wrote rampager but i meant “rabid”..

this is my final build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGmqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

changed Mirror Images with Null Field (even tho i was picking Arcane Thievery for more condi spike)
i suppose that sigils and runes are good as they are right?

There we go :P
Sigils and runes are good, maybe pick up a generosity/purity in the offhand instead of endurance. Either way endurance is fine as well

Generosity is kitten expensive for me atm :P but i’ll keep an eye on it!
i don’t like Purity that much, Endurance may be better to dodge extra attacks popping out more clones

last question:
i’m not sure if there is an official “PU condi meta build” but if there is, in what this build is different?
Because i think it’s great

thank yuo again and again Neptune

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Riccardo.7254:

Neptune.2570:

Sorry to break it to you, but dire needs to be changed to rabid.
Most the mesmers conditions will come from clone crits causing the bleed stacks, therefor you NEED precision.
As for the traitline is fine, standard PU condi that is a good 1v1 roamer, but you will gave issues killing people as they can simply walk away from you. (in dire gear you wont be able to condi burst them down even if they do stay to fight)

thank you, i edited the post title and the build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGeqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

can you explain me how full rampager should work better than full dire?
i fear i’ll lose too much survivability..
any change on sigils/runes/utility skills?

thank you again

I would pick rabid over rampagers as well.
Once again it’s all about dem crits to stack your bleeds.
You should be fine in terms of survivability, our base hp is a tad higher than a thieves and you will still have plenty of toughness. And in close to permanant protection (-33% damage) and aegis on every stealth in which you also regen up again you should be able to survive most 1vX encounters.
Your utilities are upto you, Id take a reliable condi cleanse over mirror images (mantra/null field/disenchanter).

yea sorry, i wrote rampager but i meant “rabid”..

this is my final build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISjaWsGmqB3aGp0YMdOHdDJDoiS2R5A-TFCEwAJUCOT9H77PQS3AAzfNeCAPuIACV+BA-w

changed Mirror Images with Null Field (even tho i was picking Arcane Thievery for more condi spike)
i suppose that sigils and runes are good as they are right?

There we go :P
Sigils and runes are good, maybe pick up a generosity/purity in the offhand instead of endurance. Either way endurance is fine as well

Generosity is kitten expensive for me atm :P but i’ll keep an eye on it!
i don’t like Purity that much, Endurance may be better to dodge extra attacks popping out more clones

last question:
i’m not sure if there is an official “PU condi meta build” but if there is, in what this build is different?
Because i think it’s great

thank yuo again and again Neptune

You will have close to perma vigor from your dueling minor and clones shouldn’t be shattered (except an emergence f4)
It is pretty much identical to the Meta for PU condi roamers (it is only viable for wvw roaming, so not sure if it can be called meta?) but there’s is dependance on 6/7 of your major traits, so most PU condi builds will look like this.
No problem, happy roaming!

I roam with a Modified version of the Napalm Cat build. 0/6/6/2/0 with harmonious mantras. I can take down multiple enemies with it, very resistant to condition dmg and melee. Thiefs hate it, the toughest enemy for me are engies.

can you link your build Jenzie?
i’m willing to learn as much as possible

I am not much of a WvWer, so take this with a grain of salt. But as to your point on Arcane Trickery earlier, you should know that you need a target for the skill to work at all. So if you’re about to die to a stealthed thief and have poison on you need to clear that condi immediately and pop your heal. Arcane Thievery throws a wrench in that (and other) situations.

Null Field is nice for the dual offensive (boon stripping) and defensive (condi cleansing) utility but forces you to stay fairly immobile if you want it to cleanse more than 1 condi reliably.

Mantra cleanse is by far the most reliable but offers 0 beyond pure condi removal.

since i’m going to wvw roam most of the time (ofc in EB and Borders – not in eotm) do you have any suggestion on what matchups i should avoid and those where i can throw myself in?

coming from a p/d condi thief i had to learn all my opponent weaknesses to know what and where to hit :P

thx again

I have several recommendation.

First, do not use signet of the ether. It is a bad skill even in a phantasm build for PvP, and abysmal in this build. You’re never going to activate it, so you’re only using it for healing. Ether feast heals more even if you have 3 clones out 100% of the time…which you won’t, so use ether feast instead.

Null field is not a good choice. All glamours are group utility skills. They have long cooldowns and strong aoe effects that make them good in group fights, but decidedly useless in small fights. Enemies will simply walk around the field, and you’re tied to a tiny area if you want to get that condition removal. Instead, use the pDisenchanter, which basically does what null field does but doesn’t tie it to an aoe, and it does it faster and stronger.

Veil is a waste of a utility slot. The 90 second cooldown makes it largely useless. It’s nice once every 90 seconds…but that’s not good, particularly because you’re sacrificing blink for it. Instead of veil, take blink to gain another stunbreaker and far more mobility.

With blink, you’ll need to trait long range manipulations (dueling I) instead of desperate decoy. Desperate decoy is a bad trait. Being a thief, I’m sure you know and hate the trait ‘last refuge’. Desperate decoy is the Mesmer version, but you don’t have to take it…so don’t.

Lastly, traveler runes are crap. They won’t allow you to actually catch someone that wants to run (i.e. Nike warrior/thief), so they’re just for moving around the map faster. Take a focus in your inventory and swap that in to drop temporal curtain every 20 seconds for swiftness out of combat. Now you ckittene actually useful runes like perplexity or undead.

Edit: Cann….Use…
I’m not trying to slip in a reference to your poop chute Anet, kitten …

Riccardo.7254:

can you link your build Jenzie?
i’m willing to learn as much as possible

It’s a build made by Osicat. I just saw he changed his build the same as I did in version 2.0, from 2/4/6/2/0 to 0/6/6/2/0. You loose imobelize and vulnerabilty but gain precision and harmonius mantras (HM). HM together with Menders purity is soooo nice. I loose 2 conditions on every heal so a full heal drops 6 conditions.

In his new build ‘Osicat use Dire gear, I haven’t tried that with this build, might be nice but you loose some bleeds but gain a lot of hp. Will test after i written this.

Heres the link to Osicats builds.
http://osicat.weebly.com/traitsgear-guide.html
Napalm Cat 2.0 is the one. But I use it with full Rabid gear. Sometimes when I feel kitteny I drop the torch and bring a pistol for bleeds and stun, works too.

This build is good against 1-3 opponents, then it gets weak IMHO, the conditions are spread out on too many players. Camps take a while but are doable, I engage the boss and the others die from collateral.

Osicat in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5qHuPoY3W0

Fay.2357:

Lastly, traveler runes are crap. They won’t allow you to actually catch someone that wants to run (i.e. Nike warrior/thief), so they’re just for moving around the map faster. Take a focus in your inventory and swap that in to drop temporal curtain every 20 seconds for swiftness out of combat. Now you ckittene actually useful runes like perplexity or undead.

You don’t wear Travelers so you can catch people, a condi mesmer can pretty much forgo any hope of doing so. You wear them so you’re not a sitting duck for every zerg that flies in from around a corner. Getting caught with the focus as your offhand instead of your torch puts you in combat and you can’t change back. I rely on that torch being there in unexpected situations. If Travelers are for getting around the map faster, so is the focus with otherwise limited and buggy functionality. For a roamer, mobility is everything.

Yes, there are options with better stats, more condition damage, etc. But I don’t agree that the Travelers are crap. I run a torment shatter build, and I keep two sets of gear on me, one with Tormenting runes and one with Travelers. The Tormenting runes are fun because the damage increase is noticeable, but against some jobs with which keeping a distance is crucial (some eles and engis, even thieves), the Travelers perform much better. Just as I notice the damage increase from the more offensive runes, I also notice moving like a sloth and eating more AoE damage.

You’re not wrong, of course, just unreasonably unyielding.

I agree that getting caught with a focus can be a very bad situation. The way I use the focus is double-click—>4—>double-click. This way it’s never equipped for more than about 1 second at a time. Even so, there have been one or two times when I’ve been stuck with it, and those weren’t too good. However, I see that as a minor price to pay for using runes that actually work for what I want.

Neither traveler runes nor permaswiftness will allow you to outrun a Zerg. You avoid zergs through good map awareness and creative use of your stealths and blinks to gain and create distance…not in a straight line. If you do it right, you can often get the Zerg to chase you in circles for a few minutes before they realize that they have something better to do.

I suspect part of the reason for your reliance on traveler runes is that you’re running a bad build. Since torment shatter builds are bad, that necessarily means you need more help to just survive at all, whereas a better roaming build wouldn’t need that.

Fay.2357:

I suspect part of the reason for your reliance on traveler runes is that you’re running a bad build. Since torment shatter builds are bad, that necessarily means you need more help to just survive at all, whereas a better roaming build wouldn’t need that.

I’ve been using one quite successfully since the trait was released. I find it much easier to take on more than one opponent with it than on PU Power which I ran before, or Blackwater which requires enemies to be dumb enough to target and kill your clones, which they often don’t. I don’t often come across an opponent I can’t kill 1v1 with it, aside from eles and engis. Sure, you can’t take PU with it, but if you can’t survive without PU, I’m not sure it’s the build that’s bad.

That said, you are the forum god, and based on what I’m sure was extensive testing you’ve declared the builds bad, so there’s little left to discuss.

Any build with the torment shatter trait is necessarily worse than other builds that could exist. That trait simply doesn’t provide enough of an effect for shattering, causing you to burn large amounts of resources for uncertain, low damage.

Can it kill some people? Sure. Unfortunately, it’s countered extremely easily through dodging or blocking the shatters, which is a counter the doesn’t exist for clone-death builds. PU power builds (imo) aren’t very good, but if you think PU condie requires people to target and kill your clones, then you were playing it incredibly wrong.

It also forces you to avoid the stronger defensive traits that Mesmer has in favor of shatter traits to make it work. This in particular is why you’ll have much more trouble avoiding roaming zergs in that sort of build compared to PU builds. Basically you end up with all the vulnerabilities of shatter and none of the insane burst. It’s a shame because the trait is fun though.