Guild Wars 2

as a mesmer i think anyone can see how this MINOR trait is insane OP right now, this even it was a elite trait would be OP but a minor trait? please just nerf this or otherwise soon everyone will play mesmer.

make it only 3 stack might full shatter, 9 stack might is just insane for a MINOR trait….

It’s supposed to only give you 3 stacks, but independent of whether you shatter 1 or 3 illusions.

@Possante, I cant realy understand the philosophy to ask for nerf on your own class to make your specc in compare more valid. Dont you agree its would bee better for you if whatever spec/class you want to run got a buff?

we got other minor traits that also is extremly strong, bleed on crit for once, and now vigour 5 sec on crit with 5 sec cd is kinda a insanly strong for a spec who get clones on dodge.

Btw you underrestimate the impact on the might thu, we have 4 shatters so its 12 stacks, unless you play a spec who reset shatters at 50% hp then its another 12, and if you use sigil of reset shatters its 12 again. See I can also play this forums game

<3

@Carighan, well the most common stack you had before was 8 in a burst but for 5 sec, now its 9 for 10sec unless you use shatter nr 4 who should give 3 more stacks. I will tets this soon.

/Osicat

isnt 12 stack might because dont stack with ilusionar persona, so 3 clones each one give 3 might = 9 stack might.

my build is a shatter build, 20/20/0/0/30 so this change make me fell like some god playing GW2. common those 9 stack might perma in combat are just insane (and you can easy reach 20 stack might)

in this patcj i just want they correct delay from phantasm atack, they didi i and work great now but now they add this insane minor trait that IMO will ruin spvp completly.

and if you use mirror…. well you sure know the combo with mirror

Osicat.4139:

@Possante, I cant realy understand the philosophy to ask for nerf on your own class to make your specc in compare more valid. Dont you agree its would bee better for you if whatever spec/class you want to run got a buff?

we got other minor traits that also is extremly strong, bleed on crit for once, and now vigour 5 sec on crit with 5 sec cd is kinda a insanly strong for a spec who get clones on dodge.

Btw you underrestimate the impact on the might thu, we have 4 shatters so its 12 stacks, unless you play a spec who reset shatters at 50% hp then its another 12, and if you use sigil of reset shatters its 12 again. See I can also play this forums game

<3

@Carighan, well the most common stack you had before was 8 in a burst but for 5 sec, now its 9 for 10sec unless you use shatter nr 4 who should give 3 more stacks. I will tets this soon.

/Osicat

As much as I hate to admit it, the trait is insanely overpowered now. It is 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds PER CLONE SHATTERED. This means that any shatter mesmer is going to be bursting with between 9 and 18 stacks of might at ALL TIMES. It does not take illusionary persona into account, or it would be even more overpowered. Even on my tank build, which is only slightly based around shattering, I have around 10 stacks of might permanently in my test fights with the HoM npcs. This trait just went from being in a good place, providing decent might stacks that complement a build, to allowing mesmers to instantly burst 18 stacks of might, and even capping at 25 stacks in about 5 seconds if specced properly. It is unbelievably insane, and is not going to last the way it is.

1 might each clone would be ok, now is to much damage increase.

So after we get nerfed to the ground patch after patch and a really nice buff pops up we should start screaming to get rid of it? Two options: a) You are trolling, not really maining mesmer b) You lack a reasonable ammount of brain cells. And why the hell should everything be balanced on spvp?? That has lead to mesmers being nerfed to hell and back in the first place. And really this is not unbalancing at all given the current state of mesmers. Ask for a nerf after we get fixed, not before…

blundby.4310:

So after we get nerfed to the ground patch after patch and a really nice buff pops up we should start screaming to get rid of it? Two options: a) You are trolling, not really maining mesmer b) You lack a reasonable ammount of brain cells. And why the hell should everything be balanced on spvp?? That has lead to mesmers being nerfed to hell and back in the first place…

Sure, it makes sense to get 20 stack might and 15sec reta with shatter combo?

THATS JUST SERIOUSLY BROKEN They have to take it back.

I’m only getting 3 stacks per shatter no matter how many clones are out

I play exclusively a shatter mesmer and I feel that the change was made out of place.

It just feels like they’re tweaking skills randomly without knowing what they’re doing. I don’t know anyone that doesn’t play a glasscannon shatter mesmer in tPvP because it’s a highly viable playstyle atm. This might change does not promote build diversity at all. There’s a reason why Oscicat’s shattercat build is so good compared to everything else.

I just wish they made builds more versatile by making traits less “messy”… Like not have defensive shatter traits in Inspiration (Phantasm/Glamour) tree.

I’m not saying stacking might is OP for the mesmer. Mesmers actually have trouble stacking boons compared to other classes (e.g. swiftness and recent illusionary membrane stealth-nerf).

@Blundby, I think mesmers are so unused to get buffs they just cant handle it. Like ppl win the lottery and cry tears while they have hard handle the situation. This buff is the best aimed buff to shatter mesmers I seen in combo with vigour buff. Finaly thatter mesmers can use both condition dmg and same time gear for crit dmg, the might stacks will give confusion dmg a solid strenth and ppl will think before counterattack us if they at 20% hp with 12 stacks of confusion and we have 10-18 stacks of might.

/Osicat

heard of a little thing called boon removal guys?

yes im a mesmer, lvl40 rank. i use shatter build canon glass like 90% of mesmer on pvp.
anyone play mesmer on pvp can see easy this minor traits is to much OP.

what was wrong with mesmer was mostly important the delay on phantasm atack, they fixed that and now that atack almost instantly, we dont need this insane minor traits that is better than any mesmer elite trait.

that delay and LOS was the mesmer problem, not lack of damage, that we have a lot

be able to have always 9stack might and with spikes 20-25 might is just INSANE. this without any might buff or any might sigil

boon removal? are you serious? almost none class can remove boons efectly and even necros cant do nothing against this might stack because we can stack them so easy. we have 4 shaters ability not 1 (not counting trait reset shaters)

is like saying necros are great at removing ele perma boons …..

seems like the arenanet guys working on spvp dont play the game at all !!!!!! who the hell was expecting such big buff on this minor trait? people were expecting LOS issues fixed( dont even know if they fixed that) and phantasm delay fix (great now) not big increase in our dps

blundby.4310:

So after we get nerfed to the ground patch after patch and a really nice buff pops up we should start screaming to get rid of it?

Actually no, if you are interested in balance, you don’t want insular buffs to specific traits which make said traits mandatory in comparison to other options or even – in this case – other classes.

Osicat.4139:

@Blundby, I think mesmers are so unused to get buffs they just cant handle it. Like ppl win the lottery and cry tears while they have hard handle the situation.
/Osicat

I concur – I was pondering about this earlier and realised it opens whole new playstyles. My Guardian doesn’t need to wear glass cannon gear because I get so many boons to help with damage.

Now mesmer have good access to boons, I can mix more condition damage into my shatter build since it gets buffed by might, that in turn led me to realise that if I went all-out boon duration buffs on my runes and took some ranks in chaos I can become a buff-bot for my team, and still do decent damage all round with shatters, staff and sword.

Such a small change opened up so many possibilities, there’s now multiple ways to spec shatter

It does feel too strong. In a sense if became a second Illusionist’s Celerity. Even I, someone who does not advocate shattering because I feel our clones are like Aegis, get lured by shatter.

It’s not bad, mind. I play an hybrid spec so I shatter when I need to shatter and I let clones sit around like distracting targets to lure the boss into wasting its attacks on them.

I like the change. It does push me into shattering more often. I’m just not sure how long it will stick around.

nooooooo don’t touch this!!!!! the thing’s is awesome. if they’re changing it in the future and make it so its only 1 stack per clone do it so its for 20sec and not 10. I’m soooo perfectly fine playing with 17-25 stacks almost at all time tho lol

Meanwhile smart players realize that they can take these stacks of might to do same burst they used to do before patch, while buffing the abilities they lack most.
(you know…same cannon, less glassy)

I don’t necessarily feel they should nerf this but they should really buff other spec as I can see less and less reasons to not play a shatter focused build now. Maybe you can play around with shatter builds a bit more but you still have to go deep into the illusion tree and are not given much choice if you don’t like to rely heavily on shatters.
I’m also quite scared of what such a buff could bring in terms of nerfs in the future.

Osicat.4139:

@Blundby, I think mesmers are so unused to get buffs they just cant handle it. Like ppl win the lottery and cry tears while they have hard handle the situation. This buff is the best aimed buff to shatter mesmers I seen in combo with vigour buff. Finaly thatter mesmers can use both condition dmg and same time gear for crit dmg, the might stacks will give confusion dmg a solid strenth and ppl will think before counterattack us if they at 20% hp with 12 stacks of confusion and we have 10-18 stacks of might.

/Osicat

I know alot of this view is from a sPvP perspective, but this might buff is extremely useful for shatter builds in terms of PvE.

PvE :
I used to feel somewhat unfair that a phantasm build has the highest single-target dps for bosses. They basically output 3phantasms, proceed to use a select few dps skills and re-regenerate phantasms when they die. Then here I am, on my shatter-build, using up almost all my skills in coordination and doing almost double the APM only to barely match-up to x3 phantasms’ dps.

Sometimes I even felt that leaving out x3 iWarlocks would do more dps in a shatter-build than bothering to coordinate clone shatters and phantasm attack cycles. This might-buff increased my PvE dps no doubt, but with no “dps-meter” available, i can’t really comment weither it is over the top or not, but please do consider shatter-builds are semi-melee and would try to land illusionary personsa’s self-shatter too.

sPvP :
I will say that I am only rank24 , so I am not that experienced in high tier sPvP gameplay. Maybe its just the habit of non-high tier sPvPers but, I would like to use 100Blades / backstab / C&D spam as comparsion tools (no offense meant).

Comparison : I agree there are usually very simple counter-measures to all of the above bursts, but the problem lies in actively having that counter available. Skilled warriors/thiefs know how to watch for your cooldown and just instant K.O you with their bursts.

So, shouldn’t glass-cannon mesmers be able to do such similar burst too? First off I would like to add that having this “constant 10+ might stack” requires either or a combination of:

Considerations :
1.) Pre-burst time to set-up clones and successfully shatter.
(Shatters, something to time and watchout for.)

-Illusions have usually been rendered useless by AoE and “losing their value” against better players as they learn to identify the real mesmer. So this trait makes shatter something to time for, other classes would have to use their AoE with considerations, during a shatter animation, rather than just use it when phantasm are out. They now have a reason to AoE normal clones.
(non-related sidenote: Map completion star makes me kitten. Yes, I want to use my main character >_<)

2.) Use of endurance (dodging) or utility slots, namely, decoy and mirror images.
(Making boon-stacking builds and clone generation skills more viable.)

-To obtain 10stacks of might without using any of the above would require a subtaintial amount of set-up time.Weapon skills usually generate 1 clone + 1phantasm.
Note: This may be an indirect buff to scepters? Scepter has been seen as weak and now this trait may open out viable builds for scepters.

-Mesmers have 4 shatter skills cooldowns assuming an illusionary personal shatter-build (shortest CD on shatters).
>Distortion(45s CD) is a survival button and unlikely to be used in bursting.
>Diversion(35s CD) inflicts daze.
>Cry of Frustration(23s CD) inflicts confusion and minor damage.
>MindWreck(11s CD) inflicts heavy damage, usually base damage of 2k per illusion.
Thus, to obtain on-demand 9stack might to burst WITH MindWreck would require another shatter before hand. This means a total of 6 illusions, out of which 3 must be quickly generated to be effective.

-Mirror images have been considered sub-par when better options such as portal / blink /decoy / nullfield / signet of donimation all contest for utility slots. With this trait, mirror images are worth considering.

Other stuff: I have only considered burst-situations as this seems to be the issue at hand, quick-heavy might stack bursts. All these is also my personal view but mainly, this buff is deserved in PvE for shatter-builds. sPvP I am no top-player expert so I will only state my thoughts. Sorry for long post and peace out

Ummm…for once, after awhile…we get buffs in OUR favor after the constant nerfs and bugs. Call me selfish, but no. I don’t say no to blessings. If you wanna suffer, roll a different class for now. No offense to masochists.

This patch just opened up for condition/shatter specs build. It’s been awhile since a different build opened for us. SPECIALLY in pve and wvw.

You contradict yourself, you’re playing a Mesmer, and you don’t know if our LOS is fixed yet. You’re playing sPVP, meaning you’re competitive enough to play that lane and yet you complain by winning? No, you’re not a mesmer. You’re probably a Necro judging by your post and got hit by a mesmer.

Play a different class for now. Pick the nerfed ones…oh wait…they all got buffed as well!

PUMP.3708:

Ummm…for once, after awhile…we get buffs in OUR favor after the constant nerfs and bugs. Call me selfish, but no. I don’t say no to blessings. If you wanna suffer, roll a different class for now. No offense to masochists.

This patch just opened up for condition/shatter specs build. It’s been awhile since a different build opened for us. SPECIALLY in pve and wvw.

You contradict yourself, you’re playing a Mesmer, and you don’t know if our LOS is fixed yet. You’re playing sPVP, meaning you’re competitive enough to play that lane and yet you complain by winning? No, you’re not a mesmer. You’re probably a Necro judging by your post and got hit by a mesmer.

Play a different class for now. Pick the nerfed ones…oh wait…they all got buffed as well!

my main was necro long time ago, than my team need e mesmer and that is my main now., win more tournamnets with mesmer than necro. yes im a mesmer lvl 40 and dont know if LOS is already fixed because only play for a few minutes after patch -.-

if you want i cant take a pic with my mesmer tournaments wins just so you can see i play mesmer.

that trait is OP for a minor trait period. is a big buff and im pretty sure will not last long, we got on this patch lot of bugs/fixes so we dont need those extra might for nothing.

mesmer canon glass were never “glass” but now they are like a super canon. have 9 might perma in combat is OP dont know why you cant see it. (mind warck with 15might , 52%critic damage and +250power from sigil critic damage is just insane)

ele perma protection is a bug, this insane minor trait not, something must be wrong. at this rate game never be balanced because is clear arenanet dont know what they are doing. every patch appear new bugs and buffs that dont remember to anyone

/Double facepalm

Since I started playing it is the very first non-nerf patch for Mesmers… I do like some love.

Also, we don’t need to call for self nerfs. If so, the nerf bat might hit so hard that they’ll make the trait worse than it was before this buff…

possante.8310:

my main was necro long time ago, than my team need e mesmer and that is my main now., win more tournamnets with mesmer than necro. yes im a mesmer lvl 40 and dont know if LOS is already fixed because only play for a few minutes after patch -.-

if you want i cant take a pic with my mesmer tournaments wins just so you can see i play mesmer.

that trait is OP for a minor trait period. is a big buff and im pretty sure will not last long, we got on this patch lot of bugs/fixes so we dont need those extra might for nothing.

mesmer canon glass were never “glass” but now they are like a super canon. have 9 might perma in combat is OP dont know why you cant see it. (mind warck with 15might , 52%critic damage and +250power from sigil critic damage is just insane)

ele perma protection is a bug, this insane minor trait not, something must be wrong. at this rate game never be balanced because is clear arenanet dont know what they are doing. every patch appear new bugs and buffs that dont remember to anyone

We can clearly see the how it’s strong. But why should we cry for nerfs when they haven’t even fixed the other problems yet. Sooner or later, this will get fixed but no reason for us to call for nerfs.

Let us enjoy the blessings first prior to any nerfs that might come along the way. And it will come for sure. Period.

Like you said, you haven’t played a lot yet since this patch. Wait and see first how the other classes are buffed up.

I apologize if I came up too strong there, wasn’t my intention. I’m just really happy for this buff. Most of the patch notes change are more “fixes” than buffs. As oppose to the normal constant bugs and nerfs.

For instance, iZerker still misses on the 2nd chain of attacks completely. Los is still a lot of issue. In WvW, you have to be literally out in the open to be able to play a shatter build. It’s fun, but we’re so pigeonholed to the point where every one plays shatters and everyone knows how to counter it.

Cant believe some of u ppl are actualy defending this, its obviously completly out of balance and needs a quick fix. Look at the ele forum, we got a bug where we get about 30s protection instead of 3 and everyone agrees it needs to get fixed fast meanwhile u guys are acting like this is a well deserved buff. Its not like mesmers are underpowered i mean why do almost all the top teams run with 1 then.

I was thinking… Deceptive Evasion so good that 20 of you 70 trait point will be gone pretty much 100% fo the times (at least on my builds). another 25 of the 50 available is a no brainer now for Illusions. So at the end, you have 25 free points to make a build lol very flexible.

possante.8310:

as a mesmer i think anyone can see how this MINOR trait is insane OP right now, this even it was a elite trait would be OP but a minor trait? please just nerf this or otherwise soon everyone will play mesmer.

make it only 3 stack might full shatter, 9 stack might is just insane for a MINOR trait….

As a thief I think anyone can see how this “minor” trait is 25 points deep into the Illusions traitline, and does not easily apply to all mesmer builds. It is a timely buff for a class that has many bugs and have been left out for too many patches.

Considering what other classes have damage-output wise I really don’t see this as a major problem considering how fast the stacks can drop off.

Why is this an issue? other classes can get 100% 20 stacks of might. Who cares…

yap after some hot join match i dont know how cant say this isnt OP. we need buffs and with this patch he get like ton of them: vigor buff, phantasm delay gone and a insane increase of damage.

we dont need the last one, damage is something clearly dont miss on shatter builds and this might stack buff is for shatter builds, dont exist any other build that benefict so much from might stack

before patch almost mesmer on pvp were already use a canon glass shatter build now with this buff build will be even more limited on spvp.

that might buff could be 3 per clone on PvE and just 1 on sPvP, that is balanced right now is clear OP, can kill anyone easy and im just a normal player a top player mesmer must be LOL with this increase of damage

im complain about some great buff in my class? yes i am, because i want a balanced game. is like saying perma protection on ele is ok

PearlGore.7419:

Why is this an issue? other classes can get 100% 20 stacks of might. Who cares…

I’m pretty sure the guy complaining doesn’t play any other classes or is completely blind to the mechanics or general damage of other classes in this game.

And here he goes again…. Ok, give it a couple months, see if mesmers dominate the leaderboards… If they are, devs please take a look, if not…. well self explanatory…

The absolute stupidity is nerfcalling without testing. Especially when its your own class… I just don’t get it!

If you want a balanced pvp game there are plenty of fps to play. There everyone are the same (clones) and balance is well… Perfect! That is the only way to keep true balance. Everyone who has played mmo’s for a while know mmo’ balance is not static, it comes in waves of nerfs and buffs…

GW2 will never be an esport… Just forget it! Try to have fun and enjoy the buff while it lasts without trying to self sabotage!

Instead of asking for a nerf of this, which I think was needed, ask for buffs to other specs which are underperforming. Mesmer is already too weak in many specs right now because people keep demanding nerfs without much sense.

Or do this NERF THIS damn trait and give us reliable swiftness

reliable swiftness? yeah right i am STILL forced to use Focus if i want swiftness

signet of insparation yeah lets pray for swiftness to procs

I seriously can’t understand why anyone would want to self nerf this if they are playing mesmer. It is a bit strong but so what? I main a warrior and I can get 25 stacks on my own with a shout, and elite signet (both of which also give me perma-fury) and a greatsword 20pt trait. I don’t even use a sigil of strength on my weapons either.

Eles can stack 10-15 stacks of might in one round of combos. Thief can have 15 stacks of might for 10 seconds using a signet trait. Boon duration runes and/or food ftw. I play all of these. Including a mesmer. Mesmer needs buffs trust me.

I think this ability needs to be balanced. Mesmers are too much of a one-trick-poney now. What made this profession awesome in guild wars 1 was their ability to COUNTER other classes. In this game everything is just too simple. Confusion isn’t a counter, it’s an easily inflicted lock down that takes no skill to perform. Shattering is now arguably the best repeatable burst damage in the game. Meanwhile, they nerfed tank builds and phantasm are still weak. Don’t even get me started on condition damage.

What happened to the post where ArenaNet said they were nerfing burst damage across the board (meaning the warrior, thief, and the mesmer)? Instead they made burst damage stronger, more desirable, and even easier to deliver. Thieves, for example, are now even faster, meaning their probability of landing a backstab is even higher.

I just don’t understand they devs. I’m glad they tried to fix us, but honestly I feel that they don’t live up to their promises and that they rarely acknowledge what their players want. Thank you for attemting to fix us, but in the next patch I would prefer a nerf to shattering, hundred blades, and backstab (like it was promised) and a buff to other builds, like my tank build and condition builds with the scepter. Don’t let the most unique class fall into the trap of being focused on one thing.

Mere Image: I agree with most of your posts but feel that rather than nerf burst dmg builds across the board, they should bring the weaker classes a bit up to par. That way every class can feel somewhat useful.

spacelion.9865:

I seriously can’t understand why anyone would want to self nerf this if they are playing mesmer. It is a bit strong but so what? I main a warrior and I can get 25 stacks on my own with a shout, and elite signet (both of which also give me perma-fury) and a greatsword 20pt trait. I don’t even use a sigil of strength on my weapons either.

Eles can stack 10-15 stacks of might in one round of combos. Thief can have 15 stacks of might for 10 seconds using a signet trait. Boon duration runes and/or food ftw. I play all of these. Including a mesmer. Mesmer needs buffs trust me.

Yeah, I don’t get it. It’s not as easy as other classes can manage (as usual) and a couple folks want it nerfed just because the devs haven’t gotten around to looking at condition builds.

Lol shatter mesmers were not already too much damage before?

GJ lol.

Reroll shatter mesmer.

Everybody knows Warriors have this right?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword

I can easily keep 20+ stacks of might up using that.

Guys sorry to burst your bubble but I don’t use shattered strength, and I usually keep 9-12 stacks of might up all times.

It’s not overpowered at all.

Good lord, you people are hard to please. Accept the buff graciously.
(though I do expect it to be changed to one application per shatter ability not per illusion shattered).

what ! You’re telling me that they BUFFED us! How could they! I demand a nerf right now because I hate having fun in this game!

Wow, big deal, so you now can have a reliable way of 9 stacks of might without relying on random bounces on GS 2? Other classes have many/way more reliable ways of stacking might, I don’t understand the big deal with the trait. Nothing wrong with a buff to the class, considering ANET basically just buffed every single class if you read the patch notes.

spacelion.9865:

Mere Image: I agree with most of your posts but feel that rather than nerf burst dmg builds across the board, they should bring the weaker classes a bit up to par. That way every class can feel somewhat useful.

This.

It’s not that I want us to be nerfed. I just want some of our other builds to be equally viable. Mesmers in guild wars 1 built themselves to counter different classes. Now the best builds, undoubtedly, rely on shatter bombing. Anything else is limited in effectiveness comparatively.

Perhaps it’s a perfect imbalance to drive people to learn to counter mesmers?

does this make us better then theives and bunker eles? :P

Stratigo.1976:

does this make us better then theives and bunker eles? :P

No.

For comparison, warriors can routinely get 25 stacks of might versus multiple targets. I play with one that is always shouting out in vent “25! Warp me!” Guardians can’t stack so deep, but then when they might up, they’re also applied to the group. Old Staff empower (haven’t checked new one) could put on 60 total stacks of might.

So, while this is a big buff for mesmers and actually gives the class a reason to sometimes slot SI and use it other than lyssa/elite sharing, it’s actually weaker than what other classes can do and is tied to a mechanic that has more risk and player skill than other classes.

Just wait, they’ll nerf this. We aren’t allowed to be on par to other classes.

This single trait is so powerful that it could turn a weak burst class into a viable burst class. So, yes, it is overpowered for the mesmer. Mesmers are already strong at bursting with shatters. You’re going to see, and it’s starting to happen, shatter-burst mesmers with 20+ stacks of might, while spreading them to their entire team. It’s too much.

You can cry all you want, the mesmer has been one of the strongest professions in pvp since the release of the game, and giving them overpowered traits on top of that is not “putting them on par to other classes”. There’s a reason for why Mesmers, alongside bunker eles, guardians and thieves have been the most nerfed classes since the game is out, and it’s certainly not because they were underpowered like the old rangers/ necros.