Guild Wars 2

basically most of posts are like " are you crazy asking for nerf on an op trait? you play mesmer too! if we get an op trait we shouldn’t tell to anyone this! "
And then it continue with " remember when other classees were op? it wasn’t fair "
Well a bit hypocrite

we get nerfed every1 complains. we get a buff people complains…..lol wut? half the ppl in here QQing are prob not even mesmers. the ones that are…i sort of understand where you are coming from…but instead asking for a build you dont use to get nerfed, our other builds get buffed too… like sceptor ( i like this wep alot) and idk torch (never ever in a million years will u see me use this in pvp).

Just wait, they’ll nerf this. We aren’t allowed to be on par to other classes.

^ this is basically it. its almost like people just want a reason to complain

I suggest you guys go play other classes to see how efficient the might stacking can be and then come back to say how “overpowered” keeping on average 9 stacks up really is. I would’ve rather they boosted other builds, but in a way this is an indirect boost to more defensive builds and condition builds so it has some basis behind it. I think you should all take into consideration how relatively weak confusion builds are in spvp before spouting off that it doesn’t need a boost in this situation.

finally i have something for my signet of inspiration to share with my teammates and u guys wanna nerf it…….

More like people are making a huge deal of something that isn’t as big of a deal as people think. Many other classes can stack just as much might and more with their skills/traits, as people have stated before in this thread, but people don’t complain about them.

You can get 18 stacks of might with a double 3x shatter (getting 3 out from phantasms/clones, then 3 from mirror images/evasion, assuming the enemy doesn’t kill any of your clones/phantasms and takes 2 full shatters to the face, which means they’re probably not very good), but have fun burning all your clones/utilities for like 3-4 seconds total of 18 stack might, just to utilize 18 stacks of might for those 3-4 seconds. You probably won’t have much clone generation at this point for the 3rd shatter by the time the 18 stacks ends, making it probable you can’t even utilize the full stacks for that big burst at all. 18 stacks of might increases your damage about 20% on berserker gear, just 5% more damage increase than the thief’s assassin’s signet lol. 9 stacks is more realistic to have on a mesmer, and that will net you a 10% increase in damage on your mind wreck, which really isn’t a big deal.

So much overreaction, but I can see how people are complaining about how non shatter builds were untouched/nerfed yet shatter builds were buffed with this ~10% increase in damage. The nerf to our protection skill was pretty ridiculous.

Really the only thing that needs to happen is more exclusive buffs to other build traits, rather than nerf this trait. People are overreacting on this matter and again, we’ve no idea what else is down on the pipeline.

Yes, this means a buff to an already powerful spec, but other things about Mesmer were adjusted as well, and as noted by others, our defense did take a hit.

There’s a large difference between an entire build dedicated to might-stacking, and a single trait that can maintain 9-18 stacks of might by itself and simply by using the class’s mechanic.

You people are talking about other classes who can stack might to max. Let’s use the elementalist as an example, because I am one. In order to get 25 stacks of might as an elementalist, you’ll need: one adept trait that grants 3 stacks for an utility type, fill your utility slots with that utility type, one grandmaster trait that gives 1 stack each time you use any skill from one and only one attunement (in practise, that means between 3 and 5 stacks during that period of time), specific weapon combinations and, giving the example of scepter/ dagger, a fire field, followed by two spells that are easy to dodge – one of them specially slow and requiring the opponent to be inside that field to activate the combo blast, and two more spells from a different attunement, which are only effective if the opponent is still within that field. Is it still a good might-stacking build? Yes, it is. But half of the build is dedicated to just that.

It’s lovely that Mesmers are getting might-stacking builds, and that they can spread large stacks of might to their allies. It’s overpowered, however, how little you have to give away to acchieve 9-18 stacks compared to other professions: a single trait, and shattering – which is your class mechanic.

Personally I do see it as an encouragement to not go fully glass-cannon anymore pve-wise.
I think the might is in some ways making up for 20% more mindwrack damage… so I dont feel, that I really need that trait to do at least decent damage. So I feel like I am not really forced anymore to put my points into domination.

possante.8310:

as a mesmer i think anyone can see how this MINOR trait is insane OP right now, this even it was a elite trait would be OP but a minor trait? please just nerf this or otherwise soon everyone will play mesmer.

make it only 3 stack might full shatter, 9 stack might is just insane for a MINOR trait….

You do understand that despite the buffs to mesmer that other classes were buffed even more than us right? Nerfs and buffs are relative please use some common sense and put things into perspective before you ask them to further destroy this class.

Well they changed pyro’s puissance as well so that even a staff ele can maintain 7 stacks of might in fire with no boon duration whatsoever. 10 on dd. So in all honesty I don’t see an issue when you’re debating 5 points in a trait line. If we want to pass those might buffs well at least that utility has finally become useful. Debating whether or not it’s overpowered is pointless anyways. They know what they did and if they find it broken they’ll change it again. I’d be happy with 2 stacks a shatter honestly, but it’s not up to me

I think the main problem with this is, why buff shatterbuild?
Sure the buff is nice, i don’t complain about a buff, but for other builds a buff was much more needed.
Now even more people will run a shatterbuild, and everyone will learn how to counter them, turning our once so diverse class into a onetrick pony.

wow amazing you want this person? For the first time we have something to be happy and want a nerf? we stay then this is the most useful build unless the one I give up, I have to build another render and I can use. watch the warrior and the thief stabbed 10k trapper, I threw 40 with heart find everything in a few seconds, if you ask nerf gives a reason according to others.
  not just say hey nerf for mesmer because now be compared to the damage of other classes.
not understand or maybe just looking to let people think the mesmer is the only reason. first patch where they get a nerf to nerf mesmer and ask? or be a custom wow we always get a nerf (or we will have more of a nerf now but are hidden?)
sure we get a nerf within this month or next.
leaving a big headache to find some build perform and compete with the other classes.

much effort being made and sacrifice for our mesmer lvl will be rewarded this month or next with a great nerf =)

The problem with an OP trait/skill is that it just makes everyone want use the same build. Kinda goes against the idea of build diversity.

daemon.1387:

The problem with an OP trait/skill is that it just makes everyone want use the same build. Kinda goes against the idea of build diversity.

Then improve the other builds to match the standard set by this one. Don’t lower a build that is actually functional because the rest are broken and inoperable.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Then improve the other builds to match the standard set by this one. Don’t lower a build that is actually functional because the rest are broken and inoperable.

Buff-always is a bad design paradigm. While nerf-always is just as wrong, it usually works out slightly better. The proper answer is usually in the middle or outside the boundary, however.

Carighan.6758:

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Then improve the other builds to match the standard set by this one. Don’t lower a build that is actually functional because the rest are broken and inoperable.

Buff-always is a bad design paradigm. While nerf-always is just as wrong, it usually works out slightly better. The proper answer is usually in the middle or outside the boundary, however.

While I would normally agree with you, your argument completly ignores the circumstances.

We are in a position in this game where each job only has maybe one or two well functioning build types, and their overall performance in the game are being weighed against one another based off of these high preforming builds. This is critically flawed against the policy Anet initialized as all classes being able to preform an emulation of all roles within their given design styles.

This is inclusive on top of the laundry list of continuous bugs that serve as prevalent reasons for many of these sub-par builds and performances.

Therefore, the adage of ‘buff and fix first, nerf later’ needs to be asserted with righteous and powerful authority here. When players are stuck arguing with each other as to what build they should gear for, because all of them are so effing powerful, then we can start looking to tone specific ones down depending on which ones are more exploitative and not a moment before.

Because right now, we’re in the opposite situation, and that’s going to push more players away, as illustrated in s/tPvP

PearlGore.7419:

Why is this an issue? other classes can get 100% 20 stacks of might. Who cares…

spacelion.9865:

I seriously can’t understand why anyone would want to self nerf this if they are playing mesmer. It is a bit strong but so what? I main a warrior and I can get 25 stacks on my own with a shout, and elite signet (both of which also give me perma-fury) and a greatsword 20pt trait. I don’t even use a sigil of strength on my weapons either.

Eles can stack 10-15 stacks of might in one round of combos. Thief can have 15 stacks of might for 10 seconds using a signet trait. Boon duration runes and/or food ftw. I play all of these. Including a mesmer. Mesmer needs buffs trust me.

This 10x over. Seriously. You folks need to try some other professions. Very easy to do this.

I just had a thief pop an ability (not sure what it is) that gave him a line of boons and then from stealth proceeded to put no less than 24k damage into me in under 3 seconds. I have 1600 toughness. He was able to do this by pushing a button. Not getting into combat, spawning 3 clones, shattering to get 12 stacks of might and then spawning another 3 clones to shatter. No mesmer can do all of that in 3 seconds or prepare it out of combat.

Say thank you for the buff and stop trying to give back any good thing that Arena Net gives this class.

Build diversity is not the focus of this patch. . . that will come next year sometime. For calling this patch a large balance patch it was mostly a minor balance patch (which I actually applaud) with a focus on making sure the most played build is where they want it. Then they can see about fixing Phantasm builds. The major idea here is simple, get to a level that works the things that are close first, then fix the things that you know will take longer to fix later.

Easy fixes > Hard to solve issues.

The thing about other builds is that they rely more on AI working appropriately, which seems to be every video games weakness. And they don’t seem to want Bunker Mesmers relying on passive trait bonuses, those are just perks to having the trait points in those lines. I’m pretty sure they are trying to get Mesmer to rely on active defenses to be good, and stealth, hence the buff to 30 point trait. Notice they also put a protection in the 30 pt trait of Chaos too, effectively coupling with Illusionary Membrane to get the same effect with more work. Stealth is looking like it’s our bunkering mechanism. . . except we can’t hold a point because stealth allows the enemy to cap. Ah well. . . I’ll look into it more later when I’m not so annoyed with Illusionary Membrane being nerfed.

Back on topic, Shattered Strength now feels like a 25 point trait, and is probably about right for it’s devotion to that line while also making shatter based condition builds better too.

All the grief eles get for might stacking and then this happens.

Wittle.5473:

I just had a thief pop an ability (not sure what it is) that gave him a line of boons and then from stealth proceeded to put no less than 24k damage into me in under 3 seconds. I have 1600 toughness. He was able to do this by pushing a button. Not getting into combat, spawning 3 clones, shattering to get 12 stacks of might and then spawning another 3 clones to shatter. No mesmer can do all of that in 3 seconds or prepare it out of combat.

Say thank you for the buff and stop trying to give back any good thing that Arena Net gives this class.

this

Mesmer rightly should have this buff. IMO shatter build wasn’t even that strong before this “buff”

And realistically, you’d only be able to utilize 15 stacks of might. We aren’t able to generate an amount of clones that will take us to 18+ stacks of might AND use it on the opponent.

The OP was generalizing and the fact that other professions can kill rather quickly without the effort that a mesmer has to put in, is a testament to why this isn’t overpowered.

I guess that people that run shatter builds are happy. But in reality should be mad. Now everyone will play shatter. Who wants to play against the same builds over and over again. No reason to change builds. This is not about getting buffs its about making different builds viable. Nerf this now!!!!!!

BTW when people are asking for a nerf in their own class you know arena net messed up.

And yes I run shatter builds too from time to time.

Expansive.3716:

Wittle.5473:

I just had a thief pop an ability (not sure what it is) that gave him a line of boons and then from stealth proceeded to put no less than 24k damage into me in under 3 seconds. I have 1600 toughness. He was able to do this by pushing a button. Not getting into combat, spawning 3 clones, shattering to get 12 stacks of might and then spawning another 3 clones to shatter. No mesmer can do all of that in 3 seconds or prepare it out of combat.

Say thank you for the buff and stop trying to give back any good thing that Arena Net gives this class.

this

Mesmer rightly should have this buff. IMO shatter build wasn’t even that strong before this “buff”

And realistically, you’d only be able to utilize 15 stacks of might. We aren’t able to generate an amount of clones that will take us to 18+ stacks of might AND use it on the opponent.

The OP was generalizing and the fact that other professions can kill rather quickly without the effort that a mesmer has to put in, is a testament to why this isn’t overpowered.

I have never lost to a thief in one on one combat with a build which I will not discuss. Or any melee character for that matter. The problem here is that the community only plays one build and can’t figure out others. Because of that they think that if they die against a certain class with a certain build that class must be OP. Just learn to counter it and use a different build. There should never be a dominant build ever.

Alex Behemoth.4952:

Expansive.3716:

Wittle.5473:

I just had a thief pop an ability (not sure what it is) that gave him a line of boons and then from stealth proceeded to put no less than 24k damage into me in under 3 seconds. I have 1600 toughness. He was able to do this by pushing a button. Not getting into combat, spawning 3 clones, shattering to get 12 stacks of might and then spawning another 3 clones to shatter. No mesmer can do all of that in 3 seconds or prepare it out of combat.

Say thank you for the buff and stop trying to give back any good thing that Arena Net gives this class.

this

Mesmer rightly should have this buff. IMO shatter build wasn’t even that strong before this “buff”

And realistically, you’d only be able to utilize 15 stacks of might. We aren’t able to generate an amount of clones that will take us to 18+ stacks of might AND use it on the opponent.

The OP was generalizing and the fact that other professions can kill rather quickly without the effort that a mesmer has to put in, is a testament to why this isn’t overpowered.

I have never lost to a thief in one on one combat with a build which I will not discuss. Or any melee character for that matter. The problem here is that the community only plays one build and can’t figure out others. Because of that they think that if they die against a certain class with a certain build that class must be OP. Just learn to counter it and use a different build. There should never be a dominant build ever.

Actually, we were talking about whether the might stacking on Shattered Strength was overpowered. Nowhere did anyone say that expected that they could counter any class in game with a specific build. A comparison was made to remind people that other classes have the ability to stack might to increase their burst, and frankly, do it much easier than a mesmer can.

Also, I run about 4 different mesmer builds myself with different gear and know of others that do the same. Thinking that the entire mesmer community uses the same build is folly. Also, saying you’ve never been beaten 1v1 by a thief or melee class leads me to believe one of two things. A) You’re lying, or B ) You only fight players who are sub 80 and use bad builds.

I don’t think shattered strength is overpowered now I think it’s fine and I’m glad Anet finally showed us some love for once.

Anet please keep these sorts of changes coming.

Yep ppl should never stop experement and try new builds etc out, ist accualy alot of fun. Im working on a shatter condition build atm and try invest some hours on it from time to time.

Also lo stick and stay on one build can make you feel lost when the tide turn. When I made my guide “Shatter Cat” Phantasms builds was dominant in wvwvw with GS setup, think I spent first month after I started post my vids etc to just defend the builds survival potensial as the major population was convinced its to squishy.

Some patches later and the evulutioned “Shatter cat” build is accepted and not seen as the black sheep in wvwvw setups anymore.

Still who knows in 2 month everyone is playing “Bucked of pain” Mantra condition build and shatters is old school What I try say is never just folow the masses, develop and experement, this is how you get better and find new ways that ppl have hard counter.

/Osicat

Ps my oppinions about mightstacks is totaly pve and wvwvw focused, I have no oppinions about the tPvP and sPvP and let other think about that area. But for the Pve and wvwvw scene I do not in any way think the might stacks or vigour buff is to strong, as many said alot ofther classes stack might we just got a tool to keep in line and it also encurage us to build less glascannon. Before we HAD to be glascannonich to remain bursty, now we can rely on burst condition hybrid gameplay and build a little hp and toughnes.

Levetty.1279:

Everybody knows Warriors have this right?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword

I can easily keep 20+ stacks of might up using that.

^ This.

If you think this trait is overpowered, play a GS warrior or Elixir Engineer or S/D Elementalist.

Hi, Could someone explain to me the situation where you run with constant 18+ stacks of might, (or even 9 stacks) with shatter build and have the resources left to benefit from it?

I played a couple rounds of hot join doing my normal shatter rotations and just using my normal play style. I had 9 stacks at times, but no more (and I Frapsed the games to get a good look). That got me a few good hits with my sword auto attack, that’s it. If you do, let’s say, a confusion shatter with your first illusions, and then Mind Wrack + BF with your next batch, is the dps higher/is it viable in any way? And I’d like a comment from a person that actually has been playing sPvP/tPvP after the patch, not some theoretical assumptions.

I like the buff for pve reasons, but is it really affecting pvp? I’m not saying that mesmers needed this buff, but I’d like to get a reality check from pvp perspective.

Sooooo many classes get tons of might stacks and pretty much permanent might.

Question is: does adding this factor to mesmer break it?

IMO- it means our power actually scales in combat now, before we had to shatter hope to god it lands for how easy it is to doge and then be kind of at a loss for it for it.

A situation like what we had before, implied we suffered for extended combat versus a lot of I classes who would have a tug of war with using small hits while dogging each others main burst. We even more suffer against the builds who’s power scales as time went on. And unlike thief’s we cannot just run away.

This ends up adding up to all your shatters building your power more directly giving us an edge we used to lack. And frankly our bust was a fairly easy mechanic to avoid by any decent player. The buff evens the playing field for extended fights instead of it slowly decreasing to another builds growing favour.

If you are getting rolled really fast it’s most likely the vaulnerability actually lasting long enough for someone to shatter you again.

It’s one of those bizarro anet things that are done for zero reasons, after coming out and saying they want more diverse builds and less bursty builds they pretty much are guaranteeing that every mesmer will play a burst shatter build. Especially considering the troubles with izerker.

It’s like the nerf to engineers grenades…… really anet, really? I dont even play an engineer but theres other stuff out there that seems to be a lot more over the top than engineers grenades.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Because right now, we’re in the opposite situation, and that’s going to push more players away, as illustrated in s/tPvP

Ok, so maybe I worded that badly.

Thing is, our current trait-setup is… well.. less than satisfactory.
OTOH, I had multiple suggestions typed out mostly and deleted them again, simply because I cannot come up with a way to achieve a better trait setup via buffing which wouldn’t just make things worse.

We need something else as far as specs go. We need “design”. By that I mean, if I look at my GF’s ranger, if she wants to play with lots of spirits => Nature Magic. If she loves traps =>… that second line, forgot the name.
Each trait line focuses pretty directly on 2-3 subareas of the class, and nearly all traits affecting it are found in that trait line, leaving 40+ points to enhance general power (or a second set of subareas!) with, as there’s also some more generic traits mixed in.

We… don’t have that.
We have Deceptive Evasion, the core supposedly-GM-trait for Clone-specs, at 20Dueling. At the same time we have IP at 30 Illusion, and Shatter-specs sort-of include Clone-specs due to still having to get the clones in the first place.
We more or less have the inverse of what other classes do, come to think of it. We have “interrupt traits”. In Domination it does damage, in Chaos it gives you random buffs/conditions, in Duelling it gives Fury. Yet it’s always the same “when you interrupt”.

This just stinks of all the iterations we went through during testing.

What we need first of all is – I suppose – to scratch ~50% or so of our traits outright, and completely rethink what each traitline – and hence each GM trait – is supposed to change about the classes’ gameplay.
I’d however go one step further and say before all that, consider whether Mantras is a healthy long term system, or whether to rip them out while the game is still young, and include, say, Illusions instead (a far easier to balance concept, since PvE mobs don’t care how frontloaded your Mantras are :P ).

So in our specific case, I don’t even see Nerfing or Buffing on the table much. I see selective but vigorous re-doing and re-implementation, ideally without changing the style and overall game of the class too much (the Mantra-change excluded, ofc).
Our traits need themes and cohesion first of all. I’ll rather take 60 weak traits if they are well-sorted and well-designed than a mess of 60 strong ones.

I have to admit, at first, I thought “WoW this is OP now :o”
Yet, when you take time to think of it …
You have to spend 25 points to get it, which is a lot. Remember that this tree is not the power one nor precision so by spending so many points, you lose points in precision or power trees : it actually works as a kind of compensation.
Furthermore, to stack reliably a lot of might this way, you NEED deceptive evasion. Otherwise, you go with 2 shatters and wait a lot of time, leaving you without clones for this moment, which IS what makes it not OP :
1) If you shatter a lot for might, you don’t have clones to protect you, clones which is usually the biggest problems for other classes in PVP to destroy a mesmer. Now, mesmers can have bigger damage, but other classes aren’t confused anymore and can burst the actual mesmer.

2) You have to spend 25 points in illusion PLUS 20 points in duelling to stack mights, for a total of 45 points.
After that, you don’t have a lot of points remaining, so you cannot chose Grandmaster traits (except in illusion or duelling), and you lose in versatility.
Consequently, it’s well done as it really is a choice of specialisation and not something all mesmers will have.

What is also cool is that it’s also a little buff to condition builds as might stacking is good for them too.

However, the only “problem” is that players will mostly focus on that, losing diversity on the battlefields (pve or pvp). The drawback is that other builds were not buffed too to catch up. For instance, condition builds are still lagging behind because of 25 bleed stacks limit and weak scepter/torch …

Carighan.6758:

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Because right now, we’re in the opposite situation, and that’s going to push more players away, as illustrated in s/tPvP

Ok, so maybe I worded that badly.

Thing is, our current trait-setup is… well.. less than satisfactory.
OTOH, I had multiple suggestions typed out mostly and deleted them again, simply because I cannot come up with a way to achieve a better trait setup via buffing which wouldn’t just make things worse.

We need something else as far as specs go. We need “design”. By that I mean, if I look at my GF’s ranger, if she wants to play with lots of spirits => Nature Magic. If she loves traps =>… that second line, forgot the name.
Each trait line focuses pretty directly on 2-3 subareas of the class, and nearly all traits affecting it are found in that trait line, leaving 40+ points to enhance general power (or a second set of subareas!) with, as there’s also some more generic traits mixed in.

We… don’t have that.
We have Deceptive Evasion, the core supposedly-GM-trait for Clone-specs, at 20Dueling. At the same time we have IP at 30 Illusion, and Shatter-specs sort-of include Clone-specs due to still having to get the clones in the first place.
We more or less have the inverse of what other classes do, come to think of it. We have “interrupt traits”. In Domination it does damage, in Chaos it gives you random buffs/conditions, in Duelling it gives Fury. Yet it’s always the same “when you interrupt”.

This just stinks of all the iterations we went through during testing.

What we need first of all is – I suppose – to scratch ~50% or so of our traits outright, and completely rethink what each traitline – and hence each GM trait – is supposed to change about the classes’ gameplay.
I’d however go one step further and say before all that, consider whether Mantras is a healthy long term system, or whether to rip them out while the game is still young, and include, say, Illusions instead (a far easier to balance concept, since PvE mobs don’t care how frontloaded your Mantras are :P ).

So in our specific case, I don’t even see Nerfing or Buffing on the table much. I see selective but vigorous re-doing and re-implementation, ideally without changing the style and overall game of the class too much (the Mantra-change excluded, ofc).
Our traits need themes and cohesion first of all. I’ll rather take 60 weak traits if they are well-sorted and well-designed than a mess of 60 strong ones.

In a perfect world you are absolutely correct in some aspects.

However around the time after the beta when a statement was made about mesmers being the roughest around the edges, they also more or less implied that a big overhaul is not going to be happening.

A-nets level of commitment to the game as a whole is great, and in some ways more attentive than others. However any changes to us in what you’re proposing will not be a big patch for us, it’ll be 2-3 traits over time while bugging more, and fixing more, rebalancing for the current meta based on our current situation, ect, ect, ect. It’s just going to be a constant struggle unless they decide to go a month and focus on each class.

I really don’t blame people who decide to just take a year long break then come back and see what’s up.

Please don’t nerf it again. Check other classes’ and how they much/easy might they can stack and keep up(with or without sigil of the soldier, the 30% crit chance for might thing). A guardian buddy keeps boasting how he can consistently keep up 20+ stacks of might while giving like 10+ permanently to the group, too. I see warriors also run with 20+ stacks at all times easy, ele’s…whatever i don’t know much about other classes buffing capabilities other than warrior and guardian.

Also please do not change the “Active” effect of signet of inspiration, it is extremely good as it is right now. Don’t say the effect is Bulldoggie before you’ve actually tried it for yourself. I will try to record my next dungeon run to possibly show what good it is at the moment. Tip: It can basically double the amount of group buffs your party has(spread your boons to the party).

Example, 3 warriors use FGJ = ~30s of fury and 9 stacks of might

Use signet of inspiration next to them again, and the rest of your party will have 60s of fury and 18 stacks of might. This is how the signet works. 45s cooldown, wish it was a bit shorter, though, then i’m sure we mesmers could get close to guardian (boon)support.

Actually, how about “good” players of their respective class show what or how many buffs/might stacks they can build and keep up with a video/fraps recording? That’s what i’ll do in the near future.

Please do not nerf shattered strength, we needed something like that for a long time. Make it different/nerfed for !!!->SPVP<-!!!, but please not outside of it. This is one serious pve buff we needed for a long time, along with the buff/heal application change a few patches ago(buffs/heals prioritize player characters now, before, pets/minions/clones would simply eat and steal your heals, even if your party members were right next to you, it was VERY ANNOYING!)

The mantra cast reduction also allows us to heal a lot better(~20% faster), which means shout warrior don’t outclass us fully in that area anymore.

Also, if they moved Inspiration XII’s effect to either below X or into the Illusions(preferably into the 2nd tier VII-X), would increase pve survival by a bunch(~1k self heal every shatter regardless of number of clones used).

I hope this post made sense.

Wittle.5473:

Alex Behemoth.4952:

Expansive.3716:

Wittle.5473:

I just had a thief pop an ability (not sure what it is) that gave him a line of boons and then from stealth proceeded to put no less than 24k damage into me in under 3 seconds. I have 1600 toughness. He was able to do this by pushing a button. Not getting into combat, spawning 3 clones, shattering to get 12 stacks of might and then spawning another 3 clones to shatter. No mesmer can do all of that in 3 seconds or prepare it out of combat.

Say thank you for the buff and stop trying to give back any good thing that Arena Net gives this class.

this

Mesmer rightly should have this buff. IMO shatter build wasn’t even that strong before this “buff”

And realistically, you’d only be able to utilize 15 stacks of might. We aren’t able to generate an amount of clones that will take us to 18+ stacks of might AND use it on the opponent.

The OP was generalizing and the fact that other professions can kill rather quickly without the effort that a mesmer has to put in, is a testament to why this isn’t overpowered.

I have never lost to a thief in one on one combat with a build which I will not discuss. Or any melee character for that matter. The problem here is that the community only plays one build and can’t figure out others. Because of that they think that if they die against a certain class with a certain build that class must be OP. Just learn to counter it and use a different build. There should never be a dominant build ever.

Actually, we were talking about whether the might stacking on Shattered Strength was overpowered. Nowhere did anyone say that expected that they could counter any class in game with a specific build. A comparison was made to remind people that other classes have the ability to stack might to increase their burst, and frankly, do it much easier than a mesmer can.

Also, I run about 4 different mesmer builds myself with different gear and know of others that do the same. Thinking that the entire mesmer community uses the same build is folly. Also, saying you’ve never been beaten 1v1 by a thief or melee class leads me to believe one of two things. A) You’re lying, or B ) You only fight players who are sub 80 and use bad builds.

I’m saying that I have a build that allows DPS heavy players to be killed easily. As long as I’m not caught off guard with about 2 secs to prepare yea I have not been beaten by a thief, warrior, paladin, ranger. I have had trouble with eles and the build would melt to necros. This is in PvP. WvW is not exactly balanced as confusion does twice as much damage. In WvW there is clipping issues that make the thief and mesmer OP.

please nerf stupid semi-perma theif invisibility
please nerf war’s fulltime 20+ might stacks
please…

oh

who am I kidding.

Sonnet.9840:

Hi, Could someone explain to me the situation where you run with constant 18+ stacks of might, (or even 9 stacks) with shatter build and have the resources left to benefit from it?

I played a couple rounds of hot join doing my normal shatter rotations and just using my normal play style. I had 9 stacks at times, but no more (and I Frapsed the games to get a good look). That got me a few good hits with my sword auto attack, that’s it. If you do, let’s say, a confusion shatter with your first illusions, and then Mind Wrack + BF with your next batch, is the dps higher/is it viable in any way? And I’d like a comment from a person that actually has been playing sPvP/tPvP after the patch, not some theoretical assumptions.

I like the buff for pve reasons, but is it really affecting pvp? I’m not saying that mesmers needed this buff, but I’d like to get a reality check from pvp perspective.

this is basically the counter argument. the buff sounds OP at a glance, but it’s not practical to use consistently.

Still, 2 stacks per illusion would probably be more balanced, considering that this trait works for EACH illusion and with FOUR skills. You can create between 1 and 3 illusions, use a shatter, create between 1 to 3 more, use another shatter. This will give you between 6 and 18 stacks with only two shatters. If it had been 4 to 12, it would have been more balanced, because it would have still be a high number, but also a fair number due to the practicality of shattering, and even then I wonder if it wouldn’t be a little bit too cheap.

Someone mentioned Elementalist’s recently buffed trait. That one gives 1 stack of might whenever you use a skill from the fire attunement. Although auto-attacking with it might give you the idea that it’s broken, ele’s auto-attacks are usually weaker than normal by nature, and sticking to 1/4th of your attunements for a long time is a complete suicide. In practise, you’ll usually get 5 stacks of might before switching to other attunement, probably a bit more so if the situation allows for it. And it’s been revealing to be a pretty decent trait at the moment, because if you want to get 10+ stacks with it, you must give away your survival and your short term burst.

This mesmer’s trait gives 3 stacks of might per illusion shattered, so it rewards mesmers for doing what they already must do: use their main mechanic. It does not makes them give away anything. You don’t have to be stuck to specific skills. You don’t have to invest valuable time for a stronger burst later on. You don’t give away anything extra for an easy 6-12-18 stacks of might by simply using two shatters.

this really helps a condition shatter build. All those might stacks don’t help the shatter they boost the confusion damage.

possante.8310:

as a necro i think anyone can see how this MINOR trait is insane OP right now, this even it was a elite trait would be OP but a minor trait? please just nerf this or otherwise soon everyone will play mesmer.

make it only 3 stack might full shatter, 9 stack might is just insane for a MINOR trait….

I’m not even using this “MINOR” trait, altho, mine warrior is able to pop 25 stack of might on demand. Also, if there enough hitting going on, since he’s wearing the rune of the pack, he is able to keep it for the entry fight duration.

Idiots. Shatter is our only real burst. Several of the other professions have multiple specs to get burst and we have one and you want to nerf it. Why do warriors savage leap cross gaps when our blink doesn’t and now elementalist can’t span gaps with their lightning jump. Well given the bugs we have like clones that don’t really look like us (no off-hand weapon, or that star over my head giving me away) and you ask for a nerf. Such stupidity.

Ryuujin.8236:

Osicat.4139:

@Blundby, I think mesmers are so unused to get buffs they just cant handle it. Like ppl win the lottery and cry tears while they have hard handle the situation.
/Osicat

I concur – I was pondering about this earlier and realised it opens whole new playstyles. My Guardian doesn’t need to wear glass cannon gear because I get so many boons to help with damage.

Now mesmer have good access to boons, I can mix more condition damage into my shatter build since it gets buffed by might, that in turn led me to realise that if I went all-out boon duration buffs on my runes and took some ranks in chaos I can become a buff-bot for my team, and still do decent damage all round with shatters, staff and sword.

Such a small change opened up so many possibilities, there’s now multiple ways to spec shatter

BINGO.

combine with signet of inspiration, shatter up as high a stack of might as you can, use signet, pop time warp, MELT WORLD BOSS

I like it in pve. It seems very powerful, but not overpowered.
I now feel more competitive and contributing in pve.
Thanks for improving that!

Yes, thank you.

It’s not overpowered. We’re already weak as hell as it is. Shatter is strong, but it’s still nothing compared to thieves and warriors. Anet stated that Mesmers are supposed to be strong while illusions are out…and more or less helpless when they’re destroyed. Well, you know what?! I guess it’s time for people to also finally learn to kill/disable our illusions and Phantasms instead of looking for that bugged World Completion star and go straight after us!

MysticHLE.7160:

It’s not overpowered. We’re already weak as hell as it is. Shatter is strong, but it’s still nothing compared to thieves and warriors. Anet stated that Mesmers are supposed to be strong while illusions are out…and more or less helpless when they’re destroyed. Well, you know what?! I guess it’s time for people to also finally learn to kill/disable our illusions and Phantasms instead of looking for that bugged World Completion star and go straight after us!

Sorry to break it to you, but if you think mesmers are weak, you’re doing it wrong. Coming from somebody who plays d/d ele (which is quite strong when played correctly), I’ve never had an easier time killing people than on a mesmer.

This trait is horridly OP the way it is now. It would be one thing if mesmers had to setup their burst with something like a triple diversion shatter to gain might and then mind wrack to gain more/burst, but they don’t even have to try anymore. This does not bring interest to the class, and is not fun for anybody but the mesmer to try and counter. Boon removal is not a viable option; the stacks apply too quickly and the burst is over too soon to reliably have that sort of counter on-hand and ready to apply.

And how exactly are we going to nerf it? All this thread is is complaining if it’s op or not, and not how to fix it IF it is op. Do we set it back to what it was before, where it was honestly useless? Or do we bring it down to 2 stacks per clone, or 3 regardless of how many clones?

I agree that this needed a buff, but it might be too much of a buff. I figure Anet is trying to test out buffing shatter to see what it would do to the community.

And if Mesmer needs a buff so terribly, why not buff other builds? The whole reason I found mesmer interesting is because of how versatile you could build a mesmer, from shatter, to phantasm, to stealth and even mantras. Don’t take that away Anet.

you know what? while i’m personally don’t gravitate towards shatter specs, its there and, we’re going to abuse the kitten out of this shatter buff cos its all we have. We’re like the great wall of china on tank tracks. We might not catch you but we’re gonna hit like a mighty kitten hooooo!

plasmacutter.2709:

Ryuujin.8236:

Osicat.4139:

@Blundby, I think mesmers are so unused to get buffs they just cant handle it. Like ppl win the lottery and cry tears while they have hard handle the situation.
/Osicat

I concur – I was pondering about this earlier and realised it opens whole new playstyles. My Guardian doesn’t need to wear glass cannon gear because I get so many boons to help with damage.

Now mesmer have good access to boons, I can mix more condition damage into my shatter build since it gets buffed by might, that in turn led me to realise that if I went all-out boon duration buffs on my runes and took some ranks in chaos I can become a buff-bot for my team, and still do decent damage all round with shatters, staff and sword.

Such a small change opened up so many possibilities, there’s now multiple ways to spec shatter

BINGO.

combine with signet of inspiration, shatter up as high a stack of might as you can, use signet, pop time warp, MELT WORLD BOSS

very interesting idea, will definably be giving that a shot. max out boon duration, chalk up a ton of buffs along with the might super stack and SPREAD TEH LOVE every 36 seconds

because most people who have no other character come to ask mesmer nerf our mesmer thread?
I only see people complaining, the first improved mesmer? maybe I can go to the post of the thief and mourn for your damages irrational?
if you want a nerf porfa get a better idea of ??just criticize and not contribute anything, and not till the last moment of 14 stacks.

I will continue playing with mesmer page for the game, to entertain so I will leave aside the issues of people weeping.
If something Anet plans please use bridging one month studying in depth the class then take a patch to fix or stop according to most. (never will because if you kill them will rush to mourn Anet by nerf)
leakage patches do not solve the underlying problem