Guild Wars 2

Hey… I’m new to Mesmer, so still looking at different builds. So far I’ve tried PU and Shatter. But they’re not exactly what I’m looking for. PU is too easily ignored and Shatter is too squishy for my tastes.

Is there something like a Condi-heavy build, that trades less stealth for more non-ignorable damage?

PU is your best bet. You could try shatter condi but personally I find it weaker than PU.

Here is a variant focused on staff to spread conditions, maintains the high level of toughness while pressuring with conditions . If you feel safe with it, swap torch for iduelist for extra bleeds on crit
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpMtNqxINcrRSpxYycOClllGpCokjUOA-TJRAwAAOFAUeCAM3focZAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7ansISpa2gG2oB3aGh2YM7GVcucKdCHHAA-TlSAABKqbAwHAAAHBAzUeImSsQV/hkLAwkKB54gA0z+DkCAbpRA-w

This build can take on mutilple opponents on pts. key to this build is never shatter. the only shatter you will use is distortion to invuln stomp. keep 3 illusions up to keep the heal sig up too, tdont use to many or to less illusions. Interupt key skills dependent on enemies class, interrupt ressers for free might. you can stand on pt with this build and hold your own. amulet is rabids for pvp. Need any help shoot me a msg or something i love helping with builds n what not

Edit: if you care about winning NEVER go PU in pvp unless you are roaming… in which case you will have no mobility. gl

Mystogan.4157:

Edit: if you care about winning NEVER go PU in pvp unless you are roaming… in which case you will have no mobility. gl

Which ofc is why I’m able to stay top 200 on the leaderboards playing almost exclusively PU.

At any rate OP, the build that would suit you is very similar to PU, with just a couple of minor adjustments.

I’d recommend 2/6/6/0/0, taking scepter/pistol and staff. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7alknpMtFqxRNcrNSpxY6cOKGSFQpHp8TA-TJRHwAw2fIZZABXEAAPBAA

Basically, this would play exactly the same as a standard PU condition build with a couple of exceptions. You’ve got the increased pressure from your duelist crits to apply bleeds actively, as well as having confusion on all illusion deaths, allowing for more pressure.

Thanks, I’ll try them out!

@Pyro, I also checked out the links in your sig. Some very helpful stuff there

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

Thanks, I’ll try them out!

@Pyro, I also checked out the links in your sig. Some very helpful stuff there

Glad to hear you find them helpful. Just don’t try using stuff from the ‘immortal mesmer’ guide. I just keep that link that out of nostalgia for when it was viable. Anet killed it almost a year ago.

OP, you can try Sensotix build – may be some tweaks to make on runes/sigils since the last patch, but it’s still a strong and not complicated condi build:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-egX-8-PTs

Pyroathiest.4168:

Which ofc is why I’m able to stay top 200 on the leaderboards playing almost exclusively PU.

In North America, which to be blunt anyone can see from streams doesn’t mean a lot.

My torment shatter build, let the haters hate! Great for conditions and a little tanky. Pyro is gunna say its weak, do you really want advice from someone still using PU? Try it out!
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpRttpxMNcrNitBZyL0BUPkfsySGghB-T5QHwAJLDI4UAA4JAAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpItdqxRNcrNyrBh6oMmcSyBEgSmgoB-TZxCwAAeAA73fYypAYbZAGHBAA

I’m also playing my own variation of a torment shatter build, there is no denying the power of PU but it just doesn’t suit me, i find with this build that I can apply a strong amount of conditions constantly and pressure the opponent, I do share the problem with my fellow PU mesmers that if an enemy decides to run I don’t really have anything available to chase them down, but with enough torment and the possibility of chill it can be enough to catch them sometimes, most people don’t try to run until its already too late, the smart ones…well if they want to escape they are going to, just count that as a win instead.

The 4 into Domination along with traveler runes gives nice up-time on your conditions, I go for rending shatter since it allows teamies to do more damage and is also an extra condition that has to be cleansed in order for opponents to rid themselves of confusion, bleeding, burning, torment etc. I hope that my other trait choices are understandable, they are suited to how I play though so you could want to change some things. I saw no use in strengthening illusions in any way as they will only be shattered, that is also my philosophy on clone-on-death traits, it is nice to have if clones die before they get the chance to shatter, it is down to personal preference really, but when you can manage to apply 10+ stacks of confusion, which is delightfully cruel all on its own, along with bleeding, burning, vulnerability and torment it is certainly rewarding (obviously you would have to ensure they cannot cleanse :P) and the need for clone on death traits become less of a requirement and more of a choice.

Let us know what you try out and have the most fun with

The trouble with torment shatter is that it just doesn’t give you something worth shattering. Your clones are better spent proccing on death traits than the torment shatter. You’ll get more stacks of damaging conditions, you don’t have to waste 30 points into illusions, and clone death traits can’t be blocked and dodged like shatters can.

Show me any torment shatter build, and I’ll show you a build that does it better with clone death.

Torment shatter is very fun to play though. I wish it were viable, but the fact is that it is not, any build using that trait is inherently weak.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Torment shatter is very fun to play though. I wish it were viable, but my opinion is that it is not, any build using that trait is inherently weak.

Please say this more (well, i did correct it for you a little bit, but still, say it all you like) the more people that underestimate this trait the better

Selvyn.1043:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Torment shatter is very fun to play though. I wish it were viable, but my opinion is that it is not, any build using that trait is inherently weak.

Please say this more (well, i did correct it for you a little bit, but still, say it all you like) the more people that underestimate this trait the better

Underestimate? I won’t underestimate it, but when I see someone using it, I know there are a lot of strong counters. I’ll know to dodge the shatters. I’ll know to proc a block on the shatters. I might even just ignore the fact that you shatter at all and let my pDisenchanter remove the wimpy condition load it applies from me. There’s so many easy ways to counter it.

Pyroathiest.4168:

The trouble with torment shatter is that it just doesn’t give you something worth shattering. Your clones are better spent proccing on death traits than the torment shatter. You’ll get more stacks of damaging conditions, you don’t have to waste 30 points into illusions, and clone death traits can’t be blocked and dodged like shatters can.

Show me any torment shatter build, and I’ll show you a build that does it better with clone death.

Torment shatter is very fun to play though. I wish it were viable, but the fact is that it is not, any build using that trait is inherently weak.

See told ya it wouldn’t take long. :P One Love Pyro!

Pyroathiest.4168:

Underestimate? I won’t underestimate it, but when I see someone using it, I know there are a lot of strong counters. I’ll know to dodge the shatters. I’ll know to proc a block on the shatters. I might even just ignore the fact that you shatter at all and let my pDisenchanter remove the wimpy condition load it applies from me. There’s so many easy ways to counter it.

When you say things like that, it leads to people underestimating the trait, I didn’t necessarily mean you personally would be underestimating it, so I apologise for that

Anything can be countered, and the methods you state can be effective…

However,

Torment is not the only condition that is going to be applied, used in tandem with other tools the Mesmer has access to you would be loaded with more than torment. Yes pDisenchanter\other cleanses will help, but it is not difficult to reapply the conditions or adjust gameplay.

And in the meantime, all I have to do is keep an eye on your clones to make sure I am not near them when they die. Oh, yeah, clone on death gameplay is full of strong counters too, lets not forget that

Selvyn.1043:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Underestimate? I won’t underestimate it, but when I see someone using it, I know there are a lot of strong counters. I’ll know to dodge the shatters. I’ll know to proc a block on the shatters. I might even just ignore the fact that you shatter at all and let my pDisenchanter remove the wimpy condition load it applies from me. There’s so many easy ways to counter it.

When you say things like that, it leads to people underestimating the trait, I didn’t necessarily mean you personally would be underestimating it, so I apologise for that

Anything can be countered, and the methods you state can be effective…

However,

Torment is not the only condition that is going to be applied, used in tandem with other tools the Mesmer has access to you would be loaded with more than torment. Yes pDisenchanter\other cleanses will help, but it is not difficult to reapply the conditions or adjust gameplay.

And in the meantime, all I have to do is keep an eye on your clones to make sure I am not near them when they die. Oh, yeah, clone on death gameplay is full of strong counters too, lets not forget that

Sure, you can try to stay away from the clones and whatnot. That’s a bit of a counter as well. However, if get near them, you can’t dodge or block the explosion. Ultimately, both of the builds have counters, so you look at how those counters work along with the rest of the build. It’s easier to avoid shatters than it is clone deaths, especially since you have no sword (no immob).

On top of that, even assuming that the counters for both builds work about the same, a clone death (PU) build is significantly more resilient, able to handle outnumbered fights better, and overall a stronger asset to any team.

I’ve used the exact build you’ve got there. I’ve used a variant of it with sword/torch and scepter/pistol to be more offensive in landing my shatters. I’ve spent a very large amount of time trying to get this trait to work, but it’s just worse than the alternatives, so I don’t use it anymore.

Some day when Anet buffs Maim so that a torment shatter actually has oomph, it’ll be worth using, and I’ll gladly use it. That’s not the case right now.

Hey, thanks guys. I’ll be trying these build for weeks to come Glad to see, that there a few options.

I get that clone deaths are probably easier to land, personally I have always been more akin to shattering, so I have found ways of making my shatters land. There is no reason to say you cant use both together like in Nazer’s variation of the build, I have tried it but prefer investing points in domination over chaos.

You don’t have the control over clone death that you do with shattering, you can force clone death to happen by summoning more illusions but this is very similar to shattering…so why not just shatter? There’s also the possibility of the clones not being in the right place when they die, at least with shatters they will make their way to the target, its just up to you to make sure they get there :P

Clone death PU is more resilient of course, the combination of boons and stealth is sublime there is no denying it, but I doubt you will be killing anyone in an outnumbered fight unless they are actually killing your clones, you simply play the role of a bull fighter and can be largely ignored.

Shatter is significantly more forceful, no where near the same survivability of course, but more selective use of stealth makes up for it, you will pressure the opponents much more by actively applying conditions rather than passively applying them via clone death.

This is of course just my opinion, for me, condi-shatter is always going to be better then clone death PU. For you, evidently it is not :O

Selvyn.1043:

This is of course just my opinion, for me, condi-shatter is always going to be better then clone death PU. For you, evidently it is not :O

Well, there’s that question of ‘better’.

In a team fight, I’d rather have a clone-death PU build. They won’t die, and the aoe weakness/cripple is stronger than a bit of torment and vulnerability. A Maim build has a distinct chance of dying, due to the significantly lower defense.

For a point assaulter, I’d rather have a clone-death PU build. A Maim build won’t kill any good player significantly faster than a standard PU condition build, particularly since to hold a point the enemy is forced to eat all of the clone explosions. On top of that, a PU build can easily survive in a 2v1 situation if the defender calls for help, where a Maim build will either have to run or die.

So that’s pretty much it for tPvP. There’s no role or situation where I’d rather have a Maim build than a PU condie build on my team.

In WvW zerging, both builds suck.

In WvW roaming, I’d rather be on a PU condie build. WvW is notorious for producing outnumbered fights at the blink of an eye, and you need to be able to handle that capably without dying. Maim builds can’t do that, they sacrifice too much for the torment shatter.

So where and how exactly is a Maim build better?

Pyroathiest.4168:

Selvyn.1043:

This is of course just my opinion, for me, condi-shatter is always going to be better then clone death PU. For you, evidently it is not :O

Well, there’s that question of ‘better’.

In a team fight, I’d rather have a clone-death PU build. They won’t die, and the aoe weakness/cripple is stronger than a bit of torment and vulnerability. A Maim build has a distinct chance of dying, due to the significantly lower defense.

For a point assaulter, I’d rather have a clone-death PU build. A Maim build won’t kill any good player significantly faster than a standard PU condition build, particularly since to hold a point the enemy is forced to eat all of the clone explosions. On top of that, a PU build can easily survive in a 2v1 situation if the defender calls for help, where a Maim build will either have to run or die.

So that’s pretty much it for tPvP. There’s no role or situation where I’d rather have a Maim build than a PU condie build on my team.

In WvW zerging, both builds suck.

In WvW roaming, I’d rather be on a PU condie build. WvW is notorious for producing outnumbered fights at the blink of an eye, and you need to be able to handle that capably without dying. Maim builds can’t do that, they sacrifice too much for the torment shatter.

So where and how exactly is a Maim build better?

I don’t believe I asked a question of what was better, I said what was better for me.

You seem to continually fail to mention/forget the other benefits of shattering. You will always apply confusion with every shatter due to Illusionary Retribution (I don’t think I need to say how good this makes Cry of Frustration), as well as Torment, you also gain might from every shatter. If you invest in Domination you also gain access to some serious vulnerability stacking, which you can use to take targets down quickly. Debilitating Dissipation randomly applies weakness, bleeding or vulnerability, and is therefore somewhat unreliable if you are hoping for one particular condition, weakness in your case. I would not class 3 stacks of Torment & Confusion weak, it is punishment for using skills and moving, come on.

As for point assaulting, yes, the enemy is forced to take all damage, a Maim build would deliver that damage faster, and delivers more threatening conditions with high stacks of Torment/Confusion/Vulnerability (how is Weakness/Cripple going to help you here?). And yes, a PU build could survive a 2v1 if a defender called for help, but again you would not be able to take either person out if they collectively had half a brain, you’d spend half the time in stealth which does nothing to help you decap and the opponents can ignore you. With a Maim build, you have more than enough resources to still take on 2 people, there is also more possibility of being able to take someone out, a trade off for being less resilient.

You can now tell me that you also think confusion is a waste of time, but isolating each condition when in actuality they are always applied together in this build makes them potent, whichever way you look at it. They can be cleansed yes, but so can anything your build throws out. Reapplication is easy for both builds.

I don’t normally partake in wvw so I won’t comment too much, but yes I can totally see how both builds would be a waste of time in a zerg. For roaming, it falls down to preference, any Mesmer can deal with a sudden outnumbered fight due to the numerous tools you have to escape and regroup if things develop into something you cant handle, this isn’t just exclusive to a particular build.

You state that you are “sacrificing” trait points to get MTD, in a shatter build you will almost always want to go 6 into illusions line so it is hardily a sacrifice.

You are only confirming what I said, that in your opinion you would rather play Clone Death PU or have someone with you playing that build than a Maim-Shatterer.