Guild Wars 2

hi ppl

i really try to understand why ppl prefer the sword over the scepter in condishatter build insp line (not dueling)

i see ppl post their games with it and the condi pressure in average is very low when they swap to sword
i can see it mainly used for #2 skill evades. also the immoblize is hardly use in average and mainly when moa.
also sword dmg is very low (although the attack speed is bit higher)
when i duel mesmer my pressure was much more higher as if i use scpeter #3 they dodge it but than my shatter will hit. while i still have dodges as they have nothing to pressure me beside shatters.

i can see why use it in dueling as you need more defense utility with evades and swap clone if you use it right (not many ppl utilize it as top players do)

i use scepter mainly as the condi pressure is higher so even when my shatters on cd i still have confusion and torment from scepter. also the dmg is much higher (not from AA)
attakc #2 block is great against melee as even 5 torment pressure thief, ranger, engi, ele on point)
attack #3 if you know how to use it. its easy 6 confusion and 2.5k direct dmg (in average it almost like mistrust without aoe. as in avergae its 4 stacks every 6 sec)

your thoughts

iLeap provides a good port to chase enemies who are trying to kite. Also the mobility tricks you can play with it are still fun despite the old swap nerf. So many placed in pvp maps to exploit this and catch people unawares before unloading an F5 Mirror Images chain shatter in their face.

Blurred Frenzy is still second to Distortion as a number one survival tool. It needs a serious damage buff though, because that sucks.

But I also play with Torch for the stealth and (pathetic, need buffing) burns, and rely on big condi bursts using mirror images for damage. I agree the sustained condi pressure is awful without Scepter.

Yeah I tried Sword for a few rounds and quickly returned to Scepter. In order to keep that Condie pressure coming between shatter vs. professions that can cleans a lot. In 1v1 this is what allows me to put some hurt on Eles, Revs, and Scrappers. The damage output in especially 1v1 drops substantially with Sword.

Also the Illusions GM major becomes a bit iffy with Sword. You don’t have enough Blind to really make Ineptitude perform well, and MoF is just plain weak. The only decent part of MoF is the Cripple on F2 adding a cover condition, and the fact that making F3 AoE also makes the Confusion & Torment hit AoE. The long CD unfortunately makes this a very minor boon.

You could go sword/shield scepter/torch. I dislike staff but that’s me.

Yeah on that note because I take sword I also take MoF mainly for aoe F3.

Sword also makes it easier to survive when outnumbered (1v2+ or small teamfight) and the aoe cleave plus aoe F3 is nice for hitting more enemies (and easy interrupts of resses and stomps). Scepter is totally superior in 1v1 though, but then has weaknesses if you’re fighting a necro say and a thief decides to try and gank you…

Ineptitude is pretty mediocre right now given the chaos armour nerf and if not taking Blinding Dissipation (tbh I believe Ineptitude should be moved to the Duelling line because it fits thematically better there).

I can think a lot of reasons:
- Scepter has projectiles, same as staff. Engis, DH, revs and mesmers have access to reflection skills. Having both weapons being projectile based can hurt you.
- Sword AA cleaves while scepter doesn’t. In PvP cleaving is quite important, even if damage is garbage.
- Scepter block only blocks 1 attack, while BF allows you to evade all attacks during 2s.
- If you’re inside the point, Confusing Images can stop activating if the enemy goes behind you, putting you and the skill in CD.
- iLeap is mostly used for the teleport, not the immobilize. With the scepter you lose this key part (think about going up in mid of Nifhel, or getting access to the different levels of mid in Foefire).

Basically, even if scepter gives you more condi pressure, you lose a lot of active defense and mobility that can be more advantageous in crucial moments of the matchup.

Why I prefer sword:
1. Vastly superior survivability. Against necro, you want to negate their marks as much as possible. Sword2 is the best way to accomplish that so you can save F4 for later.

2. Easier to lock down a target. Especially combined with moa, you can actually chase down a low target and possibly kill.

3. Autoattack already covered by staff. I would say scepter is not as good as a filler between burst compared to staff.

4. Scepter has high damage but extremely clunky to use. Scepter 2, a lot of times, require you tank some damage. Scepter 3 has a long channeling time which can leave you vulnerable during the time.

I would say: condi mesmer is a weak build only viable thanks to portal and moa. The condi pressure does not matter as much as your staying alive to use your portal and moa.

Am I too negative?

Exciton.8942:

Why I prefer sword:
1. Vastly superior survivability. Against necro, you want to negate their marks as much as possible. Sword2 is the best way to accomplish that so you can save F4 for later.

2. Easier to lock down a target. Especially combined with moa, you can actually chase down a low target and possibly kill.

3. Autoattack already covered by staff. I would say scepter is not as good as a filler between burst compared to staff.

4. Scepter has high damage but extremely clunky to use. Scepter 2, a lot of times, require you tank some damage. Scepter 3 has a long channeling time which can leave you vulnerable during the time.

i get that sword is more defense weapon. but with insp line (not dueling line) you have much defense tool.
with scepter i dont need to chase moa ad scepter 3 does nice 2.5k dmg and confusion stacks. also most moa try to attack inbetween so block for 5 torment and clone for shatter is huge buff.

i watch frostball twich and his dmg in 1v1 and group fight is very low in average 2 torment and 4 confusion. yes sometimes he manage to burst higher with 10 confusion and 10 torment. also most moa run away from him and immobilize is clancky with sword.

so basicaly more defense versus necro and engi…. so more 1v1 and less team fight dmg

Silverkey.2078:

I would say: condi mesmer is a weak build only viable thanks to portal and moa. The condi pressure does not matter as much as your staying alive to use your portal and moa.

Am I too negative?

you not negative and moa is strong (get rdy for nerf) and portal only in the right hands.
mesmer is great in 1v1 but this is pvp

i just want to compare sword versus scepter with insp line as you already got defense ability so why cover with more defense over offense and you condi is mainly with shatter and not weapon

messiah.1908:

Exciton.8942:

Why I prefer sword:
1. Vastly superior survivability. Against necro, you want to negate their marks as much as possible. Sword2 is the best way to accomplish that so you can save F4 for later.

2. Easier to lock down a target. Especially combined with moa, you can actually chase down a low target and possibly kill.

3. Autoattack already covered by staff. I would say scepter is not as good as a filler between burst compared to staff.

4. Scepter has high damage but extremely clunky to use. Scepter 2, a lot of times, require you tank some damage. Scepter 3 has a long channeling time which can leave you vulnerable during the time.

i get that sword is more defense weapon. but with insp line (not dueling line) you have much defense tool.
with scepter i dont need to chase moa ad scepter 3 does nice 2.5k dmg and confusion stacks. also most moa try to attack inbetween so block for 5 torment and clone for shatter is huge buff.

i watch frostball twich and his dmg in 1v1 and group fight is very low in average 2 torment and 4 confusion. yes sometimes he manage to burst higher with 10 confusion and 10 torment. also most moa run away from him and immobilize is clancky with sword.

so basicaly more defense versus necro and engi…. so more 1v1 and less team fight dmg

I don’t know but I think if ppl don’t try to run away from condie mesmer when moa’ed, they are doing it wrong.

There is no chasing potential from condie mes outside of one blink. I don’t get how they want to attack into scepter 2 when moa’ed. They should also dodge scepter3 or even moa 5 so they evade and flee at the same time.

Exciton.8942:

messiah.1908:

Exciton.8942:

Why I prefer sword:
1. Vastly superior survivability. Against necro, you want to negate their marks as much as possible. Sword2 is the best way to accomplish that so you can save F4 for later.

2. Easier to lock down a target. Especially combined with moa, you can actually chase down a low target and possibly kill.

3. Autoattack already covered by staff. I would say scepter is not as good as a filler between burst compared to staff.

4. Scepter has high damage but extremely clunky to use. Scepter 2, a lot of times, require you tank some damage. Scepter 3 has a long channeling time which can leave you vulnerable during the time.

i get that sword is more defense weapon. but with insp line (not dueling line) you have much defense tool.
with scepter i dont need to chase moa ad scepter 3 does nice 2.5k dmg and confusion stacks. also most moa try to attack inbetween so block for 5 torment and clone for shatter is huge buff.

i watch frostball twich and his dmg in 1v1 and group fight is very low in average 2 torment and 4 confusion. yes sometimes he manage to burst higher with 10 confusion and 10 torment. also most moa run away from him and immobilize is clancky with sword.

so basicaly more defense versus necro and engi…. so more 1v1 and less team fight dmg

I don’t know but I think if ppl don’t try to run away from condie mesmer when moa’ed, they are doing it wrong.

There is no chasing potential from condie mes outside of one blink. I don’t get how they want to attack into scepter 2 when moa’ed. They should also dodge scepter3 or even moa 5 so they evade and flee at the same time.

usually when i moa ppl press 5 and 2 to flee away. if they dont and stay on point they die. after using 5 and 2 they have only dodge so i shatter and they dodge and than i use scepter 3 to finish and shatter again . easy unless they find LOS spot .
also usually they dont like to loss the point so they stay on it and die (beside engi)

This is an interesting thread, I hope we can keep it going.

I found a chrono build with scepter/sword and sword/shield that I’ve been trying out, and since doing it I really fell in love with the scepter torment damage and extra clones. And it was surprisingly survivable might I add.

One thing I found is that with that build you were really forced to play in melee. While you should be doing that anyway to get the most out of your shatters it puts you in instant downed state against players who know how to kite at the right time or are playing DH xD. Here is the thing, because the scepter chain only continues after the first hit actually makes contact the moment you have to extend your range, you lose a lot of pressure that you need to stay offensive.

The biggest problem I see with dropping sword is losing the cleave. Sword 2 is very strong, but I feel like the added pressure does actually make up for it.

sword is hardly used for anything other than spamming blurred frenzy invul frames so if you want something with more risk and reward then go for scepter

For at least 2 years I have been playing sc/t and sw/x (before chrono x = pistol, after hot X = shield). In my opinion sword and scepter work well together and the dmg on a hybrid setting is nice. I mostly play pvp and solo-roaming in wvw. I like the “in your face” playstyle.

I really think one reason for current condie mesmer to make the meta is that we can do enough damage w/o scepter.

Scepter does damage but that is about it. Sword is more versatile to make plays in most situations.

Replacing staff with scepter/x is really not that good of an idea in my opinion. Staff auto does just as much dmg as scepter while having way more kiting potential. Staff phantasm is decent and chaos storm is one of the best support field. We don’t have an offhand offering as much except for shield.

Lexander.4579:

sword is hardly used for anything other than spamming blurred frenzy invul frames so if you want something with more risk and reward then go for scepter

This is wrong. Sword does boon removal on auto-attack. iLeap is very important for juking and immob.

It’s all risk, little reward going to scepter.

I’ve been playing scepter as my mainhand only (with sword and shield offhands) since season 1. I’ve made it to ruby both seasons without much trouble. Season 2 I’m just playing slowly (typically 1 game per day).

With malicious sorcery, the scepter block is available typically every 5 to 6 seconds (with a little alacrity). It’s clearly not the same defense as sword 2, but it’s nice and the 5 stacks of torment can really hurt an opponent. When you mix in sword block and shield blocks, you get a lot of total defense and they also support your offense.

It’s definitely up close fighting most of the time, but it feels survivable enough for the level I play.

Main damage comes from shatters, and survivality from weapons. While scepter gives you more condi dmg, the survivality is crap when compared to sword, and so you will likely die a lot more. Also, sword 3 can be used as XYZ gap closer, which is amazing.