Guild Wars 2

What are some of the tactics you guys use for small zergvzerg fights? I play 20/20/0/0/30
shatter in wvw and my normal rotation is chaos storm on enemies>roll roll inside for some clones> f1 f3 f2 > phase retreat out, swap to sword/pistol and do a duelist, leap, frenzy, then there’s this period of time when I wander around because all my shatters are on cd and I’m feeling useless :/ Not sure if I’m missing something and wish to hear from experienced wvw mesmers. Thanks!

nay, If u want to play a shatter mes probably you can never have a rotation, since its wvw, I don’t really know what kind of size you are talking about, shatter is mostly effective when fight under 4 people, anything above that will causes our effectiveness just drop significantly.
the key to play any shatter mesmer is to capture the moment where you can secure a shatter where all 4 damage happens simultaneously, the reason you feel like you are useless is probably due to the fact you wasted you F1 and not dealing enough damage to maintain enough pressure.
F1 CD in trading for large spiky damage is the core assumption of shatter Mesmer, if you fail to meet this assumption, all the subsequent play with F2 and F3 is pretty impossible, or just like what you described, even after you use them , you still fail to deal enough damage and thus put you self in a situation where all shatter on cool down and render yourself useless.
i have one small suggestion for shatter F1, Roll for clone will only make you attack pattern predictable and cause you to lose defense. Try put mirror image in your slot skill and make sure you always shatter when all you clone and you self are within 240 radius of you enemy for quality F1 shatter. 240 radius is when you use null field and put youself in the center of the circle.

I see what you mean. So basically play like a phantasm mesmer but take constant note of positioning to setup a unexpected shatterburst? If anything above 4 players cause effectiveness to drop, what are the builds that are more effective in these situations?

Yea, the point of a shatter build is to do a lot of damage very quickly, with the hope of bringing your opponent down before they can react. In WvW zergs, things are generally too chaotic to use a shatter build effectively, but if you want to try it, I would suggest trying to single out an enemy around the edges and focus on bringing them down.

My favorite rotation for shatter mesmer (as seen in Osicat’s video) is to generate 3 clones at a distance, F2, and while the existing clones are running in for the shatter, use mirror images to generate 2 more clones, use Sword 3, swap (causing immobilize), then use blurred frenzy (Sword 2) and do an F1 shatter while you’re performing the blurred frenzy. If all goes well, you’ll have 7 shatters happening simultaneously and a blurred frenzy to top it off. It’s tricky to pull off perfectly, but if you manage it you can do a massive amount of damage and hopefully enough to down the opponent, because you’ll be pretty much useless while your clones and shatters recharge.

The Chillruption build was suggested to me as a zerg-busting build. I haven’t had a chance to try it out yet, but it seems fun. Personally I’m running a variant of Chaos’ Shatterlock build using a GS and Imbued Diversions to try to drop dazes and stuns into the middle of a zerg. Chillruption probably does a better job at disrupting the zerg, but I like running Shatterlock because I can switch between WvW and PvE easily.

Also consider looking into glamour builds for zerg fights.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-ChillRuption

Took a look at chillruption. My initial impressions is that it relies on certain skills with pretty long cd, chaos storm, focus pull, gs 5 for aoe immobilization and chill. The major issue I have with that is it feels like I’m trying to take on a role the eles and necros can fill better. Are glamours still commonly used in wvw? I saw alot of “glamour is dead” posts after the confusion nerf.

In my experience, Shatter builds are tricky to play in zergy fights, but not impossible. Clones die, so your impact is much lower than when roaming. Probably true of many classes though.

I do much better combining shatter with something else. Interruption has been suggested, but I find our interruption cooldowns too long and the skills themselves are too unreliable to be an asset to my team.

Picking up some glamour/reflection traits is another way to go, though I’m not a huge glamour-for-confusion ally these days with the long cooldowns and low damage. Null field and feedback are both pretty decent- veil is always handy.

Personally I’ve been running a standard 20/20/0/0/30 build these days and enjoying it more than I thought I would. Boon-strip on shatter is a must-have for me, everything else is standard. I run with GS/Staff so I can stay mobile and ranged.

The biggest tip I can give is to pick your targets. A shatter build often plays more like a thief than an elementalist and you rarely see thieves diving into the zerg with the heavies. Pick off the back line, focus on stragglers, and occasionally toss any big AoE’s like null field, zerker, feedback, and chaos storm into the clash point for bags.

Second, don’t mistake “bags” or “numbers” for contribution. You’ll do more for your team bursting down a lone zerker-geared elementalist or necro than you will with some crappy knockback that interrupts the 1 non-stabilitied engineer for half a second.

Your fastest burst will most likely be GS #2 → (Dodge) → F1 or scepter/sword block → F1 since both are near instant and way less telegraphed than Sword #3 → #3 → #2 → F1.

Don’t know how good that works in zergs though, i usually avoid those.

ChilRuption has the added benefit of Debilitating Dissipation (Chaos V).
In zerg you have a good chance to hit multiple opponents with each clone death.

RG WILL BE BACK, SOON WE WILL RISE FROM THE DEPTHS AND BE DESTROYING MONSTER BLOBS!

Okay enough roleplay, I’ll be streaming soon with RG kittenter mesmer. Might wanna take a look if you need some help and such.
(since my description is bugged still… ty anet.. I’ll just post the link in here: http://nl.twitch.tv/doiidrg/profile )

Little offtopic:
Blackdevil, will you return for the second league then??
Yeeahhh, nice to have you in the battleground rolling it xd

Back to the topic:
Shatter builds in zergs have their seat, but it’s quite difficult to take all the juice of shatters against big zergs.

I find shatters suit better as added things to your zerg build than being the base of it. Shatters really potential is the combination of IP+3 illusions. But in WvW, is quite hard to have them all up, so the power of shatters is somehow lost.

Also, even with 30 points in illusions, only Mind Wrack has an acceptable CD for what it brings in zergs. CoF and Diversion are very weak there and Distortion is used to save those horror-situation that happend once per fight.

I personally don’t trait on shatters, but I use the rotation: Dodge+F1+Dodge+F2, crossing 2 times the zerg. You can see how it works here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZXg5X-Z9YAU#t=615

Hm can’t tell yet, but I guess we might be some time.

Ansau.7326:

Back to the topic:
Shatter builds in zergs have their seat, but it’s quite difficult to take all the juice of shatters against big zergs.

I find shatters suit better as added things to your zerg build than being the base of it. Shatters really potential is the combination of IP+3 illusions. But in WvW, is quite hard to have them all up, so the power of shatters is somehow lost.

This is my experience too. Its not bad to shatter in the zerg, but it sort of assumes a single target (ie a focused group) where you can quickly get your clones up before smacking into it, followed by the shatter. But most of all, the shatter spec has no survival traits at all (ie the toughness/vitality tree). I’m sure that’s decent in well disciplined groups with extremely focused support, but it doesnt work well in your average zerg. I’ve ran around with a 20/20/0/0/30 spec before but I find myself far more effective with something like 0/30/20/20/0. So much easier to survive with menders and restorative mantra. Or you can of course choose traited focus.

Of course, part of moving in an organized group is giving up survivability for the good of the group… but a zerg is a little different

@Cassiel.. check my thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-WvW-Blurred-Mes-War-Mes/first#post3440598 rather than builds on thread there re some tips that can help u.. as example Pug zerging and guild zerging is different.. or where has staff has cons pros than gs..
as a shatter mesmer u better make a partying with some stability share guardian, worker war, ll be required via lacking cleanse and stability..

@Doiid, its nice to hear that.. gl hf..