Guild Wars 2

has the single activation without Harmonious Mantras been confirmed as intended or is there still hope that it’ll revert to both casts/all three casts

MP worked on all three casts before, as far as I know, so it really should work that way now. But it hasn’t been specifically confirmed as a bug by ANet, no.

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Because it’s significantly stronger for MoR than for any other Mesmer heal, which is already a lot stronger HPS-wise thanks to the Mantra CD update.

Embolism.8106:

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Because it’s significantly stronger for MoR than for any other Mesmer heal, which is already a lot stronger HPS-wise thanks to the Mantra CD update.

Yeah, and it comes with the drawback of having to recharge the mantra every single time, opening you to interruption/CC.

There’s also the little drawback of doing 0 DPS or utility while casting for 2.5 seconds.

They all have their uses. You take Ether Feast for burst healing, MoR for highest HPS but modest and lesser burst healing. Phantasm specs take signet of the ether and it has a very large burst heal+ offensive perk at the cost of a longer cooldown (but with domination you get 1 sec of distortion out of it, which no other heal gets).

Before the update everybody would just use ether feast. Now people have options.

also using Feast/Resolve frees up using inspiration trait line for literally just the cleanse to open another utility slot up

since it’s mostly what people do
Recovery/Inspiration or Feast/Resolve

or…. run without any condition cleanse which i have NO idea how people can live with
so, yes, i agree with above

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Because it’s significantly stronger for MoR than for any other Mesmer heal, which is already a lot stronger HPS-wise thanks to the Mantra CD update.

Yeah, and it comes with the drawback of having to recharge the mantra every single time, opening you to interruption/CC.

There’s also the little drawback of doing 0 DPS or utility while casting for 2.5 seconds.

They all have their uses. You take Ether Feast for burst healing, MoR for highest HPS but modest but lesser burst healing. Phantasm specs take signet of the ether and it has a very large burst heal+ offensive perk at the cost of a longer cooldown (but with domination you get 1 sec of distortion out of it, which no other heal gets).

Before the update everybody would just use ether feast. Now people have options.

I’ll just say that with Mender’s Purity and Restorative Illusions, enemy condition builds can barely touch me. MoR is already comparable to other heals, it doesn’t need Mender’s Purity to be competitive: you seem to be implying that nerfing Mender’s Purity would make MoR “not an option”.

@Alpha: Inspiration is a lot more than “just the cleanse”. It’s also great healing and even more cleansing in Restorative Mantras and Illusions, and Mental Defense is a solid survivability boost. There’s also Inspiring Distortion, which IMO has the potential to be potent group support.

Basically inpiration line aka menders purity is the only reason that make ppl use heal mantra even with all the cons it have. And if you are using heal mantra, normally paired with other mantra, it makes a build with 2+ mantras and therefore worth spec into HM, and justifying inspiration line with resto mantras , other “toys”, etc, creating build diversity. Removing that option will completly kill inspiration line viability. No other trait alone justify spec into inspiration for pvp other than menders purity that creates a chain of synergys. Break one piece, break all chain.

Embolism.8106:

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Because it’s significantly stronger for MoR than for any other Mesmer heal, which is already a lot stronger HPS-wise thanks to the Mantra CD update.

Yeah, and it comes with the drawback of having to recharge the mantra every single time, opening you to interruption/CC.

There’s also the little drawback of doing 0 DPS or utility while casting for 2.5 seconds.

They all have their uses. You take Ether Feast for burst healing, MoR for highest HPS but modest but lesser burst healing. Phantasm specs take signet of the ether and it has a very large burst heal+ offensive perk at the cost of a longer cooldown (but with domination you get 1 sec of distortion out of it, which no other heal gets).

Before the update everybody would just use ether feast. Now people have options.

I’ll just say that with Mender’s Purity and Restorative Illusions, enemy condition builds can barely touch me. MoR is already comparable to other heals, it doesn’t need Mender’s Purity to be competitive: you seem to be implying that nerfing Mender’s Purity would make MoR “not an option”.

@Alpha: Inspiration is a lot more than “just the cleanse”. It’s also great healing and even more cleansing in Restorative Mantras and Illusions, and Mental Defense is a solid survivability boost. There’s also Inspiring Distortion, which IMO has the potential to be potent group support.

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. In PvE, it is one of the main reasons I’ll take it over Signet of the Ether.

And you want to nerf this heal for your stupid dueling sessions.

I don’t buy for one second that in any teamfight with engineers or eles around you’re untouchable considering the amount of condition output far exceeds 9 condi clears you’re getting from the mantra use.

Ele is virtually removing conditions everytime he applies regen, everytime he dodges in water attunement, then with water dagger 5 or earth focus 4, and then some more with cleansing fire.

Or conversely an ele can be completely immune to condi specs by taking diamond skin.

Warrior with cleansing ire and berk stance isn’t far behind in terms of being untouchable to conditions, and guardians are clearing condi right and left on top of farting strong boons for their allies while doing so.

I can see quite clearly in most of your threads, you’re a guy looking for nerfs to mesmer on the sake of pvp duels/1v1 without a care for how that affects other game formats.

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Because it’s significantly stronger for MoR than for any other Mesmer heal, which is already a lot stronger HPS-wise thanks to the Mantra CD update.

Yeah, and it comes with the drawback of having to recharge the mantra every single time, opening you to interruption/CC.

There’s also the little drawback of doing 0 DPS or utility while casting for 2.5 seconds.

They all have their uses. You take Ether Feast for burst healing, MoR for highest HPS but modest but lesser burst healing. Phantasm specs take signet of the ether and it has a very large burst heal+ offensive perk at the cost of a longer cooldown (but with domination you get 1 sec of distortion out of it, which no other heal gets).

Before the update everybody would just use ether feast. Now people have options.

I’ll just say that with Mender’s Purity and Restorative Illusions, enemy condition builds can barely touch me. MoR is already comparable to other heals, it doesn’t need Mender’s Purity to be competitive: you seem to be implying that nerfing Mender’s Purity would make MoR “not an option”.

@Alpha: Inspiration is a lot more than “just the cleanse”. It’s also great healing and even more cleansing in Restorative Mantras and Illusions, and Mental Defense is a solid survivability boost. There’s also Inspiring Distortion, which IMO has the potential to be potent group support.

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. In PvE, it is one of the main reasons I’ll take it over Signet of the Ether.

And you want to nerf this heal for your stupid dueling sessions.

I don’t buy for one second that in any teamfight with engineers or eles around you’re untouchable considering the amount of condition output far exceeds 9 condi clears you’re getting from the mantra use.

Ele is virtually removing conditions everytime he applies regen, everytime he dodges in water attunement, then with water dagger 5 or earth focus 4, and then some more with cleansing fire.

Or conversely an ele can be completely immune to condi specs by taking diamond skin.

Warrior with cleansing ire and berk stance isn’t far behind in terms of being untouchable to conditions, and guardians are clearing condi right and left on top of farting strong boons for their allies while doing so.

I can see quite clearly in most of your threads, you’re a guy looking for nerfs to mesmer on the sake of pvp duels/1v1 without a care for how that affects other game formats.

I think you’re really overstating the condition cleansing potential of other classes. For starters Elementalist cleansing is mostly 1 condition at a time and cleansing skills tend to be on significant CDs, whereas Mender’s Purity is 2 conditions at a time and with MoR is available quite often (not very difficult to make a Mantra channel uninterruptible with some preparation). Restorative Illusions is likewise pretty spammable with Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration.

I’m surprised you mention Warriors as being resistant to conditions, in my experience they’re quite vulnerable.

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Well mantra mesmer is probably the most skill-less build in pvp right now. Mender’s purity with 3 mantra charges makes you have a ridiculous amount of sustain on a glass cannon build. Being able to heal over 8k between the mantra heal trait and using restorative mantras, while curing 6 conditions AoE is just way too much. Yeah you can interrupt the mantra, but staff gives lets you use phase retreat during the channel to keep you safe.

Also mantra of distraction is deeply problematic, because with confounding suggestions, it literally removes all the challenge of having to time and land your shatters properly.

Personally I think that the healing from restorative mantras needs to have a much lower base heal (say 1000 instead of 2500 at 0 healing power) but scale much much better with healing power. With celestial stats in pvp, restorative mantras heals for only 2750ish. Make it scale better with healing power so you don’t have berserker builds able to heal more than half of their HP every 12 seconds while being immune to conditions and dealing tons of burst damage thats unavoidable if you save your shatters for when your mantra stun hits.

I think Restorative Mantras is fine as it is. Healing power scaling is a pretty global problem in GW2, it’s hardly exclusive to RM.

nearlight.3064:

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Well mantra mesmer is probably the most skill-less build in pvp right now. Mender’s purity with 3 mantra charges makes you have a ridiculous amount of sustain on a glass cannon build. Being able to heal over 8k between the mantra heal trait and using restorative mantras, while curing 6 conditions AoE is just way too much. Yeah you can interrupt the mantra, but staff gives lets you use phase retreat during the channel to keep you safe.

Also mantra of distraction is deeply problematic, because with confounding suggestions, it literally removes all the challenge of having to time and land your shatters properly.

Personally I think that the healing from restorative mantras needs to have a much lower base heal (say 1000 instead of 2500 at 0 healing power) but scale much much better with healing power. With celestial stats in pvp, restorative mantras heals for only 2750ish. Make it scale better with healing power so you don’t have berserker builds able to heal more than half of their HP every 12 seconds while being immune to conditions and dealing tons of burst damage thats unavoidable if you save your shatters for when your mantra stun hits.

Terrible suggestion. For one, restorative mantras is a keystone utility of inspiration for PvE.

A 1k heal on a 2.5 sec cast is GARBAGE in a format where mobs are autoattacking you for 5-6k damage.

Then there’s healing power. It’s a terrible stat, it will never be used at least in PvE. The amount of healing power investment needed to benefit is immense and costs you so much damage in exchange.

And the reason people don’t gear for healing power is because it’s a stat that benefits very few skills, who are all on considerable cooldowns compared to offensive stats which benefit most of your skills, which are pretty frequent, or toughness or vitality which always benefit you at all times.

P.S. Phase Retreat does not protect you against head shot or fear/reaper’s mark or another mesmer’s mantra of distraction. And if they’re taking staff, they’re not using greatsword or sword/torch, in which case they’re missing out on offensive potential in exchange for defensive capacity, which is a fair trade off.

Fact is, mesmer was nonexistent in meta prior to the patch’s changes, and now we’re seeing each team having one mesmer often.

Meanwhile teams still carry two cele d/d elementalists and nobody complains.

Zenith.7301:

nearlight.3064:

Zenith.7301:

Embolism.8106:

Pretty sure it not working on the last cast is a bug. Not sure if they intended for it to not work on finishing the channel.

Either way, I think Mender’s Purity needs an ICD of 10s.

Why? It’s basically a minor trait that turns mantra of recovery into mantra of resolve. What’s wrong with that minor.

Ele and guardian and warrior go around cleansing conditions for days but apparently it’s broken if a mesmer does it with an ability that is a channeled, highly interruptible cast.

Well mantra mesmer is probably the most skill-less build in pvp right now. Mender’s purity with 3 mantra charges makes you have a ridiculous amount of sustain on a glass cannon build. Being able to heal over 8k between the mantra heal trait and using restorative mantras, while curing 6 conditions AoE is just way too much. Yeah you can interrupt the mantra, but staff gives lets you use phase retreat during the channel to keep you safe.

Also mantra of distraction is deeply problematic, because with confounding suggestions, it literally removes all the challenge of having to time and land your shatters properly.

Personally I think that the healing from restorative mantras needs to have a much lower base heal (say 1000 instead of 2500 at 0 healing power) but scale much much better with healing power. With celestial stats in pvp, restorative mantras heals for only 2750ish. Make it scale better with healing power so you don’t have berserker builds able to heal more than half of their HP every 12 seconds while being immune to conditions and dealing tons of burst damage thats unavoidable if you save your shatters for when your mantra stun hits.

Terrible suggestion. For one, restorative mantras is a keystone utility of inspiration for PvE.

A 1k heal on a 2.5 sec cast is GARBAGE in a format where mobs are autoattacking you for 5-6k damage.

Then there’s healing power. It’s a terrible stat, it will never be used at least in PvE. The amount of healing power investment needed to benefit is immense and costs you so much damage in exchange.

And the reason people don’t gear for healing power is because it’s a stat that benefits very few skills, who are all on considerable cooldowns compared to offensive stats which benefit most of your skills, which are pretty frequent, or toughness or vitality which always benefit you at all times.

P.S. Phase Retreat does not protect you against head shot or fear/reaper’s mark or another mesmer’s mantra of distraction. And if they’re taking staff, they’re not using greatsword or sword/torch, in which case they’re missing out on offensive potential in exchange for defensive capacity, which is a fair trade off.

Fact is, mesmer was nonexistent in meta prior to the patch’s changes, and now we’re seeing each team having one mesmer often.

Meanwhile teams still carry two cele d/d elementalists and nobody complains.

I believe that the d/d ele argument is irrelevant here. Yeah some things, such as their burning output need to be toned down, but this isn’t the thread for that. Double mesmer is a viable comp right now though, I mean just watch the last ESL, where Mime and Happy Kid (who mains thief) both played zerker ammy mantra mesmer, and came closer to beating the abjured than anyone has in months.

You say that restorative mantras is very important in PvE. That may be, but right now that trait is way too strong on glass cannon specs in PvP. Unfortunetly the devs don’t wish to balance skills differently between game modes, so a solution that will appease both sides is impossible. I do think that a PvP-centric balance approach is better for this situation simply because this change doesn’t impact mesmer DPS in PvE, and make mesmer too strong in competitve PvP environments.

And people take staff on mantra builds because it helps you charge them. That is a fact. Streamers I know say that taking sw/t with mantras isn’t ideal because you can’t cast anything while charging. Yeah its a fair trade off, but the point is, mantra mesmers have far too much sustain for the damage and CC they output. Its also such an incredibly easy build to learn, as evidenced by top players on other classes switching to mantra mesmer in mere days and still performing very well in tournaments (backpack and happy kid come to mind as examples, also magic toker learned it fully in two days).

Even if you are a top player in the game, mastering a build for competitive use in two days a little bit shallow in my opinion.

Finally I ask you to play a few games on staff/GS mantra mesmer, and then, after you feel fully comfortable with it, decide whether or not its really worthy of a nerf.

And why not nerf CS instead, which you say is crucial to dealing damage if they’re bad, and people agree could need toning down based on other builds too?
And, again, fix the dumb stat power creep via sPvP amulet changes before nerfing any individual class/build/trait.

Just to give you a history lesson, restorative mantras used to heal for about 1k or less. Nobody used them. Ever.

Then they buffed them to 3k a cast and people started using them.

Zenith.7301:

Just to give you a history lesson, restorative mantras used to heal for about 1k or less. Nobody used them. Ever.

Then they buffed them to 3k a cast and people started using them.

I want the base heal to be nerfed but the scaling with healing power to be massively improved so glass cannon builds in pvp have less sustain, while builds focused for it, such as celestial or what have are still able to heal over 3K with it. Clestial can’t even heal 3k with it now.

nearlight.3064:

I want the base heal to be nerfed but the scaling with healing power to be massively improved so glass cannon builds in pvp have less sustain, while builds focused for it, such as celestial or what have are still able to heal over 3K with it. Clestial can’t even heal 3k with it now.

Absolutely ruins it for PvE. Just ignore Healing Power until Anet launches a global rework.

Photoloss.4817:

nearlight.3064:

I want the base heal to be nerfed but the scaling with healing power to be massively improved so glass cannon builds in pvp have less sustain, while builds focused for it, such as celestial or what have are still able to heal over 3K with it. Clestial can’t even heal 3k with it now.

Absolutely ruins it for PvE. Just ignore Healing Power until Anet launches a global rework.

In PvE, damage is king, and nerfing this trait won’t effect your damage. In ideal scenarios the heal isn’t important because no one should be taking any real damage. All this trait does is let mesmers carry bad pug groups that can’t dodge.

So this raises an ethical question. Is it better to balance for the competitive game mode where tournaments and gems and money are often on the line, or is it better to balance for a cooperative game mode where most encounters are ended by picking up an ice bow and pressing 4? You tell me.

This bug is the reason I stopped using mantra’s. Not because they are bad. Just because it is annoying when using MoR to realize the last cast can’t cure conditions.

nearlight.3064:

Photoloss.4817:

nearlight.3064:

I want the base heal to be nerfed but the scaling with healing power to be massively improved so glass cannon builds in pvp have less sustain, while builds focused for it, such as celestial or what have are still able to heal over 3K with it. Clestial can’t even heal 3k with it now.

Absolutely ruins it for PvE. Just ignore Healing Power until Anet launches a global rework.

In PvE, damage is king, and nerfing this trait won’t effect your damage. In ideal scenarios the heal isn’t important because no one should be taking any real damage. All this trait does is let mesmers carry bad pug groups that can’t dodge.

So this raises an ethical question. Is it better to balance for the competitive game mode where tournaments and gems and money are often on the line, or is it better to balance for a cooperative game mode where most encounters are ended by picking up an ice bow and pressing 4? You tell me.

You haven’t fought Mai Trin of fractal lv50 if you think restorative mantras is of marginal use in PvE. That trait makes the fight night and day.

1st – it doesn’t matter anymore if a trait is minor or major or what ever – there is no tier anymore since you got them all anyways.

2nd – the bug is the missing cleanse on the 3rd charge, worked pre patch.

- good night

Xyonon.3987:

1st – it doesn’t matter anymore if a trait is minor or major or what ever – there is no tier anymore since you got them all anyways.

2nd – the bug is the missing cleanse on the 3rd charge, worked pre patch.

- good night

Minor or Major does matter because Minor traits are automatically granted on choosing the spec while Major traits are chosen over other Major traits. You’re thinking of Tiers.

Zenith.7301:

nearlight.3064:

Photoloss.4817:

nearlight.3064:

I want the base heal to be nerfed but the scaling with healing power to be massively improved so glass cannon builds in pvp have less sustain, while builds focused for it, such as celestial or what have are still able to heal over 3K with it. Clestial can’t even heal 3k with it now.

Absolutely ruins it for PvE. Just ignore Healing Power until Anet launches a global rework.

In PvE, damage is king, and nerfing this trait won’t effect your damage. In ideal scenarios the heal isn’t important because no one should be taking any real damage. All this trait does is let mesmers carry bad pug groups that can’t dodge.

So this raises an ethical question. Is it better to balance for the competitive game mode where tournaments and gems and money are often on the line, or is it better to balance for a cooperative game mode where most encounters are ended by picking up an ice bow and pressing 4? You tell me.

You haven’t fought Mai Trin of fractal lv50 if you think restorative mantras is of marginal use in PvE. That trait makes the fight night and day.

Why not just have the scale differences in PvE / PvP ? PvE it stays the same but in WvW / PvP it scales better with healing power and works like nearlight suggested? Both sides win.

Situations.2416:

Zenith.7301:

nearlight.3064:

Photoloss.4817:

nearlight.3064:

I want the base heal to be nerfed but the scaling with healing power to be massively improved so glass cannon builds in pvp have less sustain, while builds focused for it, such as celestial or what have are still able to heal over 3K with it. Clestial can’t even heal 3k with it now.

Absolutely ruins it for PvE. Just ignore Healing Power until Anet launches a global rework.

In PvE, damage is king, and nerfing this trait won’t effect your damage. In ideal scenarios the heal isn’t important because no one should be taking any real damage. All this trait does is let mesmers carry bad pug groups that can’t dodge.

So this raises an ethical question. Is it better to balance for the competitive game mode where tournaments and gems and money are often on the line, or is it better to balance for a cooperative game mode where most encounters are ended by picking up an ice bow and pressing 4? You tell me.

You haven’t fought Mai Trin of fractal lv50 if you think restorative mantras is of marginal use in PvE. That trait makes the fight night and day.

Why not just have the scale differences in PvE / PvP ? PvE it stays the same but in WvW / PvP it scales better with healing power and works like nearlight suggested? Both sides win.

That would be a great solution, but arenanet developer’s have stated that going forward they only want to balance things across all game modes, which is why they unsplit cleansing wave and mark of blood between pvp/pve in the june 23rd patch.