Guild Wars 2

So i’ve got into the top 100 team queue as mesmer and with a team that haven’t played full meta(first team necro, guardian, engi, thief, mesmer and second nec, guard, ranger, warr, mesmer)
And while i’m not nearly as good as helseth or misah or some other of the mesmers in top 100, especially in 1v1 vs other mesmers, i’m losing hope/motivation quickly knowing we would do so much better if i played a warrior..
Even if i was as good as Helseth at playing mesmer i would still feel i would be so much more effective as warrior(his team would probably be more effective if he was maining warrior or thief aswell).

I just don’t see any reason for myself to try get better at mesmer, knowing the next balance patch is probably like 2months away and will most likely not change a thing besides making mesmer even less wanted unless they contain some hefty changes to the current meta.
Atleast i guess i can be thankful for having team mates which allow me to play what i want to play but i HATE that feeling of knowing i could be more effective at a class i’m worse at.

Sorry if this just became a blob of text that is unreadable.

Help?
Words?
Hugs?
Motivational posters?

The PvP in this game is not a truly competitive scene. It never will be.

Play the game because you have fun, no other reason.

I play mesmer in PvP because it’s fun, and that’s all I need.

All the current alternatives are just as bad when it comes to PvP (which is pretty sad now that I’m thinking about it) so all I can say is this:

Play for fun.

If it’s not fun anymore try a different game for some time and eventually a better game will be released.

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

If you find warrior fun, then by all means, play warrior.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

If you find warrior fun, then by all means, play warrior.

I absolutely hate to play warrior in it’s current state, altho i quite enjoyed it before the healing signet patch.

I know how you feel, I am actually running war now instead of mesmer for my team. I tried Helseth’s new build(20/20/30/0/0), but I feel like the damage cost was not worth it. Mesmers are in a tough spot atm

A good thief will wreck me if I play traditional shatter. I am only in the top 200, but it still can be rough. I hate playing war, but I want my team to play better, so meh. Hopefully I will be able to go back eventually.

You win some, you lose some. Just enjoy the game bec of the fun. Dude i dueled some of the people in OMFG, i have a 5% chance win rate and Im not even mad. Just spend your time being creative and being unique. Play unusual builds or approaches.

Tbh the whole point capping part of tpvp and sPvP is dumb, look at other mmo,s and pvp games and you see endless of interesting game modes. Team death match, arena setup, capture flag, defend/attack base, hostage etc etc.

The tPvP setup in GW2 is about stay in a circle without use defensive skills that some classes relayed on (mobility, stealth, immunity) but free to use defensive skills that other classes have huge access to.

The while tPvP is kittened in this send and I could not care less about the ranking ppl have (rank don’t say a anything really imao even if I off bow to the ppl who work hard to get a high rank) who not show who fight best but who is best at stand in circle and play a dumbed game mode who the devs made to the only game mode.

Respect for a good pvper I feel when I face a tight 5 man team in wvwvw who kill basically anything the face and use the sandbox setup to find cheesy ways to outplay big mindless team or simply fight better vs other roaming teams.

If someone say "Wahhabi woohoo look I’m awesome at stand I a circle with my necro spam are I just smile and shake my head.

Until more pvp mode come up personally I play the sPvP/tPvP part of the game with ignoring the point system and looking for interesting fights. Do what you think fun, the devs have some vision of force this part of the game to a export who is doomed to gal due to the pure level of boredom the only setup offer.

/Osicat

I respect that you are very skilled at WvW, but please do kitten all over tpvp just because you do not like the game mode. This thread is not about WvW; mesmers almost never stand on point, but dps from the side and roam.

I do agree we need more gamemodes, but specially for mesmers I would like to see more build diversity, and a rework of some our more useless traits. I am hoping some the new amulets will give us a bit more sustain, so as to be able to better handle being trained by certain classes.

As I wrote last night in the Balance forum, it’s a sad comment on the state of profession balance when you have good players who want to play mesmer considering switching to warrior because it would help their team more. And simultaneously, the “balance team” is talking about nerfing mesmers to death, but of course not warriors.

As for PvP vs. WvW, I’ve played both, though I’ve lost much of my interest in PvP because of all of the flaws in it they don’t fix. There’s no direct comparison, they are just different types of games. I will say overall that the average PvP player is MUCH better at player-player combat than the average WvW, for a whole bunch of reasons, most of which are obvious.

yeah mesmers already bring a uniwue trait to tPvP, its boon stripping, a boonstrip shatter with null field can make short work of warriors and guardians, they anti-tank roamers thats what makes them useful and why helseth is allowed by his team to play it, not just his skill, instead of jumping on the warrior bandwaggon take a second to relook at the mesmer in tPvP

Pyroatheist.9031:

The PvP in this game is not a truly competitive scene. It never will be.

Play the game because you have fun, no other reason.

I play mesmer in PvP because it’s fun, and that’s all I need.

Indeed, although “fun” needs to be defined in some cases:

- If you define fun as winning, then re-roll to the current FOTM OP class and feel good about yourself believing you’re pro;
- If you define fun as playing a class you’ve fallen in love with at day one, then stick with it through ups and downs.

Mesmer isn’t the apex predator at the moment and my lockdown spec certainly isn’t the best spec in the current Meta, but for me fun is beating others against the odds or beating others at their own game (i.e. nothing beats chain-dazing/stunning a HamBow to dead or stripping all boons from a Guardian through shatters and Nullfield).

Also, we don’t quite now what the March feature patch will bring balance wise… they’ll take another look at the proposed Mesmer changes they said, and they may provide some buffs as well. The whole Meta could shift again.

At the end of the day… it’s a game, so no matter how you define fun, go for that.

Marsares.2053:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The PvP in this game is not a truly competitive scene. It never will be.

Play the game because you have fun, no other reason.

I play mesmer in PvP because it’s fun, and that’s all I need.

Indeed, although “fun” needs to be defined in some cases:

- If you define fun as winning, then re-roll to the current FOTM OP class and feel good about yourself believing you’re pro;
- If you define fun as playing a class you’ve fallen in love with at day one, then stick with it through ups and downs.

Alternatively, stick with Mesmer and win anyway, which seems to be the most fun combo. Unless you’re playing extremely high ranked in team queue, Mesmer is definitely viable.

yep pretty much what others said, play for fun. I lived in pvp for the first few month of this game but in the end I just don’t find bunkering fun so I just stopped doing pvp and tpvp. I was playing ele main back them and they were the best bunker back then still it’s just not fun.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Marsares.2053:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The PvP in this game is not a truly competitive scene. It never will be.

Play the game because you have fun, no other reason.

I play mesmer in PvP because it’s fun, and that’s all I need.

Indeed, although “fun” needs to be defined in some cases:

- If you define fun as winning, then re-roll to the current FOTM OP class and feel good about yourself believing you’re pro;
- If you define fun as playing a class you’ve fallen in love with at day one, then stick with it through ups and downs.

Alternatively, stick with Mesmer and win anyway, which seems to be the most fun combo. Unless you’re playing extremely high ranked in team queue, Mesmer is definitely viable.

even in high rank team queue they are viable, is siggest the GS/Staff Boonshatter, you play the anti guard/tank roll for clearing points as roaming, with portal you can be extremely useful to a team if played right, dont just dismiss then from tPvP

I still have fun on my Mesmer, but I also wish ANet would look at some of the other classes dominating TPvP cough warrior cough and adjust them accordingly instead of nerf us again.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The PvP in this game is not a truly competitive scene. It never will be.

Play the game because you have fun, no other reason.

I play mesmer in PvP because it’s fun, and that’s all I need.

So true. I got all pumped up to try my guardian in pvp yesterday and got rolled. I’m sure there are many who can do great with a guardian and granted I am not as familiar with some of the skill flow, but when I switched back to my Mesmer, it felt like home and a whole lot more fun. It can be easy to loose sight of the “escape/fun factor” we all likely started playing for. I was away from the game for about four months because it just wasn’t fun. Once I started to feel enjoyment again I dove back in till the next drop off…

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

selan.8354:

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

Don’t forget portal.

selan.8354:

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

Don’t think that will be a problem for me, i usually dislike the big zerg fights and tend to roam alot on my own in other games.

selan.8354:

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

Idd travaler runes and power PU with 1200 y blink make mesmer one of the most fun roaming classes in wvwvw, team up with 1-2 thiefs and 2 usain bolt warriors and you can be a nightmare.

/Osicat

Blackhat.4016:

selan.8354:

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

Don’t forget portal.

hahaha omg i forgot. yeah portaling golems is like super awesome. its the highlight of my entire gameing career XD

Osicat.4139:

selan.8354:

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

Idd travaler runes and power PU with 1200 y blink make mesmer one of the most fun roaming classes in wvwvw, team up with 1-2 thiefs and 2 usain bolt warriors and you can be a nightmare.

/Osicat

roaming i completely agree with u, i even use almost the same build like u… but im not a roamer im part of a zergbusting group.in an outnumbered fight u gotta be really on top of your game or u die in 2 sec as mes. i use pu there so im not a rallybot.

@Selan, understand how you mean, in the end we come down thus to the fact mesmers don’t have any really superb zergbusting build sens the glamour and blinding+confusion nerf. A organized raid 25 man team will be most effective as a mele train with Mesmer as a support veil caster. Don’t really matter what setup we bring for aoe dmg as other dps classes do this better and even bring better survival/defense ratio.

Whoops thu, think u and me led this thread away from the tpvp questions, sorry op

/Osicay

I was watching Sensotix’s last “Mesmer Team-Q PUG=fun” stream.

He was playing thief.

Mesmers (and elementalists) will not be competitive in PvP unless ANet nerfs thieves.

It’s really that simple.

Osicat.4139:

@Selan, understand how you mean, in the end we come down thus to the fact mesmers don’t have any really superb zergbusting build sens the glamour and blinding+confusion nerf. A organized raid 25 man team will be most effective as a mele train with Mesmer as a support veil caster. Don’t really matter what setup we bring for aoe dmg as other dps classes do this better and even bring better survival/defense ratio.

Whoops thu, think u and me led this thread away from the tpvp questions, sorry op

/Osicay

yeah true sry op dont wanna take away from your thread. in tpvp people dont like bringing mesmers as they have a hard time to hold on to cap points and also we got not the constant pressure on a target like other classes do. im still doing well with my pu power mes with a s/pistol and scepter torch. it takes quiet long to take bunkers down, but classy thieves, they attack, u block, boom torment 5 stack if they stealth wait 2 sec stealth too dodge have thief attack clone use magic bullet cast pistol phantasm which will hit the thief the moment he gets out of stealth for up to 6k.

so it is possible to play a mesmer in tpvp, but just switch off chat as there is many many people qqing about u choosing mes. i had a guy telling me oh u shouldnt play mes in tpvp u are too weak and are dragging down the team. i scored 2nd in points and was on rampage quiet often and only died once. he was quiet after that.

Oddly enough, clone-on-death is viable in tPvP.

…and it’s going to get nerfed.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mesmers (and elementalists) will not be competitive in PvP unless ANet nerfs thieves.

It’s really that simple.

Don’t forget about warriors. It seems like a lot of people would rather play a warrior because of how easy it is, honestly.

SallyStitches.4096:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mesmers (and elementalists) will not be competitive in PvP unless ANet nerfs thieves.

It’s really that simple.

Don’t forget about warriors. It seems like a lot of people would rather play a warrior because of how easy it is, honestly.

Warriors have nothing to do with mesmer unviability. If anything, the existence of warriors make mesmers more viable since we counter warriors very hard.

I’d qualify that. Shatter mesmers counter warriors. Phantasm mesmers don’t really do enough damage before they are killed to threaten warriors.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’d qualify that. Shatter mesmers counter warriors. Phantasm mesmers don’t really do enough damage before they are killed to threaten warriors.

I mean…are you talking in a group fight or if a warrior comes to try and knock you off a treb or point or something? In a group fight, sure, the phantasms squish. In a 1v1 situation, the warrior will be eating dirt practically before he gets close.

Currently I would argue that you can get r1 as a Mesmer in solo queue. I don’t think that’s quite as achievable in team queue though. Personally I play Mesmer when I stream, solo queue, and hot join. But when I’m practicing for my team and playing with my team, I play Warrior/Ranger/Thief.
In terms of motivation, I agree with Pyro in that you play Mesmer to have fun and then if you’re playing to win in team queues (or even in solo queue I guess), you play Meta.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’d qualify that. Shatter mesmers counter warriors. Phantasm mesmers don’t really do enough damage before they are killed to threaten warriors.

Well, depends on the level of play I suppose.. but in my middling position on the leaderboards I kill far more warriors in 1v1s on my phantasm/PU hybrid than the other way around.

Pyroatheist.9031:

SallyStitches.4096:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mesmers (and elementalists) will not be competitive in PvP unless ANet nerfs thieves.

It’s really that simple.

Don’t forget about warriors. It seems like a lot of people would rather play a warrior because of how easy it is, honestly.

Warriors have nothing to do with mesmer unviability. If anything, the existence of warriors make mesmers more viable since we counter warriors very hard.

Then I guess I must be doing something wrong, because countering warriors is rough when they constantly immobilize you and CC you with stuns, etc. I’m running a shatter build with boon removal, and I don’t know what else to do, really. Not run Lyssa runes maybe? I’m only 2 wins away from Champion Illusionist, and it’s proving to be really difficult, and it doesn’t help we’re getting put against teams 30 ranks above us, and with multiple warriors.

I’m losing motivation quickly as well in spite of my earlier positive comments. All you face is spam-classes: warriors that just button-mash and rely on stability, immunity and sustain, thieves that just abuse stealth and mash-2 and condi-classes that spam condis whilst running in circles and hoping for the best. And yet, you often get face-rolled by them whilst clearly they’re just button-mashing.

It’s just soul destroying when you have to line up the stars, the moon and the sun in order to defeat certain classes that have so much leeway themselves and still can beat you just by button-mashing whilst you play perfectly or near perfectly.

I like a challenge. I love it, otherwise I get bored and quit a game… but at the moment it’s getting to a point where you wonder why you bother when class balance is so out of kilter that the dev team have become a joke and clearly have no idea how to fix it, nor are intend on fixing it in a reasonable time frame.

I feel like a lot of people see warriors and just completely give up mentally, don’t even attempt to think about how to counter them or otherwise, when they’re actually very easy to counter on mesmer. It just sort of irritates me when you see people complaining about getting ‘facerolled by button-mashing’ when in reality any competent mesmer should be able to mop the floor with a ‘button-mashing’ warrior.

People make comments as if the warrior tools have no logical counterplay. Stability can be stripped. Immunity is very short duration, sustain can be easily powered through. Warriors really aren’t that difficult to fight unless you completely fail to dodge or counter any of their attacks.

Lets see….other classes complained about.

Stealth abusing thieves? Really? Maybe in WvW, but in PvP if a thief is ‘permastealthing’, then you just captured a point, no sweat. 2 Spam hasn’t been an actually dangerous tactic for about 10 months. Now it only serves to show which thieves are a free kill.

People need to whine less, think more, and play better.

Speaking from experience, warriors are stupidly easy to play. I went into PvP on mine, never had before, and was wrecking people. I’m not exaggerating, my guildies and I were laughing at how easy it is. Yet ANet plans to nerf us instead? I went with a PU condition build to counter warriors. Thieves arent as big a deal, unless they’re good. There are glaringly obvious problems with balance in PvP, and I just wish they’d be more addressed.

Pyroatheist.9031:

I feel like a lot of people see warriors and just completely give up mentally, don’t even attempt to think about how to counter them or otherwise, when they’re actually very easy to counter on mesmer.

Pyro, you tend to say that pretty much everything is “easy”, which it might be for you, but it obviously isn’t for most others.

I think it also depends on what sort of build you’re running, and at what level you’re playing PvP.

Qaelyn.7612:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I feel like a lot of people see warriors and just completely give up mentally, don’t even attempt to think about how to counter them or otherwise, when they’re actually very easy to counter on mesmer.

Pyro, you tend to say that pretty much everything is “easy”, which it might be for you, but it obviously isn’t for most others.

I think it also depends on what sort of build you’re running, and at what level you’re playing PvP.

Well, that’s the thing though. Everyone will have a hard time if they give up mentally before even trying, and that’s what seems to happen.

The mesmer toolset is almost unique designed to counter warriors. Warriors have loads of well telegraphed abilities, rely a lot of long cooldown applications of long duration boons, and don’t have the best in-combat mobility. Mesmer hard-counters each of those with great access to active defense, strong boon stripping, and incredibly good in-combat mobility.

Pyroatheist.9031:

waffle waffle waffle

People need to whine less, think more, and play better.

It may irritate you to see people complain about other classes and mentally give up. It irritates me to see people just make assumptions about other people that they don’t know, have never seen play and have no relationship with whatsoever. You may have put it in a few paragraphs of nice English prose, but it can be summarised as: “L2P and kitten, noob.”

And that is an insult. And I don’t take kindly to insults, especially not from someone who has never seen me play nor who has any idea about what my mental state is.

Now, I know you’re one of the resident forum warriors and I can in all likelihood expect another lengthy treatise on how I suck and mentally give up and all that good stuff, but at the end of the day even you will agree with me that the current Meta is not a lot of fun, that the Mesmer still has numerous viable builds but most of them rely on PU which just isn’t my thing, that certain other classes are significantly much easier to play and have a risk/reward balance that is out of kilter and that – finally – the Devs clearly seem at a loss on how the Mesmer functions, let alone on how to balance him.

And, yes, that does get to me at times. Sue me. Or forum warrior me more and feel good about yourself. Whilst you type, I’ll chain-lock some more warriors, thieves and necros.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, that’s the thing though. Everyone will have a hard time if they give up mentally before even trying, and that’s what seems to happen.

It may “seem” that way to you, but that doesn’t mean that is what’s actually happening.

Also, you seem to play mostly solo queue. Most of the people in this thread play team queue. They are different worlds in terms of player ability and playstyle, and that also impacts your perceptions.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The mesmer toolset is almost unique designed to counter warriors. Warriors have loads of well telegraphed abilities, rely a lot of long cooldown applications of long duration boons, and don’t have the best in-combat mobility. Mesmer hard-counters each of those with great access to active defense, strong boon stripping, and incredibly good in-combat mobility.

This is another example of theory not meeting up with reality, in which case, I always go with reality. It’s like this marionette event, where people keep telling me “boss #3 is not that hard, just do _” yet 3/4 of the platform failures are on boss #3, sometimes 4 or 5 times in a row. That tells me that there’s a problem with the event, not the people.

And similarly here, there’s a problem with PvP game balance with respect to warriors, which pretty much everyone but Arenanet can glaringly see. That doesn’t mean people “give up mentally”. It means they get frustrated at having to work twice as hard to defeat people as they would on a warrior, and so they express that frustration.

Qaelyn.7612:

Also, you seem to play mostly solo queue. Most of the people in this thread play team queue. They are different worlds in terms of player ability and playstyle, and that also impacts your perceptions.

This isn’t exactly true. If you look at the leaderboards for solo queue and team queue, you’ll see that there’s actually quite a lot of overlap in players. While this doesn’t mean there are no differences between the 2, because there are, it does mean that there’s not much of a difference in individual player skill.

So, while there are definitely a lot of valid complaints of how the mesmer itself doesn’t fit into the team queue meta that I agree with, once people start complaining about individual class matchups, that’s where I have more of an issue.

Qaelyn.7612:

This is another example of theory not meeting up with reality, in which case, I always go with reality. It’s like this marionette event, where people keep telling me “boss #3 is not that hard, just do _” yet 3/4 of the platform failures are on boss #3, sometimes 4 or 5 times in a row. That tells me that there’s a problem with the event, not the people.

Again, maybe it’s because I learned how to fight warriors before they became commonly regarded as gods, but what I said there lines up quite nicely with reality, and all of the best mesmer players I know have similarly few troubles with warriors.

Qaelyn.7612:

And similarly here, there’s a problem with PvP game balance with respect to warriors, which pretty much everyone but Arenanet can glaringly see.

On the other hand, this is definitely true. While I have no troubles with warriors in a 1 on 1 matchup, they definitely cause large problems in the meta with a wider look. I’m absolutely not disputing that fact. I simply have problems when people start complaining about individual classes and how they can’t fight them or can’t handle them. It’s one thing to say ‘mesmers have no real place in the competitive team PvP meta, and that’s a problem’. It’s an entirely different thing to say ‘I hate how I get destroyed by no-skill people playing classes x, y, and z’. One is a legitimate complaint, the other is not.

Pyroatheist.9031:

This isn’t exactly true. If you look at the leaderboards for solo queue and team queue, you’ll see that there’s actually quite a lot of overlap in players. While this doesn’t mean there are no differences between the 2, because there are, it does mean that there’s not much of a difference in individual player skill.

Sure there’s some correlation, but there are also major, major differences. You seem to have a ranking in the top 200 on solo queue and yet a very low percentile on team queue. I think this may color your perceptions on their similarity. My leaderboard positions are similar on the two and while the players may be similar in certain respects, there are night-and-day differences in actual gameplay.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Again, maybe it’s because I learned how to fight warriors before they became commonly regarded as gods, but what I said there lines up quite nicely with reality, and all of the best mesmer players I know have similarly few troubles with warriors.

Well there seem to be some pretty good mesmer players here who do. shrug

Pyroatheist.9031:

On the other hand, this is definitely true. While I have no troubles with warriors in a 1 on 1 matchup, they definitely cause large problems in the meta with a wider look. I’m absolutely not disputing that fact. I simply have problems when people start complaining about individual classes and how they can’t fight them or can’t handle them. It’s one thing to say ‘mesmers have no real place in the competitive team PvP meta, and that’s a problem’. It’s an entirely different thing to say ‘I hate how I get destroyed by no-skill people playing classes x, y, and z’. One is a legitimate complaint, the other is not.

But the legitimate complaint is most of what this thread is about. There’s some frustration with respect to 1v1, but that’s because even there warriors are a lot harder to kill than most other classes, even by mesmers. The bad ones, sure, are relatively easy, but the players in this thread are mostly at higher levels and not facing bad ones.

Qaelyn.7612:

while the players may be similar in certain respects, there are night-and-day differences in actual gameplay.

That’s what I’m trying to say though. Individual players aren’t particularly different between team and solo queue, but matches do play very differently, and the overall dynamic is very different. I’m aware of this.

Qaelyn.7612:

But the legitimate complaint is most of what this thread is about.

This I’m also aware of, but that’s not what I originally responded to. I agree with the basic premise of most of this thread, so I didn’t bother to agree with it in writing simply because there was no need. My reply was specifically aimed at those who complain about being unable to handle individual classes, with warrior only being one of several mentioned.

Sensotix have some great new builds (10/30/20/10/0 on youtube), give those a shot, they don’t have weakness against anything and give you great confidence on taking portal while not losing in fight survivability.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’d qualify that. Shatter mesmers counter warriors. Phantasm mesmers don’t really do enough damage before they are killed to threaten warriors.

I mean…are you talking in a group fight or if a warrior comes to try and knock you off a treb or point or something? In a group fight, sure, the phantasms squish. In a 1v1 situation, the warrior will be eating dirt practically before he gets close.

If it’s zerker v zerker, a phantasm Mesmer can definitely take down a warrior.

Against a tanky warrior build, I have not had good luck. I’ve run many trebs as a phantasm (20/20/0/30/0) zerker Mesmer and simply cannot do enough damage to stop a tanky warrior from running up, killing the treb and leaving.

Literally, a tank warrior can fully heal the damage of an iZerker in between its attacks.

meichor.7809:

Sensotix have some great new builds (10/30/20/10/0 on youtube), give those a shot, they don’t have weakness against anything and give you great confidence on taking portal while not losing in fight survivability.

I can vouch for this. 10/30/20/10 can out-bunker just about anything 1v1, but it has so little team support that Portal becomes marginally useful. Played right, it’s crazy. The other night I had a condi-mancer repeatedly come to try to drop me on a side-node and couldn’t do it (I had Disenchanter instead of Portal).

All this aside, I’d really like to know what role ANet has in mind for Mesmers.

Mesmer used to be very good at a roaming/decap/group support, but has not been viable since ANet buffed condition damage and buffed thieves almost a full year ago.

The condition meta has changed somewhat, but I still see thieves as just better for that role. In fact, if you watch any tPvP games with Helseth, you’ll see the current meta in action: the opposing team’s thief simply chases Helseth down the entire game and stomps him with impunity.

Since Mesmers really can’t run Zerker due to thieves, what should they run?