Guild Wars 2

I told we gonna get nerved and from all the wrong places been Messer from beta and saw it coming from mile away really sad about mirror blade Nerf…

If you don’t understand how big Nerf it is than let me tell you mirror blade looses 40% of dig bc tied hit you have 6 might and enemy has 6 vunrebility and mindwreck after it looses 3% damage

So greatsword basic burst looses almost 25% of damage

Further:

• Mirror Blade and Shatter damage is all a target is taking.
• Active mitigation doesn’t exist and hence doesn’t have to be factored in.
• Greatsword burst is all a Mesmer ever does and also constitutes all damage going out. I just idle between shatter bursts, same as you.
• 1v1 fights are balanced, designed for and provide an interesting and useful source of balance information.

If you thought “yes, that’s true” to any of the above, you got bigger issues than whether Mirror Blade was nerfed rightfully or not. Irregardless of the nerf, none of what you write makes much sense because the situation you describe is a clean room no-context test which is as far from “what we need to dev for” in MMOs as it gets.

I honestly think the nerf to Mirror Blade was justified

DHawk.2687:

I honestly think the nerf to Mirror Blade was justified

I thing all other nerds were justified but not mirror blade

Nerfing Mirror Blade is just gonna take us back to the pre-patch damage where pretty much anyone but pure glass can facetank and shatter burst and recover. What’s more, with Elasticity baselined, we can’t even spend a trait slot to boost it back. So just looking at Mirror Blade, it is worse than pre-patch as it is now stuck at the base number of bounces pre-patch. Obviously there’s more to it than that(plus power creep), but it literally was one step forward, two steps back.

Necrotize gets me could we get trait to add 1 bounce to mirror blade

baylock.1703:

Necrotize gets me could we get trait to add 1 bounce to mirror blade

technically a good idea, but i would make it a GM in the same tree as PU
to give players the insentive to not use this trait anymore or rather said increase the variaty of builds
since 1 bounce doesn’t sound like much you have to look at the damage increase that 1 extra bounce gives you, someone calculated it above if I’m not mistaking
since other classes have somewhat useless GM like thief e.g. gain 1 ini on weaponswap, woopdidoo ^^ I think it would make for a good balance

Meanwhile we in pre patch damage yet on other classes…….

DHawk.2687:

baylock.1703:

Necrotize gets me could we get trait to add 1 bounce to mirror blade

technically a good idea, but i would make it a GM in the same tree as PU
to give players the insentive to not use this trait anymore or rather said increase the variaty of builds
since 1 bounce doesn’t sound like much you have to look at the damage increase that 1 extra bounce gives you, someone calculated it above if I’m not mistaking
since other classes have somewhat useless GM like thief e.g. gain 1 ini on weaponswap, woopdidoo ^^ I think it would make for a good balance

It’d be pretty much the same situation…
Elasticity was a master tier Illusion trait. Not only does it have pretty much no synergy with Chaos traits, but it definitely isn’t worth a GM trait slot, especially when it competes with the Shatter build’s only form of disengage/defense. Saying we should make more useless GM traits because other classes already have them is a horrible way to balance things. So again, 1 step forward, 2 steps back. We could get the bounce back, but we’d have to sacrifice literally all the defense in the current “meta” shatter build just to get pre-patch damage back. And in case you forgot, with pre-patch damage, most classes could face tank Mirror Bursts(In PvP) and recover before the next one came, meaning for most classes 2 consecutive, successful mirror blade bursts was what it took, and because of this, shatter mesmer was not too common in higher end pvp.

I know it’s dumb, but anet made countless traits GM that aren’t even worth a minor state
giving the bounce to a master trait or lower will just result in mesmer being called op again
because we all know anet won’t adjust the traits in the near future imho if you add it back in, make it a GM trait and maybe add something like increased radius on GS#3

DHawk.2687:

I know it’s dumb, but anet made countless traits GM that aren’t even worth a minor state
giving the bounce to a master trait or lower will just result in mesmer being called op again
because we all know anet won’t adjust the traits in the near future imho if you add it back in, make it a GM trait and maybe add something like increased radius on GS#3

Make it part of imagined burden, that way you can choose to boost gs mirror blade burst (and might want to add in something like the increased radius too) or interrupt damage or massive mind wrack damage, but not multiple.

Nah it’s all fine. Typical arenanet reaction. People were crying about one-shots from stealth… let us nerf mesmer burst and not PU…
I’m pretty sure that balancing based on reddit/forum QQ is not a good idea. But whatever, once the dust has settled you can have celestial wars back.

My Mesmer uses absolutely zero stealth, and this Mirror Blade nerf really bothers me. I have more hours played in this game than any other game, and I’ll be playing it until Guild Wars 3, but my nerves are definitely tested with this. Let me break it down:

1. We used to be able to trait Illusionary Elasticity for that extra bounce.
2. ArenaNet gave us the extra bounce as baseline and removed the trait.
3. ArenaNet then removed the extra bounce as well.

I’ve been the victim of a few bait-and-switches in my life, but boy do they sure hit me right in the feels every time. I’d much rather have Confounding Suggestions completely reworked into something that offers counter-play than have this nerfed Mirror Blade. Hell, I’ll even make a suggestion:

Confounding Suggestions
Increase daze duration when interrupting a foe.

• Duration increase: 100%

This would make the trait more skill-based like Power Block and offer counter-play in the fact that players can move and dodge while dazed unlike when they are stunned.

Sorry, I was too busy playing PU Condi shatter to notice the nerf.

And now sigil of air and fire got nerfed. Great to see Anet shaving down the op dmg from the zerker shater build. Another step in the right direction.

actually mirror blade is not target taking..just melee range when without a target..

Kusa.6438:

Sorry, I was too busy playing PU Condi shatter to notice the nerf.

Are you saying that you are actually concentrating when using that build?

Milamberr.1705:

Kusa.6438:

Sorry, I was too busy playing PU Condi shatter to notice the nerf.

Are you saying that you are actually concentrating when using that build?

Of course, watching youtube during matches.

Velimere.7685:

I’ve been the victim of a few bait-and-switches in my life, but boy do they sure hit me right in the feels every time.

You play a MMO. Potentially multiple. How many balance changes before you stop playing classes for their numbers and instead play for their loadout?

It’s not worth it to change classes or pick based on who is effective. Even at GW2’s glacial development speed compared to other MMOs, you’re going to get kittened off if you do that, because Things Change™.

Rather, pick based on design and loadout, not on whether it’s valid or not right now. Enjoy both being the apex predator at some time, and another time you’re the underdog, impressing people by being 95% effective on something they considered 90% ineffective. :P

Carighan.6758:

Velimere.7685:

I’ve been the victim of a few bait-and-switches in my life, but boy do they sure hit me right in the feels every time.

You play a MMO. Potentially multiple. How many balance changes before you stop playing classes for their numbers and instead play for their loadout?

It’s not worth it to change classes or pick based on who is effective. Even at GW2’s glacial development speed compared to other MMOs, you’re going to get kittened off if you do that, because Things Change™.

Rather, pick based on design and loadout, not on whether it’s valid or not right now. Enjoy both being the apex predator at some time, and another time you’re the underdog, impressing people by being 95% effective on something they considered 90% ineffective. :P

Sorry but mesmer isn’t just 95% as effective in situations, it’s half as effective if not less sometimes. Case in point, PvE where phantasms mean we do very poor dps. Another great example is the new living world season 2 stuff.

Most of that wasn’t just a bit harder for mesmers, it required a lot more effort and various things about our class simply were incompatible like how we needed a buff to do damage to some enemies in Glints lair but our phantasms couldn’t get it nor our clones.

Fortunately PvP the effort and reward is less skewed but if Mesmer keeps getting needed it will rapidly become a beginner unfriendly class again and you will see Mesmer numbers dwindle.

I have a level 80 of every base class primarily because of ArenaNet’s tenancy to over-nerf, nerf the wrong thing(s), and have said nerfs bleed over into PvE from a basis in PvP.

I wish I could pull up my post from back when they first announced the trait and balance changes for mesmer after the first indepth profession preview for HoT.

It went some where like this:

- this all sounds great and totaly op for pvp
- this will get nerfed within 2 weeks of getting implemented due to pvp balance
- mesmers will be worse of in pve for it

Unfortunately the thread got closed and removed since the tone took a very harsh dive (and the topic was not appreciated by anet).

As it stands now, just wait for HoT to release, and then get the worst nerf streak ever to hit mesmer once again as soon as the chronomancer abilities are in play. Mesmer just don’t get any pve breaks. :/

Don’t worry, Cyninja. I don’t think you can wear your Shield if you don’t have the Chrono line equipped.

My favourite bit is today I went on power necro to get the daily. I literally killed a thief in one attack. Life blast with air and fire proc and spinal shivers auto cast. All I had to do is wait for his dodge animation to end.

I then kept killing him by using DS fear and again, one or two life blasts.

I liked the game more a few weeks ago when things were strong and you HAD to dodge, kite and rotate around the power. Soon we’ll all be back in the same mud as pre patch with everything being different colours of brown except ele, guard and engy.

We are also cursed by a great utility skill called portal. As long as we still have portal, people will still say mesmer has portal no matter how bad the class gets nerf’ed in its personal fight power.

apharma.3741:

My favourite bit is today I went on power necro to get the daily. I literally killed a thief in one attack. Life blast with air and fire proc and spinal shivers auto cast. All I had to do is wait for his dodge animation to end.

I then kept killing him by using DS fear and again, one or two life blasts.

I liked the game more a few weeks ago when things were strong and you HAD to dodge, kite and rotate around the power. Soon we’ll all be back in the same mud as pre patch with everything being different colours of brown except ele, guard and engy.

In sPvP that might be fun, but honestly if I want twitch action PvP I got better and more focused games for that.
In my MMO I want a leisure and relaxed combat which allows me to chat and hence socialize. Even between casts. That’s what I play a MMORPG for after all.

Carighan.6758:

apharma.3741:

My favourite bit is today I went on power necro to get the daily. I literally killed a thief in one attack. Life blast with air and fire proc and spinal shivers auto cast. All I had to do is wait for his dodge animation to end.

I then kept killing him by using DS fear and again, one or two life blasts.

I liked the game more a few weeks ago when things were strong and you HAD to dodge, kite and rotate around the power. Soon we’ll all be back in the same mud as pre patch with everything being different colours of brown except ele, guard and engy.

In sPvP that might be fun, but honestly if I want twitch action PvP I got better and more focused games for that.
In my MMO I want a leisure and relaxed combat which allows me to chat and hence socialize. Even between casts. That’s what I play a MMORPG for after all.

yeah well this game is and always has been about ‘action combat’, it was the main selling point… Not leisure relaxed combat… Although that is still available, you can pve or go in zerg and 1 spam like the rest.

Awesome Mesmer patch this has turned out to be:
1) MB worse off than before
2) MtD worse off than before
3) HM worse off than before
4) Some CD reduction arguably worse off than before

Anyone get the feeling the wrong things are getting nerfed, and we will still get hit with CS & PU nerfs, and with a little “luck” (Memser style) these 2 will be worse off than before too!!!

More knee-jerk nerfs incoming!

Oh HoT will be so awesome, we’ll get to see in what creative ways they’ll nerf Chrono into uselessness 2 weeks after release!…or maybe even before it ships!

Windwalker.7421:

Awesome Mesmer patch this has turned out to be:
1) MB worse off than before
2) MtD worse off than before
3) HM worse off than before
4) Some CD reduction arguably worse off than before

Anyone get the feeling the wrong things are getting nerfed, and we will still get hit with CS & PU nerfs, and with a little “luck” (Memser style) these 2 will be worse off than before too!!!

More knee-jerk nerfs incoming!

Oh HoT will be so awesome, we’ll get to see in what creative ways they’ll nerf Chrono into uselessness 2 weeks after release!…or maybe even before it ships!

At this point they need to nerf CS & PU since ironically they missed the 2 most overpowered traits we got. The only way they can nerf those in good conscience would be to throw out some buffs.

Given past trends we won’t get the buffs.

Devs nerfing everything on Mesmer except what needs to be nerfed. Predictable.

Windwalker.7421:

Oh HoT will be so awesome, we’ll get to see in what creative ways they’ll nerf Chrono into uselessness 2 weeks after release!…or maybe even before it ships!

They’ll decide that F5 and Alacrity were too powerful and remove both without adding any other features.

tobascodagama.2961:

Windwalker.7421:

Oh HoT will be so awesome, we’ll get to see in what creative ways they’ll nerf Chrono into uselessness 2 weeks after release!…or maybe even before it ships!

They’ll decide that F5 and Alacrity were too powerful and remove both without adding any other features.

They’ll just add it to Elementalist instead of Chronomancer.

MailMail.6534:

tobascodagama.2961:

Windwalker.7421:

Oh HoT will be so awesome, we’ll get to see in what creative ways they’ll nerf Chrono into uselessness 2 weeks after release!…or maybe even before it ships!

They’ll decide that F5 and Alacrity were too powerful and remove both without adding any other features.

They’ll just add it to Elementalist instead of Chronomancer.

And add a bunch of damage modifiers because eles were complaining they might have to sacrifice damage for utility like the pleb classes.

Levetty.1279:

MailMail.6534:

tobascodagama.2961:

Windwalker.7421:

Oh HoT will be so awesome, we’ll get to see in what creative ways they’ll nerf Chrono into uselessness 2 weeks after release!…or maybe even before it ships!

They’ll decide that F5 and Alacrity were too powerful and remove both without adding any other features.

They’ll just add it to Elementalist instead of Chronomancer.

And add a bunch of damage modifiers because eles were complaining they might have to sacrifice damage for utility like the pleb classes.

GASP, the thought of an Elementalist having to do such an uncouth thing like that. Why I’ve never! clutches royal pearls

MailMail.6534:

Devs nerfing everything on Mesmer except what needs to be nerfed. Predictable.

I got news for you-it isn’t exclusive to Mesmers only.
_______________________________________________________
It’s nigh time we start holding the dev’s accountable, specifically by name.
By doing so it’s harder for them to hide behind generic terms like “team”, & “devs”.

Show them we know who’s responsible for what and we are not happy with their sub-standard work and flawed approach!

We see what’s going on. They are arbitrarily making large, drastic changes instead of small, specific tweaks in order to give them something to work on, naming it balance changes & fixes, and calling it a day for 6 months.

Odyssey.2613:

MailMail.6534:

Devs nerfing everything on Mesmer except what needs to be nerfed. Predictable.

I got news for you-it isn’t exclusive to Mesmers only.
_______________________________________________________
It’s nigh time we start holding the dev’s accountable, specifically by name.
By doing so it’s harder for them to hide behind generic terms like “team”, & “devs”.

Show them we know who’s responsible for what and we are not happy with their sub-standard work and flawed approach!

We see what’s going on. They are arbitrarily making large, drastic changes instead of small, specific tweaks in order to give them something to work on, naming it balance changes & fixes, and calling it a day for 6 months.

RIOT

Our ‘mantra’ will be-

Mantras have sunk
Now they’re totally bunk
Mirror Blade stinks
Retrieve it from the sink

Get your signs ready!

Odyssey.2613:

It’s nigh time we start holding the dev’s accountable, specifically by name.
By doing so it’s harder for them to hide behind generic terms like “team”, & “devs”.

By the same token, I think it smells that players can hide behind their account names and attack the devs or cry about each other with no accountability.

Post player real names. And possibly email. Hold players accountable for their comments, too.

(Hint: WoW tried to do this, it didn’t really end well. Now project that back onto your idea again…)

Carighan.6758:

Odyssey.2613:

It’s nigh time we start holding the dev’s accountable, specifically by name.
By doing so it’s harder for them to hide behind generic terms like “team”, & “devs”.

By the same token, I think it smells that players can hide behind their account names and attack the devs or cry about each other with no accountability.

Post player real names. And possibly email. Hold players accountable for their comments, too.

(Hint: WoW tried to do this, it didn’t really end well. Now project that back onto your idea again…)

I mean, Devs can easily hold commentors accountable. One swift perma-ban and not only can they not post on the forums anymore, but they also are out however much money they spent on that account. Hard to be held more accountable than that.

I personally just think more personal Dev correspondence would help a lot instead of the countless threads popping up with no Dev responses, then patch notes with no explanations or room for debate. Have the person who is responsible for the balance changes for each class do a QA every once and a while or maybe allow for suggestions to be sent directly to them. The issue remains that logically, the players who don’t play a class will likely outnumber those that do, and if Anet bases nerfs off what they see the majority saying, you’ll have people who don’t play the class and don’t care how it turns out deciding how that class should be balanced.

Carighan.6758:

Odyssey.2613:

It’s nigh time we start holding the dev’s accountable, specifically by name.
By doing so it’s harder for them to hide behind generic terms like “team”, & “devs”.

By the same token, I think it smells that players can hide behind their account names and attack the devs or cry about each other with no accountability.

Post player real names. And possibly email. Hold players accountable for their comments, too.

(Hint: WoW tried to do this, it didn’t really end well. Now project that back onto your idea again…)

Uh, if you ever made an E-purchase, they already have that information on us, and more.
What I said and what you suggested are two entirely different things, but I think you already know that.

Last I checked players weren’t making poor design decisions and then expecting dev’s to purchase that poor design.

While I agree with the sentiments, I don’t think correspondence should be more direct than it already is.

Online communications are a cesspool. I wouldn’t want the devs to be treated any worse than they already are. Not saying they don’t deserve constructive criticism and feedback because they deserve HEAPS & MOUNTAINS of it, but people online tend to go overboard on more than a regular basis. Some of the things I’ve even heard in regards to Rubi have just been… off-putting.

MailMail.6534:

Some of the things I’ve even heard in regards to Rubi have just been… off-putting.

Yeah, there’s been some pretty disgusting stuff. Rubi is in a tough spot. She’s an absolute and unmitigated disaster at the specialization reveals, but she’s obviously been told to do them by some higher-up at anet that doesn’t know the first thing about good public relations, so she doesn’t really have a lot of choice in the matter.

Yeah it wasn’t nice some of the stuff about Rubi, Gaille is also in a bad spot with being the name everyone associates with news whether it be good or bad.

However while specialisations and game mechanics might not be Rubi’s forté they can try to pair her up with someone who is good at this, say Grouch. Either way I blame the management of it rather than the people.

Having said that it would still be nice to at least know what dev concerns are, even if it’s just a red post in each profession forum saying “these things we thing are over performing”. Then we can at least ask for slight reductions than a flat out Chaotic Dampening or MtD nerf.

Fay.2357:

MailMail.6534:

Some of the things I’ve even heard in regards to Rubi have just been… off-putting.

Yeah, there’s been some pretty disgusting stuff. Rubi is in a tough spot. She’s an absolute and unmitigated disaster at the specialization reveals, but she’s obviously been told to do them by some higher-up at anet that doesn’t know the first thing about good public relations, so she doesn’t really have a lot of choice in the matter.

Of course. While 95% of me in gw2 is focused on Conquest PvP, the other 5% is a huge lore fan which happens to be Rubi’s actual forte. I’m an actual fan of hers! She’s not a pvper in any sense of the characterization. Do I think she enjoys doing these pvp heavy features all the time? Definitely not. Could she do a better job at faking it? Maybe. Sometimes I just wish people would leave the personal vitriol for during matches when your pug team double caps home at the start.

Fay.2357:

She’s an absolute and unmitigated disaster at the specialization reveals, but she’s obviously been told to do them by some higher-up at anet that doesn’t know the first thing about good public relations, so she doesn’t really have a lot of choice in the matter.

That’s a problem I have with ANet in general.

Someone higher up the foodchain is meddling with PR in a really bad way. It’s just needless player disappointment and aggression being generated.

I play power shatter with GS/Sw+T and while I can definitely feel the damage reduction I’m not having unreasonable difficulties in fights.

I just can’t completely destroy people in a single combo with my eyes closed anymore.

Can’t say I think that is unreasonable. Feels about right now.