Guild Wars 2

would Mesmers be over powered if illusions persisted until out of combat instead of vanishing after the target is dead?

If Clones persisted, no. Phantasms, probably. Though if Phantasms were buffed/yet limited to 1 at a time, it wouldn’t be as much of an issue.

Clones persisting would be a huge quality of life increase for us.

thinking of strictly clones.

No, they should definitely be persistent until combat ends.

illgot.1056:

thinking of strictly clones.

Yeah, they’re our main survival mechanic (and giving them up to shatter is intended to be our primary profession mechanic in general?). Having them linked to target and die seems a little… short-sighted.

I get the whole “Phantasms are hexes made real” thing, and they’re intended to rip into a target and punish it hard before it goes. Those disappearing when a target dies is fine (even though I get sad when Berserker disappears, all that AoE!). But clones? Especially since the balance to drop their damage to (almost) 0?

I just started Mesmer a few days ago and in large battles like DE I find myself constantly trying to generate momentum only to see mobs die before I can use my clones. Often my phantasms even vanish before they are put to use.

Having clones persist until out of combat would help build and retain momentum in these long but very quick battles.

I would dare say even allow players to trait into clones persisting out of combat for 30 seconds but not sure how much that can be abused.

Just shatter them.

I used to think this myself—that clones should persist for an entire fight—but now that I’ve been 80 for a few weeks I don’t think it would make that much of a difference. You can generate clones with incredible ease once you have access to a good amount of traits, and if you’re not shattering them constantly in DEs you’re missing out on a ton of AoE DPS.

Even single-clone shatters are worth doing.

Yes. Just shatter them. With traits you can have out three clones almost instantly, so having them live would make next to no difference.

In dueling you can get vigor on crits, and clones on dodge. With 50+% crit, (and over 70% with fury) you can dodge about any time you want. With your weapon clone skills on short cool down, and phantasms, it’s hard to run out. Also I got a sigil that gives full endurance when you kill an enemy, so that feeds the clone factory until everything is dead. You can start each fight with two dodges and a leap/retreat/counter > shatter if you want, and still quickly get out your phantasms and another clone.

I would agree with Agent Noun and Voodoo Tina – shatter really is the key to playing your Mesmer effectively. If you spec and trait right you will have clones and phantasms available at all times. Just shatter whenever Mind Wrack is off cool-down and you’ll do a lot better.

Well, “out of combat” is too much, but I suggested something like “die after 2~3s without target” instead of “die after 0s without target”.

And for phantasms, they should start their CD if the target changes.

wait will clones persist if I switch targets before my first target dies?

illgot.1056:

wait will clones persist if I switch targets before my first target dies?

Yes. Your clones and phantasms “stick” to targets.

I like to put clones on several different targets and shatter them—it lets you spread out your shatter effects further, or daze multiple targets with Diversion, etc. Or put one phantasm on one target and one phantasm on another to keep one target busy.

It’d be nice, but I’m not sure it’s necessary. We’re already successful with them the way they are, and we can generate so many illusions in mere seconds it’s ridiculous.

I wouldn’t mind a trait for it, maybe make it a grand master trait and call it something like Mass Hysteria

I originally wondered the same thing… then I realized there would be almost zero reason to shatter and I can already create clones faster than I can get them killed/shatter them…

I don’t think it’s necessary, I think of them like DoT’s. You put it on your target and forget about it and if the target dies, then the DoT was useful. Really, that’s all they are at heart, a fancy form of DoT.

To answer the original poster, I agree that clones should be persistent both for practicality and fun (I want to run around the map with myself by my side). Phantasms I think are just fine as they are and would be OPed if they were persistent.

The only problem I see with clones being persistent is the AI. If they were persistent, would they fall victim to the same buggy AI as the necromancer minions?

Tbh i think yes it would make us OP, some ppl allready have a hard time picking the mesmer out of the clones when you summon them infront of them imagine how it will be if they see 4 mesmers from the start of the fight. Sure it could be fun, i allready laugh a lot watching ppl runing from clone to clone :P

Yeah, I’m sort of thinking this would make us a tad OP.

I would settle for illusions lasting the entire duration of combat. That is, if you are fighting 3 mobs, just because 1st one died, any illusions on it shouldn’t just vanish – they should re-acquire one of the other targets. That would really be a good quality of life change.

I personally don’t care about the dying when the target dies thing. I shatter them too frequently for it to really matter. What I’m sorta thinking is that only our targets ought to be able to interact (ie damage them). This might make the class too 1v1 Oriented though. It’s certainly help in PvE so that they wouldn’t insta-gib in big DE with all the AoE flying around…might also make the PvP’ers and WvW’ers unhappy though. :-/

The only time dying with the target is an irritation is:

1) If the target dies within 1-2 seconds after summon (or worse, DURING summon)
2) For Zerker, if for some reason everyone decided to focus down the one mob in the pack that you used as a centerpoint for the AoE.

What I would suggest as an alternative would be that the Illusion stays up for X seconds OR the target dies, whichever is longer. Don’t make it long, maybe 5-6 seconds, and it should be fine.

Terrant.2903:

The only time dying with the target is an irritation is:

1) If the target dies within 1-2 seconds after summon (or worse, DURING summon)
2) For Zerker, if for some reason everyone decided to focus down the one mob in the pack that you used as a centerpoint for the AoE.

What I would suggest as an alternative would be that the Illusion stays up for X seconds OR the target dies, whichever is longer. Don’t make it long, maybe 5-6 seconds, and it should be fine.

I like your idea for phantasms, last 5 seconds even if target dies immediately (which happens much too often in zergs).

And my idea for clones is only while you are in combat. Once you are out of combat all clones would vanish. This way there is no Mesmer walking around with 3 clones out confusing noobs (not that it is hard to pick out the real Mesmer).

The thing about clones (and phantasms) that I think is utterly ridiculous is that they vanish if we lose sight of our target. This makes fighting skelks a SEVERE aggrivation / hazard with my Mesmer.

I target a skelk, Greatsword#2 ability. The skelk may fight the clone for a bit, but as soon as it diverts attention to me it vanishes in a poof… and my clones go right along with him. Quite often my phantasms also disappear at this point.

Someone please tell me this is a bug?

tokyoshoe.6308:

I target a skelk, Greatsword#2 ability. The skelk may fight the clone for a bit, but as soon as it diverts attention to me it vanishes in a poof… and my clones go right along with him. Quite often my phantasms also disappear at this point.

Someone please tell me this is a bug?

I’ve never had that one happen to me.

If a creature went stealth, or as the Harpies do “Fly away”, for a bit, the Clones either stand around doing nothing or switch targets a bit until the creature they are on comes out of stealth.

I’ve never had them die on me because the target stealthed temporarily.

As for OP option?

Clones I still pray will become persistant. Phantasms while would be nice, would be quite broken.

I think I would just prefer them to act the same way Phantasms do when their target runs too far out of range, they just stop and sit there (assuming you’re still near them) until a new target comes by.

If you spawn some clones on a target in PvE and it dies too fast, they will just sit there until you run too far away or spawn new ones, or even last 10 seconds. Atleast it’d be nice if you pop 3 illusions and can still use Distortion even if your target died too fast.

Agent Noun.7350:

illgot.1056:

wait will clones persist if I switch targets before my first target dies?

Yes. Your clones and phantasms “stick” to targets.

I like to put clones on several different targets and shatter them—it lets you spread out your shatter effects further, or daze multiple targets with Diversion, etc. Or put one phantasm on one target and one phantasm on another to keep one target busy.

An illusion dies when the target it was summoned against dies. For example, if you summon 3 illusions against Target A and then switch to Target B just as A is about to die, all 3 illusions will die with A and leave you with 0 for B. You will need to resummon illusions to assist with B.

tokyoshoe.6308:

The thing about clones (and phantasms) that I think is utterly ridiculous is that they vanish if we lose sight of our target. This makes fighting skelks a SEVERE aggrivation / hazard with my Mesmer.

I target a skelk, Greatsword#2 ability. The skelk may fight the clone for a bit, but as soon as it diverts attention to me it vanishes in a poof… and my clones go right along with him. Quite often my phantasms also disappear at this point.

Someone please tell me this is a bug?

I have this problem most with phantasms but not clones. It is very frustrating, especially for phants with long cooldowns.

~~~~~
As to the original topic, I have always felt this would be a logical and welcomed change. I’d prefer Illusions to function as follows when my target dies and I am still in combat:

• All but 1 clone disappears, leaving 1 clone if 1 or more exist

-AND-

• Phant persists and its recharge timer is reset on Phant target change
  -OR-
• If Phant target dies before Phant’s first attack and Phant is not shattered, Phant dies as normal and Phant summon timer is reset.

Once I have 3 clones/illusions up I shatter. Its too bad that they miss on the shatter sometimes. I wish Anet would fix this issue. I still see shatters where the clone/illusion is next to me and not the mob I have targeted and shatter with 0 damage which makes me a sad.