6-0 and shroud

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

I know I haven’t been super active on the forums in the past few years, however this is still a topic I always come back to due to the feeling of necessity that this has.

One major issue of shroud as a defensive and offensive mechanic is its limited skill bar. 5 skills limit proves that, although functional, it doesn’t lend itself well to the play style the Devs have been trying to push for the necromancer since day one. Without utility primarily, the necromancer has very little counter play in shroud. Relying on the skill swap trigger and these limited 5 skills to execute what they need. It almost becomes a buffer period in the necromancer’s strategy. Although Kills can take place in Shroud, I’ve done it multiple time, it is not optimal, even in the far superior reaper’s shroud. And I’m not talking about optimal in comparison to other professions, only compared to necromancer’s own abilities.

Shroud almost feels like a loading screen at times were I’m just waiting to get back into the combat due to its rather disconnected nature. I work very hard to work it into my strategy but even on shroud heavy builds, such as my power build, I do not prefer to be in shroud.

Preventing shroud from having the 6-0 skills does stifle the design space the necromancer has. Giving them access to those skills would allow for some unique skill design for later elite specs as well as give necromancer’s an out when in shroud rather then waiting to actually doing something. Giving necromancer as much time as possible to gain control of the situation is something they do need for shroud. As the tells in shroud and the skills themselves, although have control elements, Don’t give the necromancer much control in those situations. Rather the opposite is true, they lose control of the situation, especially if they’re forced into shroud. Which is a problem when talking about an attrition mechanic.

Healing skills: Now, the Elephant in the room is skill 6. People will always say that the necromancer being able to heal that significant amount of health in shroud is just too good. And I actually agree with you. But I’ve suggested solutions to this problem before. Still having this skill active to use, Prevent the healing from being able to trigger while in shroud. Why would we want a heal skill in shroud if we can’t use it? Well, the necromancer’s heal in shroud should act like utility. Well of blood has uses outside of its heal as a combo field and a means to heal allies. Signet of Vampirism’s passive should still trigger in shroud and its debuff would still be able to heal you like normal. Consume conditions would remove conditions. Blood Fiend is the only one in my opinion should actually heal you for its active both because its so fragile and because its active should flavorfully count as life stealing. Other than that, No healing for you in shroud. You want that you should drop out of it. But this gives the necromancer some unique play.

Utility: This is the biggest reason why anyone wants skills 6-0 in shroud. The utility skills are extremely important to the strategy of any profession. And the necromancer is no exception. Having access to this means that it would be much harder to control the movement of a necromancer through impairment and give necromancers the field control that they otherwise have outside of shroud. There is also always signets which can buff the effectiveness of the weakness that their passives sometimes seem to have. I’m not going to go too much into detail about how it should be balanced, since that isn’t for me to say. Some people might agree with the changes I’d suggest while others wouldn’t.. Often times i under shoot balance even though I often suggest sweeping changes.

Elites: The Elite skill is an interesting one. The transformations should absolutely drop the necromancer out of shroud. Although I dislike the transformations personally, and wish they had more utility with shroud, this isn’t a big deal in the long run. As for other elite skills, there isn’t much to say on this that differs from my opinion on utility. There are some benefits that i wont get into. You guys can imagine that yourself.

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Traits: One design space i’m really interested in is traits. I’ve always loved the price for power dynamic that the necromancer had in GW1 and I rather enjoy the corruptions for their flavor in harming you for great effect, as underpowered as a few of their skills currently feel. Having traits that Trigger a means to spend life force for power to me sounds like a really interesting concept to balance an actual glass cannon necromancer that trades their defenses for dark power has been something I’ve been seeking since I started this game and at the moment I’m only getting from MTG. It opens up a lot of design space for duality in the necromancer to where they can either work to cheat death or ride on the edge.

Overall. Let me know what you guys think. This topic will never go away because I’ll continue to suggest it for as long as I’m playing GW2. Even with the introduction of the reaper or another future elite spec since this will always be something holding the necromancer’s design back.

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

They should just gives us glyphs in the next elite specs that flip over like Druid and Elel glyphs do.

#randomideas

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: NeXeD.3042

NeXeD.3042

just give us traps so all the people whining for necros to get stealth can just use trapper runes. Plus a well trap build might be cool.

Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

just give us traps so all the people whining for necros to get stealth can just use trapper runes. Plus a well trap build might be cool.

They should just gives us glyphs in the next elite specs that flip over like Druid and Elel glyphs do.

#randomideas

Not really talking about elite specs. We’re looking at core necromancer and what this could do to evolve the necromancer’s strategy.

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Posted by: NeXeD.3042

NeXeD.3042

Kk I understand now you want a new ability for core necro I guess I didn’t read it right? Agreed giving necro vanilla a little rainbow sprinkles would be nice as it stands vanilla necro is outclassed by reaper solely due to the stab available on reaper

Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: Methuselah.4376

Methuselah.4376

I once suggested unique shroud skills for 6-9

I loved playing Necro from the start and the Reaper specialization was the whole reason I bought HoT. However, I do concur that there are some serious issues and yes, the developers seem to waive them aside because of SHROUD. Urgh. First off, shroud immolates in 2 seconds under focused fire, even if one takes the Soul Reaping trait. It’s absolutely nothing compared to Guardians or Warriors who can keep a decent amount of blocks going, essentially making them immune to most damage. AND they have heavy armor. I think the only way to solve this is adding Shroud utility skills. I thought of a few that might be handy:
“Your Life is Mine”
-Essentially this is the reverse of Your Soul is Mine, whereby you restore an amount of Lifeforce and for each enemy you hit you heal a certain amount of health.

Flames of Torment
-A mark. Target area is engulfed in green flames and any enemies in the area are damaged and have 5 stacks of Torment for 10 seconds or such.

Wail of the Banshee
-A hard CC, this would Daze and chill as well.

Ectoplasmic Body
-The devs keep throwing “but it’s not thematic” at us when we cry out for blocks. Well here’s a theme: the reaper becomes insubstantial as a ghost. In other words, invulnerable. 3 seconds sounds fair. And the fact that we have to access to shroud to use it is a sort of pay off.

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

I once suggested unique shroud skills for 6-9

I loved playing Necro from the start and the Reaper specialization was the whole reason I bought HoT. However, I do concur that there are some serious issues and yes, the developers seem to waive them aside because of SHROUD. Urgh. First off, shroud immolates in 2 seconds under focused fire, even if one takes the Soul Reaping trait. It’s absolutely nothing compared to Guardians or Warriors who can keep a decent amount of blocks going, essentially making them immune to most damage. AND they have heavy armor. I think the only way to solve this is adding Shroud utility skills. I thought of a few that might be handy:
“Your Life is Mine”
-Essentially this is the reverse of Your Soul is Mine, whereby you restore an amount of Lifeforce and for each enemy you hit you heal a certain amount of health.

Flames of Torment
-A mark. Target area is engulfed in green flames and any enemies in the area are damaged and have 5 stacks of Torment for 10 seconds or such.

Wail of the Banshee
-A hard CC, this would Daze and chill as well.

Ectoplasmic Body
-The devs keep throwing “but it’s not thematic” at us when we cry out for blocks. Well here’s a theme: the reaper becomes insubstantial as a ghost. In other words, invulnerable. 3 seconds sounds fair. And the fact that we have to access to shroud to use it is a sort of pay off.

The problem with this if they were going to do this it would greatly increase the required work needed for the necromancer. Because how do we do this? do we add 5 new skills attached to a new elite spec with the normal shroud? Do we just add those 5 skills to shroud as a whole and they never change? do they change?

One major issue I’m trying to address is predictability. Another is customization. If we did this it would help the predictability issue a little bit, however not quite enough. The other problem, customization doesn’t allow for people to make their own mistakes or experiment as much with shroud builds which will leave us with a similar situation of Stagnation that shroud builds tend to fall into now.

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Kk I understand now you want a new ability for core necro I guess I didn’t read it right? Agreed giving necro vanilla a little rainbow sprinkles would be nice as it stands vanilla necro is outclassed by reaper solely due to the stab available on reaper

A core change includes the reaper gaining benefit from this change. Again, you seem to be mistaking what I"m saying. I’m horribly sorry this is so confusing for you. I’ll simplify it next time so it doesn’t harm your little head.

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: NeXeD.3042

NeXeD.3042

Kk I understand now you want a new ability for core necro I guess I didn’t read it right? Agreed giving necro vanilla a little rainbow sprinkles would be nice as it stands vanilla necro is outclassed by reaper solely due to the stab available on reaper

A core change includes the reaper gaining benefit from this change. Again, you seem to be mistaking what I"m saying. I’m horribly sorry this is so confusing for you. I’ll simplify it next time so it doesn’t harm your little head.

Pretty sure they could introduce some way to change core necro without helping reaper. But my head thanks you in the meantime

Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: BlooDyliCious.5824

BlooDyliCious.5824

I never really bothered me having no utilities in shroud/reaper. But now you mention it, I want this badly. Just about every animation is already aviable in shroud, so all they gotta do is enable to utilities. I would love to have spectral armor active while in shroud, to regain lifeforce while not having to get out of it.

Then again, it would probably buff necro into meta, cant have that….

6-0 and shroud

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

I never really bothered me having no utilities in shroud/reaper. But now you mention it, I want this badly. Just about every animation is already aviable in shroud, so all they gotta do is enable to utilities. I would love to have spectral armor active while in shroud, to regain lifeforce while not having to get out of it.

Then again, it would probably buff necro into meta, cant have that….

That depends on how they balance that. And I honestly don’t think it would be that back breaking to have this. I honestly feel that some of my past suggestions involving this one might under power it.

One of my old suggestions involving this was saying that utility should cost life force. Which would be flavorful but that might be a bit too weak. On the other hand I still want that flavor somewhere for a shroud burst build.