Guild Wars 2

I have an eternal dent in my wall called “Necromancer Balance”. Its where I go to discuss the balance of our profession.

Ratphink.4751:

Heaven forbid our Elite actually be worthy of the slot.

This is actually my favorite argument against the nerf so far. Why exactly can’t Plague Form be strong, instead of “situationally OK, sort of”?

Crowlia.1987:

Chilling darkness nerfed because of Bitter Chill?

Close to wanting to demand a duration increase of the chill with the ICD.

That makes sense. looks at the dragonhunter 25 stacks vulnerability aoe trap. starts crying

Please don’t say the change to consume condition was a buff. It’s still kittened after the previous patch.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Ratphink.4751:

Heaven forbid our Elite actually be worthy of the slot.

This is actually my favorite argument against the nerf so far. Why exactly can’t Plague Form be strong, instead of “situationally OK, sort of”?

Just wait, I’m going to call it now, since the Reaper has even more access to Chill than core we’re going to see Bitter Chill get nerfed to 1 stack of vuln on a five second ICD soon after the Expansion hits because people will cry about fear inflicting chill and vuln.

EDIT: Edit due to excessive additions of kittens due to weird censoring algorithm

Gryph.8237:

Please don’t say the change to consume condition was a buff. It’s still kittened after the previous patch.

i believe this is how ANet balances Necros as a strategy tbh, otherwise how could one explain just how so kittening stupid the changes they make to Necros are? they over-nerf something, then ever so slightly buff the skill they nerfed. most clueless Necros think, “see Anet listens to us” without realizing that the main issue has not even been address and with CC it is the increase in base cd of the skill, there-by making it a non-option for builds other than Condi (which is also nerfed relative to other condi builds)
/sigh

Tim.6450:

Crowlia.1987:

Chilling darkness nerfed because of Bitter Chill?

Close to wanting to demand a duration increase of the chill with the ICD.

That makes sense. looks at the dragonhunter 25 stacks vulnerability aoe trap. starts crying

To be fair….sorta, a little salty but not much. The dragon hunter trap can be walked out of. Plague, we can at least move, plus the fact it’s chill, blind, poison AND vul. I mean we’re complaining about warrior rampage now, if that gets nerfed this probably would’ve been next on the chopping block.

And elites should have a big impact on a fight. but they shouldn’t just be “haha, I win buttons” like some are right now. But they also shouldn’t be “ehhhh, that might’ve done something”….and just my two cents, with all the changes to chill like they are making, they better give reaper’s other ways to lockdown enemies other than just chill. Same with necro.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Tim.6450:

Crowlia.1987:

Chilling darkness nerfed because of Bitter Chill?

Close to wanting to demand a duration increase of the chill with the ICD.

That makes sense. looks at the dragonhunter 25 stacks vulnerability aoe trap. starts crying

To be fair….sorta, a little salty but not much. The dragon hunter trap can be walked out of. Plague, we can at least move, plus the fact it’s chill, blind, poison AND vul. I mean we’re complaining about warrior rampage now, if that gets nerfed this probably would’ve been next on the chopping block.

And elites should have a big impact on a fight. but they shouldn’t just be “haha, I win buttons” like some are right now. But they also shouldn’t be “ehhhh, that might’ve done something”….and just my two cents, with all the changes to chill like they are making, they better give reaper’s other ways to lockdown enemies other than just chill. Same with necro.

dude are you serious? how is Plague with Chill, Blind, Poison and Vul an i win button? you are in plague and do kitten damage, so unless your teammates are there to help you take down the target those conditions don’t mean kitten and what’s to say that your target doesn’t have his own team support cleansing all your condis anyway? wow, haha.

Lol reaper nerfed into the ground before it is even released… GG Anet!

Lily.1935:

I have an eternal dent in my wall called “Necromancer Balance”. Its where I go to discuss the balance of our profession.

+1

Bhawb.7408:

Lily.1935:

I have an eternal dent in my wall called “Necromancer Balance”. Its where I go to discuss the balance of our profession.

+1

Anet is on the other size with their heads up their kitten trying to find balance. Seriously some joke has to exist with the use of the word kitten.

Still annoyed CC still has vuln. Like everyone else I’m confused about chilling darkness, has to be something reaper related I imagine though.

Not really much to say. Was more sad burning and damage hasn’t been touched at all with the class bug fixes though.

Anet, sometimes I wonder why you even bother with the Necromancers. Why don’t you just remove us already? We are MUSHROOMS for kittens sake! MUSHROOMS! And much like our breatheren the mushrooms we are squishy, immobile and we kill slowly. What did we do to deserve this? You nerfed a niche trait, fixed some bugs and taunted us removing half the drawback on CC. Meanwhile the elementalists are applying burning that ticks for 10k, the thieves have stealth more broken than Riki in low level pub games and Warriors use rampage and kills everyone. Salt is real. Get your kitten togeather Anet.

Chilling darkness is not my main problem deathly chill became useless in pve and probaly pvp. Apparantly you can’t apply chill if the stack is full meaning you can’t apply your chill on the fully stacked champions.

EDIT: bitter chill seems to work.

Odeezee.7362:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Tim.6450:

Crowlia.1987:

Chilling darkness nerfed because of Bitter Chill?

Close to wanting to demand a duration increase of the chill with the ICD.

That makes sense. looks at the dragonhunter 25 stacks vulnerability aoe trap. starts crying

To be fair….sorta, a little salty but not much. The dragon hunter trap can be walked out of. Plague, we can at least move, plus the fact it’s chill, blind, poison AND vul. I mean we’re complaining about warrior rampage now, if that gets nerfed this probably would’ve been next on the chopping block.

And elites should have a big impact on a fight. but they shouldn’t just be “haha, I win buttons” like some are right now. But they also shouldn’t be “ehhhh, that might’ve done something”….and just my two cents, with all the changes to chill like they are making, they better give reaper’s other ways to lockdown enemies other than just chill. Same with necro.

dude are you serious? how is Plague with Chill, Blind, Poison and Vul an i win button? you are in plague and do kitten damage, so unless your teammates are there to help you take down the target those conditions don’t mean kitten and what’s to say that your target doesn’t have his own team support cleansing all your condis anyway? wow, haha.

I’m mainly just trying to play devil’s advocate to try and understnad anet’s way of thinking. So bare with me.

You’re applying chill, blind, poison and vulnerability every second while in plague form. 3 stacks of vul per chill. That will add up pretty quick. In addition their attacks will not be hitting you or your allies. As far as group cleansing, it’d still take a good bit to try and keep up with the amount of conditions you’d be putting out in a wide area, and you’re tanky as heck in plague form already. Now they can also port or use a movement ability to get out of range of your plague form, but that can put them in a worse situation. It’s not really an “I Win” button in the sense that it will gurantee you the kill, but I can see how strong it can be for teamfights, shame i never thought to try it before it was patched. Ah well.

But again, this is considering a bunch of factors, and you never know what Anet is really thinking when it comes to these balance updates, so they might not have even done it because of plague form.

Tim.6450:

Chilling darkness is not my main problem deathly chill/bitter chill became useless in pve and probaly pvp. Apparantly you can’t apply chill if the stack is full meaning you can’t apply your chill on the fully stacked champions.

It should still proc the vuln on bitter chill whenever you apply regardless of the chill stack cap.

spoj.9672:

Tim.6450:

Chilling darkness is not my main problem deathly chill/bitter chill became useless in pve and probaly pvp. Apparantly you can’t apply chill if the stack is full meaning you can’t apply your chill on the fully stacked champions.

It should still proc the vuln on bitter chill whenever you apply regardless of the chill stack cap.

I think you’re right. Tested and it and got 18 stacks at some point and opened with chillblains.

spoj.9672:

Tim.6450:

Chilling darkness is not my main problem deathly chill/bitter chill became useless in pve and probaly pvp. Apparantly you can’t apply chill if the stack is full meaning you can’t apply your chill on the fully stacked champions.

It should still proc the vuln on bitter chill whenever you apply regardless of the chill stack cap.

It only procs when you chill someone, and if the chill does not happen due to the cap it does not proc.

I tested this on a invulnerable golem with bitter chill traited and the chill sigil on dagger 1. You get three stacks of vuln per chill, I never got past 15 vuln from this alone.

From my perspective, the nerf to mobility reduction from chill and cripple was a lot worse. Still, it seems like Necromancer gets an awful lot of balance tweaks.

Do Engineer’s grenades still do extra damage when thrown just behind a target?

I saw nothing huge impacting Ele’s burn stacking though it did lose some power.

Evenna.2519:

spoj.9672:

Tim.6450:

Chilling darkness is not my main problem deathly chill/bitter chill became useless in pve and probaly pvp. Apparantly you can’t apply chill if the stack is full meaning you can’t apply your chill on the fully stacked champions.

It should still proc the vuln on bitter chill whenever you apply regardless of the chill stack cap.

It only procs when you chill someone, and if the chill does not happen due to the cap it does not proc.

I tested this on a invulnerable golem with bitter chill traited and the chill sigil on dagger 1. You get three stacks of vuln per chill, I never got past 15 vuln from this alone.

The sigil has 10 second ICD. Thats not the most accurate method of testing. Also bitter chill has 8 second vuln. So it will fall off if you arent fast enough with chill combos. Not sure exactly what sources you used to test. But if you were slow you can miss out on vuln.

Best way to test would be for someone else to max cap the chill and then you test bitter chill on it. If it applies vuln then bitter chill always works. As it should.

Ill test this tomorrow if i remember.

1 Vulnerability = 1 ‰ extra damage. I get soooo excited seeing that symbol. Now, give me 10 or 25 in an instant…

Cogbyrn.7283:

Ratphink.4751:

Heaven forbid our Elite actually be worthy of the slot.

This is actually my favorite argument against the nerf so far. Why exactly can’t Plague Form be strong, instead of “situationally OK, sort of”?

I started a thread about Necros needing new elites. Lets make some noise because our elites generally suck. They have decent situation use at best.

Nice to see Dhuumfire got fixed, and that Mark of Evasion went in-combat only. I think the change to Plague will make it much more useable. (Plague Sending springs to mind, but even allied cleansing or a not-yet-triggered Putrid Mark could do the trick.) Adding an ICD to Chilling Darkness is so incredibly lolwut that I have no idea why it’s still a trait at that 2s chill duration. (The only meaningful uses for it before now were based on pulsing blinds. Or Sigil of Mischief) Last Rites looks like a response to the “Permanently downed team in PvP” edge case brought up earlier (I don’t think it was a widespread issue, but glad to see it averted)

Edit: Guys I figured it out. The ICD on chilling darkness is so that you can avoid the self-inflicted blind & chill on Consume Conditions when you have Master of Corruption selected. Just use a different skill to blind someone right within 5 seconds of your heal, and it’s great! Just like needing to burn a transfer every time you use a corruption! :V

Except CC’s self-inflicted blind never inflicted chill (and subsequently more vuln) even when traited with Bitter Chill and Chilling Darkness. I remember testing this after the patch went live on the 23rd.

Eh… the nerf about chills / cripples not slowing down movement skills wasn’t the best but keep in mind people used to be able to travel 33% farther when they had swiftness (or 50% farther with super speed)… so it was a nerf from both sides.

Chilling Darkness was probably nerfed because of Reaper. If you had something like Parasitic Contagion and your Plague hit 5 people… you would be unstoppable. You’d get so much HP it would be insane (or even Bitter Chill + Chilling Darkness + Deathly Chill). On the other hand, with the movement skill change, people could easily just leap away or teleport away from the Plague even if it could perma-chill so there’s that too.

Plague is far from a useless elite and it’s very nice that it got only 1 bleed now as opposed to a poop-ton. If you use Plague Sending it’s very likely that the bleed will be transferred and plague will be as it once was.

I agree that a 5-sec internal cooldown is a bit much, but if you used Grenth Runes you could still bring the chill pretty high but it wouldn’t be AoE anymore… and it basically loses almost all synergy with Plague which kinda sucks. I thought all the signet Necros used Plague Sending anyway..

These changes they make to the necromancer are getting ridiculous. Once you get a build that works in one aspect of the game, they nerf it and you have to buy new runes, armor sets and trinkets. I still got my divinity rune set on, because i have no idea what runes i should get when every build is nerfed once i get working runeset. Now i have trashed consume conditions for good, even tho they buffed it, but the trait makes it useless.

All in all, if they keep spanking our butts like this, it seems we have no choice but play with another class. When they stop seeing necromancer at all, they finally understand what they have done. I am saddened by the lack of necromancer improvements in Guild Wars 2 since i loved necromancer in Guild Wars 1. Necromancer has a lot of potential to be a playable class, but incompetent class devs ruins it.

did they ever explain why they removed group utility from staff #4? Everytime I try to enjoy my necro nerfs unexpectedly ruin it.

Vizardlorde.8243:

did they ever explain why they removed group utility from staff #4? Everytime I try to enjoy my necro nerfs unexpectedly ruin it.

Because it was an undeniably INCREDIBLY overpowered skill. Not to justify the severity or method with which they nerfed it, but it was a full condition transfer from up to 5 people, an AoE Plague Signet, it deserved a nerf, just not the one they gave it.

Bhawb.7408:

Vizardlorde.8243:

did they ever explain why they removed group utility from staff #4? Everytime I try to enjoy my necro nerfs unexpectedly ruin it.

Because it was an undeniably INCREDIBLY overpowered skill. Not to justify the severity or method with which they nerfed it, but it was a full condition transfer from up to 5 people, an AoE Plague Signet, it deserved a nerf, just not the one they gave it.

they couldve just added a limit per person and not make it self only.

spoj.9672:

Evenna.2519:

spoj.9672:

Tim.6450:

Chilling darkness is not my main problem deathly chill/bitter chill became useless in pve and probaly pvp. Apparantly you can’t apply chill if the stack is full meaning you can’t apply your chill on the fully stacked champions.

It should still proc the vuln on bitter chill whenever you apply regardless of the chill stack cap.

It only procs when you chill someone, and if the chill does not happen due to the cap it does not proc.

I tested this on a invulnerable golem with bitter chill traited and the chill sigil on dagger 1. You get three stacks of vuln per chill, I never got past 15 vuln from this alone.

The sigil has 10 second ICD. Thats not the most accurate method of testing. Also bitter chill has 8 second vuln. So it will fall off if you arent fast enough with chill combos. Not sure exactly what sources you used to test. But if you were slow you can miss out on vuln.

Best way to test would be for someone else to max cap the chill and then you test bitter chill on it. If it applies vuln then bitter chill always works. As it should.

Ill test this tomorrow if i remember.

Tested this. Was really easy with an icebow. Cast frost fan once in melee and you hit with 7 chilling projectiles. It caps on the 5th projectile but you get 21 vuln from a single cast. I got 24 vuln instantly because i had sigil of ice equipped as well.

So yes bitter chill still works regardless of chill cap.

Arg, I was really enjoying my chill spam in plague.

Why must you take my happiness Anet?!

What’s Anet have against their necros being legit? Finally, Anet makes it fun to run a non-Condistack Necro and Anet nerfs it! Every other class has a sustainable, solo build that’s feared and respected. Necro… what a joke. We are too diverse a class to be forced into a one-trick pony playstyle. If i wanted that, i’d go perma-invis Thief. Anyone so scared to have a squishy necro spamming chillblind on them that they have to complain needs to get off their wussy perma-invis class and try a real challenge for a change! #fixmynecro