Guild Wars 2

I’ve decided to level a necro and am having an absolute blast with the class. I enjoy stacking huge AOE bleed stacks and other conditions on mobs and watch them drop like flies. In fact, I haven’t felt this powerful in PvE with either my mesmer or guardian, both of whom I leveled to 80.

But I also PvP a lot. I run the immortal mesmer build almost exclusively and I’ve played against some awesome necros who inspired me to pick up the class.

But lately I’ve been hearing a lot about how necros suck 1v1 in sPvP and in WvW. I know they’re great in team fights…but I can’t help it. Unless I can hold my own in 1v1 situations I just don’t feel good about myself. I don’t want to travel with a zerg in WvW and if I can’t roam with security on my necro I’ll just feel I made a horrible class choice.

Specifically threads like this one dishearten me since it seems that thieves can gank you and I know that they’re very common roamers in WvW.

With my mesmer build, I don’t fear thieves at all. At all. I’ve soloed a thief and guardian, a guardian and ele, and two thieves in separate encounters and come out on top. For me to feel that my necro will be powerless 1v1 against a thief is really a blow to my self image! I haven’t leveled my necro to 80 yet (I fully intend to) and till that time I’m keeping her out of both WvW as well as sPvP and tPvP. I like to learn to play a class well in PvE before trying them out in advanced play.

But like I said…I’m a bit sad. I want to know this – how much of it is truth, and how much is myth?

All things (including skill levels) being equal, can a necro stand up to a thief?

Some people are going to say that thieves will always win, others will say necros always win, and unless you already know the answer, chances are you won’t actually be able to tell who is right.

In reality, if you are holding all gear/situation/skill, etc equal, it comes down to builds and chance. My minion build can completely destroy burst thief builds, yet PD thieves and sometimes SB thieves will destroy me. I have other builds that can handle PD thieves really well, but get pooped on by full burst builds.

It just comes down to whose build counters the others, and if anyone gets a lucky move off.

bhagwad.4281:

All things (including skill levels) being equal, can a necro stand up to a thief?

If both players being equal skill level, no. Obviously a skilled necro will beat a bad thief, but an average thief will still give a good necro a hard fight. I’ve killed a lot of the so called “pro” necromancers in spvp on my thief. Granted, they had really good reaction times and I wouldn’t call them bad, but its not really a challenge for me fighting a necromancer as a thief. They just go down way to easily and lack any kind of avoidance what so ever. Mesmers on the other hand, god they’re hard to fight on any class.

Even though thieves have low base HP, they have a lot of tools to escape and negate a lot of what you can do to them. Especially conditions. ANet has said that necromancers are supposed to face tank everything by design and win by attrition. On paper, this might look like it works, but in practice, it fails horribly because necromancers do not have any tools to attrition fight.

Page 3 of this thread has excellent points on why made by a poster named Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/ATTRITION-A-discussion/page/3#post1687192

I kill a very high percent of thieves I encounter while roaming in wvw. Some people feel that Necros can’t roam, but I roam solo regularly with a condition build and I do just fine. But if you read these forums, apparently it’s not even possible. I don’t know where all these super thieves are, but I’m not encountering them on t1.

Unlike how I feel with any other toon, debatably OP profession or not, I never feel as useful in evey situation as I do with my necro. From 1v1s to Zerg fights to sieges, you can do it all. Get a good build ( Nemesis’ fear build is a good place to start) and you should be fine.

Don’t listen to the naysayers, this class has a huge amount of strengths that aren’t often talked about and it isn’t as weak as people will make it out to be.

I have zero problems with thieves in tier1 wvw. With a pet build my toughness is 3k, buffs from food 28k health, and close to 3.700 power with BIP.

Actually it was kind of funny when I switched to pets in wvw couple days ago. First person that took after me was a thief. I beat the living kittens out of him.

Roe.3679:

I kill a very high percent of thieves I encounter while roaming in wvw. Some people feel that Necros can’t roam, but I roam solo regularly with a condition build and I do just fine. But if you read these forums, apparently it’s not even possible. I don’t know where all these super thieves are, but I’m not encountering them on t1.

Unlike how I feel with any other toon, debatably OP profession or not, I never feel as useful in evey situation as I do with my necro. From 1v1s to Zerg fights to sieges, you can do it all. Get a good build ( Nemesis’ fear build is a good place to start) and you should be fine.

Don’t listen to the naysayers, this class has a huge amount of strengths that aren’t often talked about and it isn’t as weak as people will make it out to be.

Thanks, I’ll look into the fear build. I was going for pure conditions, but let’s give this a whirl! Won’t find out for a while till I reach 80 of course. But good to know that many necros things 1v1 with thieves is not a walkover.

bhagwad.4281:

But lately I’ve been hearing a lot about how necros suck 1v1 in sPvP and in WvW. I know they’re great in team fights…but I can’t help it. Unless I can hold my own in 1v1 situations I just don’t feel good about myself. I don’t want to travel with a zerg in WvW and if I can’t roam with security on my necro I’ll just feel I made a horrible class choice.

I can feel you, I really can. Im pretty much in the same boat. One of my classes is a d/d ele, and once you are used to that, going back to my necro is just too painful.

necros are very strong 1on1 against pretty much everything, but solo or small group roaming means most of all mobility. if you run with 3 ppl and see 10-15 coming towards you, you run. and necro cant do that, simple as that. necros only downside is mobility, and sadly thats too much of a downside for me personally in www.

bhagwad.4281:

Roe.3679:

I kill a very high percent of thieves I encounter while roaming in wvw. Some people feel that Necros can’t roam, but I roam solo regularly with a condition build and I do just fine. But if you read these forums, apparently it’s not even possible. I don’t know where all these super thieves are, but I’m not encountering them on t1.

Unlike how I feel with any other toon, debatably OP profession or not, I never feel as useful in evey situation as I do with my necro. From 1v1s to Zerg fights to sieges, you can do it all. Get a good build ( Nemesis’ fear build is a good place to start) and you should be fine.

Don’t listen to the naysayers, this class has a huge amount of strengths that aren’t often talked about and it isn’t as weak as people will make it out to be.

Thanks, I’ll look into the fear build. I was going for pure conditions, but let’s give this a whirl! Won’t find out for a while till I reach 80 of course. But good to know that many necros things 1v1 with thieves is not a walkover.

You will get trainwrecked in WvWvW by a decent thief before you gear up. The big issue people complain about is the inability to see one until it smacks you on the head due to stealth and culling. Anet is well aware of it and fixing it.

Here is my theory with thieves. If I can force a fight reset than I win. If they run I win. If I kill them, than I win. The only way they can win is if I die. Since I have played against thieves for some time, there are some really really good ones that are impossible to kill especially in wvwvw. However, don’t be disheartened, I get trainwrecked by certain mesmer builds, and still don’t like playing as a mesmer.

The biggest thing that confuses people is that they want us to be a high mobility solo class, and we aren’t. We are best in groups of 5 or more where we can fully utilize our strengths and cover up our weaknesses.

How to defeat thieves in WvW: Get a friend so you don’t get ganked.

Solves all your problems. WvW is a huuuge area, running around solo is just asking for it honestly.

Running condition build I don’t have much trouble with all but the best of the thieves, which aren’t most of them. That is if they stay and fight. The annoying thing is the smart thieves that aren’t necessarily great, but still smart. They will run away before you kill them and try to come back at you several times. This is where Necro can be frustrating (hard to get away from… riiiight) because you can in effect beat the same thief 3 or 4 times yet he doesn’t die. Yet if he gets you to make a mistake only once, he wins for real, and you are running.

If you can put up with them getting multiple chances on you, then go for it. Just know that the tables aren’t exactly even.

Sometimes I like to use their own strategy against them. Which is to run away. Now as a Necro we can’t actually get away speed wise from a thief, but we can drop so much crap behind us as we run, that they will be severely wounded if they want to catch up. I’ve suckered many thieves this way, ran until I see their health dropping real low from my marks and other AoE, then turn around and gank them.

A mesmer is way easier to 1-1 than a necro – thats a given, I’ve played both a fair amount in wvwvw. A a necro can still solo, its just not our particular strength. However, portal aside, you can do a lot more stuff than a mesmer can, with conditions and aoe damage in large scale pvp. Necro is about ruling zergs not individuals.

I dont worry about 1-1 in wvwvw, it is like 1% of the action I see if that. You can easily build to survive long enough to turn it into a 2-1, 3-1 or whatever you want, or just hit plague form and just mosey on down to wherever you were going.

While it’s true Necros don’t have an awesome 1v1 build, most popular necro builds do pretty well vs glass cannon dagger thieves as long as you have life force. Perhaps tell us your build, the thief build you are having issues with, and then we can help you. Without those details nobody can help you.

1v1 builds are pretty pointless at the end of the day. Perma-stealth thieves abusing blinding powder → heartseeker stealth stacking + stealth regen/condition removal traits and BM rangers beats everything else in duels pretty much.

If you want your necro to be some sort of solo roaming juggernaut I’m sorry to say that isn’t possible. If you want to do that pick a class specifically for that purpose (thief or ele).

This just in – OP exclusively plays overpowered classes, tries underpowered class and is now concerned about future ability to mindlessly faceroll other classes.

Makade.8042:

This just in – OP exclusively plays overpowered classes, tries underpowered class and is now concerned about future ability to mindlessly faceroll other classes.

first post here in weeks to make me lol

so good!

Relax, it’s a role-playing game after all. If you want a completely level playing field then Rocket Arena 3 would be more your speed The fact is certain builds will always have a natural advantage over others, but it’s a small enough gap that it can be bridged by superior player skill.

I don’t share your fear of thieves though, I don’t really have trouble dealing with them when I’m playing a conditionmancer. Unless all my cooldowns are recharging and I have no life force, then I’m a free kill, but that would be the case against any class. Bunker elementalists are the class I can’t beat personally, they just clear those conditions off so quickly!

But otoh classes like Guardians who can normally stand up against 2 opponents will absolutely melt after one Corrupt Boon from you.

Makade.8042:

This just in – OP exclusively plays overpowered classes, tries underpowered class and is now concerned about future ability to mindlessly faceroll other classes.

I’m the OP and this was pretty funny

I play a tanky spec so thieves normally run away after they realize that they cant burst me down in 3 seconds. Its usually focus 5, focus 4, axe 3, axe 2, dagger 3, dagger 1 spam, wh 4 if they want to heal. Fear them when they fear you. I run wells apply protection and so if they insist on attacking you just use one well at a time and most will disengage long enough for you to get a heal off.

Mesmers and D/D Eles on the other hand are actually tough to 1v1.

In WvW the Necro really shines in larger groups where we can cause large-scale chaos. However, we can hold our own 1v1 just don’t expect to be Guardian-like when you do it; its not as simple and straight-forward, it takes a little more finesse. And that’s ok, because they can’t spread mass-conditions across a zerg.

I also agree that we do quite well in smaller groups. I especially prefer to group with anyone who can front-line for us to finish off the enemies we throw conditions on. A Greatsword Guardian who pulls enemies into a tight group…yummy.