Guild Wars 2

I have a tank necro that works really well for me in PvE and overall the new traits are going to improve it, but something that really bugs me is I feel forced to take the Soul Reaping specialization for a single trait, Vital Persistence.

For a tank build you really need that trait. I’m not really interested in the rest of the specialization though. I think I could get more interesting stuff in another trait line but without the slower life force drain, my build will have much less survivability so I feel forced into this line.

I mean if my life force pool is 15k, it drains at 600 per second so the trait prevents 300 drain per second. That’s 300 more health per second I have that enemies have to deal with. That is a huge amount of health that one trait basically gives you.

I don’t like being forced into the whole specialization for one trait. Some other traits in there are worth using but I’d like to also try other specializations. However, Vital Persistence alone makes it clearly mandatory for my build and probably every necro build.

In my opinion shroud should just drain at 2% per second instead of 4% per second and the trait shouldn’t exist. There are plenty of interesting bonuses you can add to shroud by taking this specialization, but even if you don’t, shroud is core to necro gameplay for general survival. With the base 4% drain it’s just not good enough. So you need this specialization to get the core necro gameplay to function properly.

That’s just not right. One specialization shouldn’t be mandatory for all builds.

Are you arguing that Vital Persistence should be baseline?

I believe he is, and ill support it all the way.

Malchior.1928:

Are you arguing that Vital Persistence should be baseline?

Yes.

It’s not mandatory. You can be tanky without running vital persistence.

Soul Reaping is actually a very good diverse line that you can use both for survivability and damage. But 300hp worth of life force a second is hardly a good enough reason on its own to invest in Soul Reaping in PvE, since life force generation is so over the top in this game mode that you barely should have any problem managing your life force pool without this trait.

I’m kinda sad that I have to choose between Fear of Death and Vital Persistence in PvP.

Burjis.3087:

Soul Reaping is actually a very good diverse line that you can use both for survivability and damage. But 300hp worth of life force a second is hardly a good enough reason on its own to invest in Soul Reaping in PvE, since life force generation is so over the top in this game mode that you barely should have any problem managing your life force pool without this trait.

I’m kinda sad that I have to choose between Fear of Death and Vital Persistence in PvP.

If my particular build is only in that trait line for one trait, there’s a problem.

I’m saying that this trait is not really worth taking an entire trait line for. Honestly, you don’t need it for PvE.

Burjis.3087:

I’m saying that this trait is not really worth taking an entire trait line for. Honestly, you don’t need it for PvE.

It’s not a matter of need, it’s a matter of what is best.

Khristophoros.7194:

Burjis.3087:

I’m saying that this trait is not really worth taking an entire trait line for. Honestly, you don’t need it for PvE.

It’s not a matter of need, it’s a matter of what is best.

Then stop playing a “tank” in PvE.

Vital Persistence isn’t mandatory or even really good for PvP Bunker, the only place where “tanking” is even useful. If you were going to attempt to max out mitigation for some ridiculous reason Curses would be better by far for PvE anyways. This isn’t a problem with the line, just your build.

Linnael.1069:

Khristophoros.7194:

Burjis.3087:

I’m saying that this trait is not really worth taking an entire trait line for. Honestly, you don’t need it for PvE.

It’s not a matter of need, it’s a matter of what is best.

Then stop playing a “tank” in PvE.

Vital Persistence isn’t mandatory or even really good for PvP Bunker, the only place where “tanking” is even useful. If you were going to attempt to max out mitigation for some ridiculous reason Curses would be better by far for PvE anyways. This isn’t a problem with the line, just your build.

My build works really well so I have to disregard your opinion, sorry. You seem to be coming from the assumption that I’m not successful with it. That is completely the opposite of what is happening. I’m just bothered because I feel like one trait is too important.

Khristophoros.7194:

Linnael.1069:

Khristophoros.7194:

Burjis.3087:

I’m saying that this trait is not really worth taking an entire trait line for. Honestly, you don’t need it for PvE.

It’s not a matter of need, it’s a matter of what is best.

Then stop playing a “tank” in PvE.

Vital Persistence isn’t mandatory or even really good for PvP Bunker, the only place where “tanking” is even useful. If you were going to attempt to max out mitigation for some ridiculous reason Curses would be better by far for PvE anyways. This isn’t a problem with the line, just your build.

My build works really well so I have to disregard your opinion, sorry. You seem to be coming from the assumption that I’m not successful with it. That is completely the opposite of what is happening. I’m just bothered because I feel like one trait is too important.

I couldn’t care less whether you’re successful with it or not. You can be successful butt naked in PvE, or honestly alot of PvP for that matter. I’m not going to judge you on how you play. If you’re having fun good for you.

But when you want to talk about competitive balance decisions, when you want to talk “about what is best”, you need to face some facts first.

Join the club, my old build was 1, 2, 5, 0, 6 as a well bomber, and I am now forced into taking 3 full lines. I can compensate a bit with some of the changes, but in the end I will lose something.

That is not such a big deal as I will gain much more than I lose with the integration of traits, so in this case I am happy. However CC will still suck.

Khristophoros.7194:

Burjis.3087:

Soul Reaping is actually a very good diverse line that you can use both for survivability and damage. But 300hp worth of life force a second is hardly a good enough reason on its own to invest in Soul Reaping in PvE, since life force generation is so over the top in this game mode that you barely should have any problem managing your life force pool without this trait.

I’m kinda sad that I have to choose between Fear of Death and Vital Persistence in PvP.

If my particular build is only in that trait line for one trait, there’s a problem.

So by this logic if i wanted to go into a line for just one trait that my build needed but i didnt want anything else thats a problem?

Just sounds like " I cant have all the cake and eat it" QQ not going to lie.

Burjis is correct. For my sustain builds, I drop Soul Reaping in PvE and go for more added team support. There’s usually enough trash that your LF generation is near 100%. So things like Soul Marks and Vital Persistence aren’t needed. Now, that’s current PvE with the current trait system.

If Anet somehow makes end-game HoT content very hard to the point where it would be much easier for us Necros to take PvP/WvW Roamer lf gen builds, then SR will be the way to go. For example, if there became areas where you had to defend in a small space from incoming hoards of mobs that shred a team or zerg (if open world) apart, then having Vital Persistence to eek out every advantage of shroud may be nice.

With the extra trait points, sustain builds should be looking at Death Perception for power and Dhuumfire for condi as a reason to take SR in PvE. Might as well spec for more DPS too if you’re building “tanky.”

Which leads us to what Linnael is talking about. Building tanky for the sake of being tanky is a bad idea in current PvE. For the most part it’s not needed especially if a team is doing very well. In that case it’s useless. I used to build my sustain builds and play them as “tanks” in PvE up until about 2 years ago, until I noticed that’s not a winning playstyle running up to mobs and facetanking. Playing skillfully with tanky gear while adding group soft/active support is much better. By being able to weather high pressure moments and being able to position your support correctly, you can be life saver. However, it’s best to leave your sustain armor in your inventory while you equip DPS gear/builds until there’s a serious sign of trouble (or for certain PvE situations like specific Fractals moments where being able to take hits makes advancing much easier and faster).

Things may chance in HoT though. First of all Anet has come out and said that:

a) They’re not really implementing Dungeon/Fractal-like content
b) It’s mainly going to be all open world
c) They’re aiming for the hardest PvE content yet.

As I always say, if the Silverwastes is anything to go by and is just a taste of what’s to come, there will be a place in HoT for sustain builds. For the mere fact that it plays a lot like WvW and the events on that map have too much pressure for most glass cannon toons to handle alone, where tankier builds can solo clear a lot of the time more easily. For the most part it won’t likely not matter what you run until World Bosses.

The changes to BM that make Necros basically revive masters will be wanted for sure in most/all open world. Being able to teleport downed toons out of harms way and revive them 2% per Life Transfer tick (18% total). Even Life From Death’s 5-7% revival is useful. It wouldn’t hurt to build sustain via healing power and increase the power of Transfusion’s and Life from Death’s normal heals for added support.

Tanky Healing Power Gear + Last Rites + Transfusion + Ritual of Life + Vital Persistence + Life from Death + Reviving people in Death Shroud + Unholy Sanctuary + Signet of Undeath = Ultimate Combat Medic.

Shroud does have it’s problems and I believe slower degen would be nice, in addition to faster lf regen and better scaling mechanics with numerous enemies. My reasons though aren’t for PvE, but WvW/SPvP.

With the new specializations, you may be able to get away from vital persistence by equipping unholy martyr from blood magic and the new and improved shrouded removal in death magic. Take a condition, get the life force, and then remove it. This does mean that you rely on your allies a bit more, but then again, they will have good support from you!

Vanilla version: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBrAR4A7w~

Reaper version: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQG1AR4A7w~

I’m totally fine with the life force drain part of vital persistence being baseline. It’s the least they could do…