A few much needed condition based buffs
Not gonna happen.
A few notes on my intended implementation.
Deathly chill, ought to have a 5 sec internal CD. With 3 stacks of torment for 5 sec. So a person with no duration investment can add 3 torment stacks… but a person with capped duration investment can have 6.
Dumfries applying to the 2 also gives a condition reaper a reason (other than a gap closer) to press it. Although the duration on the burn may have to be reduced to balance this.
Spectral grasp… is underused and we need a reason to use it… it feels like a natural fit with reaper, especially if my other changes are considered. Chill, torment, and yet more torment and pull? Sign me up.
Rise! Would get a permanent place in the viper horror build.
And plague form, taking conditions, but not transferring them is the balance to being able to hand out huge stacks. Doing it, will almost kill you, unless you drop back out and cleanse yourself… which works beautifully withe consume conditions… another corruption skill.
Synergy, synergy, synergy
Not gonna happen.
Yes your probably right… but before I posted the odds were 0. Now they are greater than 0… because now it’s possible a developer may actually read them and bring it up in a design meeting… unlikely? Yes. Impossible? No.
No reason not to discuss if the community likes the concepts.
Not saying that condition necro is in a good place but it is alot better then power necro. There is a reason why almost all of our meta builds are condi builds.
I dont want skills like spectral grasp or rise to be pigeonholed into condition builds.
And your dhuumfire buff is not thought out at all. The shroud traits always have to take all our shrouds (death and reaper) into consideration. reaper 2 is a mulithit attack while death 2 is a 1 hit attack. Dhuumfire is already bad in deathshroud dont make it worse just because you think it isnt good enough on reaper shroud.
I’m just being honest, sorry I usually don’t post worthless short replies like that lol.
Ok so first off, we’ve asked for torment before, they’re repeatedly rejected the notion. So any requests to get us more torment is likely gonna sit in a trash bin somewhere to the devs. Really though, we’ve asked for more torment and suggested it as such for many years. In HoT they didn’t give us more torment, they gave us chill. Which, was very very cool, but then they took it away.
Also I don’t see devs buffing our condi at the moment. Devs don’t seem to know what they want to do with us, but one thing for certain, they do not seem want to make condi any stronger for us. Our “meta” at the moment is already our condi builds, and as-is people are still complaining about necros mainly due to our corrupt boons abilities.
If anything they would slightly adjust some useless skills on weapons and traits that people don’t use. They may finally bump up our protection a lil bit after this pvp season, where players of other classes even openly stated we needed help. If it wasn’t for scrapper’s reviving capabilities, necros wouldn’t exist in the pro tourney.
Anyways, I would love more torment. But for some strange reasons Anet just wouldn’t give us more torment. I don’t see that changing anytime soon really.
no cooldown on deathly chill. thats how i feel If the buff is too strong that it needs a cooldown i don’t like it
rise these minion main use is to tank and asborb damage. I’d remove the need for the pets to attack and revert the nerf to their defense and hit point. If you want minions to apply more condition damage I would put it on one of the vanilla minions.
spectral grasp has major mechanical problems with its aiming. The condition I don’t think is need the “pull” effect isn’t really needed with the necromancer current toolbox. Except on greatsword…. which sucks
Not gonna happen.
Yes your probably right… but before I posted the odds were 0. Now they are greater than 0… because now it’s possible a developer may actually read them and bring it up in a design meeting… unlikely? Yes. Impossible? No.
No reason not to discuss if the community likes the concepts.
I agree with gavyne, it’s not gonna happen.
Few reasons :
- Bleed is a necro thing while torment belong essentially to revenant. Necro access to torment is abysmal (at best)
- I’m pretty sure a few people here would hate your solution which is more of a nerf than anything because any god d*** ICD make traits totally worthless.
- What you seem to look for is some sort of condi burst and terror make any new way to condi burst out of question since it’s bound to be exploited and when this kind of things is exploited tears flow in PvP.
- plague form like lich form need to be reworked the same way they reworked guardian’s tome.
- dhumfire apply to shroud skill #2 : here you caught me of guard with the über buff that give so much to reaper shroud that it’s scary. Just no to broken buff like these.
- Spectral grasp only need to get rid of the fact that it’s a projectile and move way faster than it move actually. It’s a spectral thingy how the hell do a ghostly thing be a projectile?
- Rise! is supposed to be a defensive skill. If minion had to inflict some sort of condition we would not have had a brand new minion created just for this skill.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
Yeah, after reading these posts the duhmfire idea was trash. I didn’t think it through.
So far as a minion dealing condis… the torment on auto would probably be better served on bone minions. Or shadow fiend.
Spectral grasp definitely needs a buff… but I may not have suggested the right buff.
I disagree about ICD’so making traits worthless. A trait with an ICD can apply more than 1 stack of condis, allowing for bursts, rather than one long stack.
As for fear being the burst condi… I like it alot, love it even. But if your using it for damage, then you don’t have it for break bars when you need it… also, the damage on fear trait competes for the corruption skill trait… which makes you have to weigh them against eachother. If they moved it to a different tier so we could have both traits, it would go a long way.
I do really like my proposed solution for plague for however. But if not that solution, then we need SOME solution for applying 2 long duration powerful condis to yourself, with no way to drop them in a long duration transform. Also, if your using corruption skills, you will have already used your transfers, and they will be on CD when you get out of plague.
Basically, the only time to use plague is in wvw zerg v zerg, and then only to secure a stomp and blind spam.
Although I like the idea of drawing condis to yourself then having a pulsing condi aplication… the idea of “condi dump/transfer in plague form” is needed, in some form or other.
Another way to fix deathly chill… is to allow chill to stack intensity. Then it can get a damage component base for everyone, scaling on power (like sigil of hydromancy does…. dmg only on application) then have deathly chill make its damage scale on condition damage, and add a damage over time component. Then it’s damage output would be more like that of confuse, medium burst on application, followed by a weak damage tick over time. This would allow the 5,4, RS combo to “overstay chill” and do a big burst, making RS work as I assume it was intended.
First icd are tool like any other but just like any other tool you need to apply it in the right context icd’s have ruined traits as much as balanced them. In this case an icd on chill application seems like a very inapropriate move. You put an icd on a very specific trigger itself which I consider overkill. The only excessive case of chill application lie within the shroud on very specific and obvious skills/combos all on a cooldown of 30 seconds.
For plague, there is an easy solution for that: just remove the stupid self application condis. In fact remove them from all the corruption skills and MoC (which is the most backwards designed trait ever) a good buff for condi AND power.
Also stack intensity for chill is again not a good idea in my opinion because chill is not designed to be stacked.
EverythingOP
First icd are tool like any other but just like any other tool you need to apply it in the right context icd’s have ruined traits as much as balanced them. In this case an icd on chill application seems like a very inapropriate move. You put an icd on a very specific trigger itself which I consider overkill. The only excessive case of chill application lie within the shroud on very specific and obvious skills/combos all on a cooldown of 30 seconds.
For plague, there is an easy solution for that: just remove the stupid self application condis. In fact remove them from all the corruption skills and MoC (which is the most backwards designed trait ever) a good buff for condi AND power.
Also stack intensity for chill is again not a good idea in my opinion because chill is not designed to be stacked.
The self conditions on corruption skills are a staple, as the necro has so many transfers. So if the plague form is a corruption skill, it has to stay. I like being able to punish folk for trying to condi-bomb me. Plague signet, suffer, dagger 4. Eat that plus everything I can put on myself in the meantime. It can be vicious.
As for the ICD on deathly chill, that is combined with another change. If you just added it to the exiting trait, it would suck so bad nobody should ever take it. If, however it applied say… 4 torment stacks for 5 sec… then making it ICD at 5 sec, would prevent RS5,4, from putting up a 40 stack. This way, if you invest in duration, that trait could maintain an 8 stack at 100%. Without duration, it would maintain a 4 stack. Which I would argue, is a lot stronger than say… 4 bleeds most of the time, and a sudden 10 stack off of RS54. It would make it less of an “oh by the way” trait, and make it a mechanic that a proper rotation could keep going.
However if the ICD or that many torment stacks is still unworkable…. a simple way to fix it, would be add a single torment stack of matching duration to that trait. So each chill does 1, 8sec bleed and 1 8sec torment.
That single bleed stack is just not enough damage, especially when we bleed so much already. If you don’t take it, and take reaper’s onslaught to add more bring from dhumfire, you end up with more damage than you do from deathly chill. Assuming you took soul reaping. And it seems to me, that taking a non condi damage trait line, for one condi related trait, should not be better if you drop the big bad elite condi trait from reaper, to take the obviously power based a tack speed trait.
The self conditions on corruption skills are a staple, as the necro has so many transfers. So if the plague form is a corruption skill, it has to stay. I like being able to punish folk for trying to condi-bomb me. Plague signet, suffer, dagger 4. Eat that plus everything I can put on myself in the meantime. It can be vicious.
Self conditions are a staple and guess what it makes the skills bad. But necros have transfer. If i slot a transfer it’s to transfer my enemies conditions not to make my own skills semi usable. There is no added value by giving your self conditions to transfer them to a foe in a competitive scene. The only reason it “works” in pve is because you have a free transfer and condi cleanse is not obligatory in pve. It would be like giving meditations conditions on usage because the guardian can transform them into boons. No guardian in their right mind would use them becaue it is stupid.
As for the ICD on deathly chill, that is combined with another change. If you just added it to the exiting trait, it would suck so bad nobody should ever take it. If, however it applied say… 4 torment stacks for 5 sec… then making it ICD at 5 sec, would prevent RS5,4, from putting up a 40 stack. This way, if you invest in duration, that trait could maintain an 8 stack at 100%. Without duration, it would maintain a 4 stack. Which I would argue, is a lot stronger than say… 4 bleeds most of the time, and a sudden 10 stack off of RS54. It would make it less of an “oh by the way” trait, and make it a mechanic that a proper rotation could keep going.
I’m aware of the added change you suggested but if your icd is only because your enemy is stupid enough to stand in ice field for 4 seconds while you spin for 3 seconds and they eat all the bolts then they deserve any stack they get. Also you assume the reaper can apply a chill every 5 seconds which is completely unrealistic : reapers mark is 1 every 32, chill blains is once ever 16 , terrify is once every 26, executioner scythe is once every 26 and chilled to the bone is once every 90. You can’t even reach that with this and if you did this kind of skill rotation you would be shooting yourself in the foot.
However if the ICD or that many torment stacks is still unworkable…. a simple way to fix it, would be add a single torment stack of matching duration to that trait. So each chill does 1, 8sec bleed and 1 8sec torment.
Applying a chill could result in 4 conditions at once, fear would be a staggering 5 conditions applied. I can just feel the qq comming, mind you it could be balnced though.
That single bleed stack is just not enough damage, especially when we bleed so much already. If you don’t take it, and take reaper’s onslaught to add more bring from dhumfire, you end up with more damage than you do from deathly chill. Assuming you took soul reaping. And it seems to me, that taking a non condi damage trait line, for one condi related trait, should not be better if you drop the big bad elite condi trait from reaper, to take the obviously power based a tack speed trait.
Aggreed but putting ICD on a a trait only because your enemy could die when they are stupid enough to eat a full burst (either by eating an obvious combo or receiving a chill skill chain rotation) is not a good idea.
EverythingOP
(edited by Tim.6450)
I disagree about ICD’so making traits worthless. A trait with an ICD can apply more than 1 stack of condis, allowing for bursts, rather than one long stack.
I absolutely can’t agree with you. Giving an ICD to deathly chill would simply lead to the same disaster that we end up with for chilling darkness.
- First your trait become totally trash in front of more than 1 ennemy.
- Trait synergy with other traits (chilling darkness, chilling nova, whiver of dread, blood bond) become awfull.
- Trait synergy with greatsword auto attack… Well let’s just say that the Greatsword don’t need another indirect nerf.
- Nobody can keep track of all the ICD in this game the dream of being able to stack 6 torment is bound to stay a dream.
- There is a definite reason why most of the trait that have an ICD are unpopular. It’s simply because they are unreliable.
If you’re not convinced ask yourself why almost nobody use spitful renewal, chilling darkness, reaper protection or mark of evasion (before it became a minor)
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
(edited by Dadnir.5038)
Deathly Chill was too strong, it is now too weak.
Deathly Chill was too strong in pvp, but bad whenever more than one person was applying chill. Now it is much weaker in pvp but can be used without being overridden. It was a fair change.
Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.
Confusion called. It wants on board of necro.
One of necro’s main themes is access to each and every condition, albeit not overpowered one. Ok currently there is access via spectral wall combo field usage, but it’s too little. Necro deserves a better, though niche source of confusion, such as plague form #4 or #5.
Though more torment also wouldn’t hurt.
Confusion called. It wants on board of necro.
One of necro’s main themes is access to each and every condition, albeit not overpowered one. Ok currently there is access via spectral wall combo field usage, but it’s too little. Necro deserves a better, though niche source of confusion, such as plague form #4 or #5.
Though more torment also wouldn’t hurt.
Before Hot we had access to all conditions (confusion via spectral wall combo) but now we missing some. We dont have nether slow nor taunt hence i dont think that theme of having all conditions applies anymore.
I agree, all the condition would be nice.
Plague 4- transfer 2 conditions in aoe, like improved suffer, apply confuse for each conditions transferred.
Plague 5- aoe slow and taunt+1 stack of torment per condition on them. Like an aoe scepter 3.
(edited by BrokenGlass.9356)
I agree, all the condition would be nice.
Plague 4- transfer 2 conditions in aoe, like improved suffer, apply confuse for each conditions transferred.
Plague 5- aoe slow and taunt+1 stack of torment per condition on them. Like an aoe scepter 3.
Oh gods, yes please. Plague 5 would be hilarious running head first into an enemy zerg in wvw.
Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.