Guild Wars 2

Ok guys, I’ve tried necro a few times in the past, but never gotten further than level 10 or so, and that was years ago. Now I’m going to give it another shot before the new expansion launches, just to educate myself.

I don’t pretend to be an expert, and I’m about as casual as it gets when it comes to sPVP or roaming in WvW. But I’m going to give necro and honest shot and run it all the way to 80 just to see what it’s like.

I know right now pretty much the entire community agrees that necros are suffering some un-necessary nerfs. I intend to play despite all the naysayers, and find out for myself what the class is really like. I’ll update this post, every couple days or so, with my thoughts and impressions on the class. What I say will probably not be super analytical, and instead how I FEEL about the class. Maybe this will be useful for the discussion on the class, who knows?

Anyway, wish me luck! I THINK I know what I’m getting myself into, but I might not. xD

Played necro since the start of the game (tho i stopped playing for long period before returning this year), and for me it’s still the most entertaining class to play. But don’t think of necro as a “light armor class” like mesmers and elementalists, who can go full condi or full power thanks to their mobility. Instead, try for a mix of damage and defense, despite the zerk trend. You’ll still deal great sustained damage (not burst, that’s not what we do best) either in PvP, WvW and PvE.
I have yet to try how well condis do right now, but power works fine. Feel free to experiment, only zerk and everything with healing seems underperforming right now.
If you like the theme of death and decay, you’ll like it. And a lot of time you’ll find yourself lasting longer than guardians

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me! Any tips and/or suggestions on how to not break my keyboard would be appreciated. I understand it can be a frustrating class to play with all the nerfs being rained constantly, but I want to stick it out to get a real understanding of the class.

So please, anything that can help me be a better player, don’t hesitate to post.

If you’re still leveling the character, don’t worry and be happy. Necro is the best class for soloing pve. Of course, wait to get to 80 before thinking about what build is the best.
Axe is garbage, there’s no other way to describe it. Not undertuned, not niche, not hard to manage (whatever tha means); it’s just plain, utter, reality defying garbage.
I don’t know much about condis, so i’ll just say what i learned from experience with power builds.
Pve
Just stick to dagger + warhorn/focus/dagger. There isn’t a best offhand weapon there (maybe dagger is more for condis, but it’s not like the other 2 deal tons of damage). dagger mainhand deals great sustained damage. And staff, more for utility than damage. You can try the other weapons if you want, you’ll discover how bad axe is after a couple runs, and scepter is for condis.
Spite is the one of the best lines for pve, you easily stack 15+ power on yourself. But just try a bit of everything, you might discover something new.

PvP and WvW
Up until now, soldier (power, toughness, vitality), and death magic + soul reaping + blood magic has been best way for me to play the necro. It’s not about doing insane damage, it’s about surviving long enough till everyone is dead (don’t worry, the enemy will be dead if your teammates don’t just stare at the scenery). In pvp i get more points playing this way than when i focus on damage, and i die a lot less.
WvW depends, for solo roaming, either stick to this or take spite over one of the three above. For teamfights well, I don’t know if there is a best build right now, but wells pretty much dominate, and blood magic is the most, if not the only, line that gives utility (tons of healing), so I wouldn’t leave it for other lines.
I feel stronger in small teamfights than when solo roaming and in big zergs, but you’re kinda strong in solo too.
Zergs are kinda complicated, but again, going tanky means you can dive and last a couple seconds while hitting all the buttons (plague is best here, regardless of build). You could stay away and stick to staff + wells + lich form, but remember that you will never be able to escape fights, you’ll just try to pop some swiftness, while all your allies will use their gapclosers/jumps/rockets/mistforms/invisibility/godknowswhat, and you’ll go in deathshroud, sing “somebody save me” from smallville, and die a couple seconds later. Against fights with more than 10 ppl, your death shroud is equal to 1 second of invulnerability from damage and condis for every 10k hp it has, 0.5 if you’re alone and therefore get focused. Warrior has 5 seconds flat and more access to range damage; guards have perma aegis, retaliation and protection. let that sink in…

But yeah, the class is fun, despite all the kitten we have to live through. And everytime you manage to kill someone or just survive a fight, you’ll feel the strongest player ever.

Up to level 40, mostly through crafting and running around WvW getting what explorer locations I can while they’re available. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the mastery system. But I took the advice of several people and started using a dagger in the main hand. I’m still not entirely sure what offhand I like best. They all seem to have their uses.

I’m guessing it’ll be quite a bit longer before I start to really get a handle on the finer nuances, but so far it seems like a decently fun class.

Lol glad to see your enjoying it! There are a lot of necro’s who still have fun and enjoy the class, we just don’t tend to post on the forums as much as the doom an gloom guys.(Maybe they got more time? I dunno lol). I hope you continue to enjoy the class and get as much enjoyment out of it as I do, glad to see some people aren’t deterred.

My experience is mostly WvW zerg/groups whatever you want to call them.
And that game mode that shall not be mentioned

Berserker’s armor. Zerk trinkets except 1 Cavalier ring ( I like having that little bit of toughness)
Scholar runes cause im too lazy to change it to “meta” or whatever the kids say these days.
Zerk weapons Staff – Dagger/focus
At least sigil of air on both. I use sigil of energy as well for extra dodge rolls

Spite- Spiteful talisman, Chill of death, close to death
Soul Reaping – Unyielding blast, Vital Persistence, Death Perception
Death Magic – Shrouded Removal, Deadly Strength, Corrupter’s Fervor

for third trait line I take death magic, everyone and their mother is gonna be using blood so I am still gonna get siphons in the group.

Heals- do whats comfortable, could care less about CC changes as it hasn’t affected me.

Utility-Well of suffering, well of corruption and Signet of spite. I don’t ever use signet unless on downs for poison near the end of a fight or rally war, mostly have it because +180 power. Lich cause it is still funny too see people runaway and melt.

With the armor/wep stats + Signet + food/stones + corruptors fervor…3.1k power with room to grow…wont say much more cause we are allegedly OP.

I’m not counting in any might I gain or wvw guard stacks since those will be bye bye in the future.

Important thing to remember in wvw, is yes you have to survive, and people do this through utility skills and food and such. However if you learn to position yourself, withing range to do damage and yet out of anyone’s cross hairs, you will survive just fine. It is not like running melee train and just smashing into stuff, more like a dance around the edges.

Others may disagree. If your here to try necro, this is worth a try. Ive been having
tons o’ fun for 3 years, here is to 3 more years. just find whats fun, it doesn’t matter what meta is, steal someone elses build if it looks ok then tweak it how you want. is it optimal? No. Does it matter? No. Have fun, it is a game, enjoy it.

I don’t even understand what half of the things you just listed are. Heh! Sorry, that’s my fault. I’m still learning the new mastery system(last time I played GW2 it wasn’t implemented). I’m certain it’ll make sense by the time I reach 80, tho.

As for WvW, I’ve got a pretty good understanding of it from my time playing other classes(mostly guardian and engi). In Zerg vs Zerg situations, 90% of the time it’s just who has the bigger zerg. You only have to be so careful when you’re in a large enough group. I tend to avoid solo roaming. Honestly, I just don’t find it all that fun. Too much kitten swinging going on.

Update: Level 60 now. I’m really starting to understand why Necros hate not having good access to stability, evades, or blocks. The ping-pong reference is true, and it’s already infuriating. Literally every time I go into WvW or PvP I spend half the time knocked down, knocked back, or otherwise not in control of my character. If I wanted that, I’d still be playing WoW.

I’ve never experienced anything quite so bad on any of the other classes.

Eliteseraph.4970:

Update: Level 60 now. I’m really starting to understand why Necros hate not having good access to stability, evades, or blocks. The ping-pong reference is true, and it’s already infuriating. Literally every time I go into WvW or PvP I spend half the time knocked down, knocked back, or otherwise not in control of my character. If I wanted that, I’d still be playing WoW.

I’ve never experienced anything quite so bad on any of the other classes.

Not to be a total kitten or anything but here —-→ https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

6 stun breaks for us,and one extra one in one of our traits. Plus after the trait rework we also have another stun break, “Plague Signet”,in one of our traits,making it actually 8.

Just to show the differences in stun breaks;
Mesmer: 6
Necro: 8
Ele: 7
Thief: 5
Ranger: 5
Engie: 7
Warrior: 9
Guardian: 7

Stab per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability
Mesmer: 2
Necro: 4
Ele: 4
Thief: They have 1 trait,don’t they?
Ranger: 2
Engie: 5
Warrior: 6
Guardian: 3

Evades per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
Mesmer: 4 + dodge
Necro: 0 + dodge
Ele: 3 + dodge
Thief: 9 + dodge
Ranger: 7 + dodge
Engie: 1 + dodge
Warrior: 1 + dodge
Guardian: 0 + dodge

Blocks per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
Mesmer: 2 + 1 projectile block
Necro: 0
Ele: 1 projectile block
Thief: 1 projectile block
Ranger: 1 + 1 projectile block
Engie: 2 + 1 random projectile block from Elixir….
Warrior: 3
Guardian: 4 + 3 projectile blocks
(I have not included underwater skills in any of the lists because tbh,who cares anyway?)

When it comes down to it you can counter argue that our access to stabs and stun breaks aren’t very accessible when it comes to certain builds than other classes. That’s not true,there’s not one class in those lists that can have their whole kitten nal of stabs,breaks w/e at any given time.

It’s a matter of sacrificing some skills from some build for a stun break or stab or w/e.

If you zerg in wvw you’re okay with w/e class you play I believe. In pvp I can see that you have some problems if you’re following meta builds. Swap out some skills for some stun breaks and please,utilize those 2 dodges you have to your upmost ability. In a team fight it can get hard keeping track of when some knockback,stun etc. is coming but on 1v1 or 1v2’s it shouldn’t be a problem to predict them.

Another thing to consider when reading my paragraph above I understand that you had a break from gw? Also this is a totally new class for you so it will take some time to get used to it.

TL;DR There are things you can do to help you not get pin ponged. No class has an equal amount of stabs,stun breaks etc. but by the looks of it are somewhat balanced. We’re definitely not lacking in the “get right back up again” category….

I’ll let someone with more experience in Necro field the response to each of your points. I was only trying to get across my impression of the class so far compared to other classes I’ve played. I don’t have access to everything yet since I’m only 60.

It sounds like it gets a little bit better at max level, however.

insaneseagull.7063:

Eliteseraph.4970:

Update: Level 60 now. I’m really starting to understand why Necros hate not having good access to stability, evades, or blocks. The ping-pong reference is true, and it’s already infuriating. Literally every time I go into WvW or PvP I spend half the time knocked down, knocked back, or otherwise not in control of my character. If I wanted that, I’d still be playing WoW.

I’ve never experienced anything quite so bad on any of the other classes.

Not to be a total kitten or anything but here —--> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

6 stun breaks for us,and one extra one in one of our traits. Plus after the trait rework we also have another stun break, “Plague Signet”,in one of our traits,making it actually 8.

Just to show the differences in stun breaks;
Mesmer: 6
Necro: 8
Ele: 7
Thief: 5
Ranger: 5
Engie: 7
Warrior: 9
Guardian: 7

Stab per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability
Mesmer: 2
Necro: 4
Ele: 4
Thief: They have 1 trait,don’t they?
Ranger: 2
Engie: 5
Warrior: 6
Guardian: 3

Evades per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
Mesmer: 4 + dodge
Necro: 0 + dodge
Ele: 3 + dodge
Thief: 9 + dodge
Ranger: 7 + dodge
Engie: 1 + dodge
Warrior: 1 + dodge
Guardian: 0 + dodge

Blocks per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
Mesmer: 2 + 1 projectile block
Necro: 0
Ele: 1 projectile block
Thief: 1 projectile block
Ranger: 1 + 1 projectile block
Engie: 2 + 1 random projectile block from Elixir….
Warrior: 3
Guardian: 4 + 3 projectile blocks
(I have not included underwater skills in any of the lists because tbh,who cares anyway?)

When it comes down to it you can counter argue that our access to stabs and stun breaks aren’t very accessible when it comes to certain builds than other classes. That’s not true,there’s not one class in those lists that can have their whole kitten nal of stabs,breaks w/e at any given time.

It’s a matter of sacrificing some skills from some build for a stun break or stab or w/e.

If you zerg in wvw you’re okay with w/e class you play I believe. In pvp I can see that you have some problems if you’re following meta builds. Swap out some skills for some stun breaks and please,utilize those 2 dodges you have to your upmost ability. In a team fight it can get hard keeping track of when some knockback,stun etc. is coming but on 1v1 or 1v2’s it shouldn’t be a problem to predict them.

Another thing to consider when reading my paragraph above I understand that you had a break from gw? Also this is a totally new class for you so it will take some time to get used to it.

TL;DR There are things you can do to help you not get pin ponged. No class has an equal amount of stabs,stun breaks etc. but by the looks of it are somewhat balanced. We’re definitely not lacking in the “get right back up again” category….

Our access to stab is garbage though. In all reality you can at most have 3 ways to get it. Plague (Arguably Our best access to stability), Foot In the Grave trait (Forces you to run spite, but also doubles as a stun break. You just need to decide if you want to give up 20% damage when foes hit 50% HP, which is a hard sell for me considering it gives you a 3 second, single stack of stab.) And well of power which is also a stun break and gives you a whopping 1 second of 1 stack of stab….

Lets compare this to a warrior who could run say…. JUST dolyak Sig and get an 8 second 10 stack of stability. Look at that. A single utility that provides infinitely better stab access than ANY of our stab options while also doubling as a stun break. Or Balanced Stance, another 8 seconds of stab but this time only with 5 stacks, but as a bonus it gives 8 seconds of swiftness and is a stun break as well… And warriors don’t have to go out of there way to get this, and it really doesn’t ruin any warrior builds that I’m aware of to grab one of these.

OR lets look at Ranger: They could run signet of the wild and get…. YOU GUESSED IT, 8 seconds of 5 stacks of stab while also dealing 25% percent more damage!

You could argue that Engi doesn’t have the greatest stab access either, BUT they get invulns that make the completely immune to all forms of CC, something which our class DOES NOT have.

TL;DR Our access to stab is garbage. And if this is your definition of “balance” please never get a job in game developement.

insaneseagull.7063:

snip

You are wrong. Very wrong.

Let’s look at stunbreaks:

You’re making a big flaw by counting passive procs, cause you have little to no control over them. Foot in the Grave is such a big investment that I find it unreasonable to count it towards our total, and Flesh Wurm requires you to have it placed beforehand (and enemies can kill it).

This leaves us with 4 baseline stunbreaks:

Let’s compare this to others (not counting big trait investments and passive procs):
Warrior: 5
Thief: 4
Guardian: 5
Engineer: 6
Elementalist: 4
Ranger: 4
Mesmer: 5

As you can see, we’re at the lower end of the spectrum, but it seems pretty balanced. It’s not our amount of stunbreaks there’s anything wrong with, it all comes down to stability, blocks and mobility.

When we account for stability I think that again it’s reasonable to leave out Foot in the Grave because very few builds will make that big investment, and if they do it will reduce their build’s effectiveness in a lot of cases. It’s better to look at baseline for each profession. Counting Well of Power as a stability is also wrong because it’s only one second to cover its cast time (which is why I’m not going to count the Warrior’s Stomp either).

Our only proper stabilities are Lich and Plague, which both have 3 minute cooldowns, and both are transforms so we are locked out of our normal skills.

Let’s compare shall we (and again I won’t be counting trait procs):
Warrior: 3 (40 sec, 60 sec and 150 sec)
Thief: 1 (90 sec)
Guardian: 2 (30 sec and 80 sec)
Engineer: 2 (25 sec, and 180 sec)
Elementalist: 2 (75 sec, and 180 sec)
Ranger: 2 (both 60 sec)
Mesmer: 1 (25 sec)

As you can see, we have lower access to stability than every other class. The numbers are pretty equal if you only look at the amount of skills that grant stability, but both of our stabilities are tied to elite transforms with really high cooldowns. It gets even more uneven when we take into consideration blocks and extra evades like you did in your post.

This is what other classes have across all theirs weapons and utilities, not counting underwater or really unwieldy evades (such as ranger GS auto or swoop):
Warrior: 3 blocks, 1 semi-invuln, 1 extra evade.
Thief: 2 projectile blocks/reflects, 7 extra evades (counting Signet of Agility)
Guardian: 2 aegis, 1 invuln, 2 blocks, 5 projectile blocks/reflects.
Engineer: 2 blocks, 1 invuln, 3 projectile block/reflect, 2 extra evades (counting Elixir R)
Elementalist: 1 block, 2 invuln, 4 projectile blocks/reflects, 3 extra evades.
Ranger: 1 block, 1 semi-invuln, 1 projectile block/reflect, 5 extra evades.
Mesmer: 2 blocks, 2 blur/distort, 1 blink-dodge, 2 projectile reflects (several more through traits).

To put things into perspecive:
Necromancer: Nothing.

Of course you’re not going to access to all of this at the same time on other classes, but this is what they have in their kitten nal that they can choose from without any trait investment.

I’m not going to count teleports, leaps and stealth since you didn’t, but it would just make the imbalance even more prevalent and further prove my point.

Face reality: We have a “2nd lifebar”, that’s it.

Hope this post was enlightening.

insaneseagull.7063:

Eliteseraph.4970:

Update: Level 60 now. I’m really starting to understand why Necros hate not having good access to stability, evades, or blocks. The ping-pong reference is true, and it’s already infuriating. Literally every time I go into WvW or PvP I spend half the time knocked down, knocked back, or otherwise not in control of my character. If I wanted that, I’d still be playing WoW.

I’ve never experienced anything quite so bad on any of the other classes.

Not to be a total kitten or anything but here —--> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

6 stun breaks for us,and one extra one in one of our traits. Plus after the trait rework we also have another stun break, “Plague Signet”,in one of our traits,making it actually 8.

Just to show the differences in stun breaks;
Mesmer: 6
Necro: 8
Ele: 7
Thief: 5
Ranger: 5
Engie: 7
Warrior: 9
Guardian: 7

Stab per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability
Mesmer: 2
Necro: 4
Ele: 4
Thief: They have 1 trait,don’t they?
Ranger: 2
Engie: 5
Warrior: 6
Guardian: 3

Evades per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
Mesmer: 4 + dodge
Necro: 0 + dodge
Ele: 3 + dodge
Thief: 9 + dodge
Ranger: 7 + dodge
Engie: 1 + dodge
Warrior: 1 + dodge
Guardian: 0 + dodge

Blocks per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
Mesmer: 2 + 1 projectile block
Necro: 0
Ele: 1 projectile block
Thief: 1 projectile block
Ranger: 1 + 1 projectile block
Engie: 2 + 1 random projectile block from Elixir….
Warrior: 3
Guardian: 4 + 3 projectile blocks
(I have not included underwater skills in any of the lists because tbh,who cares anyway?)

When it comes down to it you can counter argue that our access to stabs and stun breaks aren’t very accessible when it comes to certain builds than other classes. That’s not true,there’s not one class in those lists that can have their whole kitten nal of stabs,breaks w/e at any given time.

It’s a matter of sacrificing some skills from some build for a stun break or stab or w/e.

If you zerg in wvw you’re okay with w/e class you play I believe. In pvp I can see that you have some problems if you’re following meta builds. Swap out some skills for some stun breaks and please,utilize those 2 dodges you have to your upmost ability. In a team fight it can get hard keeping track of when some knockback,stun etc. is coming but on 1v1 or 1v2’s it shouldn’t be a problem to predict them.

Another thing to consider when reading my paragraph above I understand that you had a break from gw? Also this is a totally new class for you so it will take some time to get used to it.

TL;DR There are things you can do to help you not get pin ponged. No class has an equal amount of stabs,stun breaks etc. but by the looks of it are somewhat balanced. We’re definitely not lacking in the “get right back up again” category….

The only stability access thieves have is Dagger storm elite. kittenty, huh?

I knew these counter posts were coming,and I fully agree, but on the other hand we have skills to bring them “down on our level”. We can strip those stability stacks from them just like that snaps fingers.

Personally though,I’ve never had any major problems with control effects fighting 1v1 or 1v2 or 2v3. The major problem shows itself when you’re in group fights,but then again it’s very likely that some team member will share stab.

When you look at the big picture though there’s so many different situations where it would have been good and some where you wouldn’t really need it that much. Being prepared for every possible encounter is nigh impossible with any given class. There are times you will own your enemie’s souls. There are also times where you feel like you got scorched by Balthazar.

Comparing it to the warrior was kind of stupid though since it has the most access to stab and w/e else. It’s like comparing the dps of a lvl 1 and 80,both on totally different ends on the spectrum.

If you look at just the numbers it’s kind of “balanced”,like the amount of access too stability sources. Balanced doesn’t mean equal amount of x and y for every class. And no,this is not my definition of balance.

Signet of the wild is also on a 60 second cd. That leaves the ranger with “Strength of the Pack” which gives 3 stacks of stab for 3 seconds,3-4 times,which is also on a 60 second cd.

TL;DR No class can be god all the time,sometimes you have to eat the dust. Or you can just l2dodge.

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

insaneseagull.7063:

Eliteseraph.4970:

Update: Level 60 now. I’m really starting to understand why Necros hate not having good access to stability, evades, or blocks. The ping-pong reference is true, and it’s already infuriating. Literally every time I go into WvW or PvP I spend half the time knocked down, knocked back, or otherwise not in control of my character. If I wanted that, I’d still be playing WoW.

I’ve never experienced anything quite so bad on any of the other classes.

Not to be a total kitten or anything but here —--> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

6 stun breaks for us,and one extra one in one of our traits. Plus after the trait rework we also have another stun break, “Plague Signet”,in one of our traits,making it actually 8.

Just to show the differences in stun breaks;
Mesmer: 6
Necro: 8
Ele: 7
Thief: 5
Ranger: 5
Engie: 7
Warrior: 9
Guardian: 7

Stab per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability
Mesmer: 2
Necro: 4
Ele: 4
Thief: They have 1 trait,don’t they?
Ranger: 2
Engie: 5
Warrior: 6
Guardian: 3

Evades per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
Mesmer: 4 + dodge
Necro: 0 + dodge
Ele: 3 + dodge
Thief: 9 + dodge
Ranger: 7 + dodge
Engie: 1 + dodge
Warrior: 1 + dodge
Guardian: 0 + dodge

Blocks per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
Mesmer: 2 + 1 projectile block
Necro: 0
Ele: 1 projectile block
Thief: 1 projectile block
Ranger: 1 + 1 projectile block
Engie: 2 + 1 random projectile block from Elixir….
Warrior: 3
Guardian: 4 + 3 projectile blocks
(I have not included underwater skills in any of the lists because tbh,who cares anyway?)

When it comes down to it you can counter argue that our access to stabs and stun breaks aren’t very accessible when it comes to certain builds than other classes. That’s not true,there’s not one class in those lists that can have their whole kitten nal of stabs,breaks w/e at any given time.

It’s a matter of sacrificing some skills from some build for a stun break or stab or w/e.

If you zerg in wvw you’re okay with w/e class you play I believe. In pvp I can see that you have some problems if you’re following meta builds. Swap out some skills for some stun breaks and please,utilize those 2 dodges you have to your upmost ability. In a team fight it can get hard keeping track of when some knockback,stun etc. is coming but on 1v1 or 1v2’s it shouldn’t be a problem to predict them.

Another thing to consider when reading my paragraph above I understand that you had a break from gw? Also this is a totally new class for you so it will take some time to get used to it.

TL;DR There are things you can do to help you not get pin ponged. No class has an equal amount of stabs,stun breaks etc. but by the looks of it are somewhat balanced. We’re definitely not lacking in the “get right back up again” category….

The only stability access thieves have is Dagger storm elite. kittenty, huh?

Didn’t they have a trait which gave them stab upon reveal? Or was that removed when that trait rework patch hit? O__O