ABOUT THE METHODS OF ESCAPE AND DEATHS
Don’t CAP.
I don’t think it will happen as Anet wants us to be the attrition class. Not that what I want tho, but Anet is stubborn.
IIRC during the first beta dark path was an ground targetting teleport. It was deemed to overpowering by the devs; somthing I disagree with. If a thief can disengage at will then why can’t we?
I can understand that anet wants us to be THE attrition class, I’m just wondering if I’ll still be playing when that day comes. As it sits now the only class that comes close to attrition is the guard.
Were not suppose to be able to escape a fight. It’s win or die. Dev’s want that to be our thing.
We ARE suppose to be attrition tho. Which were arguably worst at.
Even in PvE a dungeon with a boss fight of over 30sec, we can’t avoid that next 1shot hit. Which all other class’s can due to access to Vigor/Invul/Block/Endurance Regen etc.
PvP, it’s soo easy for any good player to avoid any of our LifeForce generators. It’s also well known, focus the necro down first, as they can’t stop you. Even 1v1 it’s known CC chain them, they can’t stop you (Tho giving us a Brakes Stun with less than 90sec CD is nice)
I guess, if we go 100% traits & gear into damage (Hybrid, Pow/Pre/Condi) were slightly more tanky than other class’s that do the same.
I’ve seen a number of threads on this topic, and I have to say, I strongly disagree with the premise that necros are unable to escape from fights. I’m able to engage multiple people, and escape from hairy situations quite easily. It depends upon your build, just as with any other class. Our class has access to Signet of the Locust, which is a constant 25% boost, along with some gnarly CC’s.
As with any class, it depends upon your build. Some builds have a lot of agility, but they lack in other areas. I often find there are trade-offs with any build, and it’s a matter of what you will give up…unless you can perchance find a build that will strike a healthy balance.
Just food for thought too. If anyone happens to be running a meta build, it is easier for other people to know how to counter it since they see it so often. Try a variety of builds, as I assure you, there are some for the necro that deal excellent damage and can escape.
Signet doesn’t work in DS. Swift that most class’s use, is 33%.
Then, Cripple is -50% speed, Chill -66%.
In combat, moving forwards is double the speed of moving backwards, meaning we can’t damage/build life force etc.
While we do have Wormy, it’s kinda pre set up, were going here, before the fight starts. So not exactly on par with other’s tele’s.
While I have got away a few times with Spect Walk, with players chasein me then tele’ing back N them not knowing where I’ve gone (Giggles), the green trails also is a bit ya know.
It’s not a escape like a Thief who can invis & tele at once, or there fleet shadow trait that lets them move at 50% movement speed while invis.
It’s def not like a Eng that can “Super Speed” off at 200%, and get out of combat, have out of combat regen heal them fully, and come back and finish us off while were still stuck in combat with them the entire time.
Anyway, this is by design. The dev’s said, mobility, escape, and CC’s are our weakness. What’s particularly wrong with us at the moment, is they also said were attrition. Which with the rework of DS, were massively behind all other class’s now.
I also think, that our promise of more tools to ‘lock down’ a opponent and stop them escaping, wasn’t really fixed by Torment, especially not by letting the thief apply more stacks than we can.
The only glaring problem of note is that we lack weapon based escapes. As above was stated, that was a design choice, which is perfectly fine in my opinion. DS2 as it is, can still be used as a limited blink, which makes it pretty good. Spectral walk – WILL – open up distance if you use it and charge off in a random direction.
No one wants to give up their utilities for survival on the necro, but since so many of our weapon skills are designed around keeping people slowed, transfering conditions, etc, it would be pretty ridiculous if you could also leap at people, or leap away. We are already the kings of kiting, that would just be absurd.
Currently my only problem is just how insanely powerful certain minor traits are (Spectral armor at 50%), versus others (+toughness per minion). If you were to keep in those sort of survival mechanisms that they have buffed significantly, AND decide to go back and now give us a leap skill, it would be a problem.
My advice is to not try to “thief” it against 2-4 people alone. People continue to get into those situations and get angry they have to die.
We do have a escape mechanic. It’s the wurm. Pop it next to the fight. There ya go, one free teleport escape.
I wouldn’t be asking for more. Try playing a mesmer, they die so dang quickly they truly need the stealth. Our tainted shackles and life transfer from DS is so OP against stealth right now. What do engineers get? A 3 second immunity to everything. Great… till you grow up and die from the zerg attacking you. With my necro i can jump in, cast my staff aoe, DS tainted shackles and life transfer. Usually take down 1 or 2 people in the zerg before they can kill me.
Necros are crazy strong at the moment.
We do have a escape mechanic. It’s the wurm. Pop it next to the fight. There ya go, one free teleport escape.
I wouldn’t be asking for more. Try playing a mesmer, they die so dang quickly they truly need the stealth. Our tainted shackles and life transfer from DS is so OP against stealth right now. What do engineers get? A 3 second immunity to everything. Great… till you grow up and die from the zerg attacking you. With my necro i can jump in, cast my staff aoe, DS tainted shackles and life transfer. Usually take down 1 or 2 people in the zerg before they can kill me.
Necros are crazy strong at the moment.
Not sure what mesmer you are playing, but they are one of the most survivable classes with mobility and stealth…. If you take the boons on stealth trait they are nearly impossible to take down. Also engineers have the 25% condition immunity which is insane… leaps, boons, super speed…
Not saying there is anything wrong with all that, but you overstate the case for necro survivability.
I dont give a kitten about escapes, just let me kittenslap idiots that dont cleanse my chill and sit around while im in DS instead of trying to burst it down (seriously that UW life blast would be so much more of a threat instead of a 2-5k hit depending on crit every 1.3 seconds). Also please no more ping pong while im one of the incarnations of death and decay.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
We do have a escape mechanic. It’s the wurm. Pop it next to the fight. There ya go, one free teleport escape.
I wouldn’t be asking for more. Try playing a mesmer, they die so dang quickly they truly need the stealth. Our tainted shackles and life transfer from DS is so OP against stealth right now. What do engineers get? A 3 second immunity to everything. Great… till you grow up and die from the zerg attacking you. With my necro i can jump in, cast my staff aoe, DS tainted shackles and life transfer. Usually take down 1 or 2 people in the zerg before they can kill me.
Necros are crazy strong at the moment.
Not sure what mesmer you are playing, but they are one of the most survivable classes with mobility and stealth…. If you take the boons on stealth trait they are nearly impossible to take down. Also engineers have the 25% condition immunity which is insane… leaps, boons, super speed…
Not saying there is anything wrong with all that, but you overstate the case for necro survivability.
Like I said DS completely counters any stealth based class. Mesmers and thiefs are extremely squishy. Watch as tainted shackles and life transfers eats through their health as they invis. It’s not hard to land staff aoes if you can predict where they are going.
I guess I am saying that I haven’t experienced enough problems to agree with these statements. I came from playing a HgH/static engineer and Meditation/Bunker Guardian. I found that Necros have a much easier time dealing with tough situations like stealth or CC than my guardian or engineer.
We do have a escape mechanic. It’s the wurm. Pop it next to the fight. There ya go, one free teleport escape.
I wouldn’t be asking for more. Try playing a mesmer, they die so dang quickly they truly need the stealth. Our tainted shackles and life transfer from DS is so OP against stealth right now. What do engineers get? A 3 second immunity to everything. Great… till you grow up and die from the zerg attacking you. With my necro i can jump in, cast my staff aoe, DS tainted shackles and life transfer. Usually take down 1 or 2 people in the zerg before they can kill me.
Necros are crazy strong at the moment.
Not sure what mesmer you are playing, but they are one of the most survivable classes with mobility and stealth…. If you take the boons on stealth trait they are nearly impossible to take down. Also engineers have the 25% condition immunity which is insane… leaps, boons, super speed…
Not saying there is anything wrong with all that, but you overstate the case for necro survivability.
Like I said DS completely counters any stealth based class. Mesmers and thiefs are extremely squishy. Watch as tainted shackles and life transfers eats through their health as they invis. It’s not hard to land staff aoes if you can predict where they are going.
I guess I am saying that I haven’t experienced enough problems to agree with these statements. I came from playing a HgH/static engineer and Meditation/Bunker Guardian. I found that Necros have a much easier time dealing with tough situations like stealth or CC than my guardian or engineer.
Countering stealthing classes and surviving are two completely different things. I agree that we are very strong against stealthing classes now, especially mesmers, but that doesn’t increase our survival chances in the situations that tend to Gib necros… such as the large zerg training over you.
That is the situation most necros tend to fixate on and remember. That hammer train that ruined their day. A thief, a mesmer, pretty much anything else, might have had a way to get out when it came by, but a necro would need 30 in SR, a pre-placed worm, or a prayer to get out. Knowing this limitation, I don’t mind really, but that is what people get upset about. In THAT situation, if the incoming DPS is greater than your HP + your DS, you tend to be done for.
An instant on demand blink is something we don’t have (and don’t need), but what people want.
We do have a escape mechanic. It’s the wurm. Pop it next to the fight. There ya go, one free teleport escape.
I wouldn’t be asking for more. Try playing a mesmer, they die so dang quickly they truly need the stealth. Our tainted shackles and life transfer from DS is so OP against stealth right now. What do engineers get? A 3 second immunity to everything. Great… till you grow up and die from the zerg attacking you. With my necro i can jump in, cast my staff aoe, DS tainted shackles and life transfer. Usually take down 1 or 2 people in the zerg before they can kill me.
Necros are crazy strong at the moment.
Not sure what mesmer you are playing, but they are one of the most survivable classes with mobility and stealth…. If you take the boons on stealth trait they are nearly impossible to take down. Also engineers have the 25% condition immunity which is insane… leaps, boons, super speed…
Not saying there is anything wrong with all that, but you overstate the case for necro survivability.
Like I said DS completely counters any stealth based class. Mesmers and thiefs are extremely squishy. Watch as tainted shackles and life transfers eats through their health as they invis. It’s not hard to land staff aoes if you can predict where they are going.
I guess I am saying that I haven’t experienced enough problems to agree with these statements. I came from playing a HgH/static engineer and Meditation/Bunker Guardian. I found that Necros have a much easier time dealing with tough situations like stealth or CC than my guardian or engineer.
Countering stealthing classes and surviving are two completely different things. I agree that we are very strong against stealthing classes now, especially mesmers, but that doesn’t increase our survival chances in the situations that tend to Gib necros… such as the large zerg training over you.
That is the situation most necros tend to fixate on and remember. That hammer train that ruined their day. A thief, a mesmer, pretty much anything else, might have had a way to get out when it came by, but a necro would need 30 in SR, a pre-placed worm, or a prayer to get out. Knowing this limitation, I don’t mind really, but that is what people get upset about. In THAT situation, if the incoming DPS is greater than your HP + your DS, you tend to be done for.
An instant on demand blink is something we don’t have (and don’t need), but what people want.
Exactly. If a zerg is about to stomp you, they will. Necros can’t ask for more mobility or defense otherwise they will be greatly OP.
It goes back to when the game was in its development.
“When you lock horn with a necro, one of you will die…”
- Devs
Necro is designed to not runaway. That is all.
And when 3 focus on a necro, the necro will die.
It goes back to when the game was in its development.
“When you lock horn with a necro, one of you will die…”
- DevsNecro is designed to not runaway. That is all.
Norn necro is what you’re looking for if you want that “oh kitten” button. Their elite snow leopard not only has dash, a VERY fast escape, but if you pop the 5 second stealth either afterwards or before you will get away 99% of the time. It’s just to bad that the only racial elite that is of any use to a necro has to be on the least necroish race.
Necromancers don’t need a survivability buff after the Spectral Armor and Death Shroud changes. If you are still having survivability issues, it’s likely a personal problem.
For a Necro to escape, they need to be able to use their skills. They don’t have a single instant cast 900/1200 range teleport skill at their disposal, and they will always eat any damage thrown at them because they don’t have any immunity skills either.
Wait a minute. A Necro has 3 teleport skills:
1. Now you let know how many times the enemy interrupts you activating that 1.5 second double-action cast time skill as opposed to true single-action instant cast ability.
2. You see that “escape here” sign straight ahead while the “focus train” full of pulls, knockdowns, and all other kinds of nasty stuff is closing in on you from the rear? Well, not only does Spectral Walk have a significant set up time, but guess which direction your going to end up closest to when you do pop it. And that’s provided you’re not crazy (<—politically correct word) enough to play chicken with a train.
3. Dark Path disqualifies itself just on general design purpose.
Well what does a Necro have:
With the exception of Spectral Wall latest change, the only utility skill to even qualify, a Necro has absolutely nothing to escape with. While those 3 teleport skills will work in the starting areas, they are a liability to a Necro against real enemies. As I said above, mainly in similar posts, the Necro has to be able to use their skills. 17 out of the 25 non-aquatic weapon skills have defensive properties built into them. On average, with weapon swapping + DS, 10 defensive skills out of 15 is on your weapon’s bar. Its an attrition class after all, but (since you’re a Necro) have virtually no means to forcefully use them without 15pt Last Gasp in a picture perfect opportune time, or 30pt Stability and sacrifice your best defense by flashing it in order to use a defensive weapon ability.
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Meh. As long as we can melt other classes as fast as burst classes with conditions, Anet’s dream won’t come true. So they might as well give up some escaping abilities or really sit down and make us how they intended us to be.
Laviere – Hybrid Wellomancer
Makonne – Hybrid Regen Ranger
Makonne – Hybrid Regen Ranger
Necromancers don’t need a survivability buff after the nerfs to Spectral Armor and Death Shroud. If you are still having survivability issues in 1v1s where they are now bloody op, it’s likely a personal problem.
Fixed that for you.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
PvP: CC & Focus it down quick, there’s nothing it can do. If you don’t it will burst condi’s and melt you.
PvE: Ask the necro to sit out of any real boss fight over 30sec, they can’t keep up.
Wasn’t my understanding of a attrition class.
I find myself more and more in combat reset fights lately..
And it is becoming obvious necro needs an out of combat for free card.
heck if all other classes can and hide run we should too..
And don’t come with the traits d/d argument.. traiting for speed, like any other class has without traits is rediculous.
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I find myself more and more in combat reset fights lately..
And it is becoming obvious necro needs an out of combat for free card.
heck if all other classes can and hide run we should too..
And don’t come with the traits d/d argument.. traiting for speed, like any other class has without traits is rediculous.
This prompted a thought. I understand the desire Anet has in trying to keep Necros from having too many tools at their disposal in any given fight and therefore I am resigned to not having a true escape skill. That said however, the ability to at the very least break out of combat would be nice.
What you pointed out is one of the issues I always have with my Necro. When the fight gets reset for one reason or another, it seems to take forever for me to get out of combat just to start a natural health regen, not to mention in WvW, the number of times some silly mob is now also fighting me because most Necro skills are AOE, or hit multiple targets giving advantages to my enemies more often than not.
The ability to leave combat is very powerful especially if you are able to let your enemy take the aggro of mobs and then re-engage while they are at a disadvantage.
Perma speed buff, fear, chill, Flesh Wurm, Spectral Walk…
I’m sorry but necros do have multiple escape tools. They’re just different.
Well flesh wurm can be put on a random safe place. you will teleport max range if you move out of range. On my necro its just place it, remember direction and roam. It saved me countless times. Combined with chills and spectral walk it should be easy to escape when played well..
Were not suppose to just escape tho. Which is fine. It’s actually why lots of us chose this class. We were however suppose to be very tanky, and usually not worth the time to kill.
The problem has become, that over time, we become weaker than other class’s. Coupled with we need to attack to do anything defensive, means CCing us totally disables us.
We do have a burst condi damage spec, that’s rather squishy. Not really as advertised, but good. Many players enjoy playing a necro like this.
There was suppose to be at least 1 spec, that kept up with Guard/War’s for bunker.
Don’t get me wrong i love running as fast as other professions.
With speed runes/sig/food/traited speed to the max with d/d ^^
Immagine spvp with the new conquest/capture the point gamemode..
Now immagine your necro trying to keep up with the team..
yeah.. my thoughts exactly..
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Perma speed buff, fear, chill, Flesh Wurm, Spectral Walk…
I’m sorry but necros do have multiple escape tools. They’re just different.
I am sorry but fear and chill are hardly escape tools when we talk about resetting a fight. The flesh wurm has outside of spvp no meaning, spectral walk ist highly situational and perma speed, please…………… Do you believe your opponents do not have access to swiftness ?? I remember in one of the state of the game discussions Anet thought of giving necros an ability to reset a fight but instead they gave us dumbfire.
I remember in one of the state of the game discussions Anet thought of giving necros an ability to reset a fight but instead they gave us dumbfire.
In its first implementation, it did reset fights, it also made the enemy start it from spawn point, but it did “reset it” X3 then ofc the nerfs came in to everything we loved and some stuff that was hated.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.