Guild Wars 2

The lack of fields and finishers access is a huge problem with Necromancers as a profession. Unless you play MM with Death Nova, you will at best have a 20% projectile chance, and a blast finisher, with a poison and maybe a few dark fields. And none of these can be used in any way as on-demand play, they just kind of happen on accident.

My suggestion is to add play in a balanced way, by generally adding finishers and fields via packaged traits and a few base buffs. Mainly, I want to see better access to poison and ice fields, and better finishers to play with these fields, and to combo with allies more reliably. This makes us far more useful in groups in PvE/WvW because while

Base Buffs
Only a few here, I think in general our base skills are either just fine on their own, or need deeper help than this.

Unholy Feast – blast finisher
Haunt – leap finisher
Spectral Grasp – projectile finisher

Changes that would be via traits
These would be available via traits, some I will list as a specific trait, others will just be kind of left out there as being able to be part of a trait. Generally I’d think you could bundle sets of the open ones into a trait that was just additional fields/finishers on a concentrated set of things.

Lingering Marks – GM Death Magic trait – all marks leave behind a field lasting for 2 seconds after using the skill. Mark of Blood – dark field, Chillblains – remains the same, Putrid Mark – poison field, Reaper’s Mark – ice field. (gasp, staff actually supporting? END OF LIFE AS WE KNOW IT)

Dagger mastery – Enfeebling Blood – blast finisher

Assorted ideas (would be trait/part of trait, not base buff)
Dark Path – leap finisher
Life Transfer – drops a field on start of cast (ice field?)
Tainted Shackles – blast finisher (on immobilize part)
Epidemic – blast finisher

Thoughts? This was just a few ideas I’ve had for a while, made all the more prevalent by all the dungeon running I’ve been doing recently (and feeling like a leech since all I do for the team is WH 5, swap, focus 4, dagger auto, focus 4, dagger auto, focus 4, swap, repeat, with almost no team utility at all, I just sit there saying “thanks for the might guys”). Love to hear feedback, both on what I proposed and the idea in general, and also any ideas you have as to other changes you might do along this line.

Ive had some similar ideas. The forums post previous to this one > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Combo-s-1

Too bad Blind does not work like it did in GW1, then dark combo fields would probably be a lot more popular.

Lingering Marks – GM Death Magic trait – all marks leave behind a field lasting for 2 seconds after using the skill. Mark of Blood – dark field, Chillblains – remains the same, Putrid Mark – poison field, Reaper’s Mark – ice field. (gasp, staff actually supporting? END OF LIFE AS WE KNOW IT)

Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field instead and change the default Well of Blood to a water field instead of light and you’d go a long way towards improving Necro group support.

For the Marks – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7fBjaa0odE

Overkillengine.6084:

Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field instead and change the default Well of Blood to a water field instead of light and you’d go a long way towards improving Necro group support.

If Well of Blood was changed, I’d nerf it so you needed to blast exactly once to get the same allied healing, and the self healing was nerfed a bit stronger (so one blast would take it back to ALMOST where it is now, but just a little bit weaker on yourself).

Mark of Blood seems too good. Consider that staff could be fully traited and you’d have a 2s water field on a 4.8s CD, however I guess you could argue that that is perfectly acceptable of a GM level trait (so long as the field itself does nothing).

Your Lingering Marks idea is really great and it would actually be worthy of a gm spot, unlike Unholy Sanctuary which is so weak it might as well have become one of the new minor traits.

Overkillengine.6084:

Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field

A 2 sec waterfield every ~5.5sec with Staff Mastery? That, Mr Overkillengine, would be overkill.

Bhawb.7408:

Overkillengine.6084:

Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field instead and change the default Well of Blood to a water field instead of light and you’d go a long way towards improving Necro group support.

If Well of Blood was changed, I’d nerf it so you needed to blast exactly once to get the same allied healing, and the self healing was nerfed a bit stronger (so one blast would take it back to ALMOST where it is now, but just a little bit weaker on yourself).

I know you always praise this skill’s healing potential, but even with cleric’s gear the group healing is weaker than what other classes can provide, and our self healing is just pathetic in its current state. If all of our healing (not just WoB) was doubled and could heal us through Death Shroud we’d actually be in an ok-ish spot.

flow.6043:

I know you always praise this skill’s healing potential, but even with cleric’s gear the group healing is weaker than what other classes can provide, and our self healing is just pathetic in its current state. If all of our healing (not just WoB) was doubled and could heal us through Death Shroud we’d actually be in an ok-ish spot.

We have the highest raw healing of any profession in the game if traited for it, the issue is more that we can’t fully spec for it and still remain relevant, plus just healing isn’t generally very meaningful except in WvW.

I think Enfeebling Blood doesnt need a blast finisher, its good as it is now, Enfeeble on the other hand could get a blast
Maybe Banshee`s Wail could makes Locust Swarm blast with every 5 pulses, starting on the first pulse

Bhawb.7408:

We have the highest raw healing of any profession in the game if traited for it

That’s just not true.

Bhawb.7408:

healing isn’t generally very meaningful except in WvW.

It is more meaningful for a class that relies on nothing but a high hp pool for damage mitigation.
Also, why would WvW be any different than sPvP?

Couple of possible blasts without need for traits:

Axe #3: blast finisher (I think this has been hoped by many)
Locust swarm: blast finisher on activation.
Enfeebling blood: blast finisher (Ye this would effectively make our DS a blast finisher too)

I said this in another thread, and I’ll say this again: One of the biggest issues with necromancers in team play is that dark fields suck. Blind on blast and leap is useless since one of the dark fields just spams blinds already. Life steal on projectile and whirl finisher is alright in theory, but without solid numbers on how much damage they do or how much healing it does, this might be something nigh useless.

My idea is to inflict vulnerability on blast and leap with dark fields. That way, when players inevitably start fighting inside of a necro well, all of their blasts and leaps will increase damage instead of just spamming unnecessary blinds. It won’t be as useful as the fire field, but at least it won’t be utterly useless.

Dark fields are fine. We just need other combos (mainly finishers) and this will allow us to actually use our dark fields properly. Lightning fields already give vuln on whirl and projectile so i dont think its realistic to ask for vuln on dark fields.

Id really like to see enfeeble become a blast so we can actually have some nice synergy in pve team comps (DS flash blasts with staff ele lava font). Also just giving us blasts on axe 3, offhand dagger and warhorn would help with prebuffing in all gametypes. Also feel like spectral grasp and reapers touch should both be 100% projectile finishers by default.

flow.6043:

Bhawb.7408:

We have the highest raw healing of any profession in the game if traited for it

That’s just not true.

Actually it is true, having both the highest base aoe heal effect pre tick and 4.4 healing power ratio on it.
Only thing stronger than it is the guardian tome instaheal which actually doesnt have a scaling since its a plain 100% heal.
Ofc if you combine multiple skills on water fields to blast finish you can potentially get higher healing, tho its wasting multiple skills on something which 1 skill could do about as well AND wasting might stacks trough fire fields.

flow.6043:

Your Lingering Marks idea is really great and it would actually be worthy of a gm spot, unlike Unholy Sanctuary which is so weak it might as well have become one of the new minor traits.

Overkillengine.6084:

Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field

A 2 sec waterfield every ~5.5sec with Staff Mastery? That, Mr Overkillengine, would be overkill.

Bhawb.7408:

Overkillengine.6084:

Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field instead and change the default Well of Blood to a water field instead of light and you’d go a long way towards improving Necro group support.

If Well of Blood was changed, I’d nerf it so you needed to blast exactly once to get the same allied healing, and the self healing was nerfed a bit stronger (so one blast would take it back to ALMOST where it is now, but just a little bit weaker on yourself).

I know you always praise this skill’s healing potential, but even with cleric’s gear the group healing is weaker than what other classes can provide, and our self healing is just pathetic in its current state. If all of our healing (not just WoB) was doubled and could heal us through Death Shroud we’d actually be in an ok-ish spot.

Investing a GM and Master trait and the gear to be a one trick pony is a not inconsiderable investment. Granted you’d be one kitten good pony but that’s the point of doing something like that. And unless something elsewhere changed on the class the lack of mobility and anti CC would still mean observant enemies would shut you down fast.

The concept of a Cleric Necro just amuses me is all.

Andele.1306:

flow.6043:

Bhawb.7408:

We have the highest raw healing of any profession in the game if traited for it

That’s just not true.

Actually it is true, having both the highest base aoe heal effect pre tick and 4.4 healing power ratio on it.
Only thing stronger than it is the guardian tome instaheal which actually doesnt have a scaling since its a plain 100% heal.
Ofc if you combine multiple skills on water fields to blast finish you can potentially get higher healing, tho its wasting multiple skills on something which 1 skill could do about as well AND wasting might stacks trough fire fields.

Actually, since Bhawb’s argument was that the raw healing of WoB should be nerfed if it was changed to be a water field, I was thinking specifically of the engineer’s Healing Turrent. I’ve seen a video where someone demonstrated how to blast the waterfield of the overcharged turret 7 times! And that would’ve been done with a pve-dungeon-viable build, not some crazy hypothetical that is never actually used.
This skill also has a 20 sec cd or even less if not detonated, not to mention that it’s not the only source of healing for engis.

On the other hand, WoB with a 40 sec cd, total weak sauce. It might have high raw numbers, but overall it heals for rather little.
You might as well argue that the engi elite supply crate heals for much because it drops 1 Healing Turret and 9 Packs of Bandages if traited, one of which healing 1k + 0.5 healing power. High numbers, but you know… 180 sec cd.

Atleast with blast finishers we’d have more access to blinds. The “super awesome” active defence we have been instructed to use on a certain other thread on profession balance forums…

spoj.9672:

Dark fields are fine. We just need other combos (mainly finishers) and this will allow us to actually use our dark fields properly. Lightning fields already give vuln on whirl and projectile so i dont think its realistic to ask for vuln on dark fields.

Smoke fields already cause blind on projectile and whirl, so I don’t think its realistic to ask for blinds on dark fields. Dark fields are something that is nearly exclusive to the necromancer, and making dark fields useful will greatly improve the combo field play for necromancers. If you really don’t like vulnerability, you can always goo with something else on leap and blast.

I think the reason the whole combo system is so underdeveloped on the necromancer is that a.net just doesn’t consider them to be a class that does that sort of thing. I’m all for improving it though, if anything it only rewards skillful play and there’s no real reason why it can’t be part of the class makeup. I have to say I absolutely love the Lingering Marks idea, that just needs to happen. The tricky part will be finding good candidates for finishers of various kinds, ideally spread out somewhat equitably throughout the weapon sets, but it looks like you’re well on your way already.

I’m especially excited about the prospect of increased access to nondamaging conditions that complement attrition through combos. Blind, weakness, and chill are all prime candidates, to the degree that they can be incorporated.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

spoj.9672:

Dark fields are fine. We just need other combos (mainly finishers) and this will allow us to actually use our dark fields properly. Lightning fields already give vuln on whirl and projectile so i dont think its realistic to ask for vuln on dark fields.

Smoke fields already cause blind on projectile and whirl, so I don’t think its realistic to ask for blinds on dark fields. Dark fields are something that is nearly exclusive to the necromancer, and making dark fields useful will greatly improve the combo field play for necromancers. If you really don’t like vulnerability, you can always goo with something else on leap and blast.

Hmm forgot about that. Vuln on leap and blast would be nice I admit. But blind is also quite nice. Only problem is it can be done very easily without combos. So i guess vuln would make dark fields more favourable.

TBH this is not an initiative worth bothering with. Combo fields are a mess and the developers acknowledge it. There are too many fields and too many finishers, and virtually 3/4 of the combos are borderline useless, entirely useless or way too niche. Water is the only one that really matters, with Fire and possibly ethereal as situational seconds. And blasts are the only finishers that really matter, because projectiles are too hard to line up and usually just inflicting conditions that the field already inflicted (which is a little useful in pve, but against any enemy with a cleanse it doesn’t really matter how many times you stack duration on that poison) and whirls being so random to be completely useless

To be meaningful, they need to do three things:
1. Merge all the fields into 4-5 max, keeping only the more meaningful combo interactions and removing all the weaker ones. Nobody wants area retaliation, guys. Nobody. Just turn all the light fields into water fields already!
2. Once you do that, merge every field/finisher interaction so that it affects both friends and foes within the aoe. For example, if you decided to merge, say, dark and smoke fields, make a blast finisher give blindness to foes and stealth to allies, with a single finisher. Also, make whirl finishers affect an AOE rather than shoot out random bolts.
3. Tone some of the stronger ones down. 2 stacks of might from fire fields, and reduce healing from water fields by half. Then, to make up for that, remove all restrictions on interatctions between fields and finishers, allowing each finisher to interact with all overlapping combo fields and each combo field top have multiple finishers act on it simultaneously.
And there you go: you made it simple, you reduced the number of interactions so it’s intuitive and easy to remember, you’ve gotten rid of the obscure and useless ones, and you’ve removed people’s ability to screw their teammates over by laying down the wrong field.

I do agree that none of my ideas will fix necromancers’ problems. The problem with us is that most of our fields and finishers come from utilities, so most builds will either have loads of one or loads of the other. That’s why Death Nova is such a good trait, cause it lets you stack a skillbar full of finishers, and gives you automatic fields to use them with – and as a bonus using the blast finishers from your minions on the poison fields from DN inflicts the only condition you can’t inflict with most standard MM builds: weakness! That’s good design there, of combo interactions letting you do something extra!

Compare that to the fields and finishers on Staff. Chilblains leaves a poison field too, but guess what? Chilblains already inflicted poison! What use is it? Are you gonna blast it with Putrid Mark for Weakness, and thereby waste your long cooldown condi cleanse which might save your skin later? Or are you gonna shoot through it with the autoattack? Which has such a slow projectile it literally can’t hit a strafing enemy, an enemy who already has poison on them from the initial Chilblains trigger? Or are you trying to hit someone BEHIND the enemy who originally triggered Chilblains? It’s just terrible, badly thought-out, and redundant.

Fix the Staff AA. It needs a MUCH faster projectile speed! Move the blast finisher from Putrid, it’s too useful for that. Not sure where it should go, probably not Mark of Blood cause it’s too short CD. Another field on MoB? Maybe. But who cares? You’d need an engi to interact with it. Fix combos in general first!

manveruppd.7601:

Compare that to the fields and finishers on Staff. Chilblains leaves a poison field too, but guess what? Chilblains already inflicted poison! What use is it? Are you gonna blast it with Putrid Mark for Weakness, and thereby waste your long cooldown condi cleanse which might save your skin later? Or are you gonna shoot through it with the autoattack? Which has such a slow projectile it literally can’t hit a strafing enemy, an enemy who already has poison on them from the initial Chilblains trigger? Or are you trying to hit someone BEHIND the enemy who originally triggered Chilblains? It’s just terrible, badly thought-out, and redundant.

Actually, in this case many fields, like staff 3 and death nova, give you more and more effect over time. Death Nova is so insane not just because of the weakness uptime, but because of how much poison it will stack just by someone standing in the field for the full duration (note: its a lot). So in Chillblain’s case, the left behind poison field increases the potency of the mark if people stand in it, creating a zoning effect (because you really don’t want to eat that much poison).

That was the original reason I didn’t put a field that passively does anything (whereas ice and poison fields apply their respective conditions) on Mark of Blood.

Well a little bit of duration stacking helps, but I’d say in pvp what counts isn’t stacking but reapplication! The original poison application won’t stay on long enough to run its full duration anyway. But in Chilblains case it doesn’t matter either way, since the only way you can reapply poison is with Deathly Grasp, which hardly ever hits, and the field only stays on for 3" or so anyway!