Guild Wars 2

#squishesforumbug

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I just calculated it out. On sub 50% targets, assuming 20 stacks of Might and Vuln (not difficult), this build will crit a 2600 armor target for an average of 10.1k (94% crit chance on them, too).

A bit of setup for that, though. Between that and the cast time, I think this kind of damage is perfectly acceptable. People will need to be wary of a Reaper and really weigh their options when they get low. In PvP, it would probably often be worth backing off and letting the point neutralize while you heal up.

Is that with or without extra crit damage? Also, why 20 of might and vuln instead of 25?

spoj.9672:

Yeah i did some quick math and the new gravedigger should be good damage wise despite our small amount of (conditional) modifiers. Not perfect for PvE considering the cast time. But it will be more spammable than heartseeker/backstab/eviscerate. It wont outclass icebow and meteor shower though.

Hey, if we have a skill that is only below the damage of some Ele skills, I, for one, am perfectly content with that

Vydahr.4285:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I just calculated it out. On sub 50% targets, assuming 20 stacks of Might and Vuln (not difficult), this build will crit a 2600 armor target for an average of 10.1k (94% crit chance on them, too).

A bit of setup for that, though. Between that and the cast time, I think this kind of damage is perfectly acceptable. People will need to be wary of a Reaper and really weigh their options when they get low. In PvP, it would probably often be worth backing off and letting the point neutralize while you heal up.

Is that with or without extra crit damage? And what percentage increases did you take into account for that number?

Close to Death, Strength of Undeath, Rune of Strength, and Vulnerability were the multipliers taken into account, as well as crit damage. I ignored the skill tooltips on the site and did the calculations myself.

I chose 20 Might and Vuln because it is easier to get up that high than actually capping it when CC and cleanses exist. 25 on both are quite possible, though (which would be 11.1k crits on average). Obviously, Protection helps, but actual armor ranges quite a lot in PvP.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Vydahr.4285:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I just calculated it out. On sub 50% targets, assuming 20 stacks of Might and Vuln (not difficult), this build will crit a 2600 armor target for an average of 10.1k (94% crit chance on them, too).

A bit of setup for that, though. Between that and the cast time, I think this kind of damage is perfectly acceptable. People will need to be wary of a Reaper and really weigh their options when they get low. In PvP, it would probably often be worth backing off and letting the point neutralize while you heal up.

Is that with or without extra crit damage? And what percentage increases did you take into account for that number?

Close to Death, Strength of Undeath, Rune of Strength, and Vulnerability were the multipliers taken into account, as well as crit damage. I ignored the skill tooltips on the site and did the calculations myself.

I chose 20 Might and Vuln because it is easier to get up that high than actually capping it when CC and cleanses exist. 25 on both are quite possible, though (which would be 11.1k crits on average). Obviously, Protection helps, but actual armor ranges quite a lot in PvP.

Still, even warriors will cringe a bit if a chunk of even 7k gets taken out of them at once, so we might actually end up being a force to reckon with

spoj.9672:

Yeah i did some quick math and the new gravedigger should be good damage wise despite our small amount of (conditional) modifiers. Not perfect for PvE considering the cast time. But it will be more spammable than heartseeker/backstab/eviscerate. It wont outclass icebow and meteor shower though.

And I’m perfectly fine with that considering those two skills are really broken PvE wise since their damage is continuous and an AoE. Praise Grenth!

Also this thought just accorded to me…if the damage radius on RS 5 is as big as the ice field…will I be able to hit a thief in their SR? And how large is the scoop on GS5?

NO THE REAPER IS TERRIBLE. GRAVEDIGGER IS USELES AND NOTHING GOOD ABOUT IT OH DEVS WHY HAVE YOU ABANDONED US?!!!?!!

(guys shut up about reaper being decent, if the devs hear our jubilation they will nerf the class again, we need to complain more.)

uhhh Yes Aren you’re right! Nothing seems to add up in our favour. This is going to all the other Necro balances all over again. There is…uhh no hope for the future of Necro. Abandon ALL HOPE!

(Good enough?) :p

Balekai.6083:

uhhh Yes Aren you’re right! Nothing seems to add up in our favour. This is going to all the other Necro balances all over again. There is…uhh no hope for the future of Necro. Abandon ALL HOPE!

(Good enough?) :p

Abbadon all hope, ye who enter.

Am I doing it right?

Zalavaaris.5329:

Does anyone complaining about the damage even play a necro? Have you all been brainwashed into thinking if you are anything but useless you are op? If we end up being the best damages in a team fight is that SO wrong that we are the best at something? Do you hate the idea of being wanted in speed clears for you decent damage numbers?

Totally agree! My gosh, I should set up a psychic hotline. I perfectly predicted this response. Too bad they don’t listen and want to fool themselves into thinking that a Necromancer doing just as good damage as thief is somehow inacceptable, unlike thief.

Seriously guys, being good…. IS GOOD. Stop complaining about something good. It’s sad that this is what happens when you keep a class below average on several (not all) aspects for too long: players begin to be scared of actually doing bigger numbers.

Heck, even doing more damage than thief can be good as long as it isn’t by much. The problem only surges when there is too much a significt gap and it cheapens team fights too much. None of those conditions are happening, so we are still okay.

Nynuwe.5893:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Does anyone complaining about the damage even play a necro? Have you all been brainwashed into thinking if you are anything but useless you are op? If we end up being the best damages in a team fight is that SO wrong that we are the best at something? Do you hate the idea of being wanted in speed clears for you decent damage numbers?

Totally agree! My gosh, I should set up a psychic hotline. I perfectly predicted this response. Too bad they don’t listen and want to fool themselves into thinking that a Necromancer doing just as good damage as thief is somehow inacceptable, unlike thief.

Seriously guys, being good…. IS GOOD. Stop complaining about something good. It’s sad that this is what happens when you keep a class below average on several (not all) aspects for too long: players begin to be scared of actually doing bigger numbers.

Heck, even doing more damage than thief can be good as long as it isn’t by much. The problem only surges when there is too much a significt gap and it cheapens team fights too much. None of those conditions are happening, so we are still okay.

Indeed and unlike thieves and mesmers, the damage we put out will be avoidable, you can see it coming and react accordingly.

spoj.9672:

Sigmoid.7082:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Vydahr.4285:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sigmoid.7082:

spoj.9672:

Sigmoid.7082:

Last but not least we are actually an event tagging beast. Because reapers onslaught would lower shroud skill cooldowns by 5s every time something dies you can spam shroud #4 for mass spin2win tagging.

Also by my math you can hit 30k+ gravediggers in pve.

Thats really not that amazing when you look at heartseeker and backstab.

But it is a sorely needed and welcomed buff.

Example damage of BS and HS. Be realistic

Zalavaaris.5329:

Good, we will be successful in high end pve and in pvp if our enemies are bad enough to get hit by our super slow abilities they deserve what’s coming to them.

Having played reaper its not as hard as it seems to land gravedigger. Especially in bigger fights where it is more useful.

It’s not hard now… when people have had zero experience with reaper… when people get obliterated they will learn real quick to look out for the animation and when that happens it will be harder to land. I promise you that. The damage is needed to make it worth taking.

In a team fight it should still be pretty punishing, especially if someone is downed and can’t move. In all that chaos, it’s extremely difficult to keep track of anything, and if Everyone dodges gravedigger, well, just means they used a dodge that they won’t have for the next attack by one of your teammates. I guarantee it’ll be useful in that scenario, and more so now that it’ll have better damage

If we don’t do insane damage though then our design is flawed. The entire purpose of this spec is so our enemies DONT want to fight us. Some may have to but it should never be a pleasure to do. Our entire fantasy with this spec hinges on high amounts of damage.

You do reaise that GD will have a coeff of 3 with the damage increase its getting.
To put it into perspective and weapon damage between one hand and two hand taken into account it would do more damage that eviscerate. Or with a tiny bit of might and vulnerability, both of which we generate very easily, you can hit almost twice the amount of damage of a backstab. This is also on an aoe and has its cooldown reset hitting anything below 50%.

This is so untrue. We dont have anywhere near the same amount of damage modifiers as warriors and especially not thieves and eles.

Using might and vuln as an arguement doesnt hold. Because both of those should be capped easily.

I’m not talking about pve in the post you quoted. In pve might and vulnerability are capped very easily. For pve i napkin mathed you should be able to hit near 50k GD which isnt bad.

this is too good to be true. i bet after this buff they will nerf. players aren’t used to Necro/Reaper doing high dmg, and when they see high number they will start complaining. i guarantee that. but i was hoping for something more on chill buffs. elite specialization of Revenant have a utility skill that pulses chill 2 times and has 3s chill duration and 15s cd. seriously? what we ask for Necro/Reaper they give it to Revenant?

that dmg nerf on Suffer made me cry. 700 dmg on pvp build. hahahaha

Vydahr.4285:

Necro players may be OP though. I mean, when you’re constantly fighting with one arm behind your back, or with weights strapped to you, or both, and their suddenly removed, well… It’ll be disorienting at first, but watch out when we get used to it ;p

This is the same argument current mesmers are using to justify the current state of their class. I am not saying reaper should or should not be nerfed, I just thought I would let you know .

otetas.9675:

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

I read that post too in the dev tracker forum.. finay some good news there!
additionally Robert Gee mentioned the axe and scepter changes could go life in the next balance patch.. the changes werent mentioned yet but it sounded like axe&scepter will get buffed soon

at least a big thanks for your work Robert Gee!!

What axe and septer changes? o.O

Seconded, what changes?

Dakunaito.9602:

this is too good to be true. i bet after this buff they will nerf. players aren’t used to Necro/Reaper doing high dmg, and when they see high number they will start complaining. i guarantee that. but i was hoping for something more on chill buffs. elite specialization of Revenant have a utility skill that pulses chill 2 times and has 3s chill duration and 15s cd. seriously? what we ask for Necro/Reaper they give it to Revenant?

that dmg nerf on Suffer made me cry. 700 dmg on pvp build. hahahaha

That is my fear as well, which is why I propose we hand out paper bags to all necro players next BWE. To help them deal with the sense of panic they will get from seeing actual big numbers. We will also have a line of Common Sense shrinks ready to slap our faces when we start mumbling self deprecating stuff.

-~Breathes in bag~“We are not supposed to be as good as thieves! What shall we do if we are no longer underdogs? We shouldn’t do big damage!”
- ~Slap~
-“Woah, what was I saying?”

Heh, if only it were that simple…

I’m not saying these changes won’t be a huge shock to the system; they will be.

But honestly it is about time the least mobile of all the classes got the damage to keep those that use us as pinatas leery of mistaking us for free kills. We will still be a slow lumbering profession, but woe to those that we can get within our grasp.

Even if they revert some (hopefully none) of the announced changes the fact that we have a dev willing to listen to us is paramount to a miracle to this old necro. Keeping us informed as to why he changed things means much more to me due to the transparency than I was remotely hopeful for even two weeks ago.

Edit: Now just make the core class more desirable in PvE, please.

Nynuwe.5893:

Dakunaito.9602:

this is too good to be true. i bet after this buff they will nerf. players aren’t used to Necro/Reaper doing high dmg, and when they see high number they will start complaining. i guarantee that. but i was hoping for something more on chill buffs. elite specialization of Revenant have a utility skill that pulses chill 2 times and has 3s chill duration and 15s cd. seriously? what we ask for Necro/Reaper they give it to Revenant?

that dmg nerf on Suffer made me cry. 700 dmg on pvp build. hahahaha

That is my fear as well, which is why I propose we hand out paper bags to all necro players next BWE. To help them deal with the sense of panic they will get from seeing actual big numbers. We will also have a line of Common Sense shrinks ready to slap our faces when we start mumbling self deprecating stuff.

-~Breathes in bag~“We are not supposed to be as good as thieves! What shall we do if we are no longer underdogs? We shouldn’t do big damage!”
- ~Slap~
-“Woah, what was I saying?”

Heh, if only it were that simple…

That was the same mentality when one of my favorite characters in smite got a simple, but Very effective change that put him from bottom tier to top tier. He turned into a solo lane bully able to heal and burst down all the other squishy Mage types. People were so confused and didn’t know how to react to his newfound power, even when they gave him a slight nerf he still proved to be a huge bully, and would just starve the enemy so they were in effective in late game.

And I posted this because….well what you said always happens whenever a bottom tier class suddenly becomes viable and powerful, a general outcry from enemies who hate that their easy score has just become a threat, and a worried panic by people who main and play the class, and offer shave nerfs so they don’t get put back in the ground.

Still, I don’t think these buffs will be too much. And we still need help in other areas, BUT I’m so glad they’re listening, giving previews/showing the improvements on the table, and we also simply won’t get everything we want because…well let’s face it if we had mobility, stability, even mid tier damage, and the health pool and tanking capabilities we have already, we’d be incredibly overpowered.

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

Vydahr.4285:

Necro players may be OP though. I mean, when you’re constantly fighting with one arm behind your back, or with weights strapped to you, or both, and their suddenly removed, well… It’ll be disorienting at first, but watch out when we get used to it ;p

This is the same argument current mesmers are using to justify the current state of their class. I am not saying reaper should or should not be nerfed, I just thought I would let you know .

Hey, just means that ChronoReapers will be an even better team ;p

TheLastNobody.8319:

That was the same mentality when one of my favorite characters in smite got a simple, but Very effective change that put him from bottom tier to top tier. He turned into a solo lane bully able to heal and burst down all the other squishy Mage types. People were so confused and didn’t know how to react to his newfound power, even when they gave him a slight nerf he still proved to be a huge bully, and would just starve the enemy so they were in effective in late game.

Hades?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TheLastNobody.8319:

That was the same mentality when one of my favorite characters in smite got a simple, but Very effective change that put him from bottom tier to top tier. He turned into a solo lane bully able to heal and burst down all the other squishy Mage types. People were so confused and didn’t know how to react to his newfound power, even when they gave him a slight nerf he still proved to be a huge bully, and would just starve the enemy so they were in effective in late game.

Hades?

……yes. ;-; I loved that game but haven’t been able to play it much after the warrior nerf from beta. He’s probably not like that nowadays though.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TheLastNobody.8319:

That was the same mentality when one of my favorite characters in smite got a simple, but Very effective change that put him from bottom tier to top tier. He turned into a solo lane bully able to heal and burst down all the other squishy Mage types. People were so confused and didn’t know how to react to his newfound power, even when they gave him a slight nerf he still proved to be a huge bully, and would just starve the enemy so they were in effective in late game.

Hades?

……yes. ;-; I loved that game but haven’t been able to play it much after the warrior nerf from beta. He’s probably not like that nowadays though.

Hades is considered top tier still. Basically has one counter in Bakasura and nobody else.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TheLastNobody.8319:

That was the same mentality when one of my favorite characters in smite got a simple, but Very effective change that put him from bottom tier to top tier. He turned into a solo lane bully able to heal and burst down all the other squishy Mage types. People were so confused and didn’t know how to react to his newfound power, even when they gave him a slight nerf he still proved to be a huge bully, and would just starve the enemy so they were in effective in late game.

Hades?

……yes. ;-; I loved that game but haven’t been able to play it much after the warrior nerf from beta. He’s probably not like that nowadays though.

Hades is considered top tier still. Basically has one counter in Bakasura and nobody else.

Ah good. Might pick it up again then.

after watching Berserk specialization this dmg buff with this low attack speed isn’t enough. Berserk has absolutely 0 drawback, “10” sec cd stunbreak skill, another leap, does high dmg+burn with fast attack speed, plus it has 10% attack speed buff while Reaper has perma attack speed debuff(i refer to long cast times). also Berserk has same trait as Chilling Nova, does more dmg(600+) and has only 2sec ICD

I don’t think many berzerkers will be scared of horror movie monsters with their new death shroud + unholy sanctuary trait.

He’ll, last beta I wasn’t too scared of charging right at the reaper with s/S + shout bow.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TheLastNobody.8319:

That was the same mentality when one of my favorite characters in smite got a simple, but Very effective change that put him from bottom tier to top tier. He turned into a solo lane bully able to heal and burst down all the other squishy Mage types. People were so confused and didn’t know how to react to his newfound power, even when they gave him a slight nerf he still proved to be a huge bully, and would just starve the enemy so they were in effective in late game.

Hades?

……yes. ;-; I loved that game but haven’t been able to play it much after the warrior nerf from beta. He’s probably not like that nowadays though.

Hades is considered top tier still. Basically has one counter in Bakasura and nobody else.

Hunters do pretty well against him, too.