Guild Wars 2

hey guys. any viable tanky/attrition builds out there? ive tried a perma regen build with healing well and cleric’s amulet, ive tried wells for near-perma protection, ive tried various siphoning builds, and i even tried investing in soul reaping. just cant get anything to work!

also, i simply havent found a viable way to make daggers work in spvp. and staff is absolutely a must. any way around this?

with full clerics how much toughness and healing power can you get

and what was your regen ticks for ?

i had this build that i thought would work. close to 2k toughness, 23k HP and near-max +healing (regen was ticking for close to 700 i think). just couldnt live through any burst.

problem was, to get here, i had to give up most of my dps.

I’m not entirely sure our class is designed for that kinda tanking. I’ve personally only mained a necro since starting this game and after trying a plethora of different builds…find pure tanking is kinda a facade as a class in relation to other classes.

I think on paper our class gives us this illusion that we can tank for days or be a bunker similar to a ele, but its kinda different in respects of the goal. Like the vitality everyone speaks so much about makes you inclined to think we’re tanky…but i think vit is more a complementary stat that is “supposed” to go hand and hand with Death Shroud and not so much intended to make us tanky.

I’ve rocked 2.4k toughness before with around 21k HP and being “tanky” isn’t all its cut out to be as a necro….we can just stall for longer than some classes depending on our build…but that’s about it. We sacrifice so much dps to become a wall that we end up as just that….a wall with little utility or practical use.

At heart our class is more of a hybrid in every respect I think. We can be slightly tanky…but dont specialize in it; we can become a condition nightmare….but don’t pigeon hole yourself into a build that can be countered easily. Realistically speaking we should be more of a versatile class that can do different things or perform different roles in combat.

If you want tanky though….you have a few options.

Wells + Staff for distance, with life siphon on wells n protection when cast u can do ok with mild toughness.

Dagger/Dagger + life drain, not popular or used i’m sure….but high toughness with signet of locust, life siphon, dark armor for every channel, reaper’s protection,etc…is not bad..add in spectral skills for ur utility here.

Last is probably MM + w/e weapon choice is best for you. You’ll get the extra 100 toughness from 5 minions out, on top of say decked out knights set and accessories and maybe staff…should be golden..more a mid-range to distance build tho.

High Burst and True Bunker both require functional minion AI. Without that you can only reasonably fake it at an amateur level. Competitively Necro is synergy/support and ground targeted rez.

Watch for Minion AI fixes and then start thinking about bunker/burst builds.

How does high burst require Minions? When I think about burst builds minions are not my first thought.

hackks.3687:

How does high burst require Minions? When I think about burst builds minions are not my first thought.

Yer a necro. Not a warlock. I know with broken AI it seems like we are warlocks but they are going to fix the minion AI problems. Then you will be able to use traits like Minions do 30% more damage and have 50% more health and siphon health on hit… etc.

You will be able to blow up a bone minion and know that it will hit for full damage every time. Your Flesh Golem will attack your target instead of the terrain object standing next to it.

Power/Minions/DeathShroud builds will be extremely powerful burst and bunker for almost the same reason. Mostly that Minion AI will work correctly.

XiL.4318:

hackks.3687:

How does high burst require Minions? When I think about burst builds minions are not my first thought.

Yer a necro. Not a warlock. I know with broken AI it seems like we are warlocks but they are going to fix the minion AI problems. Then you will be able to use traits like Minions do 30% more damage and have 50% more health and siphon health on hit… etc.

You will be able to blow up a bone minion and know that it will hit for full damage every time. Your Flesh Golem will attack your target instead of the terrain object standing next to it.

Power/Minions/DeathShroud builds will be extremely powerful burst and bunker for almost the same reason. Mostly that Minion AI will work correctly.

Maybe I am a Warlock. I don’t like minions/ai/pets at all in pvp let alone having to rely on them for my class to function to it’s fullest. The best part our skills are the utilities too. It’s really hard to think of filling up those valuable slots with…. ew…. Minions…

Sera.9750:

Dagger/Dagger + life drain, not popular or used i’m sure….but high toughness with signet of locust, life siphon, dark armor for every channel, reaper’s protection,etc…is not bad..add in spectral skills for ur utility here.

this is the exact build i tried and wanted to work so badly. the first problem was horrific dps. second, it just wasnt tanky enough. i messed around in tpvp with a condition well build (staff/scepter/dagger) with 28k vit and 1300 toughness, and it was surprisingly good.

hackks.3687:

XiL.4318:

hackks.3687:

How does high burst require Minions? When I think about burst builds minions are not my first thought.

Yer a necro. Not a warlock. I know with broken AI it seems like we are warlocks but they are going to fix the minion AI problems. Then you will be able to use traits like Minions do 30% more damage and have 50% more health and siphon health on hit… etc.

You will be able to blow up a bone minion and know that it will hit for full damage every time. Your Flesh Golem will attack your target instead of the terrain object standing next to it.

Power/Minions/DeathShroud builds will be extremely powerful burst and bunker for almost the same reason. Mostly that Minion AI will work correctly.

Maybe I am a Warlock. I don’t like minions/ai/pets at all in pvp let alone having to rely on them for my class to function to it’s fullest. The best part our skills are the utilities too. It’s really hard to think of filling up those valuable slots with…. ew…. Minions…

Yes because what kind of drooling potato fan would roll necro for the minions… pfft.

XiL.4318:

hackks.3687:

XiL.4318:

hackks.3687:

How does high burst require Minions? When I think about burst builds minions are not my first thought.

Yer a necro. Not a warlock. I know with broken AI it seems like we are warlocks but they are going to fix the minion AI problems. Then you will be able to use traits like Minions do 30% more damage and have 50% more health and siphon health on hit… etc.

You will be able to blow up a bone minion and know that it will hit for full damage every time. Your Flesh Golem will attack your target instead of the terrain object standing next to it.

Power/Minions/DeathShroud builds will be extremely powerful burst and bunker for almost the same reason. Mostly that Minion AI will work correctly.

Maybe I am a Warlock. I don’t like minions/ai/pets at all in pvp let alone having to rely on them for my class to function to it’s fullest. The best part our skills are the utilities too. It’s really hard to think of filling up those valuable slots with…. ew…. Minions…

Yes because what kind of drooling potato fan would roll necro for the minions… pfft.

What’s wrong with potatoes!?!

AND, wearing a bib is still preferable to slotting… ew… Minions…

I built a pretty decent mark/wells tank. It can go toe to toe with most champs (haven’t tried it out versus the champ karka yet) while still dishing out good AoE damage.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQFAWjQaV6haeaM8JApHPf90TP4ecxhKsLA;T8AgzymEMJZS1kiJqmMNJay2krJZTjNOb82A

(no idea why that link keeps breaking as it works fine if you copy-paste it)

3,070 Attack
only 4% crit
2453 Armor
24,527 HP

All my armor is exotic atm minus my back piece.
And I still don’t have the runes or sigil’s i want yet so theyre kind of everywhere.
Other then that…
Cleric’s Ring’s and Accessories.
Amulet is Pow, Vit, Cond
Back Piece is Pow, Tough, Vit
Staff is Power, Vit, Cond
My armor is split 3 pieces of Pow, Tough, Vit and 3 pieces Pow, Vit, Cond
For my skills I use
-Signet of Spite for added power and the conditions it applies.
-Signet of Undeath (probably the most important to refill the DS bar as much as possible)
-3rd skill is the one I switch the most.

My Traits are 5, 0, 20, 15, 30, with
-Bigger AoE for Mark’s (b/c I always run Staff)
-Lose a Condition when you go into DS
-Siphoning Health 50% more effective (this trait is whatever for me, don’t have a good reason why I use it.)
-25% Slower Life Force drain in Death Shroud
-Recharge DS skills 15% faster
-DS recharges 50% faster.

Sorry if my post is sloppy, trying to rush this. I love this build, seems like I very rarely die unless I do something stupid. The biggest key to the build is use and abuse DS as much as possible. I always just pop DS just to use Life Transfer and get the AoE damage out when I’m surrounded then pop back out of DS to save life force. Use and abuse to remove conditions as well. Try it out or message me in game sometime.

Oh, and I even look like a tank!

Yeah, I agree with the above post. I’d say the best way to tank would be to abuse DS and staff perma regen/chill/condition transfer/fear with life force gain from staff marks. Investing 30 in soul reaping also helps your survivability a lot with last grasp and close to death.

Personally I think running spectral skills does a lot more to improve survivability than wells. Protection from spectral armour/wall, swiftness and teleport from spectral walk and life force gain from armour and walk are much more useful than 3 second protection from wells and hoping they stand in your well of darkness.

Very tanky:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/d7gv3f8

Fairly tanky:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/buhj4ko

Power based:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cxrlk85

thanks mammoth. the last one looks good. i played around with variations of the first one, and decided that anything with less than 25-26k health is no go. 20k health does not allow for a lot of mistakes, and after u pop all your cd’s on that one thief, youre dead when his buddy comes. that was my experience. it looked amazing on paper though…any tips?

nerva.7940:

thanks mammoth. the last one looks good. i played around with variations of the first one, and decided that anything with less than 25-26k health is no go. 20k health does not allow for a lot of mistakes, and after u pop all your cd’s on that one thief, youre dead when his buddy comes. that was my experience. it looked amazing on paper though…any tips?

I think the second one is actually going to be closer to what you’re looking for since it does a bit more damage.

The third one I only use on map 3 when I’m pugging frees without an ele, to kill the treb and help out in mid, and I usually use soldiers instead of clerics, but 300+ regen ticks for everyone are nice. The damage is quite low, you just take advantage of the golem charge mechanics to kill treb fast, and nothing can kill you while you’re at it.

The first one is basically a bunker. You can eventually kill something if neither of you gets backup for a long, long time, but you should have no trouble surviving against 2-3 guys for long enough that your team either comes and blows them up, or 2caps the other points. I never run it on sides because portal, and I never run it on mid because wards, so I never run it. Something like it could probably be run mid on map 2 though.

I think even if portal gets hit as hard as it needs to, engis and eles will still be better on sides, because they can kill roamers much faster in their bunker specs, and have more mobility, allowing them to support mid when needed.

thanks man. the bunker build is amazing! too bad about it being lackluster compared to other bunker specs.

@Mammoth

I listened to you yesterday, and tried some tank build with wells and all.

Build which involve DS swapping : Sure I could bunker a 1vs1 for a long time, but as soon as another one would come, dead. in sPvP, it’s hard to start a fight with a full life force, and your DS HP seems to drop really fast. I had 28k hp and thief could drain my DS in 2-3 sec.

Build with wells healing : Same thing. But it was beter then DS swapping. I could be doing good, but as soon as I was fighting somoene with a knockback, I was dead. Some burst like thief would outdamage my healing and proctection from wells.

Both build had 0 damage at all. I wanted a build that could hold point for a very long point, like I could do with my guardian, engineer and ranger (Raaaaanger!?).

Wasn’t able to accomplish that. I think necro miss that hard dodge/block mecanism to survive longer.

Engi got knockback, block and reflect. Guardian got buff,big heals, shield, knockback. Ranger got infinite dodge, pet block and can still do a good amount of damage.

Like lettuce said in another post, I don’t think necro are made to be bunker. They are just lest efficient then other. We just soak damage, and try to outheal them with long cooldown wells.

What worked better for me was going wells healing and staff traits + damage gear.

With around 25k hp and 2.3k armor, I could dish a large amount of damage and still be tanky a bit.

The playstile is different, you stay behind and throw your marks/wells around. But it was a lot more effective for me.

gonna have to disagree, based on what ive experienced. i mained a ranger since beta, and rangers cant bunk period, so u cant even compare the two. im having lots of success taking on 2-3 people for many minutes with mammoth’s first build.

i find wells provide so much utility for the team, whereas ele and engi bunkers are more selfish. necro may not have KB, but we have 2 chills, 2 fears and godmode (Plague). also, we can pulse aoe blind for 25 seconds >.< dont see other bunkers doing that.

What kind of Ranger bunker did you use?

The only competitive for Ranger right now in sPvP is the Regen Bunker.

Perma protection, perma vigor, and huge regen.

If you play vs good player, they will just exit the well or the plague range, and kill you. What you don’t hit, doesn’t heal you.

yea ive been playing BM for a month or so. it’s crap, compared to everything else thats out there.

and why would they be exiting the plague and wells if these abilities cover the entire point? if they want the point, they have to b in the wells. if they dont want the point, youre winning.

Because you ether contest the point for 2-3 min with the necro, and risk dead. Or exit the point, kill the necro in 20sec, and take the point.

Other then plague, wells last only 5 sec, that’s a very short time to wait to contest the point. And many time they can still contest it, as well are not always covering everything.

A bunker necro that doesn’t hit anything is dead.

>.< cant say i understand what youre saying. good luck!

Sorry man, having trouble wording my thought sometime.

You don’t have to stay in the contested point, I don’t know why people does it when fighting necro.

But people that kicked my kitten they stayed outside of my wells, and bursted me.

But I think we won’t agree on it, it’s ok. But just stated my opinion, that necro aren’t as good bunker as a good Ranger, guardian, elem, Engineer.

If you do better then me, all good. :0 I might also be bad at bunkering!

4 wells on low cooldown = 12 seconds of protection >.<

if youre having problems with ranged, switch to your staff (unblockable marks) to fear and chill them. once your life force has built up, go DS, fear and chill them again. mesmers are by far the toughest, but staff takes care of it quite nicely.

rangers simply dont qualify as bunkers. the regen evasion beastmaster has less than 20k HP and can be burst down very easily once you burn through your evasion moves and dodge rolls.

Might not be the same build?

What about the perma protection you get from protect spirit?

capping a point takes 10 sec. taking a captured point takes 15 sec. assuming it’s not contested.

if you were to try and take a contested node they wouldn’t be obligated to stand on it throughout the course of the fight. They just can’t let you stand on it by yourself for 15 cumulative seconds. That’s a lot of wiggle room for the defender to be able to jump on and off the point as needed and your 2 dmg wells only last for 10 sec when dropped successively – and considering how tanky you are that’s not a lot of pressure. Once you’re in plague form you won’t hit for anything so he can just stand there for 18 sec with you spamming whatever you like and he’d still never concede the node before yours/his teammates show up.

If its a matter of you defending the point, then any heavy CC build will just knock you clear out of the point long enough to neutralize, and wait out plague form before starting in with the dmg.

Tanky/Bunker necros are not all that strong in PvP atm IMO

Nerva care to show me the Ranger bunker build you used?

kard, sent PM. let’s get back on topic.

@hackks
ive only had a day to test this, but so far, im finding bunker necros very strong. you have 3 seconds of near-on-demand stability. instead of KB, you have two fears on a short CD that if chained properly can cause the point to flip. as mammoth stated though, the only downside i see is utter lack of mobility.

if someone is “waiting out” Plague, that’s 20 seconds that youre denying the point for…what more could you want? it’s also used for assaulting the point. pbaoe blind while the two teams are fighting would mitigate a huge portion of the other team’s damage.

Kardiamond.6952:

…

I got most of my QPs with the second build up there. Or you could take a look at Xelfers builds, he’s got a lot more QPs than me:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;0_-34;1IkI0p33JkJ0;9;6JJT;413-27-09AW-k6W;1jwmAjwmA9cp

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;044Z;2IkI0p3-KkJ0;9;5TJJ;213A13-27;2KZV8;2hoHAhom92Vn

Attrition play clearly works reasonably well (harhar) on necros.

that first one is like a really offensive bunker, and does more damage against single target. not as much protection though. love it.

now if power builds were only as good as condition builds….

best way to tank is not through healing and stacked toughness, but through faster LF generation.

with full SR traits, you can be in DS every 7 seconds or so with a full bar. Use spectral utilities, because when you’re hit with them on, you generate an ungodly amount of LF.

then swap to staff and make sure you’ve stacked power.. you should do 2-3k per hit on DS auto alone.

I can’t remember which amulet gives the proper stats, but the one with high power and high toughness, with moderate precision (20/x/x/x/30) will get you a long way if you really want a dagger/x + staff build for spvp.

although, i recommend a condition build for sPvP. positioning becomes a harder factor in PvP and with a dagger necro, that will make life very difficult.

7 seconds is an eternity in spvp. you definitely need loads of toughness and healing to get you through between the DS’s

Mammoth.1975:

Kardiamond.6952:

…

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;0_-34;1IkI0p33JkJ0;9;6JJT;413-27-09AW-k6W;1jwmAjwmA9cp

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;044Z;2IkI0p3-KkJ0;9;5TJJ;213A13-27;2KZV8;2hoHAhom92Vn

Attrition play clearly works reasonably well (harhar) on necros.

hey i love that first build, been playing with it for a day. it’s amazing for dueling and bunker-busting. sustain is pretty high, and im actually able to drop single targets much faster. for some reason i seem to stay alive for longer compared to the full well build, even though i have significantly less protection and protection uptime >.<

@Mammoth

Like nerva said, the first build seems more like an condimancer then a bunker build?

I’m sure it must be efficient, since sPvP are ether Well-o-mancer or Condimancer.

Mammoth do you have fraps? I would be happy if you could show us a video of you Pvping. You seems to know a lot about bunker builds!

I had issue with DS centric build, as in PvP when you face a burst, they seems to cut thru it like butter.