Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

Kinda been having guild wars 1 nostalgia a lot recently and been looking at a lot of skills of the necromancer and how not only curses but every single attribute had some form of sacrifice to it.

Right now everything is being pushed into corruption alone for that sacrifice theme which although for the time being is fine where I would prefer it being more prevalent among all the specializations for necromancer but corruption right now feel very weak.

Cultists fervor has been translated somewhat into master of corruption but what of other iconic spells from gw1?

How about contagion, virulence, offering of blood and so many other spells that are in curses or not feel they could fix weaknesses curses and vice versa for the other specializations now face.

So lets all hear em folks lets get cracking eh?

Nothing from GW1 would fix our place in GW2, as our issues are largely based on the new mechanics of GW2 not playing well with the class. There are definitely some cool skills that could get inspiration from GW1, but none of them would fix our core issues.

If they brought back hexes, that could fix the necromancer in GW2.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

If they brought back hexes, that could fix the necromancer in GW2.

I tend to disagree, there isn’t one thing that will fix the necromancer class. A lot of skills and traits need changing. Until the necromancer can fill more of the support and utility rolls in both pvp and pve they won’t be included in teamcomps. Basic things like projectile destruction, might stacking, unique buffs, safe stomps, on point presence, mobility and burst will always be needed. Something like hexes, which I assume would be unique unremovable debuffs, could help a lot to bring unique utility, but mesmers bring unique utility and 5-6 other things.

That was actually the original problem with dhummfire. Terror and burning together was so much damage it was worth bringing a necro, but you still needed backup to support that necro. In the recent metas, classes fill many roles, and one strong thing isn’t enough to justify a whole class (which is why you don’t bring necros currently just for boon corruption or aoe damage). I’d love to see hexes, but a lot of the base skills need to change to do just that extra bit more first.

The gameplay from GW1 is fondamentaly different than the gameplay of GW2. The profession as well are fondamentaly different. For exemple, mesmers from GW2 ain’t mesmers from GW1.

None of the things from GW1 could “fix” things of GW2 because these are 2 differents game. Of course you can see similarities in skills/traits but in the end the effect are totally differents.

If they brought back hexes, that could fix the necromancer in GW2.

It won’t. Hexes are technically conditions in GW2, be it a debilitating hex (replaced by weakness, vulnerability, blind, cripple, slow, chill), a degenerative hex (replaced by bleed, poison, torment, burn) or even a reactive hex (replaced by confusion).

What the necromancer need to be fixed are skills and trait that fit in the game, not something that look cool and shiny (I should say “dark” for a necromancer) but don’t have any place in a game that don’t support it.

Corruption : The idea of sacrifice was ok in GW1 because there were dedicated healer in this game, you could afford to “sacrifice” life for strong support/damage. In GW2, healing spec being nerfed to oblivion to avoid the neverending GW1 PvP match, it’s another story. You just can’t afford to waste your life for abysmal effect. On the other hand, a few traits intelligents traits supporting the idea of “sacrifice” could change everything but MoC happened.

Siphon : The fact that necromancer’s siphon are balanced around “vampiric ritual” is one of the most displeasing thing as a necromancer. Oh, I won’t say it doesn’t work when you use this trait, it’s even awesome how much survivability we gain but… there is nothing “intelligent” in “vampiric ritual”. You just drop god mode wells that are weak without the trait…

Death shroud : I have a love/hate relation with this mechanism. The point is that I love the fact that I can use it to bear a lot of beating from small fry that hit like wet noodles. But I litterally hate it’s weakness against hard hitting things and the poor design of the 2 first skills.

Minions : GW2 minions and GW1 minions are from different galaxy… Come on, while GW1 minions were really aggressive while being summoned from dead, GW2 minions are dead while being summoned from nothing. The idea behind the actives skills aren’t bad in themselves but just doesn’t work in the game as it is. This would probably need as much rework then ranger’s spirit.

Signet : Well… they were bad. They suffered from their long cool down and barelly any use except for minor support out of “signet builds”. With the change they undergone, they became just to good at the same time : lowered cool down, interesting effect added, passive proc… etc. For me (even if i like the way they are now) it was just to much.

I could continue this review for a long time but i’d like to point out the very first hint where I think there is a real need to work.
The real imbalance that make the necromancer “subpar” come mostly from general mechanism and poor balance choice. Let me explain, the necromancer could be good if a dark field or a poison field had the same value than a fire field or a water field. Again, a necromancer could be good if he has the tools necessary to exploit it’s combo fields (combo finisher). A Necromancer, as a profession, could be balanced if there wasn’t this imbalance between skill type and mechanisms.

Imo there is a solution: splitting pvp/pve skills. Necro (conditions, more specifically) is the perfect example of why that needs to happen. Necro underperforms in PVE because the devs seem afraid of what necros can do in PVP (for example, nerfing the hell out of Dhuumfire). We end up getting this extreme give/take balance approach to the class because ANET is trying to balance each class with each other AND across different game modes. If GW1 has taught us anything, it’s that having one skill operate the same in both pve and pvp contexts is either a recipe for uselessness or OPness.

Javonovich.5280:

Imo there is a solution: splitting pvp/pve skills. Necro (conditions, more specifically) is the perfect example of why that needs to happen. Necro underperforms in PVE because the devs seem afraid of what necros can do in PVP (for example, nerfing the hell out of Dhuumfire). We end up getting this extreme give/take balance approach to the class because ANET is trying to balance each class with each other AND across different game modes. If GW1 has taught us anything, it’s that having one skill operate the same in both pve and pvp contexts is either a recipe for uselessness or OPness.

Pretty much this. Good example are the new coming Reaper shouts. They would be op in PvE with low cd because of trait that shortens the cd on hit (and you can easily hit that 5 enemies on dungeons etc.) but loose all effectiveness in PvP due to the fact that it is nearly impossible to land kittens with long cast time. Splitting these into PvX varriants would make it so much easier for devs to balance them out. Same goes for many others skills.

I don’t have GW1 nostalgia.

GW1 necros had the following advantages

(1) minion army
(2) great sustained ranged DPS in long fights due to superior energy management
(3) Spiteful spirit (essentially the AoE damage that worked the best due to mob AI)

none of those worked in pvP. In Pvp you had

(1) gimmicky blood or hex spike builds (unviable in most meta)
(2) builds that used hexes to try and shutdown melee (but GW1 melee was bad against top players. using skills rooted you).
(3) builds that overwhelmed healers with AoE conditions and hexes (the key condition was Rotting Flesh/disease)

Anet has already said that the GW2 engine can’t handle disease / Rotting Flesh

Most balanced teams didn’t have a necromancer and necromancer DPS was terrible. (Or if they did have a necromancer, it was using ritualist or monk skills). Necomancers were sitting ducks if focused or against ranged classes (sounds familiar). Their long cast times made them useless and easy to interrupt (sounds familiar). I thought necromancers could have gotten a buff even in guild wars 1.

In PvE, the class needs something like what minions were to fill in DPS gaps. Whats left of the Pvp role of melee shutdown is basically just the Weakening shroud trait. Epidemic still isn’t any good, but it’s all that’s left of “AoE condition and hex overload.”

I say anet leave the past in the past and focus on what is: Death shroud is a burst mechanic. Make it bustier.

On the other hand I strongly believe the concept of sacrifice can be something to push further (and better) than current corruptions. In PvE, necro underperform because of low damage + group utilities, but the reason for this low damage is the high (passive) sustain of the class. They don’t dare pushing the DPS since we resist too well (pun?). PvE could work better with a trait increasing SIGNIFICANTLY the DS damage at the cost of increased LF cost, reducing sustain but increasing DPS (getting full LF in PvE is super easy anyway). Out of LF, some improved Blood is power version which adds a non-might type damage buff to everyone could work well. I like BiP because it is very thematic and yet supports team, it is just bad currently because others apply might better and we already cap without it.

While what I mentioned was PvE based, similar mechanics would work also in PvP if you want to be a glass cannon, but that will not fix the lack of damage negation.

nekretaal.6485:

Make it bustier.

I posted this in another thread, but it seems appropriate here.

http://lonewolf64.deviantart.com/art/Necromancer-Summon-Abomination-56629454

Is that busty enough for you?