Guild Wars 2

Hello, I have a level 80 necro and I was wondering if anyone else feels the same way I do about necromancers. I feel like we arent really needed in dungeons because we cant do zerker builds as well as warriors and thieves. We cant really do support as well as guardian. And when we go to our most common build condition we dont do that much damage and the bleed is always stacked. I also think we arent really needed in other big group events b/c of bleed stack and we get out dpsed by a couple other classes. So I was thinking of switching to main a guard b/c I love to run dungeons and I fell when ever I enter a group people dont really prefer necromancers. They prefer warriors guards and mesmers over us. I feel like necromancers dont really bring anything bring anything to the table. I made the gift of fortune and mastery and I was going to make incinerator (so I can have a legendary for condition build and zerker build) but Im thinking of switching my legendary, and my main class to something different, something more useful.
I also dont want to make a legendary for a class that is a roller coaster of buffs and nerfs.
Does anyone feel the same way?

I kind of feel the same way, necro’s can be used for wells.. but in a sense i feel like we are a very selfish class compared to other classes that can provide other buffs. We do have condition removal which is nice but yes I am leveling a necro at the moment and I honestly am kind of scared to keep leveling him because it is such a rollercoaster of nerfs/buffs. One second we are underpowered and cannot get a kill, the next we are extremely overpowered.

pretty much , the liadra fight shows that clearly with how little necro is good for. we have little survivability , which our main one just got destroyed (DS dmg overflowing into the health pool) since we dont have easy access (or any real access) to stuff like vigor , invuln , evades , etc. that other classes can whip out (usually more then 1 of in some cases) , we dont offer as great group support (thief being just below us in that category since theyre mostly just raw dps) beyond well builds (and a boss aoe will make that lol thanks for the easy target necro) . minion master builds also useless in dungeons for that other type of support that was great in guild wars 1 due to all the aoe spam in dungeons (specifically bosses mind you) the game needs less aoe spam for that to happen (would actually be good for rangers and turret engineers , and mesmers that use illusions / phantasms as well tbh). other then condition / powermancer builds (and lol a thief can out dps us there , lets face it. you wanna say condition necros are god mode in pvp? learn how to kill one , theyre beyond easy as hell , powermancer can kill them , a good thief can drop them , a gaurdian thats condition cleansing can give them a good fight as well). its sad cause this has always been my favorite class (beyond Ritualist and Dervish from GW1 , and i played MM build for necro so……yea….). its a shame to see necro treated like its nothing , cause it was a great class in its previous version.

mattattack.1673:

I kind of feel the same way, necro’s can be used for wells.. but in a sense i feel like we are a very selfish class compared to other classes that can provide other buffs. We do have condition removal which is nice but yes I am leveling a necro at the moment and I honestly am kind of scared to keep leveling him because it is such a rollercoaster of nerfs/buffs. One second we are underpowered and cannot get a kill, the next we are extremely overpowered.

weve never been that extremely over powered , the ppl that say it never learned how to kill a condition necro and started whining when we were given burning as well (no necro asked for that btw , so thx for that needless addition as a reason to nerf us)

No class is really NEEDED are they? I love having a necro around and I love running mine. They offer some of the strongest AoEs in the game I feel. Don’t worry some of us still love you guys.

Unfortunately necros are usualy kick on sight when ttrying to get into a pug group

mintkola.3756:

Unfortunately necros are usualy kick on sight when ttrying to get into a pug group

Yes, that explains why I was in a pug group with 3 necros earlier today until one of them turned out to be from an EU server.

Necros are bit light on ally support unless we specifically build for it, but we also have some of the strongest enemy debuffing in the game. Maybe we can’t grant AoE Stability, but we can keep a group of mobs nearly permablinded and permaweakened instead.

Blaine Tog.8304:

mintkola.3756:

Unfortunately necros are usualy kick on sight when ttrying to get into a pug group

Yes, that explains why I was in a pug group with 3 necros earlier today until one of them turned out to be from an EU server.

Necros are bit light on ally support unless we specifically build for it, but we also have some of the strongest enemy debuffing in the game. Maybe we can’t grant AoE Stability, but we can keep a group of mobs nearly permablinded and permaweakened instead.

So there were 3 of u… hope u all werent condition spec. Which equals to 1 necro being there instead of 3.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Blaine Tog.8304:

mintkola.3756:

Unfortunately necros are usualy kick on sight when ttrying to get into a pug group

Yes, that explains why I was in a pug group with 3 necros earlier today until one of them turned out to be from an EU server.

Necros are bit light on ally support unless we specifically build for it, but we also have some of the strongest enemy debuffing in the game. Maybe we can’t grant AoE Stability, but we can keep a group of mobs nearly permablinded and permaweakened instead.

So there were 3 of u… hope u all werent condition spec. Which equals to 1 necro being there instead of 3.

Two of us (the EU guy obviously couldn’t enter the dungeon). And I actually really like running with one other condi-specced player. Makes for some extremely strong Epidemics. Necros can’t usually hit the bleed cap on our own anyway.

My point is, rumors of Necro discrimination are greatly exaggerated. Everyone else thinks we’re hella OP since the Dhuumfire patch, too, so you’re even less likely to run into bottom-dwellers who’ll kick Necros.

Ok some people were thinking along the lines as I was that we are not helpful nor usefull… I do usually get the eyes rolling when I jump into a pug arah/ta/cof run or and dungeon for that matter. I guess Ill just powercraft a guardian since they seem the most useful nowadays. I still dont know what I should do with my 2 gifts…. Necro was fun for 11 months…

Necromancers are fun for utility, reliability and mob control, but most of the community doesnt see that as important (for now, with the new mob and encounter designs i think itll change within 4 maybe 5 months).

I think conditions need a rework. In its current state its completely useless on crowded pve fights, while still dominating on pvp.

For necros and pve ;
-Bleed cap should be increased or removed completely with the addition of personal bleed cap (Vulnerability cap could also be removed or increased for more awesomeness.);
-Poison should be altered with stacking increased damage, creating whole new builds (http://gw2.hazno.net/ This link proves how weak poison is compared to other conditions.);
-Burning should be removed from necros;
-Minions need aoe damage mitigation;

For necros and pvp ;
-A new stat (or vitality) should offer condition damage reduction or lower condition duration;
-Torment traits should be added and maybe a skill that allows more torment generation to create more build options (tormentmancer);

There is a lot more we can talk about, and a lot more we can change. Of course most of these may be wrong changes, but they merely point out whats lacking in game.

I believe conditions have great potential but in its current state, its not useful in PvE and necromancer being the king of conditions is also considered useless.

Even our power build relies on vulnerability which is hindered by vulnerability cap, or fails on bosses that remove conditions (coe p1 alpha,cof p1 last boss)

I hope i could make my point.
All the best.

I doubt the bleed cap is going anywhere anytime soon since it has serious implications on server load, making it a technical problem rather than a mere balance issue.

Perhaps the cap could be raised for champions and in dungeons with minimal increase to the server load. I dunno, it’s difficult to speculate without having all Anet’s data and server knowledge.

That said, I do think people underestimate the Condi Necro in PvE. When you have a few dozen players wailing away on a boss, yeah, your bleeds probably aren’t going to do much to the boss, but every 15 seconds you’ll be able to turn that boss into a ridiculously strong condi nuke that will cause any adds to melt. Epidemic alone puts the Necro in a much better spot for group play than virtually any other profession’s condi specs (and of course, no other professions have Terror).

I never really had an issue with necromancers “contributing” to the team as a whole.

Whenever I run a condition build, I give the whole team an AoE condition transfer as well as regen, and also I spread disabling + damaging conditions to everything in the room. I also use spectral wall to give everyone protection, and also I use it to do a lot of terror damage to groups of enemies trying to run past it. With chill, cripple, blind, weakness, and vulnerability being duplicated en masse every 15 seconds on a condition necro, they are definitely worth bringing to the table.

I do plenty on the power necro as well. On power necro I typically run 3 wells with the ritual of protection trait, so I have 3 skills that give AoE protection. One well causes vulnerability, which also stacks with focus vulnerability and life blast vulnerability to be quite high when fighting enemies. Another well strips boons in an AoE while doing damage, which is really useful against something like the dredge, who stack protection on themselves. The last well is a stun breaker that converts conditions on teammates, which is actually better than cleansing.

No matter what necro I’m running, I always have access to Tainted Shackles, Plague Form, and Flesh Golem. The golem is an excellent cone stun that does damage while stripping a lot of defiant stacks from an enemy. Plague form is great for tanking several hits while disabling enemies. Tainted Shackles is a large AoE immobilize, which an always help out a group, and due to the relative rarity of torment it doesn’t interfere with condition builds.

For specific fights, necros also have a toolbox of things they can use. If they need to pull, Spectral Grasp does this while causing chill. If they need to revive, Signet of Undeath does this quite nicely. For enemies with devastating boons, well of corruption and corrupt boon are always a plus. Against enemies that attack rapidly and don’t lump all of their power into single attacks, necromancers can be quite durable. Protection stacking and 2 health bars gives quite the statistical clout.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I do plenty on the power necro as well. On power necro I typically run 3 wells with the ritual of protection trait, so I have 3 skills that give AoE protection.

For specific fights, necros also have a toolbox of things they can use. If they need to pull, Spectral Grasp does this while causing chill. If they need to revive, Signet of Undeath does this quite nicely. For enemies with devastating boons, well of corruption and corrupt boon are always a plus. Against enemies that attack rapidly and don’t lump all of their power into single attacks, necromancers can be quite durable. Protection stacking and 2 health bars gives quite the statistical clout.

You all know i love the power and control over the enemy you have as a necro, but ritual of protection is kinda a bad trait looking akittens effective cooldown pre requirement, Signet of Undeath was a tricky thing even before the nerf, now its plain safer to bring bring a warrior, ranger or ele (longer cast, but more flexibility) if you really need a rez that much.
CB is worthless in pve (WoC isnt but just saying its not really a option anymore).
Also if you got a thief, mesmer or warrior, unless the enemy has spamming effects of protection/retal, just let them steal the buffs instead of ripping them.
Honestly best 3 things we can provide is WoB, Permachill and a good Epi vs zerg like mobs.

If PvE dungeons are your prefered content, reroll.

It really is that simple. Balance in that area has been terrible from the start with little to no improvements so far and changes are designed around sPvP/tPvP exclusively.

OP maybe you should add the Word “PvE” somewhere in the title, cause even if they not needed as you say in Dungeons the sure kick kitten in all forms of PvP atm. So they are needed in “game”

Your right necro isnt wanted in a dungeon grp were just one of those its doable classes.

I barely play anymore and only join in guild events, its sad to se people having to reroll to be usefull ( optimal ) for the group. I did make warrior just to try it out and the difference is to much cleave , team buffing , vigor , endurance regen and in general power being faar better in dungeons / pve and then you have your necro who lacks in everything.

Dhumfire was a horrible thing for us to get.
If they want necro to be usefull anet have to drop the idea that Deathshroud can compensate for EVERYTHING.

Run hybrid and whoop kitten

blurps.2340:

If PvE dungeons are your prefered content, reroll.

It really is that simple. Balance in that area has been terrible from the start with little to no improvements so far and changes are designed around sPvP/tPvP exclusively.

I would just add, if your goal is to be optimal, reroll. I got my dungeon master title using almost exclusively my necro, because its the class i have the most fun playing. In a pug/unoptimized group, a necromancer will do just as well as all the shout heal warriors and rangers who tell you their class "doesn’t go into melee, it’s called "range"r for a reason." However, we lack group utility, and what we have as strengths to counter act that (debuffing and condi damage) are severely handicapped by boss mechanics and condi caps. Relative to every other class in terms of dungeons, we are weakest. This post by Nike from DnT I think sums it up -

“t1: War,thief,Guard, ranger
t2: mesmer, ele, engineer
t3: necro
…
Tier 3 is the necro. They have no useful team utility, and their dps isn’t anything special. Put it this way: even if their DPS was equal to a Thief or warrior you still wouldn’t bring one because their team-utility is essentially zero. Imagining you have the four t1 professions covered, why would you ever bring a Necro ahead of one of the t2, in what possible scenario would that be optimal?”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Best-to-worst-dungeon-dps-classes/page/2#post2567508

We are capabile, we can manage in dungeons, but it’s definely not our strength.

dont think a ranger out dps my necro build… (100% crit chance, a lot of crit damage and power)

We have no main ‘role’ in PvE.

I’ve moved over to a Power & DeathShroud build, P/P/T gear, Divinity runes.
Was a little weird at first, but have fallen in love with it.

It still dose super huge AoE damage. Decent Single, constantly stacking Vuln. Can keep constant regen up on meele with staff, aswell as it’s other nice bits (Even tho poison & putrid mark are buggy at the moment, and not very group helpful)
Then, it dose some nice ‘burst support’.
After that, when something picks on me like a boss, I’m a viable tank. Stability & Weak blood on DS, is a godsent.

I do think we really need Vigor on crit, or some sort of Endurance regen/a block/invul to keep up with other class’s in long boss fights.

Anyway, as playing a ‘attrition’ necro, I do very decent damage, help the party with tricky stuff & am finding I’m loved by the end of the run. I think Condi necros, and glass cannon hybrids don’t work well in lost of instances, and other class’s are easier to play badly and be useful to the group.

Blaine Tog.8304:

mintkola.3756:

Unfortunately necros are usualy kick on sight when ttrying to get into a pug group

Yes, that explains why I was in a pug group with 3 necros earlier today until one of them turned out to be from an EU server.

Necros are bit light on ally support unless we specifically build for it, but we also have some of the strongest enemy debuffing in the game. Maybe we can’t grant AoE Stability, but we can keep a group of mobs nearly permablinded and permaweakened instead.

yes let me think of that when i go up against a champ that doesnt get affected like trash mobs and these debuffs like you say…..

Necro is definitely the best aoe char in the game, Epidemic alone is AMAZING for PVE content as it insta kill most reg and veteran mobs (if you have stacked your condis right). Necros also have the ability to switch from a condi build to a dps burst build for single target play ;just in case you have another condi on the team and only need to keep up 25 stacks. ((PS. Necros can get about 20 stacks of bleed on their own….) Plus using a hybrid build means on top of stacking bleeds poisons and burns, we stack a good amount of vulnerability that helps the whole team.

Even just outside of that, necros have fear to scare away bosses that are attacking a char trying to revive, and chill that can give a healer more time, stop a boss from slamming your “tank”, or sticking a boss in place ie. important in fractals, or shutting down thieves in pvp. And if you really wanna be team friendly… Signet of the undead generates life force (good for a burst dps build) and then will revive up tp 3 chars in an aoe….. They can condi transfer from allies to themselves and then send them at an enemy and keep them there.

Really a Necros main problem is the conditions build is a VERY POPULAR BUILD, …. rangers run it , engineers run it too, necros run it, and even thieves run it….. So finding a versatile build is on you…….as is being useful to a team….. I have never been insta kicked from a group for just being a necro….. I have however been kicked once after my party decided to go all zerg warriors of which I have non.

I’ve said it many times. Necro are good in pve UNTIL you try the serious stuff. My condition necro melts bosses in Gauntlet while I see other’s warrior dodging every 2 secs, tanky guardian that can’t kill within the time.

Ofc that’s until Liadra, which is the perfect example of end game pve showing that dodge is everything. And as you mention, we lacks team support, can’t stack might. Vul is usually maxed if more than 1 warrior in group, that makes our whole axe useless. Control is useless in PVE because of defiant.

I was one of those, lol you don’t need warrior to run cof people. But once you try other classes, you know how much better they are doing the same job we do.

Nexromancers have bottom tier DPS (things like terror not doing any damage to bosses doesn’t help), and little utility other than maybe chills and cripples for certain bosses.

Of course, the last time I was on one of these bosses, the leader dropped a tray of food that let everybody chill on a crit, so I was effectively bringing nothing special to the fight.

If you want to see your Necromancer akittens best, run with the zerg in the pavilion. If the gauntlet highlights Necromancer combat mobility weakness, the pavillion zergs highlight its strength. Necromancer AoE is absolutely devestating to trash mobs.

Running with the zerg reminded me of the elder days of farming in Orr. I have probably salvaged more than 250 pieces of junk equipment in the last two days just from the pavillion even though most of yesterday I did the balloon quests. Today, I will face the gauntlet… after work and the usual Thursday night pub meeting.

The reduced combat mobility and burst damage skills and for Necromancer means it suffers in many situations but it excells in trash mob crowd control. Use it where it is best. I know other players in the zerg noticed how Necromancers just waded into the crowd and mobs melted all over. Death shroud, marks, wells, and epidemic shredded veterans, too. I had particular fun using epidemic on a champion and watching freshly spawned trash fall under stacks of conditions.

nekretaal.6485:

Nexromancers have bottom tier DPS (things like terror not doing any damage to bosses doesn’t help), and little utility other than maybe chills and cripples for certain bosses.

Of course, the last time I was on one of these bosses, the leader dropped a tray of food that let everybody chill on a crit, so I was effectively bringing nothing special to the fight.

Necros can and do sustain higher dps than full glass guardians, anything that isnt a arcane build ele and non spirit/shortbow rangers.
From all the professions necromancers have the highest team hp utpime sustain (perma aoe chill, almost perma weakeness/permanent if cpc slotted in, high blind uptime, 4 strong and easy hard ccs/dont work on bosses but 3 are aoe so good mob blocks for rezzing and the only profession that can be a offtank no matter what setup) and mid combat reliable utility (so something that you can always use for a good effect, but not something situational like a reflect for a overpowered effect).
People just dont value it over 40k popping up as a number for a 2 second channel.
Look at nemesis’s last video for a quite nice rant on that.

Andele.1306:

nekretaal.6485:

Nexromancers have bottom tier DPS (things like terror not doing any damage to bosses doesn’t help), and little utility other than maybe chills and cripples for certain bosses.

Of course, the last time I was on one of these bosses, the leader dropped a tray of food that let everybody chill on a crit, so I was effectively bringing nothing special to the fight.

Necros can and do sustain higher dps than full glass guardians, anything that isnt a arcane build ele and non spirit/shortbow rangers.
From all the professions necromancers have the highest team hp utpime sustain (perma aoe chill, almost perma weakeness/permanent if cpc slotted in, high blind uptime, 4 strong and easy hard ccs/dont work on bosses but 3 are aoe so good mob blocks for rezzing and the only profession that can be a offtank no matter what setup) and mid combat reliable utility (so something that you can always use for a good effect, but not something situational like a reflect for a overpowered effect).
People just dont value it over 40k popping up as a number for a 2 second channel.
Look at nemesis’s last video for a quite nice rant on that.

There has yet to be a single high-quality public demonstration for comparative Necromancer DPS or even team utility in dungeons. That’s what people are waiting on: one good video to prove that a necromancer can speed up a run.

Edit: I’d like to make clear that I think there’s a very real possibility that Necromancers can do the damage desired, and that the community at large has just judged too quickly. Of course, the best tactic may not be well-known yet either.
Rangers are a great example of this: Spotter, frost spirit, and actually using a melee weapon turned out to bring enough personal and team damage that they could be a valued member of a run, rather than being largely reviled by people who thought they knew better.

Softspoken.2410:

There has yet to be a single high-quality public demonstration for comparative Necromancer DPS or even team utility in dungeons. That’s what people are waiting on: one good video to prove that a necromancer can speed up a run.

Edit: I’d like to make clear that I think there’s a very real possibility that Necromancers can do the damage desired, and that the community at large has just judged too quickly. Of course, the best tactic may not be well-known yet either.
Rangers are a great example of this: Spotter, frost spirit, and actually using a melee weapon turned out to bring enough personal and team damage that they could be a valued member of a run, rather than being largely reviled by people who thought they knew better.

A zerker necro can do on par damage with other classes in a speedrun. But theres still no reason to take one. We dont provide the group with anything worth taking. Warriors have banners, ranger has frost spirit, guardian has utility and defense, ele has the best damage with LH, thief has huge dps and stealth and mesmer has amazing utility but bad dps. Engineer in theory is strong aswell, but noone in the dungeon community has bothered to try and find a use for them.

Also to add, a pure dps guard with no utility or defensive traits can actually do better dps than a warrior when buffed up with banners and stuff. Its just noone takes a guard for that, you take a dps guard with honor for the utility.

Softspoken.2410:

There has yet to be a single high-quality public demonstration for comparative Necromancer DPS or even team utility in dungeons. That’s what people are waiting on: one good video to prove that a necromancer can speed up a run.

Still dont get why people claim aoe is great on necro when cleave is better in 99% of all situations.

Epidemic while nice is 1sec cast ( target may die or cleanse before cast is done ) its condition dmg only which tend to be pretty horrible in dungeons.
And lets be real here time to setup conditions for epidemic is to long if power specs just tend to walk through things like it was nothing.

Could look at another problem with conditions in dungeons, quickness… quickness doesnt help condition dmg at all it only makes you ram into the cap faster and even the non condition specced in your group who do add bleeds now have their own high stack so you cant even keep your own 25 stack even if your the one with the best condition dmg.
Then we have stuff like burrows in AC that only power can hurt.
Boss fights that boost power dmg.

Our power aoe dmg is somewhat ok but suffers from the cd they have and were pretty much completely dependant on utlitly skills for aoe dmg since no weaponset offers good power aoe dmg or cleave and only other option is DS #4 which is sorta ok but its dps isnt that great being a somewhat long channel.

Andele.1306:

Softspoken.2410:

There has yet to be a single high-quality public demonstration for comparative Necromancer DPS or even team utility in dungeons. That’s what people are waiting on: one good video to prove that a necromancer can speed up a run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w8CrDa2oNA

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

Edit: I wish I could find that old thread that was the first 4 Necro 1 Mesmer speed run attempt, and how it basically got laughed out of the proverbial court. It’d give me better baselines to bring up for comparison.

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

50 second difference can be in: portal stone jump, skill of person taking down the totem, what food people use, etc
Only comparison one might make and flat out say, necros are worse in CoF1 is vs Rangers that use the pet aggro exploit and have luck in procs from stacked spirits (since it can be done in a bit less than 4 minutes that way if everything goes perfect).

Blaine Tog.8304:

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

Still: necromancers don’t out-damage, they don’t out-buff, and the control they do provide generally pales when compared to the usefulness of reflection / projectile block fields. So where are they needed?

Blaine Tog.8304:

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

They arent even close to be competetive with warrior dps… They were like 1-2min slower then 4 warriors.. We hit like 10k on the last ghastly claws hit in cof and warriors can hit like 20k in cof with hundred blades. We are out played by every class and there is no reason to have a necro in a dungeon…

Skyguy.3715:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

They arent even close to be competetive with warrior dps… They were like 1-2min slower then 4 warriors.. We hit like 10k on the last ghastly claws hit in cof and warriors can hit like 20k in cof with hundred blades. We are out played by every class and there is no reason to have a necro in a dungeon…

20k is very low for 100b. But yeah a 4 necro run isnt a decent method of proof. It needs to be 1 necro in an optimised group.

Im gonna start recording dungeon runs but I dont know whats best to record with? Once i have that sorted and can record in decent quality I may start running with a necro.

Softspoken.2410:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

Still: necromancers don’t out-damage, they don’t out-buff, and the control they do provide generally pales when compared to the usefulness of reflection / projectile block fields. So where are they needed?

You don’t need any given profession for any given dungeon. All dungeon paths can be completed with any mix of professions. There’s always going to be a particular formulation that completes a given path with the most speed but that doesn’t mean you can’t run some other formulation, especially now that Anet nerfed repetitive runs.

If you want an example of a path that I think Necros may have a speed edge on, HotW p1 is a good candidate. Say, 3 power Necros, a Condi Necro, and a Mesmer, specifically because they can use Axe and Scepter to keep nearly 100% damage uptime on the last boss even during his projectile reflect move, use piercing Life Blasts to take down pillars quickly without having to maneuver the boss, and the Condi Necro’s damage ignores the boss’s partial Protection uptime.

That’s just a thought, though. My point is, just because Warriors can clear CoF p1 sliiightly faster than Necros doesn’t make us unnecessary. We have plenty of cool tricks to pull in other parts of the game, even other dungeons.

Skyguy.3715:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

They arent even close to be competetive with warrior dps… They were like 1-2min slower then 4 warriors.. We hit like 10k on the last ghastly claws hit in cof and warriors can hit like 20k in cof with hundred blades. We are out played by every class and there is no reason to have a necro in a dungeon…

It wasnt even a full minute faster and the necro run wasnt even close to as smooth as the warrior (as expected since they probably didnt run it 40000 times before that).

You kidding me … Hybrid Power/Condition build is snexy… Bleeds, Cripples, Burning, blinding Good amount of DPS… Win .

HardRider.2980:

You kidding me … Hybrid Power/Condition build is snexy… Bleeds, Cripples, Burning, blinding Good amount of DPS… Win .

lol It doesnt work as well as full condition or full dps. Go condition or power… hybrid is good for leveling and thats it

Skyguy.3715:

HardRider.2980:

You kidding me … Hybrid Power/Condition build is snexy… Bleeds, Cripples, Burning, blinding Good amount of DPS… Win .

lol It doesnt work as well as full condition or full dps. Go condition or power… hybrid is good for leveling and thats it

You know hybrid has the highest team dps if your setup doesnt overstack bleeds, right?

I won’t think it’s for leveling. I believe it compensate the condition build up in dungeon. But at the same time it’s still short of power build’s burst. I think it’s a creation of trying to solve necro’s problem (damage wise) but never the intent of developers. In fact I don’t think any of our weapons is built for hybrid.

Is there any posibility that Necro isn’t the best in anything, but is a good second place overall?

I mean, it may not do as much dps as a warrior, but does more than other classes? And may not have as much defense as a guardian, but have more than other classes? Something like this… (1: best, 3: worse, and please remember that this table is only provided as a quick example: the numbers probably are wrong)

Warrior: DPS: 1; Defense: 2; Conditions: 3; Buffs: 3 = Overall: 2.25
Guardian: DPS: 3; Defense: 1; Conditions: 3; Buffs: 2 = Overall: 2.25
Mesmer: DPS: 3; Defense: 3; Conditions: 2; Buffs: 1 = Overall: 2.25
Necro: DPS: 2; Defense: 2; Conditions: 2; Buffs: 3 = Overall: 2.25

Maybe we are wishing/fighting for the necro to be the best at something, when it really is a good second place (something like the Bard class in D&D), something that doesn’t shines in anything, but can help in most places, unlike some others more especialized classes… What do you think?

But no one like second place…….
When people ask for a role, they want the best doing so. Not someone who can do a little of this, a little of that.

Were not even second place though. Were last place for everything except dps. The only class worse than us for dps is a mesmer.

No, necro was never needed nor loved.

I think Necro needs Well of Blood boosted for allies and shorter CD on Signet of Undeath. In addition, I would like to see more benefits to allies at Death Magic and Blood Magic 30 so conservative builds have something more substantial to offer a group than going down less often.

We dont need more defensive group buffs. That wouldnt make necro picked for dungeons. The only way to make a necro popular is to allow them to contribute to group dps in a unique way or to provide monster dps (better than most other classes) when buffed up.