Guild Wars 2

Was there a signifigantly buff recently that have made this class viable in dungeons? I ask because I’m a returning player who wants to level up a new main. Ever since launch, this class has been trash in dungeons and pve in general, and I’ve seen anet make almost no attempt to fix it.

Come back in 7-8 months for a chance to see some improvements. But you will have to pay for the expansion.

Even with the expansion its not guaranteed we are gonna becom more useful. Greatsword may become our highest dps & cleave weapon. Or we will get new boss mechanics to actually allow things like boon ripping to be useful.

At the moment our DPS is not anything superb, its average like warrior. We dont have better team support then a guardian or better AoE than ele. I still play it every now and then cause i enjoy the theme but its not my “main” in fractals or hard dungeons.

Necro is good in 5th group slot if nobody else wants to join

Useless? No. Ideal? No.

There’s a lot of ground to cover between useless and ideal, and Necro occupies an unfortunate spot of not only being incapable of doing anything better than anyone for what’s desired most in PvE, but not even as well in most cases.

They just don’t have the toolbox to be as good in PvE as any other profession. Still not useless though.

I play necro valkyrie/berserker in pve.
I can help my team taking away allies conditions , with the signet that ress up 3 allies, and if I use the new healing skill all my allies can heal by hitting the marked enemy.
It’s not a support class and it’s not good at all to blast fields. But you survive longer than all the other zerk builds and can deal a large amount of damage with DS auto attack.

No one think that the necro is a very good dps class. Everyone think at the necro like at the condition class. But in dps mode you can deal more damage than a common warrior with your DS.

Necro is very viable in PvE if your skilled and run full Zerk…

Axe/focus for maximum dmg without sacrificing survivability (D/W or D/D requires you to get in to close). At 600 range with the right set up and some might Axe 2 can hit for well over 10k and its a ton more reliable then 1000 paper cuts from the war given you can do it from 600 range and keep moving (unfortunately its only single target, no issue against bosses though). not to mention focus #4 will bounce 5 times.. if it hits the boss x3 that’s 2k+ dmg x 3 plus wells you can burst over 40k dmg in 5 seconds. Add sigil of air/fire you are doing a ton of dmg and its all at 600 range.

also DS auto will hit for 6k+ every shot if traited for 100% crit chance. DS aoe is good for almost 10k dmg x 5 badies Plus the aoe imob and burst dmg.

Necro CC is “ok” given a fear in DS every 20s and staff #5 (helps to burn off that defiance).

and then there is lich… with DS low you can pop the lich and your guaranteed again 6k+ hits with every #1 attack.

next to warrior/thief Skilled necro players with the right builds can deal some of the highest dmg in this game without having to get right into the fight. the only real downside is that necros have no support for other players so they don’t seem to make the cut for joining groups. or most necros run condi/mm builds which have no real place in dungeons or any group play (given the current meta). Condi is however useful in world events such as triple trouble and some mordrem bosses which can be dmged greatly by condies.

if you don’t believe in the powermancer msg me in game and I will go toe-toe battling the same type of mob 10g to the person who downs them faster! lol

NOTE: if I fear your add out of your 1000 paper cuts its totally a legal move!

The problem isn’t that the necro can’t be a good class in pve, it’s that condition damage is bad in pve. And the problem of condition damage in pve is that all the conditions work and stack at the same time on the same mob for all players. If you will be able to deal Your condition damage like the enemy isn’t affected by other players condition damages, your damage will be good. But to do that ANet need to do a large improvement of it’s servers and that’s impossibl because it’s very expensive.

Then if you play pve play direct damage. And in direct damage the necro can do greath things.

I had someone in a Fractal 50 try to convince me that condi Necro is good in Fractals level 50 because its DPS is better than power Necro DPS.

Necro is far from useless, we have a bad reputation because of people who play it under it<s capacity, exactly like a ranger…

I have proven what I just said for the multiple times that I saved my whole party during fractals and dungeons. If you play your class right there is no under powered profession, only bad players. Just go zerk with the right skills for the right moment and you will do fine on any class.

Even if you play the Necromancer perfectly, it still underperforms compared to every other class when played equally perfectly. That’s the problem, and why people sigh at seeing Necros in PvE.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Even if you play the Necromancer perfectly, it still underperforms compared to every other class when played equally perfectly. That’s the problem, and why people sigh at seeing Necros in PvE.

Not true, I have nearly every class at level 80 and geared and I can tell you that played well it is not the lowest damage or utility class in the game, I only think people always assume “oh it’s a necro, he must be running conditions in PVE”…

Daxxter.8920:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Even if you play the Necromancer perfectly, it still underperforms compared to every other class when played equally perfectly. That’s the problem, and why people sigh at seeing Necros in PvE.

Not true, I have nearly every class at level 80 and geared and I can tell you that played well it is not the lowest damage or utility class in the game, I only think people always assume “oh it’s a necro, he must be running conditions in PVE”…

And I also have all classes at 80 and play them all in organised groups. I know the ins and outs of each class. And necro is definitely the lowest on the list for PvE. In fact I know necro better than most other classes but the less than perfect knowledge i have on other classes still trumps necro’s capabilities by a long margin.

To OP, necro is still in same situation as it was before. They’re selfish and bring nothing to group that other classes can’t do better. As Ara said, keep an eye on the specialization and hope for the best.

Daxxter.8920:

Not true, I have nearly every class at level 80 and geared and I can tell you that played well it is not the lowest damage or utility class in the game, I only think people always assume “oh it’s a necro, he must be running conditions in PVE”…

I have every class in-game currently min/maxed for dungeons with full ascended gear, and over 6000 hours on my account many hundreds of which are spent in dungeons. I agree with Spoj, having done everything so much, I can safely say that Necromancer is the least impressive of the lot. That said, even disregarding our anecdotal evidence, mathematical evidence has been given on numerous occasions in this vein. The results all of which point to the Necromancer being the weakest link even with the most PvE-optimal build possible.

I wish it weren’t true too, since my Necromancer is one of my two favorite classes, but it is. I’m not bashing Necromancers, I’m just telling it like it is.

When I play my Necromancer.

I find myself in a state of almost god like power.

and utter uselessness

Ropechef.6192:

When I play my Necromancer.

I find myself in a state of almost god like power.

and utter uselessness

brilliant! +1

Most other professions got a reduction in damage with the 17% Might nerf so, while Necromancer still has no group utility, it should be less sucky compared to might-stacking dungeon groups.

Think of it as a very tiny miracle.

I have every class that has ever been created in every game, with 100,000 hours played and all characters maxed for PvE with the best epic/legendary/ascended gear at max levels, and unfortunately I can also tell you that Necros are at the bottom by a large margin.

So take my word for it.

If you aren’t doing speed runs though, the class is fine. People just like to be exclusionary in MMOs because it creates a situation where they’re with the “in crowd” when they play the “right” spec/class/etc.

If you ARE doing speed runs and want to be best-in-world, you probably want a different class.

Cogbyrn.7283:

If you aren’t doing speed runs though, the class is fine.

Except the simpliest and most boring skill rotation ever… pop big cooldowns and spam 111111111 until cooldowns again (powernecro).

Cogbyrn.7283:

I have every class that has ever been created in every game, with 100,000 hours played and all characters maxed for PvE with the best epic/legendary/ascended gear at max levels, and unfortunately I can also tell you that Necros are at the bottom by a large margin.

So take my word for it.

If you aren’t doing speed runs though, the class is fine. People just like to be exclusionary in MMOs because it creates a situation where they’re with the “in crowd” when they play the “right” spec/class/etc.

If you ARE doing speed runs and want to be best-in-world, you probably want a different class.

100,000? really………………………………………………=.=’
because the game has only been out 2 years and approx 6months
at that time frame..you’d have to be playing an extra 80 hours a day, than a day has………………………………………………

Taygus.4571:

100,000? really………………………………………………=.=’
because the game has only been out 2 years and approx 6months
at that time frame..you’d have to be playing an extra 80 hours a day, than a day has………………………………………………

Figure of speech, bro.

Any class is fine in PvE because PvE is easy, but that won’t hold up if ANet actually keeps to their promise for actually challenging content. In that case, we’ll have to hope our specialization is up to scratch.

This should summarize everyone’s opinion…

No class in GW2 is useless, but the Necromancer is the worst PvE class in the game.

That good enough to make everyone happy?

Rising Dusk.2408:

Any class is fine in PvE because PvE is easy, but that won’t hold up if ANet actually keeps to their promise for actually challenging content. In that case, we’ll have to hope our specialization is up to scratch.

Actually, against Mordrem, Necros are strong contenders for top 3 strongest class. If they used more boons, Necros would be cemented there.

The issue being that no dungeon (which is where Necros are bad) has them. The more like players that enemies behave, the better Necros get in PvE. Necro kits are great against players, not against giant health bags.

Thats so untrue lol. Current mordrem arent really any different to your standard old mobs. The only difference is they have a bit more variety in attacks. Which makes them more of an awareness check. But with proper awareness the class order of effectiveness doesnt change. The only advantage necro has is the high base durability so you can pay less attention and still survive. That doesnt mean necros are top contenders for dealing with mordrem. It just means they are a good pick for bad players who cant dodge or adapt.

That said mordrem and hard hitting mobs such as the ones in high level fractals increase the requirement of proper usage of CC and debuff conditions to survive. This is something necro can do. So we arent terrible for these types of enemies. However people seem to think other classes dont have an abundance of CC and debuff conditions. Which is completely false. Often times they have better and more accessible debuffs and CC.

More and more difficulty will increase the need for CC and debuffs. So that combined with hopefully more control and utility on the necro specialisation will allow necros to find a good spot in fractals and the new content.

Between the necessity for control abilities, condition handling, and poison (multiple mordrem heal), Necros conveniently bring all of it in one package. Engineers do as well, but that’s about it.

The poison is totally unneeded. The life leechers can be pulled out of the aoe and the little things can be interrupted just by being hit. Ive been using dagger necro for mordrem and havent used any poison.

All classes have plenty of effective methods of dealing with them. They all have the complete package (ignoring poison) if they take the right weapons and utilities. Like i said the only advantage is the base durability. And i suppose you could make the arguement that necro gets some free extra control from deathshroud skills. Theres no distinct advantage for the necro in terms of efficiency though. Only in safety. And thats because with how many enemies there are, active blocks are sometimes less reliable than passive defence.

Ive tried ele and warrior in silverwastes. Both were more effective at killing and i didnt have to adapt much at all (didnt even use cc or debuff conditions). The necro was simply easier but slower. Which is exactly what i expected due to the classes relative differences in dungeons and fractals.

The durability angle is such a joke. You honestly think Death Shroud provides more durability than healing signet? Troll Ungent? Perma Regen? Come on guys… face facts.

Necro sustain is bottom tier and group utility is non-existent. Stop being delusional… lol.

Never said anything about sustain. I was talking about base durability. Warrior has pretty much the same advantage. Its a case of if you cant dodge or avoid effectively with active defence then your high base health pool is going to save you even in glass gear.

Also its true classes like guardian, ranger, engi and mesmer should all be pretty easy to survive with aswell. But you really can faceroll it on necro and warrior. Because you simply dont need to avoid anything other than overlapped and stacked teragriff rushes. Its almost like playing nomads in fractals only you have more damage.

That being said though. I must say the introduction of the Sinister gear has made the Necro a lot less tedious to play. Previously, you’d be looking at pure power or pure condition. Sinister at least gives you the option of a properly hybrid build that gives you the benefit of high condition damage while still being able to get stuck in with a dagger or what not. Doesn’t change the other facts, but at least it’s a helluva lot more fun to play.

Unfortunately, Necromancers don’t have a hybrid weapon with potent enough DPS to take advantage of Sinister. I mean, the Power helps more than Toughness or Vitality would in PvE, but Warriors and Engineers still outclass the Necromancer as Sinister Condition builds. All a Necromancer really has to set it apart if Epidemic, which is highly situational.

necro’s are not useless at all, they are underestimated.
that’s not really the fault of the profession, it’s because of players who simply don’t know how to play a necro.
sadly that’s pretty much about 90% of all necro players, i know how to play a necro properly but again, because of the bad rep around necro’s it’s difficult to convince players otherwise.

for the record, necro’s DO have team supports, they DO have team healing and they DO have both good CC and DPS.
again, it’s not the necro, it’s the player who play’s it.

Nope necros are only useless in speedruns. In all other areas of PVE necromancers are useful.

I really hate being that guy, but come on people—We all love our class, but stop pretending the Necromancer is something it’s not.

sorudo.9054:

for the record, necro’s DO have team supports, they DO have team healing and they DO have both good CC and DPS.
again, it’s not the necro, it’s the player who play’s it.

The best Necro manages 9k personal DPS, which ties with the Guardian. The Guardian build that gives it 9k DPS offers reflects, fire fields, vulnerability stacks, blast finishers, blinds, protection, stability, condition clears, and more all in the same package. The Necro build which hits 9k DPS offers fewer stacks of Vulnerability, personal condi clear, and nothing else to the team at all. At best, the Necro can switch in Bone Minions for one blast finisher and then switch it out, but even then it can put him in combat and become a DPS loss. Even a Mesmer, which has roughly 9.5k DPS but with a ramp-up time offers utilities such as Portal, Feedback, Stealth, and Time Warp, all of which are invaluable for certain encounters.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Nope necros are only useless in speedruns. In all other areas of PVE necromancers are acceptable.

Fixed that for you.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I really hate being that guy, but come on people—We all love our class, but stop pretending the Necromancer is something it’s not.

sorudo.9054:

for the record, necro’s DO have team supports, they DO have team healing and they DO have both good CC and DPS.
again, it’s not the necro, it’s the player who play’s it.

The best Necro manages 9k personal DPS, which ties with the Guardian. The Guardian build that gives it 9k DPS offers reflects, fire fields, vulnerability stacks, blast finishers, blinds, protection, stability, condition clears, and more all in the same package. The Necro build which hits 9k DPS offers fewer stacks of Vulnerability, personal condi clear, and nothing else to the team at all. At best, the Necro can switch in Bone Minions for one blast finisher and then switch it out, but even then it can put him in combat and become a DPS loss. Even a Mesmer, which has roughly the same 9k DPS but with a ramp-up time offers utilities such as Portal, Feedback, Stealth, and Time Warp, all of which are invaluable for certain encounters.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Nope necros are only useless in speedruns. In all other areas of PVE necromancers are acceptable.

Fixed that for you.

Dont go fixing what isn’t broken( and by that I mean my quote not the class). I know well what I meant when I said it. Necros are useful by bringing vulnerability and wells to regular dungeon runs and, the broken minion master offers plenty of meatshields in the open world. Condi necros have nice niche spot at Copper in SW and pretty much all other husks that take minimal damage from direct attacks. Even in fractals they have some use by bringing chill and weakness.

Wells are actually the opposite of helpful. They are a dark field which hurts in-battle might stacking by blasting blinds, they are just necessary in order to achieve even passable DPS numbers. Well of Corruption has the potential to be really awesome, but there are no encounters where a Necromancer’s boon corruption is superior to a Mesmer’s autoattacking with Sword. This is a problem with encounters, not the Necromancer (although Necromancer cooldown times do hurt it), but it hurts Necromancer value regardless.

Condition Necromancers do not have a niche at Copper in SW because with 30 people your bleeds will all be overwritten. If we had more access to torment or burn then maybe, but because we rely on bleeds for our DPS we’re gutted by the random traits everyone has that apply bleeds.

Hell, condition Necromancers aren’t even the best for Triple Trouble Wurm, where Engineers and Warriors reign supreme because they can both function as members of the condi team and deal solid DPS during burn phases.

Lastly, our weakness uptime used to be better before Weakening Shroud was nerfed. Back then, you really could make claim that Necromancer’s were good in Fractals with great weakness uptime, but ever since that was nerfed our weakness uptime is terrible. Weakness is also not as good as, say, protection because trash mobs die too fast with coordinated groups, and weakness duration is cut versus champions and legendaries.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I really hate being that guy, but come on people—We all love our class, but stop pretending the Necromancer is something it’s not.

sorudo.9054:

for the record, necro’s DO have team supports, they DO have team healing and they DO have both good CC and DPS.
again, it’s not the necro, it’s the player who play’s it.

The best Necro manages 9k personal DPS, which ties with the Guardian. The Guardian build that gives it 9k DPS offers reflects, fire fields, vulnerability stacks, blast finishers, blinds, protection, stability, condition clears, and more all in the same package. The Necro build which hits 9k DPS offers fewer stacks of Vulnerability, personal condi clear, and nothing else to the team at all. At best, the Necro can switch in Bone Minions for one blast finisher and then switch it out, but even then it can put him in combat and become a DPS loss. Even a Mesmer, which has roughly 9.5k DPS but with a ramp-up time offers utilities such as Portal, Feedback, Stealth, and Time Warp, all of which are invaluable for certain encounters.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Nope necros are only useless in speedruns. In all other areas of PVE necromancers are acceptable.

Fixed that for you.

cute, i had to save a whole group with my necro where your precious guardian failed to protect, heck, i even made sure the dungeon was even remotely successful because the guardian died far often then anything i did, again, with my necro.
you have fancy data, i have hard facts.
and again, it’s not the necro, it’s the player who play’s as a necro.

You’re mistaking personal skill for being representative of a class’s usefulness. A great Necromancer player running meta is of course more useful than a terrible Guardian sitting in Staff autoattacking, but we must assume equal skill for purposes of considering whether a class is “good” or “bad”, otherwise there is no basis for discussion at all.

Rising Dusk is completely correct. Keep living in fantasy land everyone else.

I wish some anet staff would read this post and realize how completely outclassed Necro is at every aspect of PvE gameplay. They can’t REALLY want a class that has no use in their game… can they?

tboneking.2531:

I wish some anet staff would read this post and realize how completely outclassed Necro is at every aspect of PvE gameplay. They can’t REALLY want a class that has no use in their game… can they?

So much this. Top level pvp? Necro gets focused ends up being rallybot that brings no support. WvW Backlines? Low sustain because of well and lich cooldown, no support thus inferior to staff ele who has a TON more to offer. High level PvE? Well you guys explained that in a detailed manner.

sorudo.9054:

you have fancy data, i have hard facts.

I think you’re confusing a few things…

“Fancy Data” = Facts
Personal Experience =/= Facts

Ara.4569:

Come back in 7-8 months for a chance to see some improvements. But you will have to pay for the expansion.

Yeah and we got a GS. GREATSWORD!
Next day after DLC: hey, Anet, what the hell with our GS?! We are expected warrior-like GS, not mesmer-like!

After returning to my necro from a long break from the game, I too have to agree with Sorudo.
It’s utterly depressing that Arenanet still hasn’t been able to give Necro a place in efficient dungeon running.

lol wow. I’m new to the game (about 2 weeks, level 22) and necro is my first choice (warlock kinda guy) and I really wish I didn’t look at this thread. But eh I’ll see what I can do with this “useless” class cause it’s the one I wanna play so nertz to you naysayers! : D

Things might improve with the new specialisation in HoT. So its not like theres no hope for you new guys.

Baconbit.6970:

lol wow. I’m new to the game (about 2 weeks, level 22) and necro is my first choice (warlock kinda guy) and I really wish I didn’t look at this thread. But eh I’ll see what I can do with this “useless” class cause it’s the one I wanna play so nertz to you naysayers! : D

Hi. Not to shatter your dreams, but there are (suprisingly considering the easiness of rerolling) a few people who have been trying to make necro work since the beta tests for years in both pve and pvp and it mostly didn’t work out.

As spojerinos mentioned, there is some hope, especially since the guy who was the original reason for necro restrictions left the company. It fills me with good feelings.

Baconbit.6970:

lol wow. I’m new to the game (about 2 weeks, level 22) and necro is my first choice (warlock kinda guy) and I really wish I didn’t look at this thread. But eh I’ll see what I can do with this “useless” class cause it’s the one I wanna play so nertz to you naysayers! : D

Not to inflate your dreams, but right around the time Warrior’s Zerker Stance was buffed to be straight-up condi immunity for 8 or whatever seconds, and people started discovering how awesome Greatsword+Hammer was in WvW (it was my jam for a long time, when everyone hated Hammer, even Longbow+Hammer while someone was actively putting out videos demonstrating how Longbow+Hammer could work), that I dropped Warrior for Necromancer. I was missing a casting element and I’ve been a dark/shadow magic player for quite a while (Necromancer main in GW1, Necromancer in Diablo II, switched to Witch Doctor in Diablo 3 after playing Barbarian for a while).

The first time I picked it up, I leveled it to 80, started roaming WvW, and was repeatedly wrecked. The cast times were throwing me off immensely, and the survivability being baked into a mechanic I was unfamiliar with was not going very well. I actually dropped it for a while and went back to Warrior because it wasn’t fun.

Then I went back, gave it a chance, and I haven’t had any urge to go back to Warrior since. I’ve played Warrior a few times, and it just doesn’t have the toys. I can’t look at someone full of boons knowing I can’t do anything about it without getting frustrated anymore, so Necro is my forever jam.

I don’t do PvE speedruns. I don’t compete in tPvP at a high level. I spent hundreds of hours roaming solo in WvW, killing many classes/builds with a Power spec while everyone was saying it was terrible. I had my own utility choices down pat for basically every class I could see in WvW, and would often swap them around based on what I saw on the horizon.

Class is fun, man. I’ve done basically all of the dungeons and run several fractals, mostly with my girlfriend who ran a support Guardian. We never broke land speed records, but we had a lot of fun. I hop into casual hotjoins every once in a while and tool around in sPvP. Sometimes the games are ultra bad, sometimes the games are good, overall I just like to get into a game and jam when the roaming/WvW is scarce.

Class owns. In WvW, you’re an asset to zergs. You can blow up camps with Power and Condi both, by yourself, if you want to solo roam. You can take on almost all of the classes/builds out there, though some of the ultra-meta 1v1 builds are going to give you trouble (but what fun would it be without some challenge?). You can complete all of the PvE content if you can find a group that doesn’t have some prejudice against Necros because they heard someone somewhere say they were bad DPS. You can probably hold your own with several different styles of builds up through mid-tier tPvP, or you can do whatever you want in hotjoins with whatever build and just have fun playing the class.

The folks here often find the flaws with fine-toothed combs and blow them up for the world to see. Some make sweeping generalizations about usefulness/uselessness. When you’re analyzing class design, it’s sometimes easy to get lost in your garden of issues and forget that the rest of the class can still be used to at least have fun in a large variety of ways.

So get in there and enjoy your class. Play Necro because you want to play Necro, and being slightly suboptimal at ultra-high tiers of PvE/PvP will not bother you in the slightest.

Join a guild that just wants people who know how the handle the encounters (and are willing to teach it to newcomers ofc) in the dungeons and don’t care about your build (might even make it more challenging and fun at some points).

My Necromancer is condi-specced and I love doing Dungeons with her. It’s ofc not the most optimal choice, but it’s a viable choice as in I know what I’m doing.

What’s the point in having a full zerk profession if you don’t know the boss-fights or don’t know when to dodge this and that. If you get downed a lot, well.. there goes your DPS as well

In my guild, we don’t do speedruns, but we do dungeons and fractals a lot. We just want to have fun and complete the run, doesn’t matter how fast it goes, as long as we make it till the end with everybody ^^