Guild Wars 2

http://www.tentonhammer.com/feature/guild-wars-2-are-necromancers-really-so-bad

Good. Maybe some bad publicity on the eve of an expansion will force their hand.

I gotta wonder, whats with all of the Ten ton hammer publicity recently? Is it centered around the upcoming HoT expansion entirely or have I just not noticed their interest in GW2 before? o.o

ronpierce.2760:

I gotta wonder, whats with all of the Ten ton hammer publicity recently? Is it centered around the upcoming HoT expansion entirely or have I just not noticed their interest in GW2 before? o.o

Seems like. They seem to get tons of info from ANet.
Could be that there’s not really much happening on MMORPG market recently.

Rym.1469:

ronpierce.2760:

I gotta wonder, whats with all of the Ten ton hammer publicity recently? Is it centered around the upcoming HoT expansion entirely or have I just not noticed their interest in GW2 before? o.o

Seems like. They seem to get tons of info from ANet.
Could be that there’s not really much happening on MMORPG market recently.

They merged GW2Hub into Ten Ton Hammer

Good read.

Necromancer is fun to play because it is so very handicapped. It’s like having a suicide mode.

Funny is that he didn’t mention anything from the lack of healing in death shroud which is another aspect that holds us back enormously.

Tim.6450:

Funny is that he didn’t mention anything from the lack of healing in death shroud which is another aspect that holds us back enormously.

Technically: “By having no access to any other skills and with a list of restrictions as long as your arm.” with a link.

That’s a biggie for me because it’s just so frustrating as to how many restrictions there are. Death Shroud has been nerfed over and over again.

Anchoku.8142:

Good read.

Necromancer is fun to play because it is so very handicapped. It’s like having a suicide mode.

“We’re happy to announce our new challenging PvE content for upcoming Heart of Thorns release:

The Struggle!
It’s our new take on Guild Wars Hard Mode content, inherited from the first game. In Struggle Mode, you all play as Necromancers and don’t have access to Life Blast or MH Dagger. Good luck. It’s real"

Tim.6450:

Funny is that he didn’t mention anything from the lack of healing in death shroud which is another aspect that holds us back enormously.

I mentioned a few things in the comments, which he acknowledged. Frankly, I think there are just too many issues that make it hard to condense it all.

Applaud…. nice article didn’t hit everything but hope someone from Anet reads it.

Kantz.6420:

Applaud…. nice article didn’t hit everything but hope someone from Anet reads it.

Hitting everything would result in the Bible ;D

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Kantz.6420:

Applaud…. nice article didn’t hit everything but hope someone from Anet reads it.

Hitting everything would result in the Bible ;D

The comments will take care of the rest. :P hehe.

ronpierce.2760:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Kantz.6420:

Applaud…. nice article didn’t hit everything but hope someone from Anet reads it.

Hitting everything would result in the Bible ;D

The comments will take care of the rest. :P hehe.

Interesting seeing the Reddit reaction: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3528jq/are_necromancers_really_so_bad/

Seems they think necromancers are amazing :P

Lewis Burnell.2493:

ronpierce.2760:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Kantz.6420:

Applaud…. nice article didn’t hit everything but hope someone from Anet reads it.

Hitting everything would result in the Bible ;D

The comments will take care of the rest. :P hehe.

Interesting seeing the Reddit reaction: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3528jq/are_necromancers_really_so_bad/

Seems they think necromancers are amazing :P

I see two things. WvW zerg rushers, which i could see… Not exactly a role that I feel should definite a class… A zerg is a zerg. I also feel like life steal is held back because of, exactly that, its ability to steal from many targets at once in WvW zergs where you can just toss a mark anywhere or well and hit the cap of people on every tick. Thats not really an issue I know how to fix, but WvW is terribly unbalanced in EVERY way for many reasons and certainly shouldn’t be a reason to hold a class down from EVERY other section.

And the other thing I see are people who just don’t have a clue. I mean, it’s reddit. You’ll have those. :P

Lewis Burnell.2493:

ronpierce.2760:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Kantz.6420:

Applaud…. nice article didn’t hit everything but hope someone from Anet reads it.

Hitting everything would result in the Bible ;D

The comments will take care of the rest. :P hehe.

Interesting seeing the Reddit reaction: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3528jq/are_necromancers_really_so_bad/

Seems they think necromancers are amazing :P

Well. They downvoted my explanation the second I posted it.

Second health bar is second health bar, I guess I have to educate myself and we as a whole have to get good :P

And the other thing I see are people who just don’t have a clue. I mean, it’s reddit. You’ll have those. :P

Oh, don’t worry. If he added some quaggan art, a picture of cookie or story about how his grandmother loves Guild Wars 2, this would get more upvotes

Wow! I am speechless, that article is spot on. Don`t worry guys, Anet will ignore this as usual, instead of fixing the necromancer they will keep making golden pigs and other garbage for the gem store.

Life Siphon. It’s rubbish.

I like that guy, he gets it.

Yeah from reading it, ALL I see are people screaming “Necro are amazing at zergs”. Thats literally all I’ve seen. And then "you can’t say they’re broken they’re part of the “meta” in WvW"…

Is freaking Zergs REALLY what has been holding Necro back this whole kitten time? >_>:

ronpierce.2760:

Yeah from reading it, ALL I see are people screaming “Necro are amazing at zergs”. Thats literally all I’ve seen. And then "you can’t say they’re broken they’re part of the “meta” in WvW"…

Is freaking Zergs REALLY what has been holding Necro back this whole kitten time? >_>:

Maybe they have such narrow sight because…

The only thing they can do with their Necromancers is playing zerg WvW?

Rym.1469:

ronpierce.2760:

Yeah from reading it, ALL I see are people screaming “Necro are amazing at zergs”. Thats literally all I’ve seen. And then "you can’t say they’re broken they’re part of the “meta” in WvW"…

Is freaking Zergs REALLY what has been holding Necro back this whole kitten time? >_>:

Maybe they have such narrow sight because…

The only thing they can do with their Necromancers is playing zerg WvW?

Rofl.
“Okay, time to test out Necromancer and see what all the fuss is about…
Man… This blows…
Wait! I heard they can WvW!
Wowzercakes, I’m like one of the best players ever in this mess of players zerging around!
Confirmed, Necromancer is strongest class in game.
Analysis complete, send.”

Rym.1469:

The Struggle!
It’s our new take on Guild Wars Hard Mode content, inherited from the first game. In Struggle Mode, you all play as Necromancers and don’t have access to Life Blast or MH Dagger. Good luck. It’s real"

The struggle is real! :o

ronpierce.2760:

Yeah from reading it, ALL I see are people screaming “Necro are amazing at zergs”. Thats literally all I’ve seen. And then "you can’t say they’re broken they’re part of the “meta” in WvW"…

Is freaking Zergs REALLY what has been holding Necro back this whole kitten time? >_>:

Those people just lose all credibility when they say stuff like this, and I hope no one takes them seriously.
Of course a class with a high health pool and semi decent aoe damage is doing great in WvW zergs. But that is not because necros are good, it’s because they are kept alive by their zerg with perma-every-boon, perma-cleansing in organized groups and because a big crowd of players are inevitably going to peel rather well for them.

I play a zerg wvw necro Its essential but it really boils down to the fact we have well of suffering and corruption. If we didnt have that niche we’d be out.

Kilger.5490:

I play a zerg wvw necro Its essential but it really boils down to the fact we have well of suffering and corruption. If we didnt have that niche we’d be out.

Won’t be long, then. Chronomancer is due soon

It’s a really nice article btw.
The only things I disagree with are that according to the author some DS skills are unusable by certain builds. That’s not true, Tainted Shackles is a really good skill for any kind of build, and even Life Blast and Transfer have some value for conditions builds.
Also, instead of being able to use regular utility skills in Death Shroud, I’d rather get new DS skills that actually provide more utility and scaling defense than the regular skills we already have.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Kilger.5490:

I play a zerg wvw necro Its essential but it really boils down to the fact we have well of suffering and corruption. If we didnt have that niche we’d be out.

Won’t be long, then. Chronomancer is due soon

Well of Gravity and AOE evade frames for your homies? NP.

Why must I love necromancer so?! T_T Stupid game. -kicks a rock…-

flow.6043:

It’s a really nice article btw.
The only things I disagree with are that according to the author some DS skills are unusable by certain builds. That’s not true, Tainted Shackles is a really good skill for any kind of build, and even Life Blast and Transfer have some value for conditions builds.
Also, instead of being able to use regular utility skills in Death Shroud, I’d rather get new DS skills that actually provide more utility and scaling defense than the regular skills we already have.

Life Blast is poor for condition necromancers in the sense that they currently have to waste lots of points in the power line to get Dhuumfire and outside of Dhuumfire, the attack does no damage because they lack power. Power necromancers definitely get more use out of the skills, except for the fear because they don’t take the traits to maximise its duration or damage.

flow.6043:

It’s a really nice article btw.
The only things I disagree with are that according to the author some DS skills are unusable by certain builds. That’s not true, Tainted Shackles is a really good skill for any kind of build, and even Life Blast and Transfer have some value for conditions builds.
Also, instead of being able to use regular utility skills in Death Shroud, I’d rather get new DS skills that actually provide more utility and scaling defense than the regular skills we already have.

Agreed. I mentioned the tainted shackles thing in the comments. Didnt bother with other niche uses though as they are less obvious.

Either way it doesnt really matter. The purpose of the article gets its point across. And those slight inaccuracies actually do us a favour by shining a light on the kind of limited niche use for most DS skills and how they dont work so great on every build. And how they arent obvious to most players.

spoj.9672:

flow.6043:

It’s a really nice article btw.
The only things I disagree with are that according to the author some DS skills are unusable by certain builds. That’s not true, Tainted Shackles is a really good skill for any kind of build, and even Life Blast and Transfer have some value for conditions builds.
Also, instead of being able to use regular utility skills in Death Shroud, I’d rather get new DS skills that actually provide more utility and scaling defense than the regular skills we already have.

Agreed. I mentioned the tainted shackles thing in the comments. Didnt bother with other niche uses though as they are less obvious.

Either way it doesnt really matter. The purpose of the article gets its point across. And those slight inaccuracies actually do us a favour by shining a light on the kind of limited niche use for most DS skills and how they dont work so great on every build. And how they arent obvious to most players.

Yes, but is anybody listening?

Any feedback from Anet on the article Lewis?
We won’t see a red post here.

Excellent article, one that The Gates Assassin should link to the necro devs.

Tainted Shackles could be a decent skill if the immob on it lasted longer. Compare it to any other classes with access to immob, the duration is a joke that merely pauses someone for a fraction of a second when it hits. I use Tainted Shackles in WvW for the aoe exploding damage but it’s not reliable as people have to stay within 600 range of me for 4 seconds. On top of it all, this weak skill has way too long of a refresh timer for something that binds for a second and deals little damage.

Comparing all that to other classes and the kind of immob and aoe damage/conditions other classes could apply, you see how weak the skill really is.

The writer is also correct in that lifetransfer really should add more life force than it does. If it’s utilized for both a defensive and offensive aoe spike skill when we’re in nose deep, since the devs want us to get hit by design, then it should replenish more life force.

Swamurabi.7890:

spoj.9672:

flow.6043:

It’s a really nice article btw.
The only things I disagree with are that according to the author some DS skills are unusable by certain builds. That’s not true, Tainted Shackles is a really good skill for any kind of build, and even Life Blast and Transfer have some value for conditions builds.
Also, instead of being able to use regular utility skills in Death Shroud, I’d rather get new DS skills that actually provide more utility and scaling defense than the regular skills we already have.

Agreed. I mentioned the tainted shackles thing in the comments. Didnt bother with other niche uses though as they are less obvious.

Either way it doesnt really matter. The purpose of the article gets its point across. And those slight inaccuracies actually do us a favour by shining a light on the kind of limited niche use for most DS skills and how they dont work so great on every build. And how they arent obvious to most players.

Yes, but is anybody listening?

Any feedback from Anet on the article Lewis?
We won’t see a red post here.

Judging by amount of exlusive HoT news this site provides (like first site to post info about chronomancer) and gets from ArenaNet, yes, they’re reading it.

They’re also reading reddit and Necromancer forums from time to time.

But reading and understanding are two different things.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Life Blast is poor for condition necromancers in the sense that they currently have to waste lots of points in the power line to get Dhuumfire and outside of Dhuumfire, the attack does no damage because they lack power. Power necromancers definitely get more use out of the skills, except for the fear because they don’t take the traits to maximise its duration or damage.

Doom is a valuable interrupt, the fact that power builds don’t do the same damage with it as a condimancer’s Terror-traited fear isn’t that important. Also, power necros usually have 6 points in Spite and not every condi necro has Master or Terror. So the difference in condition duration isn’t necessarily that big.

As for Life Blast, Dhuumfire is not in “the power line” but in Spite: condi duration, Chill of Death, Spiteful Spirit… nothing that a condi necro wouldn’t want to have.
And the damage of LB with a carrion amulet is definitely not nothing. Worse than a power necro of course but still somewhere around 1-2k dmg depending on crits and your target’s armor. Also, Life Blast can be used to remove blindness or aegis before using more impactful skills, among other things…

I guess the moderator on reddit removed the thread. haha.
EDIT: The link here still works but it has disappeared from view /r/guildwars2

xgalaxy.7402:

I guess the moderator on reddit removed the thread. haha.
EDIT: The link here still works but it has disappeared from view /r/guildwars2

I guess A-Net really can’t handle the truth. So sad…

Yeah, seems like whole thread got deleted. A pity.

This article was spot on, and I appreciate our class getting attention outside of the realm of gw2 forums. It touched on all of our general problems, and explain my feelings on playing a necro post 80 in pvp and pve. In wvw, I roam, because it dropping wells and marks in a zerg is boring after hitting the silver levels of wvw, as in you have done it A LOT and it gets boring. That said, roaming gets tough becausse the power creep in wvw is redunculous and we are shut down so easily outside of the zerg.

The reddit thread wasnt deleted. It was just removed from the frontpage. Still an example of questionable censoring though.

flow.6043:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Life Blast is poor for condition necromancers in the sense that they currently have to waste lots of points in the power line to get Dhuumfire and outside of Dhuumfire, the attack does no damage because they lack power. Power necromancers definitely get more use out of the skills, except for the fear because they don’t take the traits to maximise its duration or damage.

Doom is a valuable interrupt, the fact that power builds don’t do the same damage with it as a condimancer’s Terror-traited fear isn’t that important. Also, power necros usually have 6 points in Spite and not every condi necro has Master or Terror. So the difference in condition duration isn’t necessarily that big.

As for Life Blast, Dhuumfire is not in “the power line” but in Spite: condi duration, Chill of Death, Spiteful Spirit… nothing that a condi necro wouldn’t want to have.
And the damage of LB with a carrion amulet is definitely not nothing. Worse than a power necro of course but still somewhere around 1-2k dmg depending on crits and your target’s armor. Also, Life Blast can be used to remove blindness or aegis before using more impactful skills, among other things…

I should have clarified, I meant that when you obtained Dhuumfire you spend points in Spite which provides +300 Power.

Doom is definitely a powerful interrupt, there’s no denying that. In all honesty though, I don’t know any condition necromancers that don’t take terror.

I think Death Shroud skills are definitely useful regardless of spec, but they aren’t particularly optimal – I think that’s the key. They could be better and they could be much more useful for specific builds.

Skoigoth.9238:

Life Siphon. It’s rubbish.

I like that guy, he gets it.

From that comment alone? No he doesn’t. Life Siphon is quite good with values and scaling rather equivalent to another #6 skill.

On everything else? Yeah, he’s spot-on.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

flow.6043:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Life Blast is poor for condition necromancers in the sense that they currently have to waste lots of points in the power line to get Dhuumfire and outside of Dhuumfire, the attack does no damage because they lack power. Power necromancers definitely get more use out of the skills, except for the fear because they don’t take the traits to maximise its duration or damage.

Doom is a valuable interrupt, the fact that power builds don’t do the same damage with it as a condimancer’s Terror-traited fear isn’t that important. Also, power necros usually have 6 points in Spite and not every condi necro has Master or Terror. So the difference in condition duration isn’t necessarily that big.

As for Life Blast, Dhuumfire is not in “the power line” but in Spite: condi duration, Chill of Death, Spiteful Spirit… nothing that a condi necro wouldn’t want to have.
And the damage of LB with a carrion amulet is definitely not nothing. Worse than a power necro of course but still somewhere around 1-2k dmg depending on crits and your target’s armor. Also, Life Blast can be used to remove blindness or aegis before using more impactful skills, among other things…

I should have clarified, I meant that when you obtained Dhuumfire you spend points in Spite which provides +300 Power.

Doom is definitely a powerful interrupt, there’s no denying that. In all honesty though, I don’t know any condition necromancers that don’t take terror.

I believe he said “Master of Terror” (+50% Fear duration). Every condi necro takes Terror.

I never seen someone tear Anet a new kitten in such a critical yet profession manner. We need more people like this from the outside looking in. 10/10 will read again.

Ok, I agree with a lot of the article, necros need a lot of work, but this statement, "Necromancers only use minions when they’re new to the game and anyone who uses them outside of that is trolling or doing it ‘for the laugh’. "

kitten you article author. Seriously, don’t make this kind of incendiary statement. I have mained a minion master since GW1. I am more aware than most of how horrid the current minions are, but to imply my persistence in using them is me having a lack of knowledge, trolling or otherwise not taking my gameplay seriously is immensely insulting.

The fact of the matter is when you get past the many AI issues minions have they do in fact embody the attrition playstyle of necromancer better than most builds. Even with their AI issues they’re still meatshields and passive dps and provide far more in protracted fights than many other necromancer skills.

Again, I agree with a lot of this article and appreciate the intent of raising awareness of the issues we have but this ignorant attitude you have presented towards minions will only serve to drive others away from the playstyle that simply needs AI improvements to be more user friendly and universally useful.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Skoigoth.9238:

Life Siphon. It’s rubbish.

I like that guy, he gets it.

From that comment alone? No he doesn’t. Life Siphon is quite good with values and scaling rather equivalent to another #6 skill.

On everything else? Yeah, he’s spot-on.

Scaling aside, I think Life Siphon is poor because unlike the heal that a Guardian’s Meditation provides, it’s a staggered gain. It has a short range, the heal is gradual and it has a long (ish) cast time. Where a Meditation heal provides 2.3k healing instantly, Life Siphon is much slower and easily interrupted. Admittedly it doesn’t have a 16 to 39 second cooldown, but it also doesn’t remove 2 conditions and grant fury.

I’d like to see Life Siphone not only siphon more, but be an instant spike of health gain.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Skoigoth.9238:

Life Siphon. It’s rubbish.

I like that guy, he gets it.

From that comment alone? No he doesn’t. Life Siphon is quite good with values and scaling rather equivalent to another #6 skill.

On everything else? Yeah, he’s spot-on.

Scaling aside, I think Life Siphon is poor because unlike the heal that a Guardian’s Meditation provides, it’s a staggered gain. It has a short range, the heal is gradual and it has a long (ish) cast time. Where a Meditation heal provides 2.3k healing instantly, Life Siphon is much slower and easily interrupted. Admittedly it doesn’t have a 16 to 39 second cooldown, but it also doesn’t remove 2 conditions and grant fury.

I’d like to see Life Siphone not only siphon more, but be an instant spike of health gain.

While understandable, compare to the fact Life Siphon easily hits 4k healing, does damage on its own (and is great for proccing on hit/crit effects), and is on a shorter cooldown while not taking a utility slot.

A shorter cast time can be argued for, but really, the skill is quite good as-is.

Riot Inducer.8964:

Ok, I agree with a lot of the article, necros need a lot of work, but this statement, "Necromancers only use minions when they’re new to the game and anyone who uses them outside of that is trolling or doing it ‘for the laugh’. "

kitten you article author. Seriously, don’t make this kind of incendiary statement. I have mained a minion master since GW1. I am more aware than most of how horrid the current minions are, but to imply my persistence in using them is me having a lack of knowledge, trolling or otherwise not taking my gameplay seriously is immensely insulting.

The fact of the matter is when you get past the many AI issues minions have they do in fact embody the attrition playstyle of necromancer better than most builds. Even with their AI issues they’re still meatshields and passive dps and provide far more in protracted fights than many other necromancer skills.

Again, I agree with a lot of this article and appreciate the intent of raising awareness of the issues we have but this ignorant attitude you have presented towards minions will only serve to drive others away from the playstyle that simply needs AI improvements to be more user friendly and universally useful.

No one is suggesting you can’t have fun with minions, but no one serious about WvW, sPvP or PvE would ever play them. They die near instantly in dungeons, they have terrible pathing and reactions and their damage is really poor. Their trait lines aren’t great either :-\

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Skoigoth.9238:

Life Siphon. It’s rubbish.

I like that guy, he gets it.

From that comment alone? No he doesn’t. Life Siphon is quite good with values and scaling rather equivalent to another #6 skill.

On everything else? Yeah, he’s spot-on.

Scaling aside, I think Life Siphon is poor because unlike the heal that a Guardian’s Meditation provides, it’s a staggered gain. It has a short range, the heal is gradual and it has a long (ish) cast time. Where a Meditation heal provides 2.3k healing instantly, Life Siphon is much slower and easily interrupted. Admittedly it doesn’t have a 16 to 39 second cooldown, but it also doesn’t remove 2 conditions and grant fury.

I’d like to see Life Siphone not only siphon more, but be an instant spike of health gain.

While understandable, compare to the fact Life Siphon easily hits 4k healing, does damage on its own (and is great for proccing on hit/crit effects), and is on a shorter cooldown while not taking a utility slot.

A shorter cast time can be argued for, but really, the skill is quite good as-is.

It’d be really great if Life Siphon was just a quicker skill. All the Dagger main hand skills feel quite slow to me.

Riot Inducer.8964:

Ok, I agree with a lot of the article, necros need a lot of work, but this statement, "Necromancers only use minions when they’re new to the game and anyone who uses them outside of that is trolling or doing it ‘for the laugh’. "

kitten you article author. Seriously, don’t make this kind of incendiary statement. I have mained a minion master since GW1. I am more aware than most of how horrid the current minions are, but to imply my persistence in using them is me having a lack of knowledge, trolling or otherwise not taking my gameplay seriously is immensely insulting.

The fact of the matter is when you get past the many AI issues minions have they do in fact embody the attrition playstyle of necromancer better than most builds. Even with their AI issues they’re still meatshields and passive dps and provide far more in protracted fights than many other necromancer skills.

Again, I agree with a lot of this article and appreciate the intent of raising awareness of the issues we have but this ignorant attitude you have presented towards minions will only serve to drive others away from the playstyle that simply needs AI improvements to be more user friendly and universally useful.

Also, one thing to point out.

It’s not that all minions are trash. Those focused around damage and MM are quite clunky, indeed.

But out of two utility-based ones (Blood Fiend included), one is constantly being used in PvP and sometimes in WvW. I even run it in PvE sometimes for “oh kitten” escapes. It’s Flesh Wurm.
It’s greatest strenght is that it doesn’t move (no room for AI failure here!), you don’t use it for damage for real and just for utility, though.

@Riot, I think you might be reading into it a little too much, as an MM main myself. I think his point is simply that you have to enjoy MM a LOT for it to be considered, where across the board it is incredibly sub-optimal. So maybe thats sort of how “for the laughs” comes in. It’s enjoyable, but not great.

Life siphon would be great if sped up and 900 range. In PVP it’s most frequent use is pressure when out of range, if it could reach a tad bit further it’d be incredibly useful.

I really liked the article. I think it resonated with a lot of necromancer problems that have just stagnated over the years without really ever being solved.

I got in touch with one of the moderators on the subreddit. The post wasn’t deleted, just removed from the front page. The moderator removed it “because of the clickbait title”.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Skoigoth.9238:

Life Siphon. It’s rubbish.

I like that guy, he gets it.

From that comment alone? No he doesn’t. Life Siphon is quite good with values and scaling rather equivalent to another #6 skill.

On everything else? Yeah, he’s spot-on.

What I meant is, I like this rather elaborate way of expressing issues he has with certain aspects of the Necromancer skill-set.

Also, I´m quite fond of cucumbers, y´know?