Guild Wars 2

I’ve promised allot of people who keep up with my WvW builds that I would make a thread about my build and answer and questions people might have on it so here it is!

My build is based on a standard requirement for a Wellomancer build except I’ve based my entire build around the Cavalier’s ascended trinkets. This particular style puts out allot of damage with higher toughness to make up for the drop in vitality.

The concept is to maximize AoE damage whilst maintaining a high level of survivability as expected. With 50% critical chance the build benefits heavily from Vampiric, Vampiric Precision and Sigils of Blood to provide routine healing and the Melandru + Lemongrass combo to null out most of the condition damage.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBHhZakRLcvSTTjfPBIz46nnU494xMGeZA-jUCBoiCiEGBiIAMBqIaslRFRjVbDTFjIq2cORG0DrWKAmEGB-w

When tweaking the build I stick to the following set of rules:

• 2700 or more attack.
• 2700 or more armour.
• 50% critical chance.
• 50% or more critical damage.

With this being the minimum requirement for skills, traits and armours:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBHhZYkRvSTTjfPBIV46JFAMekihXG-jkwAEmAVGLiGbMAMB-w
(Choosing Bloodthirst if below 40% critical chance or Vampiric Precision if above).

Pros of the build:

• Deals heavy AoE damage regularly.
• Heals allot more health over time then a standard build.
• Can front-line Plague tank much longer then a standard build.
• Can solo supply camps.

Cons of the build:

• Extremely expensive to put together.
• Terrible at solo fighting.
• Riskier playing then a standard build for inexperienced players, a death could mean a 40-man enemy rally.

Happy to answer any and all questions on this build, any build or WvW in general.

Why Chilling Darkness?

Also, I wouldn’t go that deep into the Curses traitline, I’d rather go into the Spite traitline for Close to Death, which is an huge damage boost paired with the increased power of the traitline.

Chilling Darkness provides 1 second chills when Plaguing to 5 people every second. Although it seems small it provides massive disruption to backline cooldowns and is a vital trait for teamfighting in WvW.

You cant simply put 30 points in Spite for what seems like a power boost by Close to Death. The amount of survivability you would give up for this requirement based trait is not worth the trade by itself. You would have to give up some vital traits that make a Wellomancer build work as-well.

Good idea for a build, however Vampirism is very gimmicky if you do not go all out on it. I’d take the 20 points from Vampirism, and put it in Soul Reaping, or Spite. Especially if you want to use Axe for your damage, then go for Axe Mastery. Or if you want more survivability, go for Soul Marks in Reaping.

Warhorn doesn’t synergize well with Axe. Infact, Warhorn only synergizes with Dagger. Sigil of Accuracy is unnecessary with Furious Demise, and a base 45% crit chance.

Hope this helps.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Good idea for a build, however Vampirism is very gimmicky if you do not go all out on it. I’d take the 20 points from Vampirism, and put it in Soul Reaping, or Spite. Especially if you want to use Axe for your damage, then go for Axe Mastery. Or if you want more survivability, go for Soul Marks in Reaping.

Warhorn doesn’t synergize well with Axe. Infact, Warhorn only synergizes with Dagger. Sigil of Accuracy is unnecessary with Furious Demise, and a base 45% crit chance.

Hope this helps.

I don’t know were to start with this post. Lets see… I’ll start off with a quote to Vampiric by you:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Ascii.9726:

Vampiric now scales with power.

6 points.

Dear lord have mercy, Vampires are viable and OP.

Next, 20 Points in Blood Magic isn’t for Vampiric, that’s just a minor trait you have to pick up. The points are in there for Ritual Mastery which is a must for a well build. Lets not forget Vampiric and Vampiric Precision are 25 and 42 true damage on any direct damage including siege.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Warhorn doesnt ‘synergize’ with Axe as it does. Warhorn is also in the build because the AoE daze is killer in WvW and Locust Swarm synergizes with plague amazingly.

Axe is not used for damage at all, and Axe mastery would cost too much in trait points to justify. Axe is used for the AoE boon stripping, cripple and 18 seconds of retaliation that (when synergized with warhorn 5 and plague) leaves you crippling, chilling, blinding, poisoning, retaliation damage and 2 lots of Vampiric & Vampiric Precision every second to 5 targets.

Ascii.9726:

Chilling Darkness provides 1 second chills when Plaguing to 5 people every second. Although it seems small it provides massive disruption to backline cooldowns and is a vital trait for teamfighting in WvW.

You cant simply put 30 points in Spite for what seems like a power boost by Close to Death. The amount of survivability you would give up for this requirement based trait is not worth the trade by itself. You would have to give up some vital traits that make a Wellomancer build work as-well.

You don’t give up that much. The points invested into Death Magic are not worth the damage loss, same applies to the points spent into the Curses line.

I’d rather go with something like 30/10/10/20/0.

Doing so, you gain:
- Close to Death
- Increased mark damage
- 200 more power
- 30% more condition duration
- Healing on enemy death

While losing:
- Chill on blindness
- Greater marks (not needed anymore after the untraited size buff)
- 150 toughness
- 15% boon duration (not needed at all)

You can also giving up on Close to Death investing 20 points only into the spite line and go deeper into Blood Magic for Vampiric Rituals.

Ascii.9726:

Next, 20 Points in Blood Magic isn’t for Vampiric, that’s just a minor trait you have to pick up. The points are in there for Ritual Mastery which is a must for a well build.

Ritual mastery is not a must for a Wellbuild. Not anymore.

Ascii.9726:

Lets not forget Vampiric and Vampiric Precision are 25 and 42 true damage on any direct damage including siege.

Lord have mercy, call Arenanet, that damage needs a nerf.

Ascii.9726:

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Warhorn doesnt ‘synergize’ with Axe as it does. Warhorn is also in the build because the AoE daze is killer in WvW and Locust Swarm synergizes with plague amazingly.

You’re telling me that Warhorn synergizes minor aspects of your build, not with axe. Dagger is far superior since Locust Swarm adds to your damage significantly, and aids in stopping opponents from kiting, allowing you to deal significant damage. The Daze is fine. Using Warhorn on Axe simply means you’ll be running up close with Locust Swarm (Why the Focused Rituals then?), as in, close quarters with an Axe… Or you’d be standing back amongst your zerg, contributing nothing with Locust Swarm.

Locust Swarm is unnecessary in Plague Form unless you’re building for a bursty hybrid, speaking of which, why do you even have Plague Form on this?

Ascii.9726:

Axe is not used for damage at all, and Axe mastery would cost too much in trait points to justify. Axe is used for the AoE boon stripping, cripple and 18 seconds of retaliation that (when synergized with warhorn 5 and plague) leaves you crippling, chilling, blinding, poisoning, retaliation damage and 2 lots of Vampiric & Vampiric Precision every second to 5 targets.

So why are you using Axe? None of what you listed is overall impressive, I can do the same thing on my control builds, easier, at that. Your build is obfuscated, and corrupted by too much time in the wonderful world of WvW, where anything is viable and the points don’t matter.

Hell, Focused Rituals is absolutely awful, and literally only good for killing the bad players out of a zerg.

@sorrow Ground targetable wells is a must, it destorys siege placements on walls. You forgot to point out the loss of 150 precision and 2% damage per condition both of which impact this build alot. The 15% boon duration you classed as ‘not needed at all’ pushes Retaliation from axe to 18.5 seconds which almost fully covers the duration of Plague and you also forgot the 150 power from Deadly Strength.

@TheMightyAltroll.3485 Im not sure if you even WvW at all, but Ritual Masteries is needed for a well build. Having one of the strongest AoE skills off CD 7 second sooner and a 30 boon stripping AoE off CD 8 second sooner is massive.

I’m not sure why your contradicting yourself with Vampiric seen as it was you who called it garbage full in or not so stop embarrassing yourself. When plaguing with locust swarm on your healing for up to 670 health per second from just these 2 traits.

The fact you said “why do you even have Plague Form on this?” makes me and every single teamfight Necro laugh in your face. You don’t know what your talking about so stop posting.

With all due respect Altroll (which is none) i posted this thread for the people who follow my builds in WvW and not for advice or tips on it. Ive run this particular build for over 4 months now, Ive been running Wellomancer for over 10 months and Ive been running axe/ warhorn since beta. This isn’t some build I’ve slapped together with 5 mins testing, given a fancy name and labeled “meta” like all your builds.

why do you even have Plague Form on this?

Did he just ask why a necro would have plague form for WvW?

LOL!

Sorry for asking, but are you a youtuber/streamer since you talk about people asking for your build?

If so I would love to watch some www gameplay from you to see how the build works

Well, we all know where this thread is about to go.

focus really is better with axe or you should just go for dagger main imho.

jumping in with locust and switching to plague might get you bags but if that’s really valuable contribution i’d be a little bit sceptic.

sure i can see this build stays alive in wvw bag farming.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Good idea for a build, however Vampirism is very gimmicky if you do not go all out on it. I’d take the 20 points from Vampirism, and put it in Soul Reaping, or Spite. Especially if you want to use Axe for your damage, then go for Axe Mastery. Or if you want more survivability, go for Soul Marks in Reaping.

Warhorn doesn’t synergize well with Axe. Infact, Warhorn only synergizes with Dagger. Sigil of Accuracy is unnecessary with Furious Demise, and a base 45% crit chance.

Hope this helps.

I also use War Horn with my axe and focus with my dagger.

This might be unconventional for some but I feel I get better use of the Vulnerability being spread out. I also use WoS on my bar 90% of the time swapping out other utilities as they are required.

Trying to keep an enemy at a distance in WvW is nearly impossible for a Necro. All melee classes want to get right in my face to burst me down. Axe is great for refilling my Life Force and Locust Swarm and Daze make it so they are slowed down enough for me to pop DS and apply some damage.

If I am running in a dedicated zerg Plague is my Elite of choice and Locust Swarm right before the transform is a sweet combo. When I am just skirmishing and roaming I use Lich form as a personal preference. I am fairly comfortable in Lich Form dodging and moving around effectively despite being a large target.

While there might be a better synergy in using the off hand weapons differently than I do, I am very used to their timing, cool downs, activations speeds, and get very jammed up if I try to use them the other way.

To me this is a matter of preference and I can’t see that synergy thing being so significant that the build or play style is broken because of it.

I dunno. I’d consider myself a “wellomancer”, but I don’t have the well CD trait. I too use WoS and WoC to put the hurt on zergs, but I think 30/10/0/0/30 is a better trait allocation as it’ll give 20% more damage when below 50%, more power, 30% more crit damage and 50% crit chance. I think that’s far more important than taking the well CD trait… I’ll generally do 12-14k damage to a glass cannon player if they stay in for the duration.

You might get to cast your wells again 20% faster, but mine’ll do a buttload more damage, leaving me free to kitten around in lich or plague as appropriate.

It also leaves me free to slot alternate abilities in without feeling I’ve “wasted” trait allocations… the BM tree is awful and in my personal experience does very little to sustain compared to the amount of benefit you’ll get from being a lot deadlier.

S’only my opinion though, if you’re happy rockin 20 BM then you shine on you beautiful diamond!

I used to (in my deathammer build) run 2 wells with no ranged casting – literally hurling my PVT kitten into a zerg, grab retal (back when it was worth it), drop wells and switch to plague.

Rmpz.7031:

Sorry for asking, but are you a youtuber/streamer since you talk about people asking for your build?

If so I would love to watch some www gameplay from you to see how the build works

Yes i do though none within the last month. My channel is here and videos using this build can be found here, here, here and here. I also spoke about Necros in WvW, commanding and other stuff during my But of Corpse Podcast last month.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

I dunno. I’d consider myself a “wellomancer”, but I don’t have the well CD trait. I too use WoS and WoC to put the hurt on zergs, but I think 30/10/0/0/30 is a better trait allocation as it’ll give 20% more damage when below 50%, more power, 30% more crit damage and 50% crit chance. I think that’s far more important than taking the well CD trait… I’ll generally do 12-14k damage to a glass cannon player if they stay in for the duration.

Using Close to Death has crossed my mind more then once but ultimately decided against it for the following reasons;

• Unless the enemy is below 50% life, its a completely useless trait.
• +30% condition duration has little benefits on this build.
• For the 300 power, your losing 250 toughness, 50 precision & 150 power (from Deadly Strength)
• With easy access to Cripple, Chill, Poison, Bleed and Vulnerability you naturally already do 10% from Target the Weak, then throw in ally conditions.
• 5, 15 and 25 traits in Spite are very weak.
• You have to drop one of the (IMO) must have traits for an effective Wellomancer build.

30/10/0/0/30 is moving off Wellomancers by quite alot (and moving into Havoc/ Roaming territory). I should of probably pointed out this build is purely for large scale fights. 30/10/0/0/30 would be dropping alot of survivability for damage when the goal for this build is to balance them.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

S’only my opinion though, if you’re happy rockin 20 BM then you shine on you beautiful diamond!

Having Corruption off cooldown 8 seconds sooner sometimes is the difference between stripping 25 stacks of Might from a Melee train and being hit by it. The 200 Healing Power is bad i know, but the 200 Vitality is very nice for returns in E-Health and now Deathshroud and Vampiric + Vampiric Precision offer much greater returns when your tagging 10 people per second then in solo combat.

To give it abit more light, dropping Suffering and Corruption, using Locust Swarm and then Plaguing (a typical engage rotation) can proc off a maximum of 215 hits (if 5 targets are hit with each skill) which will damage and heal for 9,890 over the 20 seconds (assuming 50% of the hits crit too). This isn’t also factoring in Fury.

Ascii.9726:

@sorrow Ground targetable wells is a must, it destorys siege placements on walls. You forgot to point out the loss of 150 precision and 2% damage per condition both of which impact this build alot. The 15% boon duration you classed as ‘not needed at all’ pushes Retaliation from axe to 18.5 seconds which almost fully covers the duration of Plague and you also forgot the 150 power from Deadly Strength.

You still have the ground target wells. Ground targeting wells is an adept trait now, you can pick it with 10 points into Curses.

The loss of precision is just a loss of 7% critical chance, not a big deal after all.

The damage per condition is still not needed. Since it is not a condition focused build that much, you might want to increase the condition duration instead to counter all the lemongrass and melandru runes. The damage per condition is easily compensated be close to death.

The retaliation with only 10 points into Death Magic is 16.5. The loss does not justify the amount of traitpoints spent.

I did not forgot about the power gain from Deadly Strength. In fact, I’ve listed only 200 power gain from spending 30 points into Spite (anyway, 5% of ~2000 is 100, not 150).

I’m not much of a fan of going deep into Death Magic in a wells build tbh. Other than the 25 points one the minor traits are completely useless and toughness can be sufficiently fine tuned by equipment. So you’re spending 25 points for faster staff skill recharge and +boon duration…Not a great investment imo.

Depending on where you want to go with the build these points might be more useful elsewhere, personally I put them into improving DS as that synergizes well with the power/crit focus the build already has and it can fill the gaps when wells and Plague Form are on cd.

I do agree though that going for Close to Death probably is not worth it either in a wells build and that Chilling Darkness is almost mandatory for heavy Plague users in WvW.

I don’t really have an fusses with the build. I’ve been heavily debating switching to a Power based build for my rabid WvW’ing, and this doesn’t look like a bad place to start. However, I do have a minor question. Is the reason for not having a Sigil of Bloodlust on one of your weapons because of you being a frontline breaker? Or is the 5% critical chance really necessary. If Vampirism really does stack with power, and in addition to the Wells, I’d think 25 stacks over time would be rather valuable. Of course, I understand it could easily be knocked off in a heartbeat by a down.
Yay or Nay?

Lokyate.1387:

However, I do have a minor question. Is the reason for not having a Sigil of Bloodlust on one of your weapons because of you being a frontline breaker?

I’m sure Ascii, like most, has a weapon with Bloodlust on it then swaps to his primary sigil at 25 stacks.

Liquid.9672:

I’m sure Ascii, like most, has a weapon with Bloodlust on it then swaps to his primary sigil at 25 stacks.

…twitch.
Duh. My bad.

Geez, Ascii, why are you getting so defensive when people criticize your builds?

Ascii.9726:

• Unless the enemy is below 50% life, its a completely useless trait.

seems awfully short sighted of you don’t you think?

unless you are a bad necro you take advantage of this skill every single fight, you see to kill anyone you have to first get them below half life?

@sorrow.2364
Both Chilling Darkness and Focused Rituals are required for this build. I’m not sure what you mean by Target the Weak isn’t required because this is not a damage build as this is usually a perm +8% damage boost by itself reaching anything up to 16% (with no requirements like enemies being below 50% life).

@Lokyate.1387 & Liquid.9672
Indeed i have a offhand Warhorn with a bloodlust sigil to stack to 25 .

@Atroll
I’m all for build criticism, but not suggestions by someone who doesn’t play or understand WvW and has no clue about what there saying. I prefer logical questions like Dredlord has put and not random guesses.

@Dredlord.8076
Yes maybe it is a cynical of looking at the trait and im not denying Close to Death is a strong trait, but the tradeoffs are just not worth it. For the 300 power and 20% more damage below 50% you have to lose 8-16% damage from Target the Weak, 250 Toughness, 25% boon duration (which is 3.75 seconds of Retaliation which when Plaguing is massive) and 100 Power anyway.

Heading deep into Spite is moving out of tanky territory and into power builds, which this type of build is not. This is a primary tank build as expected from a Plague Necro but gives up the vitality for precision and critical damage.

FWIW, I’ve found the discussion in this thread very interesting so far, keep it coming.

I’m thinking about trying a wells build in WvW, and this is really helpful.

why not take offhand dagger over warhorn? aoe weakness is pretty good against zergs

also…

Ascii.9726:

• +30% condition duration has little benefits on this build.

…

Ascii.9726:

Axe is used for the AoE boon stripping, cripple and 18 seconds of retaliation that (when synergized with warhorn 5 and plague) leaves you crippling, chilling, blinding, poisoning, retaliation damage and 2 lots of Vampiric & Vampiric Precision every second to 5 targets.

Ascii.9726:

• With easy access to Cripple, Chill, Poison, Bleed and Vulnerability you naturally already do 10% from Target the Weak, then throw in ally conditions.

…
…
…

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Hell, Focused Rituals is absolutely awful, and literally only good for killing the bad players out of a zerg.

lets assume you are correct (which… you arent really; aoe bombing places is ridiculously useful, especially when people stack up and/or wall supression… well of corruption is also amazing for stripping ret/stability off of people without having to stand next to them)… by killing the bad players you’re leaving the good players without meatshields and numbers to hide behind

Oozo.7856:

why do you even have Plague Form on this?

Did he just ask why a necro would have plague form for WvW?

LOL!

it made me chuckle too ;]

You do not need any point in blood magic, the life steal is not needed at all imo, it really all comes down to your positioning and movement and the support of your guild. And I dont think well mastery is needed, running in an organized guild at least, I mean you need to rotate necro wells/plagues (yes plague is a must in wvw) so you dont waste all your CDs on your 1st push etc. The well cooldowns are fine as they are without the trait.

And spectral armor is a lot better than spectral walk imo, protection is amazing along with the 8% life force per sec. I run 30 in soul reaping for the DS cdr and stability so that covers me for the survivability part (last gasp) and much, much needed stability for certain situations.

Well of corruption is a must, tho I think for something more organized like gvg I think well of suffering/stunbreaker need to be swapped out for well of darkness cuz blind is amazing.

I got 0/20/20/0/30 with about 1650 toughness, 2k+ power, 40% crit chance, 60% crit dmg. I dont see why its needed to give up damage for so much toughness if you are ranged, especially a necro. Also backed up by a melee train you should easily tank the enemy zerg with plague.

Basically I think blood magic is pretty much useless compared to the awesome damage and tankyness increase from soul reaping – stability+last gasp+ds cdr.

Target the weak can be good (can lose its effect because of the insanse condi removal meta) but still I value stability way more cuz 1 knock back/stun when going through a chokepoint/knocked off a wall or whatever, and guess what, you are useless. Neither can you rely on the guardians for stability especially if you are ranged stability on demand is a must in my book.

Ascii.9726:

@sorrow.2364
Both Chilling Darkness and Focused Rituals are required for this build. I’m not sure what you mean by Target the Weak isn’t required because this is not a damage build as this is usually a perm +8% damage boost by itself reaching anything up to 16% (with no requirements like enemies being below 50% life).

Chilling Darkness is not worth picking at all.
It forces you to go 10 points deeper into the Curses traitline to have just a single skill of your Elite, which you have access to for only 20 seconds every 3 minutes, working slightly better than it does.
That’s just my opinion, obviously.

As I said, spending 30 points into spite is much more worthy. You not only get 200 extra power (which is approx 20% damage boost), but you get 30% extra condition duration and 20% more damage when your enemy is under 50% health.

That means that you have 20% unconditional damage boost plus extra 20% damage boost when your enemy is under 50% HP. Spending points for target the weak, you have only 8% conditional damage boost which caps at 16% which is still less than the unconditional damage boost you get traiting into Spite.

@Linguistically Inept.6583
2 second AoE daze is pretty strong and Locust Swarm syncs amazingly with Plague effectively doubling up on damage, life siphons, tagging people and cripples keeping people in the Plague in the first place.

Dagger isn’t bad as an offhand, but Dagger 4 has very limited use with -65% condition duration and Dagger 5 is quite a slow AoE to land. TBH i think offhand is purely player choice and not a must like axe is, i just prefer it because Locust Swarm is pure passive damage so you can DS, plague ect and still gain its effects and benefits (like 50 procs of Vampiric and Vampiric Precision).

+30% condition duration is quite useless (IMO) in WvW large scale in general because of the AoE cleanses and water field busts most zergs run in the current meta. All of Necros disruptive conditions are in very small bursts (mainly 1-2 seconds with Plague and Locust Swarm) making extending them quite pointless and cleansing them quite hard.

@Aphix.9846
Having Well of Corruption off 8 seconds sooner is huge considering it could be the difference between stripping a 25 might stacked melee train and being hit by it and being a more damage heavy build compared to typical Wellomancers who run Well of Darkness, Suffering off 7 seconds sooner begins to add up as the fight progresses. Life siphoning may seem small, but when your consistently tagging 5 people every second or sooner (staff nuking) the 25 & 42 life & damage really adds up.

Spectral Walk is purely a personal choice, infact I’ve messed with Armour too. There are some things ill argue are a must have (such as corruption and chilling darkness) but Walk us purely optional. Amour is indeed far superior for LF boosting (though that’s usually never an issue once the snowball effect begins to roll out) but i prefer walk for the perm swiftness with horn and duking abilities which has saved my life alot.

Though if i was to alter my build from 0/25/25/20/0 i think Soul Reaping would be the tree i head into (especially since the doubling of DS-HP) i would use something along the lines of 0/25/10/20/15 an use Walk for the LF stacking with traited armour and swapping to -15% DS CD when killing siege on walls.

I wont lie though given the recent tweaks to DS-HP and spectral armour i have been attempting points in this to see if the loss of toughness is made up in DS-health. 15% boon duration for 15% damage is what im working on atm, 15% longer 25 might stacks or Retaliation in Plague is difficult to convert to numbers to compare vs. 15% damage.

And thank you, you’ve probably had the most constrictive criticism so far rather then people who have never been in WvW blindly suggesting stuff.

@sorrow.2364
Chilling Darkness is worth it and there’s no question about it. It disrupts enemy movement by a huge amount, messes with skill rotations and cooldowns and keeps them in the Plague in the first place.

I’m not sure were your drawing your GvG wvw experience from, but 250 toughness and 25% boon duration for 200 power is not worth the trade in WvW. Let me put it another way, you cant deal damage if your dead and if you make bad trades like that you will be dead.

Ascii.9726:

@sorrow.2364
Chilling Darkness is worth it and there’s no question about it. It disrupts enemy movement by a huge amount, messes with skill rotations and cooldowns and keeps them in the Plague in the first place.

I’m not sure were your drawing your GvG wvw experience from, but 250 toughness and 25% boon duration for 200 power is not worth the trade in WvW. Let me put it another way, you cant deal damage if your dead and if you make bad trades like that you will be dead.

So does the Plague of Pestilence. It also mess the enemy endurance regen and, most important, you don’t need a trait to keep your enemy into the plague.

It doesn’t mess with skill rotation that much. To effectively do some harm to your enemy you have to keep them chilled for the whole duration, since Chill effects works only when the condition is on the enemy. Point is that in most cases, you manage to keep chill up for nothing more than a few seconds, since it affects only 5 enemies in its radius and nobody knows how those enemies are selected.

Also, 30 points into Spite allows you to stack higher duration of weakness, poison and cripple on your enemies. That means that you’re capable to make those conditions last even after plague is finished or they manage to get out of range (which is actually harder since the decreased endurance regen).

It’s not 250 toughness loss. It is just 150 toughness loss and 15% boon duration (which retaliation only benefits from it). Those 150 points into toughness does not make you survive, neither the 15% boon duration, neither the traits you are losing into the Death Magic traitline.

sorrow.2364:

So does the Plague of Pestilence. It also mess the enemy endurance regen and, most important, you don’t need a trait to keep your enemy into the plague.

So your saying you would not use Plague of Darkness when in Plague…? You would take -50% damage vs. -100% damage by blinding the attack.

I think this alone covers your WvW experience, which is none.

Ascii.9726:

So your saying you would not use Plague of Darkness when in Plague…? You would take -50% damage vs. -100% damage by blinding the attack.

I think this alone covers your WvW experience, which is none.

Please, don’t make assumption based on nothing.
I’m just evaluating the pros and cons of both the options.
Weakness after the buff is a great condition and Plague of Darkness is no more a must go in every situations.

The simple fact that you have to invest 10 extra traitpoints to do something that Plague of Pestilence do without any investment (not as good, of course) is something you have to take into consideration. There is no need to bash your interlocutor if he points this out.

You’re not taking -100% damage. You make a single attack miss every second. If your enemy makes more than one attack in a second, the second one hits without any reduction.

Also, if you have enough condition duration, weakness lasts even when the plague is finished (about 16-18s if you hit them enough), which is another thing you have to take into consideration.

Chill > Cripple.
Blind >= Weakness.
Shout guardians, warriors & water fields > long condition durations.

Your evaluations are based (i assume) on your opinions and not experience unless you can tell me otherwise. Simple fact is if your doing anything but blinding when you front-line dive an enemy backline you will be ripped to pieces and you will end up rallying the enemy zerg and cost your server the fight.

Remember that, this isn’t sPvP were your death rallies 1 maybe 2 people and you lose a point Your death in WvW could rally the 20+ people you tagged and downed and Necromancers tag more enemies then any other class in WvW.

You also seem to be viewing this from a solo and not a teamfight point of view, blind & chill is invaluable for your melee train to survive, if they die you die. Blinding 100 attacks straight out has much more of an impact then reducing there damage for slightly longer duration, any conditions/ stuns that would of been inflicted are also blinded remember.

Your evaluations and mine differ, i feel the situational damage spike at the cost of survivability and utility is too much to give up, you don’t. End of.

Chilling Darkness isn’t only for Plague, it’s also for Well of Darkness and (If you have it equipped) Deathly Swarm. In a push, that’s 13 people blinded+slowed and forced to either blow their heal in the wake of increased pressure, use their endurance or already rolled. Especially when you consider the hectic nature of two zergs colliding. Add in another necromancer or two, and that can be half of a zerg temporarily shut down. Of course this is all in preferable conditions and space, but still.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s -necessary- for any build, but for me, it absolutely is.

Ascii.9726:

Chill > Cripple.
Blind >= Weakness.
Shout guardians, warriors & water fields > long condition durations.

Your evaluations are based (i assume) on your opinions and not experience unless you can tell me otherwise. Simple fact is if your doing anything but blinding when you front-line dive an enemy backline you will be ripped to pieces and you will end up rallying the enemy zerg and cost your server the fight.

Remember that, this isn’t sPvP were your death rallies 1 maybe 2 people and you lose a point Your death in WvW could rally the 20+ people you tagged and downed and Necromancers tag more enemies then any other class in WvW.

You also seem to be viewing this from a solo and not a teamfight point of view, blind & chill is invaluable for your melee train to survive, if they die you die. Blinding 100 attacks straight out has much more of an impact then reducing there damage for slightly longer duration, any conditions/ stuns that would of been inflicted are also blinded remember.

Your evaluations and mine differ, i feel the situational damage spike at the cost of survivability and utility is too much to give up, you don’t. End of.

You are considering your opinion as invaluable truth while mine stays as, well, just an opinion.
That is not the right mindset to start a constructive discussion about your build.

If you claim yourself to be a sort of prophet of WvWvW Necromancers and nobody can question you, then specify it in the OP so everybody will refrain to make any kind of constructive criticism to your build as you want.

Sorry if I tried to start a discussion trying to improve your build.

You evaluated the pros of your build, with no cons and the cons of my build, with no pros. This is not a discussion or debate its a biased opinion.

And yes, i claim to be a prophet of WvW compared to you. I’ve provided builds, videos and experience quotes, you’ve provided a negative criticism that nothing but your point of view is correct with nothing to back it up.

Ascii.9726:

You evaluated the pros of your build, with no cons and the cons of my build, with no pros. This is not a discussion or debate its a biased opinion.

And yes, i claim to be a prophet of WvW compared to you. I’ve provided builds, videos and experience quotes, you’ve provided a negative criticism that nothing but your point of view is correct with nothing to back it up.

…
hes saying its an alternative that doesnt require a trait to keep enemies in your plague, i do not see how you dont understand that

The simple fact that you have to invest 10 extra traitpoints to do something that Plague of Pestilence do without any investment (not as good, of course) is something you have to take into consideration.

god theres so many toxic players in the necro community

First of all, thanks for sharing your build.

I have 2 questions for you:

1- I remember you were using Banshee’s Wail but i guess you decided Deadly Strength is better. Am i right ? And i realized when you take Banshee’s Wail, tooltip doesn’t change for Wail of Doom. Is is a bug ?

2- And you were using Berly Orb’s instead of Melandru Runes. I see the logic behind Melandru but is it really necessary? What happens if i keep running with Berly Orb’s for more power, vitality and crit damage ?

I guess i asked more than 2 questions
It’s always good to get some data from an experienced www player.

See you.

Ascii.9726:

You evaluated the pros of your build, with no cons and the cons of my build, with no pros. This is not a discussion or debate its a biased opinion.

And yes, i claim to be a prophet of WvW compared to you. I’ve provided builds, videos and experience quotes, you’ve provided a negative criticism that nothing but your point of view is correct with nothing to back it up.

In the second post in this topic I’ve pointed out the advantages and disadvantages of both builds:

Doing so, you gain:
- Close to Death
- Increased mark damage
- 200 more power
- 30% more condition duration
- Healing on enemy death
While losing:
- Chill on blindness
- Greater marks (not needed anymore after the untraited size buff)
- 150 toughness
- 15% boon duration (not needed at all)

I don’t know how you can say that I did pointed out only the advantages of my version and the disadvantages of your version, but I guess that the real issue is here:

And yes, i claim to be a prophet of WvW compared to you.

There’s nothing to discuss if you don’t even take into consideration or think about what I say.

@Linguistically Inept.6583
I knew what me meant (crippling would keep someone in plague and cancel out the need for chills) however im just trying to say that when plaguing, you have to be blinding. Anything other is a hindrance for your team and cost you dearly. Chilling has many other benefits apart from slowing there movement and that’s why its traited.

@Rodyan.9241
The build can be changed to 0/30/20/20/0 taking Banshee’s Wail and Sigil of Paralyzation for 4 second Dazes but i ultimately decided not to continue as i preferred the slight boost in power and toughness. Don’t get me wrong both its a very strong build and i wouldn’t think twice to change back to it if the situation calls for it! Purely player preference.

Both Banshees Wail and the Sigil wont change the Daze duration on the tooltip, its a bug.

Correct i was using Beryl/ Ruby orbs but changed to Melandru last month due to the massive influx of Necromancers after there buffs. Having been playing with the full -65% condition duration since then I’ve actually been kicking myself for not using them earlier. The reduction really takes the pressure of stacking vitality and keeps Plague going that much longer.

I would recommend swapping to Melandrus, but the raw damage from Beryls/ Rubies is equally as good as long as you can survive melee train engagements!

@sorrow.2364
You missed out big fundamentals such as Target the Weak, the Precision (seen as this is a high critical damage build) Condition damage and your lack of experience makes you think stuff like Chilling Darkness is not important.

I’ve thought about what you said and told you why IMO it would not work, take it or leave it but i was not looking for advice on my build when i started this thread. I was looking to give advice for people who use similar builds and take questions on it.

sorrow.2364:

Ascii.9726:

And yes, i claim to be a prophet of WvW compared to you.

There’s nothing to discuss if you don’t even take into consideration or think about what I say.

Ascii really is one of the most experienced wvw necro players. There’s no doubt in my mind that his build is exactly what it needs to be for the purposes of his playstyle.

Btw check out the BoC Podcast with Ascii, in case you havn’t already…

I think its safe to say flow touched on an important thing were all overlooking, my playstyle.

I tend favor survivability over damage because i know if i die and rally an enemy server i would never hear the end of it from my guild (the dreaded words we all don’t want to hear called from your guild leader, “more PTV”).

This was why i also posted what i would consider a ‘bare minimum’ for the build to still be effective and for people to play on.

Ascii.9726:

@sorrow.2364
You missed out big fundamentals such as Target the Weak, the Precision (seen as this is a high critical damage build) Condition damage and your lack of experience makes you think stuff like Chilling Darkness is not important.

I’ve thought about what you said and told you why IMO it would not work, take it or leave it but i was not looking for advice on my build when i started this thread. I was looking to give advice for people who use similar builds and take questions on it.

I did not missed Target the Weak. I’ve just considered the simple fact that the increased conditional damage output is compensated by the increased power, which is an unconditional damage boost.

I’ve mentioned the precision loss too, but it looks like you missed that too:

The loss of precision is just a loss of 7% critical chance, not a big deal after all.

In my 3rd post in this topic.

I explicitly said that condition damage is not important in a non condition damage build, exactly right after where I said that 7% critical chance is not that much.

Then you started making assumption on my hypothetic lack of experience, just because my opinion differs from yours.

As I said before, if you don’t like having any opinion about your build, say that in the OP. Since it is a discussion forum, people, you know, tend to discuss, unless you explicitly say that you don’t like opinions and discussions about your build.

Your opinions are dearly noted, and disregarded. Incase you cant read i pointed out what this thread was started for, here is it again;

“I’ve promised allot of people who keep up with my WvW builds that I would make a thread about my build and answer and questions people might have on it so here it is!”

Nowere did it say i was looking for advice on my build and especially by someone whose theorycrafting and most probably haven’t even used there ideas in live combat GvG.

Not sure but I am guessing the situations on NA and EU are different and depends on the server rank/match ups you usually get etc.
I started off with a full PTV set in wvw ages ago and kept playing and playing and adjusting my build/gear switching some pieces for zerker/cavalier etc and right now Im pretty safe with ~1.7k toughness and 22k hp.
I think you just gotta play the meta and see what works for you, playing on EU in Piken/deso server where its mostly guilds roaming around and a few pug blobs here and there (but they usually get rolled over without much trouble) you clearly see how much defensive stats you can sacrifice for more damage the more you play and experiment.

If thats what he finds works for him best with the gear stats and traits then whatever, no point really argueing. You shouldnt just copy his build imo, you maybe get a few new ideas etc and make your own depending on your preference and what is your role in the guild and what tier you play in, is it 60+ pug blobs (where for example restoration sigil+omnomberry compote food is awesome) or is it ~20 man groups roaming or even GvG where the build/food/sigils are sometimes completely different to what they are in just wvw.

Ascii.9726:

Your opinions are dearly noted, and disregarded. Incase you cant read i pointed out what this thread was started for, here is it again;

“I’ve promised allot of people who keep up with my WvW builds that I would make a thread about my build and answer and questions people might have on it so here it is!”

Nowere did it say i was looking for advice on my build and especially by someone whose theorycrafting and most probably haven’t even used there ideas in live combat GvG.

I’ve proposed an alternative and clearly listed out pros and cons of both the alternatives. What you did is just ignoring everything I wrote and dismiss my opinion and claiming me to be an inexperienced player.

What I did is called constructive feedback, which is something you should have expected when you opened this topic. What you did is called arrogance and boasting.

I never claimed to be better than you, neither I said you should change the build according what I say. I’m just trying to discuss about alternatives and what I found effective in my experience.

This is a discussion forum, as I previously stated. I come here to discuss, share my opinions, read other’s opinion and gather informations. You should do that in a discussion forum too, otherwise you can still create your asciinecromancer.net website or a youtube video with disabled comments and share all the builds you want without everyone else annoying you with their “inexperienced” opinions.

There is nothing more to discuss, its up to others if they want to run 30 point Spite for a Well build or not but im simply saying it will not work in a GvG situation because the trade-offs will get you killed more then you kill.

I’m basing my opinions on my experience in WvW, I’ve been playing Wellomancer in WvW for over 10 months (the majority of that T1). You have yet to say anything about your experiences (both in GvG WvW in general and with a 30 point spite GvG build if you have even used such a build) because currently it just looks like your theorycrafting a build with nothing to back it up.

Ascii.9726:

I’m basing my opinions on my experience in WvW, I’ve been playing Wellomancer in WvW for over 10 months (the majority of that T1). You have yet to say anything about your experiences (both in GvG WvW in general and with a 30 point spite GvG build if you have even used such a build) because currently it just looks like your theorycrafting a build with nothing to back it up.

So it is safe to assume that my opinion is worth nothing and I’m completely inexperienced?

Theorycrafting is based on numbers and logical considerations and I’ve got my experience too, if you’re wondering. “My experience” alone is valid as much as ethic in a trial.

Theorycrafting is also based alot on guessing as there not put into practice. I never said your opinion is worth nothing, just to me.

Nothing wrongs with theorycrafting either, just look at Altroll he theorycrafts alot. Until there proven effective thats all they are, theories, guesses at what you think will work.

When you prove to me 30 point Spite Wellomancers work and don’t get your team killed through countless enemy rallies because of your lack of defense then ill take your opinion as something other then theorycrafting guesswork.

Ascii.9726:

Theorycrafting is also based alot on guessing as there not put into practice. I never said your opinion is worth nothing, just to me.

Nothing wrongs with theorycrafting either, just look at Altroll he theorycrafts alot. Until there proven effective thats all they are, theories, guesses at what you think will work.

When you prove to me 30 point Spite Wellomancers work and don’t get your team killed through countless enemy rallies because of your lack of defense then ill take your opinion as something other then theorycrafting guesswork.

I think you should “update” your experience.

The build you ran has been tested months ago, you don’t need anymore those 150 extra toughness you are claiming to be vital, since Necromancer got an huge buff into Death Shroud resilience. Neither Plague of Darkness is a must go anymore as it was prior the Weakness buff.

I play this build at least 6 hours everyday in T1 WvW both commanding and following, im in the highest ranked NA GvG guild fighting some of the best guilds in the game.

Maybe you shouldn’t be questioning my experiences and more informing us of yours which you still haven’t done.